[Merged] CBO Says Senate Health Bill Will Shave $127 Billion off Deficit

Unabogie · 18th November 2009, 04:00 PM

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...er.php?ref=fpa

Quote:

The health care bill--which includes an opt-out public option--will require $849 billion over 10 years in new spending, to be paid for with cuts to Medicare, while reducing the deficit by $127 billion.

In that time it will extend coverage to 31 million Americans--94 percent of citizens will be covered by 2019.

Over the second 10 years, CBO projects even greater cost savings--up to $650 billion, with the caveat that after 10 years, their analyses become highly uncertain.

CBO is non-partisan, isn't it? Any reason to doubt these numbers?

parky76 · 18th November 2009, 04:04 PM

no reason to doubt the numbers.

I hope, that the state ability to opt-out of the public option, will satisfy Lieberman enough not to give the Republikkkans a filibuster. maybe a 5 year trigger for HMOs to lower rates should also be added for the public-option, in case Lieberman still says no.

fingers crossed.

rwguinn · 18th November 2009, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Unabogie

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...er.php?ref=fpa

CBO is non-partisan, isn't it? Any reason to doubt these numbers?

Typical politico talk-849 billion in new spending is a 127 billion "cost savings"...

Unabogie · 18th November 2009, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

Typical politico talk-849 billion in new spending is a 127 billion "cost savings"...

You don't seem to understand the bill. CBO says it will cut the deficit, not cut costs from the total cost of the bill. The reason is it makes cuts to the overages we currently pay to Medicare Advantage providers.

That's money we're already spending that will be reduced. Which is why they (CBO) can state that although the bill costs money, it will save $127 billion more than it will spend.

Puppycow · 18th November 2009, 05:57 PM

Linky

Quote:

A Senate aide said the CBO also estimated the Senate plan will reduce the deficit by $127 billion over 10 years and $650 billion in the second decade, while cutting the number of uninsured by 31 million.

This means that Obama is a fiscal conservative and people who oppose Obamacare are not.

Also, three sevens is very auspicious!

daenku32 · 18th November 2009, 06:28 PM

Accusations that CBO is a partisan store start in 3...2...1...

Unabogie · 18th November 2009, 06:37 PM

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159643

Come and join the party

Unabogie · 18th November 2009, 06:42 PM

The Senate has released their bill online.

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/p...e-care-act.pdf

They don't plan to vote on it until Saturday.

I wonder how many hours that is?

Puppycow · 18th November 2009, 06:49 PM

Oops. I looked for a thread but didn't see it.

Puppycow · 18th November 2009, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Unabogie

The Senate has released their bill online.

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/p...e-care-act.pdf

They don't plan to vote on it until Saturday.

I wonder how many hours that is?

The senate could vote on Saturday? I thought that this thing was supposed to drag on until early next year. Do you mean debate starts on Saturday?

parky76 · 18th November 2009, 06:55 PM

they have to vote on whether to start debating...i believe. and then they have to vote to vote.

Unabogie · 18th November 2009, 07:01 PM

^^^^^

What he said.

JoeTheJuggler · 18th November 2009, 07:06 PM

Yes, they're talking about *maybe* beginning debate on Saturday.

So this is the bill that is the combination of the other 2 Senate bills (S1679 and S1796).

It's called the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and has been posted on the web:

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/p...e-care-act.pdf
ETA: I just realized that Unabogie just posted the same link.

However, I can't for the life of me get the file to open. Is it just me, or is there something wrong with it?

Where's MHaze? I'm sure this is part of the conspiracy of silence so they can add in pork without anyone knowing about it--despite the CBO evaluation. We *must* be chumps!

Unabogie · 18th November 2009, 07:08 PM

It opens fine for me using Firefox, and the latest Acrobat Reader.

Puppycow · 18th November 2009, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Unabogie

It opens fine for me using Firefox, and the latest Acrobat Reader.

Same here. Same browser too.

JoeTheJuggler · 18th November 2009, 07:27 PM

I've got it now.

tyr_13 · 18th November 2009, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Yes, they're talking about *maybe* beginning debate on Saturday.

So this is the bill that is the combination of the other 2 Senate bills (S1679 and S1796).

It's called the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and has been posted on the web:

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/p...e-care-act.pdf
ETA: I just realized that Unabogie just posted the same link.

However, I can't for the life of me get the file to open. Is it just me, or is there something wrong with it?

Where's MHaze? I'm sure this is part of the conspiracy of silence so they can add in pork without anyone knowing about it--despite the CBO evaluation. We *must* be chumps!

I don't think we'll hear from a lot of the opponents of this until they, the radio show hosts, television 'opinion' hosts, and bloggers have a chance to go through the CBO report.

Then they can start moving goalposts and telling us how it really has nothing to do with the costs.

Tailgater · 18th November 2009, 08:27 PM

The mammogram debate started rolling today.

Coming to a thread near you....

DavidJames · 18th November 2009, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Unabogie

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...er.php?ref=fpa

CBO is non-partisan, isn't it? Any reason to doubt these numbers?

For a couple of months (Sept/Oct), I was watching TV commercial after TV commercial telling me the CBO (which the commercial was proud to say was non-partisan) was predicting huge deficits if health care reform was enacted.

I could be wrong, but I suspect the CBO (according to some) has made a hard left turn.

JoeTheJuggler · 18th November 2009, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by DavidJames

For a couple of months (Sept/Oct), I was watching TV commercial after TV commercial telling me the CBO (which the commercial was proud to say was non-partisan) was predicting huge deficits if health care reform was enacted.

I could be wrong, but I suspect the CBO (according to some) has made a hard left turn.

I don't the CBO has become partisan. I think you just have to pay attention to who is making the TV ads that make claims about what the CBO says.

Even on this, if you just see the headlines that say the bill will cost $849 billion (example: Senate leader unveils $849 billion health care bill), you can get a misleading idea of what the CBO's assessment says.

MattusMaximus · 19th November 2009, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by daenku32

Accusations that CBO is a partisan store start in 3...2...1...

The non-partisan CBO is now part of the global socialist agenda to take over the "Real America^TM" and enslave us all. Run, hide your women & children, clutch your Bibles, and head to the hills with your guns!!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist

MattusMaximus · 19th November 2009, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Yes, they're talking about *maybe* beginning debate on Saturday.

So this is the bill that is the combination of the other 2 Senate bills (S1679 and S1796).

It's called the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and has been posted on the web:

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/p...e-care-act.pdf
ETA: I just realized that Unabogie just posted the same link.

However, I can't for the life of me get the file to open. Is it just me, or is there something wrong with it?

Where's MHaze? I'm sure this is part of the conspiracy of silence so they can add in pork without anyone knowing about it--despite the CBO evaluation. We *must* be chumps!

Yes, the fact that the Democrats are ramming health care reform through Congress so quickly is clearly evidence that they don't want anyone reading it...

... oh, wait

theprestige · 19th November 2009, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Yes, the fact that the Democrats are ramming health care reform through Congress so quickly is clearly evidence that they don't want anyone reading it...

... oh, wait

That's a good point.

I remember, back in July, when Nancy Pelosi said, "we have a supermajority and could push this bill through at any time, but even though the President wants it passed before the August recess, we'd like to give the American people at least another four months to read through the whole thing before we move forward".

Hrm.

Actually, I don't remember that at all, because that's not what happened in July. What happened in July was they had a dog's breakfast buffet of bills, none of which could meet even the low standard of a partisan supermajority, though FSM knows they sure did try to get it done by the August recess, and now, more than four months later, they still have a dog's breakfast buffet and they still can't scrape enough votes together to just start debating the current Senate offering, and about the best spin they can put on it is that the American people will have plenty of time to read it before it's passed.

But you're not going to fall for that spin, are you?

Oh, wait...

18th November 2009, 04:00 PM	#1
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660	CBO Says Senate Health Bill Will Shave $127 Billion off Deficit http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...er.php?ref=fpa Quote: The health care bill--which includes an opt-out public option--will require $849 billion over 10 years in new spending, to be paid for with cuts to Medicare, while reducing the deficit by $127 billion. In that time it will extend coverage to 31 million Americans--94 percent of citizens will be covered by 2019. Over the second 10 years, CBO projects even greater cost savings--up to $650 billion, with the caveat that after 10 years, their analyses become highly uncertain. CBO is non-partisan, isn't it? Any reason to doubt these numbers?
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660

18th November 2009, 04:04 PM	#2
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,490	no reason to doubt the numbers. I hope, that the state ability to opt-out of the public option, will satisfy Lieberman enough not to give the Republikkkans a filibuster. maybe a 5 year trigger for HMOs to lower rates should also be added for the public-option, in case Lieberman still says no. fingers crossed.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt." Last edited by parky76; 18th November 2009 at 04:05 PM.

18th November 2009, 04:04 PM	#3
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 5,306	Originally Posted by Unabogie http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...er.php?ref=fpa CBO is non-partisan, isn't it? Any reason to doubt these numbers? Typical politico talk-849 billion in new spending is a 127 billion "cost savings"...
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

18th November 2009, 04:32 PM	#4
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660	Originally Posted by rwguinn Typical politico talk-849 billion in new spending is a 127 billion "cost savings"... You don't seem to understand the bill. CBO says it will cut the deficit, not cut costs from the total cost of the bill. The reason is it makes cuts to the overages we currently pay to Medicare Advantage providers. That's money we're already spending that will be reduced. Which is why they (CBO) can state that although the bill costs money, it will save $127 billion more than it will spend.
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660

18th November 2009, 05:57 PM	#5
Puppycow Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 6,323	Obamacare will save $777 billion and insure 31 million Linky Quote: A Senate aide said the CBO also estimated the Senate plan will reduce the deficit by $127 billion over 10 years and $650 billion in the second decade, while cutting the number of uninsured by 31 million. This means that Obama is a fiscal conservative and people who oppose Obamacare are not. Also, three sevens is very auspicious!
	__________________ I can't come to bed yet, honey. Someone on the Internet is wrong. -XKCD Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous Religions are God's way of telling us that He doesn't exist. -Pat Condell

18th November 2009, 06:28 PM	#6
daenku32 Muse Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 748	Accusations that CBO is a partisan store start in 3...2...1...
daenku32 Muse Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 748

18th November 2009, 06:37 PM	#7
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660	http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159643 Come and join the party
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660

18th November 2009, 06:42 PM	#8
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660	The Senate has released their bill online. http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/p...e-care-act.pdf They don't plan to vote on it until Saturday. I wonder how many hours that is?
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660

18th November 2009, 06:49 PM	#9
Puppycow Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 6,323	Oops. I looked for a thread but didn't see it.
	__________________ I can't come to bed yet, honey. Someone on the Internet is wrong. -XKCD Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous Religions are God's way of telling us that He doesn't exist. -Pat Condell

18th November 2009, 06:53 PM	#10
Puppycow Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 6,323	Originally Posted by Unabogie The Senate has released their bill online. http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/p...e-care-act.pdf They don't plan to vote on it until Saturday. I wonder how many hours that is? The senate could vote on Saturday? I thought that this thing was supposed to drag on until early next year. Do you mean debate starts on Saturday?
	__________________ I can't come to bed yet, honey. Someone on the Internet is wrong. -XKCD Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous Religions are God's way of telling us that He doesn't exist. -Pat Condell

18th November 2009, 06:55 PM	#11
parky76 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,490	they have to vote on whether to start debating...i believe. and then they have to vote to vote.
	__________________ 9-11 Truther: "We don't need facts. We only need doubt."

18th November 2009, 07:01 PM	#12
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660	^^^^^ What he said.
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660

18th November 2009, 07:06 PM	#13
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 10,989	Yes, they're talking about maybe beginning debate on Saturday. So this is the bill that is the combination of the other 2 Senate bills (S1679 and S1796). It's called the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and has been posted on the web: http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/p...e-care-act.pdf ETA: I just realized that Unabogie just posted the same link. However, I can't for the life of me get the file to open. Is it just me, or is there something wrong with it? Where's MHaze? I'm sure this is part of the conspiracy of silence so they can add in pork without anyone knowing about it--despite the CBO evaluation. We must be chumps!
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons Last edited by JoeTheJuggler; 18th November 2009 at 07:09 PM.

18th November 2009, 07:08 PM	#14
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660	It opens fine for me using Firefox, and the latest Acrobat Reader.
Unabogie Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 660

18th November 2009, 07:13 PM	#15
Puppycow Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 6,323	Originally Posted by Unabogie It opens fine for me using Firefox, and the latest Acrobat Reader. Same here. Same browser too.
	__________________ I can't come to bed yet, honey. Someone on the Internet is wrong. -XKCD Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous Religions are God's way of telling us that He doesn't exist. -Pat Condell

18th November 2009, 07:27 PM	#16
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 10,989	I've got it now.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

18th November 2009, 07:40 PM	#17
tyr_13 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,018	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler Yes, they're talking about maybe beginning debate on Saturday. So this is the bill that is the combination of the other 2 Senate bills (S1679 and S1796). It's called the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and has been posted on the web: http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/p...e-care-act.pdf ETA: I just realized that Unabogie just posted the same link. However, I can't for the life of me get the file to open. Is it just me, or is there something wrong with it? Where's MHaze? I'm sure this is part of the conspiracy of silence so they can add in pork without anyone knowing about it--despite the CBO evaluation. We must be chumps! I don't think we'll hear from a lot of the opponents of this until they, the radio show hosts, television 'opinion' hosts, and bloggers have a chance to go through the CBO report. Then they can start moving goalposts and telling us how it really has nothing to do with the costs.
tyr_13 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,018	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Look at the puppy...the puppy is good.

18th November 2009, 08:27 PM	#18
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,091	The mammogram debate started rolling today. Coming to a thread near you....
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,091	Last edited by Tailgater; 18th November 2009 at 08:29 PM.

18th November 2009, 10:21 PM	#19
DavidJames Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,746	Originally Posted by Unabogie http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...er.php?ref=fpa CBO is non-partisan, isn't it? Any reason to doubt these numbers? For a couple of months (Sept/Oct), I was watching TV commercial after TV commercial telling me the CBO (which the commercial was proud to say was non-partisan) was predicting huge deficits if health care reform was enacted. I could be wrong, but I suspect the CBO (according to some) has made a hard left turn.
DavidJames Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,746	__________________ Talk about quality audio/video/home theater on a budget here. Blogging on my hobbies including The Android Adventure here.

18th November 2009, 10:29 PM	#20
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 10,989	Originally Posted by DavidJames For a couple of months (Sept/Oct), I was watching TV commercial after TV commercial telling me the CBO (which the commercial was proud to say was non-partisan) was predicting huge deficits if health care reform was enacted. I could be wrong, but I suspect the CBO (according to some) has made a hard left turn. I don't the CBO has become partisan. I think you just have to pay attention to who is making the TV ads that make claims about what the CBO says. Even on this, if you just see the headlines that say the bill will cost $849 billion (example: Senate leader unveils $849 billion health care bill), you can get a misleading idea of what the CBO's assessment says.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

19th November 2009, 08:09 AM	#21
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by daenku32 Accusations that CBO is a partisan store start in 3...2...1... The non-partisan CBO is now part of the global socialist agenda to take over the "Real America^TM" and enslave us all. Run, hide your women & children, clutch your Bibles, and head to the hills with your guns!!! Sorry, I couldn't resist
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher Critical Thinking Education Group (CTEG) Chicago's First Skepticamp: Skepchicamp - March 6, 2010 Secular & Skeptic Help for Haiti

19th November 2009, 08:10 AM	#22
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler Yes, they're talking about maybe beginning debate on Saturday. So this is the bill that is the combination of the other 2 Senate bills (S1679 and S1796). It's called the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and has been posted on the web: http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/p...e-care-act.pdf ETA: I just realized that Unabogie just posted the same link. However, I can't for the life of me get the file to open. Is it just me, or is there something wrong with it? Where's MHaze? I'm sure this is part of the conspiracy of silence so they can add in pork without anyone knowing about it--despite the CBO evaluation. We must be chumps! Yes, the fact that the Democrats are ramming health care reform through Congress so quickly is clearly evidence that they don't want anyone reading it... ... oh, wait
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher Critical Thinking Education Group (CTEG) Chicago's First Skepticamp: Skepchicamp - March 6, 2010 Secular & Skeptic Help for Haiti

19th November 2009, 12:13 PM	#23
theprestige Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,096	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Yes, the fact that the Democrats are ramming health care reform through Congress so quickly is clearly evidence that they don't want anyone reading it... ... oh, wait That's a good point. I remember, back in July, when Nancy Pelosi said, "we have a supermajority and could push this bill through at any time, but even though the President wants it passed before the August recess, we'd like to give the American people at least another four months to read through the whole thing before we move forward". Hrm. Actually, I don't remember that at all, because that's not what happened in July. What happened in July was they had a dog's breakfast buffet of bills, none of which could meet even the low standard of a partisan supermajority, though FSM knows they sure did try to get it done by the August recess, and now, more than four months later, they still have a dog's breakfast buffet and they still can't scrape enough votes together to just start debating the current Senate offering, and about the best spin they can put on it is that the American people will have plenty of time to read it before it's passed. But you're not going to fall for that spin, are you? Oh, wait...