Are there any witches here?

[BTMO]

Some time ago, I saw an interview with a witch on television complaining that popular depictions of broomstick riding are wrong - the handle of the broom is normally at the front and the bristles are at the back (think of the opening sequence of "Bewitched").

The person being interviewed claims this is wrong - that brooms go the other way - bristles at the front.

Unfortunately, I don't recall the interviewer asking the obvious question - "can you demonstrate this for me?"

So what's the deal, witches? Any of you willing to step up to the mark and demonstrate your broom-riding skills?

(Yeah, it's late here...)

[Apathia]

I'm sure you can find some women here who have ridden guys with all the inteligence of a mop head.

(Perhaps this will shed some indirect light on the witches riding broom sticks bit of folklore.)

[Stray Cat]

I've tried it with the broom stick both ways round and I can categorically state that I couldn't 'take off' from either position.

So I'm guessing that the depiction of broomstick riding is wrong simply because it never happened.

[Akhenaten]

According a documentary I watched about this very subject, the bristles definitely point rearwards to aid aerodynamic efficiency, paticularly on models such as the Nimbus 2000™.

[Skeptic Guy]

Depends on the gear box. If all of the forward gears are stripped then it may only function in reverse. You'd have to get it up on a lift to see for sure.

[Nogbad]

According to an article I read the practice was to coat the broom handle with an hallucinogenic paste (fungus based) and then straddle the thing. Underwear not yet being invented the direct contact of broom and paste with the delicate nether regions had a remarkable effect and the sensation was akin to flying with the added benefit of obtaining visions from the spirit world.

A cynic might say there was little else to do on a wet Tuesday night in medieval Europe...and they might be right. One might see why such practices attracted the prurient interest of the Church - ever eager to stamp out "that sort of thing*".


* see Father Ted.

Oh, in the above the direction of bristles would be academic but given the state they were in, health and safety might have played a part in it. Certainly one would want any potential broom handle splinters to be pointing the right way.

[Mojo]

"Careful now!"

[Kell]

Broomstick riding? Talk about a logical phallusy.

[Nogbad]

Originally Posted by Mojo

"Careful now!"

[desertgal]

Are there any witches here?

Well, I'm fairly cranky most of the time...so I get dibs as the resident witch.

[gypsyfish]

I picked up a hitch hiking witch once. She touched my knee and we turned into a motel.

[jhunter1163]

This reminds me of a line from MST3K:

Witch: Get on the shovel so I can put you in the oven!
Hero: How? I've never sat on a shovel before.
Mike Nelson: Not the flat part, anyway.

[Eyeron]

I got turned into a newt.

[jhunter1163]

A newt?!

[Blackdog]

I turned into a driveway.

[Captain.Sassy]

... I got better...

[Akhenaten]

Buuuuuurn 'er anyway!

[dogjones]

As owl us skeptics say, to witch, to woo.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by Blackdog

I turned into a driveway.

no, you're a speed bump

[Blackdog]

Edit..not worth it.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally Posted by dogjones

As owl us skeptics say, to witch, to woo.

Isn't that, "to whom"?

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by Blackdog

Edit..not worth it.

precisely, move along..... SB

[Brian-M]

Originally Posted by Nogbad

According to an article I read the practice was to coat the broom handle with an hallucinogenic paste (fungus based) and then straddle the thing. Underwear not yet being invented the direct contact of broom and paste with the delicate nether regions had a remarkable effect and the sensation was akin to flying with the added benefit of obtaining visions from the spirit world.

I read something similar in a non-fiction book about medieval witches (I think it was called called "How Witches Ride Broomsticks", but I couldn't find a reference on Google). According to the book the handle was smeared with the paste and deliberately to apply a small quantity of the dangerously potent hallucinogenic paste to the mucus-membranes of the vagina where it could be absorbed into the bloodstream.

The authors didn't give complete details about how to make the paste (too dangerous, they claimed).

The expression "riding a broomstick" was probably just an euphemism, not a description. (And if they were using those short-handled broomsticks they'd have looked pretty silly trying to straddle them. )

[EHocking]

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

I've tried it with the broom stick both ways round and I can categorically state that I couldn't 'take off' from either position.

... that's because you should have been using garden equipment, not household equipment.

The Canadian gear is most effective, built by the McKenzie Brothers.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by BTMO

Some time ago, I saw an interview with a witch on television complaining that popular depictions of broomstick riding are wrong - the handle of the broom is normally at the front and the bristles are at the back (think of the opening sequence of "Bewitched").

The person being interviewed claims this is wrong - that brooms go the other way - bristles at the front.

Unfortunately, I don't recall the interviewer asking the obvious question - "can you demonstrate this for me?"

So what's the deal, witches? Any of you willing to step up to the mark and demonstrate your broom-riding skills?

(Yeah, it's late here...)

Let me check...

No, sorry, I weigh more than a duck.

[Alley Cat]

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

I've tried it with the broom stick both ways round and I can categorically state that I couldn't 'take off' from either position.

So I'm guessing that the depiction of broomstick riding is wrong simply because it never happened. http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g.../goodwitch.gif

It's a common myth that the broomstick flies. It doesn't. The witch flies and merely uses the broomstick to sit on for longer journeys. She could just as easily use a shovel but that would mean going outside to get one, whereas the broomstick is always propped inside the door of the hovel so is more convenient. To get a more exciting ride she would rub Fly Agaric over the broomstick for some inflight entertainment en route to her destination.

[Tricky]

No true witch rides anything but a besom. (I have it on good authority.)

[Fnord]

According to folklore* the bristles of the besom / broom were to point forward, so as to provide a place for the witch's familiar to ride and guide. If the witch had no familiar, then a candle would provide illumination.



(*My cousin the witch told me this, although she too declined to give a practical demonstration...)

[Shrike]

Is this the same discussion as they have on car fora about front or rear wheel drive?
Will eventually some witch chime in with the advantages of bristles front and rear?

[Damien Evans]

I've had people think I'm a witch because I listen to heavy metal...

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by Damien Evans

I've had people think I'm a witch because I listen to heavy metal...

Do you ever say things like this?

I'm the day, I'm the day
I can show you the way
And look I'm right beside you
I'm the night, Im the night
I'm the dark and the light
With eyes that see inside you

Maybe you ARE a witch.

[Cainkane1]

I like witch bottles. Get an impressive looking bottle. Fill it full or your urine, put brass pins through felt hearts, a few new coins, fingernail parings and hair clippings and put these in the bottle also.. Seal said bottle and bury it upside down outside your front door. A few centuries later someone digs it up and has a nice relic and you put it there.

[Vortigern99]

Originally Posted by Fnord

According to folklore* the bristles of the besom / broom were to point forward, so as to provide a place for the witch's familiar to ride and guide. If the witch had no familiar, then a candle would provide illumination.



(*My cousin the witch told me this, although she too declined to give a practical demonstration...)

My wife and I used to study and practice Wicca, and I've investigated its origins at some length. I have never come across the idea that witches of ancient, medieval or modern Europe rode/ride their broom with the bristles forward. In fact, two 17th-century engravings printed in Greenwood's Encyclopedia of Magic & Witchcraft show just the opposite: witches riding their brooms with the bristles facing backward.

This sounds like a modern attempt by Wiccan adherents at distancing their new/old religion from popular or folkloric conceptions, in order to distinguish Wicca from the traditional Christian, villainous characterizations. The problem is, what is their source for this information? Where is it written, and by whom, that witches ride/rode their brooms with the bristles forward?

[Stray Cat]

Just found this while looking for something else: Broomstick riding article

[Cuddles]

Originally Posted by Brian-M

I read something similar in a non-fiction book about medieval witches (I think it was called called "How Witches Ride Broomsticks", but I couldn't find a reference on Google). According to the book the handle was smeared with the paste and deliberately to apply a small quantity of the dangerously potent hallucinogenic paste to the mucus-membranes of the vagina where it could be absorbed into the bloodstream.

To be honest, I find this very unlikely. Firstly, why would anyone do that? If you're going to be applying paste anywhere, why would they use a broomstick? there are any number of much easier, more convenient ways of doing so with less risk of splinters. The whole idea of getting a broomstick involved is just utterly stupid.

Secondly, there are all kinds of drugs and ways of taking them around today, but as far as I am aware this is not one that is ever used. If you want to apply something to your mucus membranes, you put it up your nose. If this was such a popular method of taking drugs, why wouldn't it still be in use today?

Finally, there's the problem that witches were reported to fly broomsticks by other people. Obviously they would deny doing so themselves, since it would earn them a quick trip to a nice warm stake. Why would anyone claim to have seen a witch flying, when the only person that may have thought so, assuming all the rest is actually true, would be the witch herself?

Sorry, but I just don't buy it. The parts taken separately don't make any sense, and taken together they just don't fit with each other.

[Vortigern99]

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

Just found this while looking for something else: Broomstick riding article

There you have it. 99% of available medieval and later artwork which shows witches riding broomsticks depict the bristles facing backward, just as Potter and Samantha Stevens and the Wicked Witch ride them.

Yet another example of Wiccans/pagans making unsupported claims about the origins and ancient practices of their religion.

[Pup]

Originally Posted by Cuddles

To be honest, I find this very unlikely. Firstly, why would anyone do that? If you're going to be applying paste anywhere, why would they use a broomstick? there are any number of much easier, more convenient ways of doing so with less risk of splinters. The whole idea of getting a broomstick involved is just utterly stupid.

Secondly, there are all kinds of drugs and ways of taking them around today, but as far as I am aware this is not one that is ever used. If you want to apply something to your mucus membranes, you put it up your nose. If this was such a popular method of taking drugs, why wouldn't it still be in use today?

Finally, there's the problem that witches were reported to fly broomsticks by other people. Obviously they would deny doing so themselves, since it would earn them a quick trip to a nice warm stake. Why would anyone claim to have seen a witch flying, when the only person that may have thought so, assuming all the rest is actually true, would be the witch herself?

Sorry, but I just don't buy it. The parts taken separately don't make any sense, and taken together they just don't fit with each other.

Just approaching this from a logical/illogical standpoint, I'd respectfully disagree that any of the above are illogical.

Put yourself in the place of a woman who wants to, ahem, no polite way to say this, find a penile substitute to masturbate with in a pre-industrial-revolution household. A broomstick is a handy object of about the right size and shape. No chance of splinters with a well-used broomstick. It's warmer-feeling than anything of iron, and easier to clean than an uncorked bottle-top and no chance of losing the cork from a corked bottle.

Applying an appropriate drug to the dildo would indeed enhance the masturbatory experience because it would be absorbed by the mucous membranes. I can't see why it wouldn't work, medically. Popular drug delivery methods change with fashion--there's a lot more smoking now than 18th-century-style snuff-using, for example, though tobacco delivery would still work in the mucous membranes of the nose.

For any belief like witchcraft to take hold and spread, there needs to be communication about its attributes. I think it's too simplistic to assume that no witch ever talked about her experiences with anyone who would spread the information to the non-witch community, or that no one would be fooled into believing fantastic stories or even claiming to have seen witches fly themselves. Consider how many people testify to seeing bigfoot, UFOs, ghosts, and other cultural phenomenon today. If flying witches were considered as "real" in one's culture as UFOs are today, I expect a glimpse of a crow could be easily misinterpreted to what the viewer wanted to see as well as an airplane or weather balloon.

Scroll down here to the section called "flying ointments." I don't know if the manuscripts quoted there actual exist and don't have enough context knowledge about that time period to judge the veracity of the site.

But the logicality of it all seems compelling enough, that I can't tell whether the believability itself is what has kept the explanation alive (like those annoying forwarded emails that incorrectly trace the origin of everything back to some literal behavior or acronym) or whether the explanation is actually true.

[Fnord]

Originally Posted by Vortigern99

...This sounds like a modern attempt by Wiccan adherents at distancing their new/old religion from popular or folkloric conceptions, in order to distinguish Wicca from the traditional Christian, villainous characterizations. The problem is, what is their source for this information? Where is it written, and by whom, that witches ride/rode their brooms with the bristles forward?

I haven't the vaguest idea. As far as being a "witch," my cousin is as much a witch as any other potion-selling, card-shuffling, crystal-gazing new-age storefront "psychic."

She makes good money at it, though.

[Dancing David]

Excuse me but some people have absolutely no idea what the brooms prior to modern times even look like. I don't know when the wooden handle thing and broom straw came about but most 'brooms' would be a bunch of sticks tied together with the fine branch ends used for sweeping.

So definitly not a good phallic object.

I prefer airplanes myself, most modern witches do...

WETA: short search, straw brrom allegedly were invernted in the 19th century by the Shakers and I was wrong while I hav eseen many primitive brooms made of branches bound together, there are a number of paintings and the like from the 1400s that show branches bound to the end of a handle.

Not that you would want to use that as a dildo.

[Pup]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

most 'brooms' would be a bunch of sticks tied together with the fine branch ends used for sweeping.

So definitly not a good phallic object.

Not sure I follow. The kind with the sticks tied to a central wooden pole seems to go back quite a few centuries. The pole would be smoothed to be easy on the hands and would become even more smooth from use over time.

This page has links to several pictures showing both kinds, this being an example of what I'm picturing from the 15th century. I agree that this kind wouldn't work so well.

ETA: I cross-posted with your editing.