Israel/Palestine two-state solution is now dead

parky76 · 17th November 2009, 01:48 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091117/...l_palestinians

It is pretty clear now that the two-state solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict is now dead. This is because Israel refuses to stop building new homes in settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

The two biggest issues in the Middle East conflict are land...and peace.

The Israelis want an end to all armed struggle from the Palestinians.

The Palestinians want land for their new state.

But Israel has refused to stop building in existing Jewish settlements, which most of the World considers to be illegal. If not even the USA can convince or force Israel to stop building, then what is the point?

What is the point of negotiating Land for Peace..if Israel insists on taking more land? The "Peace Process" is dead. The two-state solution is dead.

I predict that within the next year or two, the Palestinians will officially declare their opposition to an independent Palestinian state, and demand that Israel annex the territories and offer full citizenship to the Palestinian people. If they keep on seeking the two-state route, they will just end up with a swiss cheese state, with no control over their water, air, or eastern border.

The bi-national state is now the only viable solution left.

Darth Rotor · 17th November 2009, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

[url]
It is pretty clear now that the two-state solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict is now dead.

Was it ever alive? Methinks not, unless one takes tasty bites of LSD.

Quote:

This is because Israel refuses to stop building new homes in settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank

.
Right, only one cause to this problem.

Quote:

The two biggest issues in the Middle East conflict are land...and peace.
The Israelis want an end to all armed struggle from the Palestinians.
The Palestinians want land for their new state.

A third grade level understanding of the issue, my, how precocious thou art.

Quote:

But Israel has refused to stop building in existing Jewish settlements, which most of the World considers to be illegal. If not even the USA can convince or force Israel to stop building, then what is the point?

Indeed, what is the point?

Quote:

What is the point of negotiating Land for Peace..if Israel insists on taking more land? The "Peace Process" is dead. The two-state solution is dead.

Was it ever alive?

Quote:

I predict that within the next year or two, the Palestinians will officially declare their opposition to an independent Palestinian state, and demand that Israel annex the territories and offer full citizenship to the Palestinian people. If they keep on seeking the two-state route, they will just end up with a swiss cheese state, with no control over their water, air, or eastern border.

The bi-national state is now the only viable solution left.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...44840_8553.jpg

Riiight, the world comes to parky for The Only Viable Solution Remaining.

Parky, if they come to you, it will be time for all thinking people to hitch a ride on a comet, as stupid will have replaced life on this planet.

Either that, or Xenu will have returned.

DR

parky76 · 17th November 2009, 06:43 PM

Well, maybe if Israel had made a real offer to Arafat in 2000, rather then the BS offer that they gave, we wouldn't be in the situation we are today. Israel killed the peace process when they started building the settlements, offered crap at Camp David in 2000, and kept building settlements through today.

Israel doesn't want peace...at least not with a viable Palestinian State. they want the land, all of it, and thats what they should get.

I propose that Israel annex the West Bank immediately.

Darth Rotor · 17th November 2009, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

I propose that Israel annex the West Bank immediately.

Blood and iron.

How very old school, how very Bismarckian of you parky!

Of course, it will work, won't it?

parky76 · 17th November 2009, 06:48 PM

Blut und Eisen. Jawohl!!!!!

But anyways, Israel should annex the West Bank immediately. No one is gonna stop them...so why not?

What could possibly go wrong with annexing all the land to the Jordan river?

...well there is that pesky issue of 5 million Palestinians. what does Israel do with them? hmmmm.......

theprestige · 17th November 2009, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

...well there is that pesky issue of 5 million Palestinians. what does Israel do with them? hmmmm.......

I'm thinking that the current policy of mostly ignoring them while going about their own business, punctuated by occasional applications of overwhelming force, seems to be working out pretty well. Why rush things?

parky76 · 17th November 2009, 07:19 PM

Yes. Israel could annex the West Bank and leave the status quo in regards to the Palestinian people.

but what about voting rights? what about civil service? no Western-style liberal Democracy would annex thousands of square miles of land without offering the people on those lands citizenship, the right to vote, and the right to run for public office.

either way, I pray the Palestinians give up on the idea of their own state, and make Israeli annexation their demand.

boy, would that put Israel in quite a pickle.

theprestige · 17th November 2009, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

Yes. Israel could annex the West Bank and leave the status quo in regards to the Palestinian people.

but what about voting rights? what about civil service? no Western-style liberal Democracy would annex thousands of square miles of land without offering the people on those lands citizenship, the right to vote, and the right to run for public office.

either way, I pray the Palestinians give up on the idea of their own state, and make Israeli annexation their demand.

boy, would that put Israel in quite a pickle.

Not really. They'd just declare them refugees and stick them in camps with even less rights than they have right now. Kind of like how Lebanon, Syria, etc. deal with their own "palestinian problem".

parky76 · 17th November 2009, 07:50 PM

well, the Palestinians can't really demand a state. but they CAN demand that Israel annex the West Bank and give them citizenship.

oh, I wish this would happen.

and if Israel DID annex the West Bank, but offered the Palestinians something short of full citizenship, they would be declared an Apartheid state.

the_eye · 17th November 2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Right, only one cause to this problem.

It is one of the major Issues with the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, solving this issue would certainly move the Peace movement along. On the Israeli side, anyway.

Quote:

Was it ever alive?

What else is the Alternative? The Israeli Government has said that it wouldn't accept Palestinians as Citizens, changing the demographics in favor to Arabs. The current situation is

the_eye · 17th November 2009, 07:58 PM

edit

parky76 · 17th November 2009, 08:08 PM

I guess Israel could just keep the status quo....building more and more settlements and stringing along the Palestinians.

but if the Palestinians abandon their goal of their own state, and instead demand citizenship within Israel, they will have to make a choice: annex the land up to the Seperation Wall and say bye bye to the rest of the WB and evacuate the remaining Jews, or annex it all and make the Palestinians citizens of Israel.

Tailgater · 17th November 2009, 09:28 PM

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...63#post5317363

WildCat · 17th November 2009, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Tailgater

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...63#post5317363

Sorry Tailgator, you don't win the $1 million by predicting the sun rising in the east.

Policenaut · 17th November 2009, 09:51 PM

There is no solution to this problem because it is too important a propaganda tool to be settled. I don't think the Israelis have a problem with the conflict ending but surely the rest of the arab world does including Hamas. Without the poor Palestinians to hold up as the reason to hate the jews they will only have one reason left: Racism.

Also...it is starting again. The pollution has returned with a vengeance.

Doctor Evil · 17th November 2009, 11:26 PM

The Fool · 18th November 2009, 03:31 AM

Parky...
A 2 state solution will never be dead. Either will be a one state solution or a stay as we are solution. It all depends on what you say when you are asked what a solution entails as a minimum requirement.

Anyone want to suggest a minimum requirement for proclaiming a solution?

Mine would be "All Stateless people get a state, the state that a simple majority of them agree to. They get zip until they can agree"

shouldn't be too hard eh? Get that done by Sunday...

mortimer · 18th November 2009, 06:14 AM

Parky, what makes you think that, if the Palestinians demand to be annexed, that Israel will be forced to accept? Who is going to force them to accept?

Eyeron · 18th November 2009, 09:39 AM

Why, the all powerful United nations of course.

Darth Rotor · 18th November 2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by The Fool

Parky...
A 2 state solution will never be dead. Either will be a one state solution or a stay as we are solution. It all depends on what you say when you are asked what a solution entails as a minimum requirement.

Anyone want to suggest a minimum requirement for proclaiming a solution?

Mine would be "All Stateless people get a state, the state that a simple majority of them agree to. They get zip until they can agree"

shouldn't be too hard eh? Get that done by Sunday...

I appreciate your support for an independent Kurdistan, TF, warmly and with great feeling.

Pardalis · 18th November 2009, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

I appreciate your support for an independent Kurdistan, TF, warmly and with great feeling.

And the Québécois as well.

parky76 · 18th November 2009, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by mortimer

Parky, what makes you think that, if the Palestinians demand to be annexed, that Israel will be forced to accept? Who is going to force them to accept?

for what reason would Israel refuse to annex the WB? isn't it their dream to fully control and settle The Land of Israel?

if the Palestinians offer them this dream, I see no reason why they would refuse.

Jews could live anywhere in the West Bank, buy land anywhere in the West Bank, and the Palestinians would have no problem with it. sounds like a dream come true.

mortimer · 18th November 2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by parky76

for what reason would Israel refuse to annex the WB? isn't it their dream to fully control and settle The Land of Israel?

if the Palestinians offer them this dream, I see no reason why they would refuse.

Jews could live anywhere in the West Bank, buy land anywhere in the West Bank, and the Palestinians would have no problem with it. sounds like a dream come true.

There's nothing stopping Israel from annexing the entire WB and Gaza now; they don't need an offer from the Palestinians to do so. Why do you think they haven't?

parky76 · 18th November 2009, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by mortimer

There's nothing stopping Israel from annexing the entire WB and Gaza now; they don't need an offer from the Palestinians to do so. Why do you think they haven't?

um...they don't like A-Rabs?

mortimer · 18th November 2009, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

um...they don't like A-Rabs?

Try again.

parky76 · 18th November 2009, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by mortimer

Try again.

you are right. i should have said "they don't want 5 million more Arabs...who can vote and run for office."

Darth Rotor · 18th November 2009, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

And the Québécois as well.

Did I set that trap for me to fall into, or what?

I feel like that absent-minded Yukon Fur Trapper who was late for his wedding because he had to limp a hundred miles, having injured himself by stepping in a beaver trap he'd set the week before ...

mortimer · 18th November 2009, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

you are right. i should have said "they don't want 5 million more Arabs...who can vote and run for office."

Correct. Now, why would a Palestinian demand to be annexed require Israel to annex? Who is going to force Israel to do this against their will?

The Fool · 18th November 2009, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

I appreciate your support for an independent Kurdistan, TF, warmly and with great feeling.

are kurds stateless?

The Fool · 18th November 2009, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by mortimer

Correct. Now, why would a Palestinian demand to be annexed require Israel to annex? Who is going to force Israel to do this against their will?

well if they proclaim land to be Israel what about the people living there?

The Fool · 18th November 2009, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

And the Québécois as well.

are they stateless?

parky76 · 18th November 2009, 05:37 PM

i find it hard to believe, that if the Palestinians moved to dismantle their self-government, and asked for the Israelis to annex the WB, Israel would be able to refuse.

It is Israel's dream to fully control Eretz Yisrael...and an Arab offer to do just that..would be priceless.

theprestige · 18th November 2009, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by mortimer

Parky, what makes you think that, if the Palestinians demand to be annexed, that Israel will be forced to accept? Who is going to force them to accept?

I don't think that's quite what Parky is saying.

As I understand it, Parky's idea is that if Israel did accept the demand, the Palestinians would be in a position to democratically abolish the nation of Israel (and/or impose the tyranny of the state on their erstwhile oppressors). Therefore, Israel will never admit Palestinians as citizens, even if they demand such a thing.

Is that an accurate analysis of your point, Parky?

parky76 · 18th November 2009, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I don't think that's quite what Parky is saying.

As I understand it, Parky's idea is that if Israel did accept the demand, the Palestinians would be in a position to democratically abolish the nation of Israel (and/or impose the tyranny of the state on their erstwhile oppressors). Therefore, Israel will never admit Palestinians as citizens, even if they demand such a thing.

Is that an accurate analysis of your point, Parky?

No. I think if the Palestinians demanded annexation and citizenship, Israel would be forced to become a bi-national state. A nation-state for two peoples.

mortimer · 18th November 2009, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

No. I think if the Palestinians demanded annexation and citizenship, Israel would be forced to become a bi-national state. A nation-state for two peoples.

Forced by whom? Why is this so difficult for you to answer?

a_unique_person · 19th November 2009, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by mortimer

Forced by whom? Why is this so difficult for you to answer?

Circumstances.

Skeptic · 19th November 2009, 04:00 AM

The Arabs, currently, have two destroy-Israel plans: first, using a Palestinian state as a military Hamas base for bombing Israel incessantly (and demanding Israel not reply, since that is a "war crime", you know).

Second, forcing Israel to commit demographic suicide and making it face the fate of all nations with a Arab-Muslim majority, to wit, the eradication and expulsion of the minority by pogroms, threats, economic destruction, formal and actual second-class citizenship, etc., as happened to the Jewish and Christian minorities in all other Muslim-Arab countries.

The nasty ol' racist zionist occupiers have, so far, declined both offers. Isn't it just awful of them?

The Fool · 19th November 2009, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

The Arabs, currently, have two destroy-Israel plans: first, using a Palestinian state as a military Hamas base for bombing Israel incessantly

so do you think that Hamas is going to defeat the IDF militarily?

Quote:

Second, forcing Israel to commit demographic suicide and making it face the fate of all nations with a Arab-Muslim majority, to wit, the eradication and expulsion of the minority by pogroms, threats, economic destruction, formal and actual second-class citizenship, etc., as happened to the Jewish and Christian minorities in all other Muslim-Arab countries.

so how are they going to do this? By forcing Israel to make them citizens? How will Israel do that?

parky76 · 19th November 2009, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by The Fool

so do you think that Hamas is going to defeat the IDF militarily?

lolol. how many more wars do we need before it becomes clear to all but those in a coma, that Israel cannot be defeated by conventional warfare?

mortimer · 19th November 2009, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Circumstances.

What circumstances are going to force Israel to annex the WB and Gaza, after the Palestinians demand it?

17th November 2009, 01:48 PM	#1
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Israel/Palestine two-state solution is now dead http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091117/...l_palestinians It is pretty clear now that the two-state solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict is now dead. This is because Israel refuses to stop building new homes in settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. The two biggest issues in the Middle East conflict are land...and peace. The Israelis want an end to all armed struggle from the Palestinians. The Palestinians want land for their new state. But Israel has refused to stop building in existing Jewish settlements, which most of the World considers to be illegal. If not even the USA can convince or force Israel to stop building, then what is the point? What is the point of negotiating Land for Peace..if Israel insists on taking more land? The "Peace Process" is dead. The two-state solution is dead. I predict that within the next year or two, the Palestinians will officially declare their opposition to an independent Palestinian state, and demand that Israel annex the territories and offer full citizenship to the Palestinian people. If they keep on seeking the two-state route, they will just end up with a swiss cheese state, with no control over their water, air, or eastern border. The bi-national state is now the only viable solution left.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt." Last edited by parky76; 17th November 2009 at 01:55 PM.

17th November 2009, 06:29 PM	#2
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,802	Originally Posted by parky76 [url] It is pretty clear now that the two-state solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict is now dead. Was it ever alive? Methinks not, unless one takes tasty bites of LSD. Quote: This is because Israel refuses to stop building new homes in settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank . Right, only one cause to this problem. Quote: The two biggest issues in the Middle East conflict are land...and peace. The Israelis want an end to all armed struggle from the Palestinians. The Palestinians want land for their new state. A third grade level understanding of the issue, my, how precocious thou art. Quote: But Israel has refused to stop building in existing Jewish settlements, which most of the World considers to be illegal. If not even the USA can convince or force Israel to stop building, then what is the point? Indeed, what is the point? Quote: What is the point of negotiating Land for Peace..if Israel insists on taking more land? The "Peace Process" is dead. The two-state solution is dead. Was it ever alive? Quote: I predict that within the next year or two, the Palestinians will officially declare their opposition to an independent Palestinian state, and demand that Israel annex the territories and offer full citizenship to the Palestinian people. If they keep on seeking the two-state route, they will just end up with a swiss cheese state, with no control over their water, air, or eastern border. The bi-national state is now the only viable solution left. http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...44840_8553.jpg Riiight, the world comes to parky for The Only Viable Solution Remaining. Parky, if they come to you, it will be time for all thinking people to hitch a ride on a comet, as stupid will have replaced life on this planet. Either that, or Xenu will have returned. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon Last edited by Darth Rotor; 17th November 2009 at 06:30 PM.

17th November 2009, 06:43 PM	#3
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Well, maybe if Israel had made a real offer to Arafat in 2000, rather then the BS offer that they gave, we wouldn't be in the situation we are today. Israel killed the peace process when they started building the settlements, offered crap at Camp David in 2000, and kept building settlements through today. Israel doesn't want peace...at least not with a viable Palestinian State. they want the land, all of it, and thats what they should get. I propose that Israel annex the West Bank immediately.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

17th November 2009, 06:45 PM	#4
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,802	Originally Posted by parky76 I propose that Israel annex the West Bank immediately. Blood and iron. How very old school, how very Bismarckian of you parky! Of course, it will work, won't it?
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon

17th November 2009, 06:48 PM	#5
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Blut und Eisen. Jawohl!!!!! But anyways, Israel should annex the West Bank immediately. No one is gonna stop them...so why not? What could possibly go wrong with annexing all the land to the Jordan river? ...well there is that pesky issue of 5 million Palestinians. what does Israel do with them? hmmmm.......
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

17th November 2009, 07:08 PM	#6
theprestige Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,099	Originally Posted by parky76 ...well there is that pesky issue of 5 million Palestinians. what does Israel do with them? hmmmm....... I'm thinking that the current policy of mostly ignoring them while going about their own business, punctuated by occasional applications of overwhelming force, seems to be working out pretty well. Why rush things?

17th November 2009, 07:19 PM	#7
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Yes. Israel could annex the West Bank and leave the status quo in regards to the Palestinian people. but what about voting rights? what about civil service? no Western-style liberal Democracy would annex thousands of square miles of land without offering the people on those lands citizenship, the right to vote, and the right to run for public office. either way, I pray the Palestinians give up on the idea of their own state, and make Israeli annexation their demand. boy, would that put Israel in quite a pickle.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt." Last edited by parky76; 17th November 2009 at 07:22 PM.

17th November 2009, 07:45 PM	#8
theprestige Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,099	Originally Posted by parky76 Yes. Israel could annex the West Bank and leave the status quo in regards to the Palestinian people. but what about voting rights? what about civil service? no Western-style liberal Democracy would annex thousands of square miles of land without offering the people on those lands citizenship, the right to vote, and the right to run for public office. either way, I pray the Palestinians give up on the idea of their own state, and make Israeli annexation their demand. boy, would that put Israel in quite a pickle. Not really. They'd just declare them refugees and stick them in camps with even less rights than they have right now. Kind of like how Lebanon, Syria, etc. deal with their own "palestinian problem".

17th November 2009, 07:50 PM	#9
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	well, the Palestinians can't really demand a state. but they CAN demand that Israel annex the West Bank and give them citizenship. oh, I wish this would happen. and if Israel DID annex the West Bank, but offered the Palestinians something short of full citizenship, they would be declared an Apartheid state.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

17th November 2009, 07:57 PM	#10
the_eye Scholar Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 55	Quote: Right, only one cause to this problem. It is one of the major Issues with the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, solving this issue would certainly move the Peace movement along. On the Israeli side, anyway. Quote: Was it ever alive? What else is the Alternative? The Israeli Government has said that it wouldn't accept Palestinians as Citizens, changing the demographics in favor to Arabs. The current situation is

17th November 2009, 07:58 PM	#11
the_eye Scholar Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 55	edit
	Last edited by the_eye; 17th November 2009 at 07:59 PM. Reason: a

17th November 2009, 08:08 PM	#12
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	I guess Israel could just keep the status quo....building more and more settlements and stringing along the Palestinians. but if the Palestinians abandon their goal of their own state, and instead demand citizenship within Israel, they will have to make a choice: annex the land up to the Seperation Wall and say bye bye to the rest of the WB and evacuate the remaining Jews, or annex it all and make the Palestinians citizens of Israel.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

17th November 2009, 09:28 PM	#13
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,091	http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...63#post5317363
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,091

17th November 2009, 09:31 PM	#14
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 24,978	Originally Posted by Tailgater http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...63#post5317363 Sorry Tailgator, you don't win the $1 million by predicting the sun rising in the east.
	__________________ "My opinion is not uninformed there are just many things I have no clue about." -atavisms "Iran DOES have the right and good reason to attack Israel." -parky76

17th November 2009, 09:51 PM	#15
Policenaut Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Shadow Moses Island Posts: 1,330	There is no solution to this problem because it is too important a propaganda tool to be settled. I don't think the Israelis have a problem with the conflict ending but surely the rest of the arab world does including Hamas. Without the poor Palestinians to hold up as the reason to hate the jews they will only have one reason left: Racism. Also...it is starting again. The pollution has returned with a vengeance.
	Last edited by Policenaut; 17th November 2009 at 09:53 PM.

17th November 2009, 11:26 PM	#16
Doctor Evil Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,290
	__________________ "ut biberent, quando esse nollent " (if they will not eat, then they will drink) -- Publius Claudius Pulcher "In this universe, effect follows cause. I've complained about it but ... " -- House

18th November 2009, 03:31 AM	#17
The Fool Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 8,865	Parky... A 2 state solution will never be dead. Either will be a one state solution or a stay as we are solution. It all depends on what you say when you are asked what a solution entails as a minimum requirement. Anyone want to suggest a minimum requirement for proclaiming a solution? Mine would be "All Stateless people get a state, the state that a simple majority of them agree to. They get zip until they can agree" shouldn't be too hard eh? Get that done by Sunday...
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

18th November 2009, 06:14 AM	#18
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,897	Parky, what makes you think that, if the Palestinians demand to be annexed, that Israel will be forced to accept? Who is going to force them to accept?
	__________________ Dylan, showing his true colors: "Well, Virgin signed a contract, so essentially, they paid us for the rights to NOT screen Loose Change 2. Us: 1. Haters: 0. :lol:"

18th November 2009, 09:39 AM	#19
Eyeron Guest Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,774	Why, the all powerful United nations of course.
Eyeron Guest Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,774

18th November 2009, 10:47 AM	#20
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,802	Originally Posted by The Fool Parky... A 2 state solution will never be dead. Either will be a one state solution or a stay as we are solution. It all depends on what you say when you are asked what a solution entails as a minimum requirement. Anyone want to suggest a minimum requirement for proclaiming a solution? Mine would be "All Stateless people get a state, the state that a simple majority of them agree to. They get zip until they can agree" shouldn't be too hard eh? Get that done by Sunday... I appreciate your support for an independent Kurdistan, TF, warmly and with great feeling.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton____"Atheism is no safeguard against stupidity."--The Atheist____If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok____ "Your onus is aimed in the wrong direction." -- Cleon

18th November 2009, 11:04 AM	#21
Pardalis Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 19,186	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor I appreciate your support for an independent Kurdistan, TF, warmly and with great feeling. And the Québécois as well.
	__________________ "It's much better to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has got it wrong because it doesn't share your point of view." aggle-rithm "In reality, the most astonishingly incredible coincidence imaginable would be the complete absence of all coincidences." John Allen Paulos

18th November 2009, 11:37 AM	#22
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Originally Posted by mortimer Parky, what makes you think that, if the Palestinians demand to be annexed, that Israel will be forced to accept? Who is going to force them to accept? for what reason would Israel refuse to annex the WB? isn't it their dream to fully control and settle The Land of Israel? if the Palestinians offer them this dream, I see no reason why they would refuse. Jews could live anywhere in the West Bank, buy land anywhere in the West Bank, and the Palestinians would have no problem with it. sounds like a dream come true.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

18th November 2009, 11:46 AM	#23
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,897	Originally Posted by parky76 for what reason would Israel refuse to annex the WB? isn't it their dream to fully control and settle The Land of Israel? if the Palestinians offer them this dream, I see no reason why they would refuse. Jews could live anywhere in the West Bank, buy land anywhere in the West Bank, and the Palestinians would have no problem with it. sounds like a dream come true. There's nothing stopping Israel from annexing the entire WB and Gaza now; they don't need an offer from the Palestinians to do so. Why do you think they haven't?
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18th November 2009, 12:24 PM	#24
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Originally Posted by mortimer There's nothing stopping Israel from annexing the entire WB and Gaza now; they don't need an offer from the Palestinians to do so. Why do you think they haven't? um...they don't like A-Rabs?
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

18th November 2009, 12:37 PM	#25
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,897	Originally Posted by parky76 um...they don't like A-Rabs? Try again.
	__________________ Dylan, showing his true colors: "Well, Virgin signed a contract, so essentially, they paid us for the rights to NOT screen Loose Change 2. Us: 1. Haters: 0. :lol:"

18th November 2009, 12:39 PM	#26
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Originally Posted by mortimer Try again. you are right. i should have said "they don't want 5 million more Arabs...who can vote and run for office."
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

18th November 2009, 12:43 PM	#27
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 26,802	Originally Posted by Pardalis And the Québécois as well. Did I set that trap for me to fall into, or what? I feel like that absent-minded Yukon Fur Trapper who was late for his wedding because he had to limp a hundred miles, having injured himself by stepping in a beaver trap he'd set the week before ...
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18th November 2009, 12:52 PM	#28
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,897	Originally Posted by parky76 you are right. i should have said "they don't want 5 million more Arabs...who can vote and run for office." Correct. Now, why would a Palestinian demand to be annexed require Israel to annex? Who is going to force Israel to do this against their will?
	__________________ Dylan, showing his true colors: "Well, Virgin signed a contract, so essentially, they paid us for the rights to NOT screen Loose Change 2. Us: 1. Haters: 0. :lol:"

18th November 2009, 04:53 PM	#29
The Fool Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 8,865	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor I appreciate your support for an independent Kurdistan, TF, warmly and with great feeling. are kurds stateless?
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

18th November 2009, 04:56 PM	#30
The Fool Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 8,865	Originally Posted by mortimer Correct. Now, why would a Palestinian demand to be annexed require Israel to annex? Who is going to force Israel to do this against their will? well if they proclaim land to be Israel what about the people living there?
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

18th November 2009, 04:57 PM	#31
The Fool Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 8,865	Originally Posted by Pardalis And the Québécois as well. are they stateless?
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

18th November 2009, 05:37 PM	#32
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	i find it hard to believe, that if the Palestinians moved to dismantle their self-government, and asked for the Israelis to annex the WB, Israel would be able to refuse. It is Israel's dream to fully control Eretz Yisrael...and an Arab offer to do just that..would be priceless.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

18th November 2009, 06:20 PM	#33
theprestige Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,099	Originally Posted by mortimer Parky, what makes you think that, if the Palestinians demand to be annexed, that Israel will be forced to accept? Who is going to force them to accept? I don't think that's quite what Parky is saying. As I understand it, Parky's idea is that if Israel did accept the demand, the Palestinians would be in a position to democratically abolish the nation of Israel (and/or impose the tyranny of the state on their erstwhile oppressors). Therefore, Israel will never admit Palestinians as citizens, even if they demand such a thing. Is that an accurate analysis of your point, Parky?

18th November 2009, 06:23 PM	#34
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,493	Originally Posted by theprestige I don't think that's quite what Parky is saying. As I understand it, Parky's idea is that if Israel did accept the demand, the Palestinians would be in a position to democratically abolish the nation of Israel (and/or impose the tyranny of the state on their erstwhile oppressors). Therefore, Israel will never admit Palestinians as citizens, even if they demand such a thing. Is that an accurate analysis of your point, Parky? No. I think if the Palestinians demanded annexation and citizenship, Israel would be forced to become a bi-national state. A nation-state for two peoples.
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18th November 2009, 08:54 PM	#35
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,897	Originally Posted by parky76 No. I think if the Palestinians demanded annexation and citizenship, Israel would be forced to become a bi-national state. A nation-state for two peoples. Forced by whom? Why is this so difficult for you to answer?
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