How's this Health Care Process going?

[Undesired Walrus]

I haven't heard from this once hot-topic in a while. Is it still stuck in Commitee? When is it going to the House?

[Oliver]

The latest News was that it has been stalled and it may not be ready till 2010. :"/

[Oliver]

For the latest updates on Healthcare:

http://us.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2009/health.care/

[mhaze]

Health Care is not destined to die a quick death by having life support removed.

Oh, no, noes.

It is to be staked down over an anthill in the desert sun.

[WildCat]

It's FUBAR.

[Policenaut]

Delays and excuses.

[theprestige]

Pretty well, from my point of view. Keep shaking the sieve, and maybe something worth signing into law will finally sift out. In the mean time, no progress is good progress, to this conservative.

[mhaze]

Zombies of Hillary Care, roaming the halls of Congress on segways.

Just set your wooden stakes pointing forward about 54" above that nice polished floor.

[MattusMaximus]

It seems like there will be a final bill from the House next week sometime. But the real trick is the Senate - I'm still optimistic we'll get something from them by early December. At this point, a lot of this talk is basically playing the expectation game, imo.

[MattusMaximus]

Interesting update:

Dem Health bill to get AARP backing

Quote:

In a coup for House Democrats, AARP will endorse sweeping health care overhaul legislation headed for a history-making floor vote, officials told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

An endorsement from the seniors' lobby was critical when then-President George W. Bush pushed the Medicare prescription drug benefit through a closely divided Congress in 2003. House Democratic leaders are hoping it will work the same political magic for them as they strive to deliver on President Barack Obama's signature issue.

An announcement from the 40-million member group is expected Thursday, said officials with knowledge of the group's decision. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the endorsement is not official yet. ...

Seems like this will put a little more wind into the sails, so to speak

[Undesired Walrus]

mhaze, I started this thread to try and get informed on the current situation. If you have nothing worth adding, kindly shut up.

[Undesired Walrus]

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

It seems like there will be a final bill from the House next week sometime. But the real trick is the Senate - I'm still optimistic we'll get something from them by early December. At this point, a lot of this talk is basically playing the expectation game, imo.

Fraid this means little to me. Could you help me out a bit? I find the process of bills becoming law in the US endlessly complicated. Not as complicated at the British system, but still very difficult to understand.

Has it made it further than the Clinton bill?

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Fraid this means little to me. Could you help me out a bit? I find the process of bills becoming law in the US endlessly complicated. Not as complicated at the British system, but still very difficult to understand.

This is how most Americans learned it:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Has it made it further than the Clinton bill?

I don't remember Clinton's plan ever even becoming a bill.

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

mhaze, I started this thread to try and get informed on the current situation. If you have nothing worth adding, kindly shut up.

Ok, will do. A suggestion, you might sign up on Twitter with some of the people in the committee that's got it.

That 1900 page Leviathion bill, a one size fits all snarkfest.

Shutting up now....

Now shut up...

Shutting up accomplished two lines ago.

Hello, my name is HAL.

[Brainster]

I suspect it died about the same time as Jon Corzine's political career.

[Undesired Walrus]

Originally Posted by WildCat

This is how most Americans learned it:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Huh, never realised The Simpsons were satarising something real when they did the 'amendment to be, and I'm hoping that they'll ratify me' song.

Seems similar to the British system. A fair bit more democratic though.

Quote:

I don't remember Clinton's plan ever even becoming a bill.

It not even get into a Committee stage?

[MattusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Fraid this means little to me. Could you help me out a bit? I find the process of bills becoming law in the US endlessly complicated. Not as complicated at the British system, but still very difficult to understand.

Yeah, it's damned slow, but for something this big and important, I like it that way.

Quote:

Has it made it further than the Clinton bill?

Hell yes. I don't even think the Clinton bill made it out of committee. This bill is out of committee and will be brought to the floors of both houses of Congress within a month or so, I think.

[MattusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Brainster

I suspect it died about the same time as Jon Corzine's political career.

And what is it that makes you think it's dead? I call wishful thinking.

[Brainster]

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

And what is it that makes you think it's dead? I call wishful thinking.

A fairly large number of Democrats are from swing districts. When they saw Corzine go down to defeat despite several campaign appearances by Obama and Biden, they surely realized that their political future is in jeopardy. Dick Morris, writing in the NY Post:

Quote:

Until last night, Democratic moderates, the so-called blue dogs, could bask in the light of their candidate's success in 2008. But now they must hear hoof beats behind them. The party discipline on which Obama depends to pass a health-care program that Americans reject by 42 percent for, 55 percent against (Rasmussen again) will only work if beleaguered Democratic incumbents can wrap themselves in Obama's cloak and tough out the popular criticism. But the limits of Obama's drawing power are readily apparent in the Republicans' 20-point victory in Virginia and the race in New Jersey.

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by Brainster

A fairly large number of Democrats are from swing districts. When they saw Corzine go down to defeat despite several campaign appearances by Obama and Biden, they surely realized that their political future is in jeopardy. Dick Morris, writing in the NY Post:

Not only that, but the Congress Critters now have to actually compare the Republican plan with the Democrat plan. And according to the CBO:

The CBO found that under the Republican plan, insurance coverage would increase by about 3 million and that the percentage of insured non-elderly adults would remain at about 83 percent after ten years. The House bill would increase coverage to an additional 36 million people, raising the number of insured to 96 percent.

The CBO put the price tag for the GOP plan at $61 billion, a fraction of the $1.05 trillion cost estimate it gave to the House bill that lawmakers are set to vote on this weekend. And the CBO found that the Republican provision to reform medical malpractice liability would result in $41 billion in savings and increase revenues by $13 billion by reducing the cost of private health insurance plans.

So the Republican plan increases coverage by 3 million (although this is the high risk pools, which is important) and the Democrat plan 36 million, a difference in 33M. But the difference in price is $989B.

Gee, what is 989B/33M?

$29,969 per person - that's the give away in the Democratic plan.

[stevea]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Pretty well, from my point of view. Keep shaking the sieve, and maybe something worth signing into law will finally sift out. In the mean time, no progress is good progress, to this conservative.

In case you haven't noticed the trend, bills always become increasingly large and more complex incorporating all sorts of secondary topics, and then in the last moment a nice thick layer of pork to attract the needed votes. Make it through a sieve ? Lucky if it will make it through a barn-door.

It would be far better if they would break this into separate bills. Perhaps most reasonable ppl would agree that these features are needed;
1/ Address medicare fraud and demonstrate the savings adding these to the proposed solution. Claims that the gov' will save almost $500Bln over 10 years from MC fraud elimination seems like crazy-talk to me. The fraud is there, but no one has any motivation to stop it. Also in part the fraud makes up for the fact the Medicare underpays it's tab.
2/ Implement mandatory electronic record keeping coupled with privacy reqs and severe penalties for abuse ASAP. Mandate record transfer modalities to make data rapidly available almost everywhere.
3/ Tort reform - I prefer the British "loser pays" method. I hate the US scheme with outlandish pain&suffering claims - those should be capped, but not actual damage amounts.
4/ The problem is not that ppl don't have access to care, but that the care is only available at an ER when it becomes life threatening. So there is little preventative care and no payment for chronic care (diabetis or lupus meds and supplies for example). We need to implement some decent system of preventative and chronic condition care for the indigent - even if it means expanding medicare type programs.
5/ We should find best/cost-saving practices already in existence and see if these can be applied elsewhere in pilot programs.
6/ Pharmacy and medical suppliers should be forced to compete on price. None of this "charge Americans double' on new pharma.
7/ Medicare doesn't pay it's fair share (only ~80% of actual hospital costs) so the burden of hospital costs is already unfairly shifted to insurance and to private payers. As a result some physicians won't accept medicare and more will leave the profession as the government cheats moreso on payments. This must stop. Hospitals in some SW states mustr already underwrite ERs.

I could go on, but the point is that there are a lot clear problems in healthcare that need to be addressed and there are probably good consensus solutions to many of these. Putting a conglomerate bill that includes very controversial parts, like goverment insurance plans and mandates on insurance companies that will certainly raise the costs of insurance dramatically is not reasonable.

==
Of course your "representatives" of either party have little interest in actually representing their constituents or in solving problems.

I think they will try to pass this on Saturday, after a few hundred pages of Friday-night pork additions. I hope it is stalled/stopped.

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by stevea

In case you haven't noticed the trend, bills always become increasingly large and more complex incorporating all sorts of secondary topics, and then in the last moment a nice thick layer of pork to attract the needed votes. Make it through a sieve ? Lucky if it will make it through a barn-door.

It would be far better if they would break this into separate bills. Perhaps most reasonable ppl would agree that these features are needed;
1/ Address medicare fraud and demonstrate the savings adding these to the proposed solution. Claims that the gov' will save almost $500Bln over 10 years from MC fraud elimination seems like crazy-talk to me. The fraud is there, but no one has any motivation to stop it. Also in part the fraud makes up for the fact the Medicare underpays it's tab.
2/ Implement mandatory electronic record keeping coupled with privacy reqs and severe penalties for abuse ASAP. Mandate record transfer modalities to make data rapidly available almost everywhere.
3/ Tort reform - I prefer the British "loser pays" method. I hate the US scheme with outlandish pain&suffering claims - those should be capped, but not actual damage amounts.
4/ The problem is not that ppl don't have access to care, but that the care is only available at an ER when it becomes life threatening. So there is little preventative care and no payment for chronic care (diabetis or lupus meds and supplies for example). We need to implement some decent system of preventative and chronic condition care for the indigent - even if it means expanding medicare type programs.
5/ We should find best/cost-saving practices already in existence and see if these can be applied elsewhere in pilot programs.
6/ Pharmacy and medical suppliers should be forced to compete on price. None of this "charge Americans double' on new pharma.
7/ Medicare doesn't pay it's fair share (only ~80% of actual hospital costs) so the burden of hospital costs is already unfairly shifted to insurance and to private payers. As a result some physicians won't accept medicare and more will leave the profession as the government cheats moreso on payments. This must stop. Hospitals in some SW states mustr already underwrite ERs.

I could go on, but the point is that there are a lot clear problems in healthcare that need to be addressed and there are probably good consensus solutions to many of these. Putting a conglomerate bill that includes very controversial parts, like goverment insurance plans and mandates on insurance companies that will certainly raise the costs of insurance dramatically is not reasonable.

==
Of course your "representatives" of either party have little interest in actually representing their constituents or in solving problems.

I think they will try to pass this on Saturday, after a few hundred pages of Friday-night pork additions. I hope it is stalled/stopped.

You make sense. Why aren't you in Washington?

Hehehehe...

Postscript: I find out there are a few in Washington right now encouraging "Just Say No".

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/11/05/...nst-obamacare/