Nova - Becoming Human

UnrepentantSinner · 1st November 2009, 04:10 AM

On Tuesday 3 Nov, PBS will start airing a three part Nova series on human evolution called "Becoming Human". Here's a link to a preview.
http://video.pbs.org/video/1300385165/

madurobob · 1st November 2009, 06:06 AM

Yay - finally something interesting on Nova. The video failed to launch when I clicked the link, but it looks like the key plot point in pt 1 is that dramatic climate swings was the key driving factor in early human evolution. Should be interesting. I'll be there.

Skeptic Ginger · 1st November 2009, 11:09 PM

Try it again, Madurobob. It worked for me.

I'll have to look for a repeat, I'll be out giving flu shots Tues evening. It looks good.

madurobob · 2nd November 2009, 06:02 AM

I cleared my list of blocked/allowed cookies and the video launched just fine. One of those cookies must identify platform/browser for the video.

So, yeah, they video says this is based on a ""radical new theory" of a necessity to "adapt or die" due to a series of cataclysmic climate shifts. It does sound interesting... but I suspect they're using a bit of poetic license in calling it a "radical new theory".

Whiplash · 2nd November 2009, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

Try it again, Madurobob. It worked for me.

I'll have to look for a repeat, I'll be out giving flu shots Tues evening. It looks good.

Proof you are an evil NWO henchman or co-conspirator. I just knew it!

Eos of the Eons · 2nd November 2009, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

Try it again, Madurobob. It worked for me.

I'll have to look for a repeat, I'll be out giving flu shots Tues evening. It looks good.

How much can I pay ya to get both H1N1 and seasonal shots? I'm not entirely sure which one I got... probably H1N1 considering it is the main strain right now, but I wanna make my chances of getting sick again for another year very very very small! In my area, they are only vaccinating high risk groups right now, and people like me must prove they have an underlying illness before they can get it!

Beady · 3rd November 2009, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons

How much can I pay ya to get both H1N1 and seasonal shots? I'm not entirely sure which one I got...

Shot? Or flu? If you got the shot, it's probably seasonal; I've got asthsma, and I'm pretty far down the list. I did get a seasonal shot.

If you've got the flu, it's probably N1H1. That seems to be the default diagnosis, probably since they (the GP's office) can't really tell once you've got symptoms.

Hokulele · 3rd November 2009, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner

On Tuesday 3 Nov, PBS will start airing a three part Nova series on human evolution called "Becoming Human".

Just watched the show. Definitely some food for thought.

madurobob · 4th November 2009, 07:11 AM

So, the "radical idea" is that rather than a quick and steady increase in brain size after coming out of the trees and becoming bipedal, our ancestral apes' brain size flat-lined for millions of years. After a nearly four million years of bipedal apes, though, climate changes became quicker and more severe, favoring those with better survival skills; favoring larger brains. Its at this point that we begin to see a quick and steady increase in brain size.

Certainly interesting.

One thing I hadn't really ever considered was H. Habilis. Meat apparently became an increasingly important part of our ancestor's diets and H. Habilis was the first to make tools; using the tools to butcher animals and cut bones for the marrow. They mentioned finding cut bones of antelope and even hippo. But, H. Habilis was only three feet tall! Were these 3 foot tall apes, armed with just chunks of sharpened flint, really hunting and killing hippos for meat? Amazing.

Beady · 4th November 2009, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by madurobob

Were these 3 foot tall apes, armed with just chunks of sharpened flint, really hunting and killing hippos for meat? Amazing.

If the Inuit could hunt whales from kayaks, armed only with stone-headed harpoons...

Hokulele · 4th November 2009, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by madurobob

One thing I hadn't really ever considered was H. Habilis. Meat apparently became an increasingly important part of our ancestor's diets and H. Habilis was the first to make tools; using the tools to butcher animals and cut bones for the marrow. They mentioned finding cut bones of antelope and even hippo. But, H. Habilis was only three feet tall! Were these 3 foot tall apes, armed with just chunks of sharpened flint, really hunting and killing hippos for meat? Amazing.

And butchering doesn't always imply hunting/killing. It wouldn't surprise me if mankind's ancestors were scavenger/gatherers as often as hunter/gatherers.

madurobob · 4th November 2009, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Beady

If the Inuit could hunt whales from kayaks, armed only with stone-headed harpoons...

True - another amazing feat. But, at least the Inuit had specialized tools and language. And that had to be a fun conversation the first time one suggested to his buds they jump in a tiny boat and attack a huge whale. Sort of like the equivalent of the modern day "hey y'all, watch this!"

Originally Posted by Hokulele

And butchering doesn't always imply hunting/killing. It wouldn't surprise me if mankind's ancestors were scavenger/gatherers as often as hunter/gatherers.

Yeah, the show was silent on that and I assumed at least the mentioned hippo was scavenged. But, I had nothing to base that assumption on other than my brilliant assessment that "hippos are really big".

UnrepentantSinner · 5th November 2009, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by madurobob

One thing I hadn't really ever considered was H. Habilis. Meat apparently became an increasingly important part of our ancestor's diets and H. Habilis was the first to make tools; using the tools to butcher animals and cut bones for the marrow. They mentioned finding cut bones of antelope and even hippo. But, H. Habilis was only three feet tall! Were these 3 foot tall apes, armed with just chunks of sharpened flint, really hunting and killing hippos for meat? Amazing.

This got me to thinking about the technology difference between Neanderthals and Sapiens. Both a thrusting spear and a thrown spear (or one hurled with an atlatl) will kill a large animal. The distance weapons make it less likely that dinner will turn the table on the hunters though.

shadron · 5th November 2009, 01:38 AM

Something weird happened. I went and watched what I thought was this video last night. It is definitely related; many short cuts are the same (the making of a tool; some of the pictures of modern humans, like the couple with the darker colored man and the pale woman and the woman with the baby, some of the rotoscoped stuff like the three H. erectus hunters running scene), but the main thrust of the show was on Turkana Boy, a Homo erectus/ergaster fossil from 1.5 MYA. They had a scene in which they showed actors in blue body suits creating the erectus running. After going back and looking at the episode y'all are referring to, I think I must have caught some error in the net and saw one of the two later parts of the series that haven't been officially released yet. It was more centered on the loss of hair and the unique way in which human hunters can run almost any other animal into the ground. That episode didn't much mention climate change.

It seems to me a little too bad that they didn't wait on producing this series until the data on Ardi was released, and added into the mix. For one, they emphasized that Ardi lived in a forest, not in a savannah, as was supposed to have been a precondition for bipedality.

As for the hippos, they would, like any hunter, be going after the young, the old and the lame animals first. A bull hippo is a pretty fearsome thing, but one with a lame leg would be a lot easier to approach. And, of course, road kill (or, rather, drowned in a flood), as Hok suggests. If you're hungry enough, you'll do a lot of things.

shadron · 5th November 2009, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner

This got me to thinking about the technology difference between Neanderthals and Sapiens. Both a thrusting spear and a thrown spear (or one hurled with an atlatl) will kill a large animal. The distance weapons make it less likely that dinner will turn the table on the hunters though.

Habilis didn't have spears, I don't think. A rock in the hand, perhaps sharpened, was the limit; this was early paleolithic, Olduwan culture. They were named Handy man because the first fossil had an almost complete hand, not because of their advanced tools.

UnrepentantSinner · 5th November 2009, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by shadron

Habilis didn't have spears, I don't think. A rock in the hand, perhaps sharpened, was the limit; this was early paleolithic, Olduwan culture. They were named Handy man because the first fossil had an almost complete hand, not because of their advanced tools.

A. I know that. This is the JREF forum. Why are people so quick to presume ignorance when this is one of the most knowledgeable forums on the Web?
B. Since I didn't mention habilines in my post, your response is germane how?

Sorry, should be more polite... Madurabob was joking about the habilines using hand axes to take down a hippo. His joke reminded me that Neanderthals never developed throwing spears like sapiens did and had to rely on thrusting spears meaning they had to get much closer to some very dangerous prey often resulting in death or injury to the hunters themselves.

eta -

Originally Posted by shadron

Something weird happened. I went and watched what I thought was this video last night. It is definitely related; many short cuts are the same (the making of a tool; some of the pictures of modern humans, like the couple with the darker colored man and the pale woman and the woman with the baby, some of the rotoscoped stuff like the three H. erectus hunters running scene), but the main thrust of the show was on Turkana Boy, a Homo erectus/ergaster fossil from 1.5 MYA....

Heh. Sounds like they ran part two instead of part one. Part two isn't supposed to air until Nov. 10th and the program description does focus on Turkana Boy.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/ev...an-part-2.html

Quote:

In "Birth of Humanity," the second part of the three-part series "Becoming Human," NOVA investigates the first skeleton that really looks like us–"Turkana Boy"–an astonishingly complete specimen of Homo erectus found by the famous Leakey team in Kenya. These early humans are thought to have developed key innovations that helped them thrive, including hunting large prey, the use of fire, and extensive social bonds.

The program examines an intriguing theory that long-distance running–our ability to jog–was crucial for the survival of these early hominids.

shadron · 5th November 2009, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner

A. I know that. This is the JREF forum. Why are people so quick to presume ignorance when this is one of the most knowledgeable forums on the Web?
B. Since I didn't mention habilines in my post, your response is germane how?

Sorry, should be more polite... Madurabob was joking about the habilines using hand axes to take down a hippo. His joke reminded me that Neanderthals never developed throwing spears like sapiens did and had to rely on thrusting spears meaning they had to get much closer to some very dangerous prey often resulting in death or injury to the hunters themselves.

Yeah, sorry myself - I was keying on MaduroBob's habilis. Should have stopped posting a couple of hours ago.

1st November 2009, 04:10 AM	#1
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 23,209	Nova - Becoming Human On Tuesday 3 Nov, PBS will start airing a three part Nova series on human evolution called "Becoming Human". Here's a link to a preview. http://video.pbs.org/video/1300385165/
	__________________ "The permanence of the stars was questioned, the justice of slavery was not" - Carl Sagan in Cosmos discussing the content of the Library of Alexandria. a post by Alan Smithee explained. Blutoski's taxonomy of woo Join my The Not Cool Kids Club

1st November 2009, 06:06 AM	#2
madurobob Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Blue Heaven, NC Posts: 4,146	Yay - finally something interesting on Nova. The video failed to launch when I clicked the link, but it looks like the key plot point in pt 1 is that dramatic climate swings was the key driving factor in early human evolution. Should be interesting. I'll be there.
	__________________ A well made Martini has more often been my true friend than any two-legged creature - me I only get drunk when I'm shot by yaquis - Eastwood.

1st November 2009, 11:09 PM	#3
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: headed back to that dark dark house in the dark dark woods Posts: 19,317	Try it again, Madurobob. It worked for me. I'll have to look for a repeat, I'll be out giving flu shots Tues evening. It looks good.
	__________________ Sk'p' 'el (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Republic Party, in response.) (*Tired of the current Republican talking point of naming everything after Pelosi, Reid &/or Obama, I've decided to start adding Republican names to their fault fiascos.)

2nd November 2009, 06:02 AM	#4
madurobob Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Blue Heaven, NC Posts: 4,146	I cleared my list of blocked/allowed cookies and the video launched just fine. One of those cookies must identify platform/browser for the video. So, yeah, they video says this is based on a ""radical new theory" of a necessity to "adapt or die" due to a series of cataclysmic climate shifts. It does sound interesting... but I suspect they're using a bit of poetic license in calling it a "radical new theory".
	__________________ A well made Martini has more often been my true friend than any two-legged creature - me I only get drunk when I'm shot by yaquis - Eastwood.

2nd November 2009, 04:33 PM	#5
Whiplash Acting like a maniac Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Shipwrecked and Comatose Posts: 4,002	Originally Posted by skeptigirl Try it again, Madurobob. It worked for me. I'll have to look for a repeat, I'll be out giving flu shots Tues evening. It looks good. Proof you are an evil NWO henchman or co-conspirator. I just knew it!
	__________________ "Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" - The Prisoner "Look, I'm a tenth generation A.I. hologramic computer.. I'm not your Mum" - Red Dwarf "Ken Buddah... a smile, two bangs, and a religion" - Monty Python "A little hard work never killed anyone... but I'm not taking any chances" - Upright Citizens Brigade

2nd November 2009, 07:27 PM	#6
Eos of the Eons Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Alberta Posts: 13,253	Originally Posted by skeptigirl Try it again, Madurobob. It worked for me. I'll have to look for a repeat, I'll be out giving flu shots Tues evening. It looks good. How much can I pay ya to get both H1N1 and seasonal shots? I'm not entirely sure which one I got... probably H1N1 considering it is the main strain right now, but I wanna make my chances of getting sick again for another year very very very small! In my area, they are only vaccinating high risk groups right now, and people like me must prove they have an underlying illness before they can get it!
	__________________ Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it! Last edited by Eos of the Eons; 2nd November 2009 at 07:28 PM. Reason: grammars

3rd November 2009, 04:43 AM	#7
Beady Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 44:57:19N, 73:16:18W Posts: 4,970	Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons How much can I pay ya to get both H1N1 and seasonal shots? I'm not entirely sure which one I got... Shot? Or flu? If you got the shot, it's probably seasonal; I've got asthsma, and I'm pretty far down the list. I did get a seasonal shot. If you've got the flu, it's probably N1H1. That seems to be the default diagnosis, probably since they (the GP's office) can't really tell once you've got symptoms.
	__________________ I don't care what you do to the women, leave me alone! -- Badlands Beady

3rd November 2009, 11:55 PM	#8
Hokulele Official Nemesis TLA Dictatrix Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: To be determined. Posts: 21,346	Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner On Tuesday 3 Nov, PBS will start airing a three part Nova series on human evolution called "Becoming Human". Just watched the show. Definitely some food for thought.
	__________________ You, madam, do not appear to be bound by the physical laws that govern the rest of us. - JoeyDonuts You should listen to the evil one - Don't try to understand it, just experience it. - AJM8125

4th November 2009, 07:11 AM	#9
madurobob Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Blue Heaven, NC Posts: 4,146	So, the "radical idea" is that rather than a quick and steady increase in brain size after coming out of the trees and becoming bipedal, our ancestral apes' brain size flat-lined for millions of years. After a nearly four million years of bipedal apes, though, climate changes became quicker and more severe, favoring those with better survival skills; favoring larger brains. Its at this point that we begin to see a quick and steady increase in brain size. Certainly interesting. One thing I hadn't really ever considered was H. Habilis. Meat apparently became an increasingly important part of our ancestor's diets and H. Habilis was the first to make tools; using the tools to butcher animals and cut bones for the marrow. They mentioned finding cut bones of antelope and even hippo. But, H. Habilis was only three feet tall! Were these 3 foot tall apes, armed with just chunks of sharpened flint, really hunting and killing hippos for meat? Amazing.
	__________________ A well made Martini has more often been my true friend than any two-legged creature - me I only get drunk when I'm shot by yaquis - Eastwood.

4th November 2009, 09:50 AM	#10
Beady Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 44:57:19N, 73:16:18W Posts: 4,970	Originally Posted by madurobob Were these 3 foot tall apes, armed with just chunks of sharpened flint, really hunting and killing hippos for meat? Amazing. If the Inuit could hunt whales from kayaks, armed only with stone-headed harpoons...
	__________________ I don't care what you do to the women, leave me alone! -- Badlands Beady

4th November 2009, 12:31 PM	#11
Hokulele Official Nemesis TLA Dictatrix Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: To be determined. Posts: 21,346	Originally Posted by madurobob One thing I hadn't really ever considered was H. Habilis. Meat apparently became an increasingly important part of our ancestor's diets and H. Habilis was the first to make tools; using the tools to butcher animals and cut bones for the marrow. They mentioned finding cut bones of antelope and even hippo. But, H. Habilis was only three feet tall! Were these 3 foot tall apes, armed with just chunks of sharpened flint, really hunting and killing hippos for meat? Amazing. And butchering doesn't always imply hunting/killing. It wouldn't surprise me if mankind's ancestors were scavenger/gatherers as often as hunter/gatherers.
	__________________ You, madam, do not appear to be bound by the physical laws that govern the rest of us. - JoeyDonuts You should listen to the evil one - Don't try to understand it, just experience it. - AJM8125

4th November 2009, 01:16 PM	#12
madurobob Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Blue Heaven, NC Posts: 4,146	Originally Posted by Beady If the Inuit could hunt whales from kayaks, armed only with stone-headed harpoons... True - another amazing feat. But, at least the Inuit had specialized tools and language. And that had to be a fun conversation the first time one suggested to his buds they jump in a tiny boat and attack a huge whale. Sort of like the equivalent of the modern day "hey y'all, watch this!" Originally Posted by Hokulele And butchering doesn't always imply hunting/killing. It wouldn't surprise me if mankind's ancestors were scavenger/gatherers as often as hunter/gatherers. Yeah, the show was silent on that and I assumed at least the mentioned hippo was scavenged. But, I had nothing to base that assumption on other than my brilliant assessment that "hippos are really big".
	__________________ A well made Martini has more often been my true friend than any two-legged creature - me I only get drunk when I'm shot by yaquis - Eastwood.

5th November 2009, 12:23 AM	#13
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 23,209	Originally Posted by madurobob One thing I hadn't really ever considered was H. Habilis. Meat apparently became an increasingly important part of our ancestor's diets and H. Habilis was the first to make tools; using the tools to butcher animals and cut bones for the marrow. They mentioned finding cut bones of antelope and even hippo. But, H. Habilis was only three feet tall! Were these 3 foot tall apes, armed with just chunks of sharpened flint, really hunting and killing hippos for meat? Amazing. This got me to thinking about the technology difference between Neanderthals and Sapiens. Both a thrusting spear and a thrown spear (or one hurled with an atlatl) will kill a large animal. The distance weapons make it less likely that dinner will turn the table on the hunters though.
	__________________ "The permanence of the stars was questioned, the justice of slavery was not" - Carl Sagan in Cosmos discussing the content of the Library of Alexandria. a post by Alan Smithee explained. Blutoski's taxonomy of woo Join my The Not Cool Kids Club

5th November 2009, 01:38 AM	#14
shadron Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,856	Something weird happened. I went and watched what I thought was this video last night. It is definitely related; many short cuts are the same (the making of a tool; some of the pictures of modern humans, like the couple with the darker colored man and the pale woman and the woman with the baby, some of the rotoscoped stuff like the three H. erectus hunters running scene), but the main thrust of the show was on Turkana Boy, a Homo erectus/ergaster fossil from 1.5 MYA. They had a scene in which they showed actors in blue body suits creating the erectus running. After going back and looking at the episode y'all are referring to, I think I must have caught some error in the net and saw one of the two later parts of the series that haven't been officially released yet. It was more centered on the loss of hair and the unique way in which human hunters can run almost any other animal into the ground. That episode didn't much mention climate change. It seems to me a little too bad that they didn't wait on producing this series until the data on Ardi was released, and added into the mix. For one, they emphasized that Ardi lived in a forest, not in a savannah, as was supposed to have been a precondition for bipedality. As for the hippos, they would, like any hunter, be going after the young, the old and the lame animals first. A bull hippo is a pretty fearsome thing, but one with a lame leg would be a lot easier to approach. And, of course, road kill (or, rather, drowned in a flood), as Hok suggests. If you're hungry enough, you'll do a lot of things.
	Last edited by shadron; 5th November 2009 at 01:45 AM.

5th November 2009, 01:53 AM	#15
shadron Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,856	Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner This got me to thinking about the technology difference between Neanderthals and Sapiens. Both a thrusting spear and a thrown spear (or one hurled with an atlatl) will kill a large animal. The distance weapons make it less likely that dinner will turn the table on the hunters though. Habilis didn't have spears, I don't think. A rock in the hand, perhaps sharpened, was the limit; this was early paleolithic, Olduwan culture. They were named Handy man because the first fossil had an almost complete hand, not because of their advanced tools.

5th November 2009, 02:04 AM	#16
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 23,209	Originally Posted by shadron Habilis didn't have spears, I don't think. A rock in the hand, perhaps sharpened, was the limit; this was early paleolithic, Olduwan culture. They were named Handy man because the first fossil had an almost complete hand, not because of their advanced tools. A. I know that. This is the JREF forum. Why are people so quick to presume ignorance when this is one of the most knowledgeable forums on the Web? B. Since I didn't mention habilines in my post, your response is germane how? Sorry, should be more polite... Madurabob was joking about the habilines using hand axes to take down a hippo. His joke reminded me that Neanderthals never developed throwing spears like sapiens did and had to rely on thrusting spears meaning they had to get much closer to some very dangerous prey often resulting in death or injury to the hunters themselves. eta - Originally Posted by shadron Something weird happened. I went and watched what I thought was this video last night. It is definitely related; many short cuts are the same (the making of a tool; some of the pictures of modern humans, like the couple with the darker colored man and the pale woman and the woman with the baby, some of the rotoscoped stuff like the three H. erectus hunters running scene), but the main thrust of the show was on Turkana Boy, a Homo erectus/ergaster fossil from 1.5 MYA.... Heh. Sounds like they ran part two instead of part one. Part two isn't supposed to air until Nov. 10th and the program description does focus on Turkana Boy. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/ev...an-part-2.html Quote: In "Birth of Humanity," the second part of the three-part series "Becoming Human," NOVA investigates the first skeleton that really looks like us–"Turkana Boy"–an astonishingly complete specimen of Homo erectus found by the famous Leakey team in Kenya. These early humans are thought to have developed key innovations that helped them thrive, including hunting large prey, the use of fire, and extensive social bonds. The program examines an intriguing theory that long-distance running–our ability to jog–was crucial for the survival of these early hominids.
	__________________ "The permanence of the stars was questioned, the justice of slavery was not" - Carl Sagan in Cosmos discussing the content of the Library of Alexandria. a post by Alan Smithee explained. Blutoski's taxonomy of woo Join my The Not Cool Kids Club Last edited by UnrepentantSinner; 5th November 2009 at 02:08 AM.

5th November 2009, 02:29 AM	#17
shadron Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,856	Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner A. I know that. This is the JREF forum. Why are people so quick to presume ignorance when this is one of the most knowledgeable forums on the Web? B. Since I didn't mention habilines in my post, your response is germane how? Sorry, should be more polite... Madurabob was joking about the habilines using hand axes to take down a hippo. His joke reminded me that Neanderthals never developed throwing spears like sapiens did and had to rely on thrusting spears meaning they had to get much closer to some very dangerous prey often resulting in death or injury to the hunters themselves. Yeah, sorry myself - I was keying on MaduroBob's habilis. Should have stopped posting a couple of hours ago.