Do you Reject the Holidays as an Atheist?

[truethat]

I'm wondering about the hegemony of Christmas in which we atheists find ourselves immersed.

Ironically Christmas has always been a holiday that disappoints and yet each year I strive to make it work.

This year I'm having Christmas party on December 12th. PM me if you live in NYC and like to come. I'd love to have a smattering of atheists there.

But I'm wondering about the implications of my desire to celebrate a holiday with my family that sort of goes against the traditions I am building for myself.

Last year I decided to forgo Christmas with the kids and we served at a homeless shelter instead. That was a disaster as far as my kids were concerned.

Curious if others have given this thought?

[Darat]

It appears that my views on this have not changed much in 6 years:

Originally Posted by Darat

Well I celebrate a very different non Christian based festival on 24th, 25th & 26th December.

People knocking on the door singing inspirational songs.

Putting up a green pine tree, decorated with bright and shiny things, putting bright lights inside and outside my house.

Giving and receiving lots of nice presents.

A fantastic meal with a turkey and winter vegetables, a fantastic fruit cake and a wonderful plum pudding.

And having a few days with friends and family.

I would hate to be having one of those Christian celebrations. You know what I mean, no singing, children being beaten, having to eat umble pie all the solemn praying and the like Christmas must be really boring if you are a Christian...

[psychictv]

No. Christmas is a secular holiday despite the unfortunate name. Christians have merely hijacked what was originally a winter festival. Just remember that Christmas is not about christ, it's about Santa, Rudolph, Christmas trees, and shopping. All of the materialism that Christians point to as a debasement of the holiday, is actually what it's all about. I think Atheists should embrace that, run with it, and not let Christians steal our cultural traditions from us.

[Soapy Sam]

Some here say they celebrate the birth of Isaac Newton on December 25th. Some celebrate midwinter, harking back to pre-Christian celebrations. Others just get sloshed as usual.
Christmas wasn't a public holiday in Scotland until mid 20th century- New Year was.
Iĺl be working both Christmas and New year, so I don't care much .
Most holidays are just commercial spending sprees these days anyway.

[Madalch]

I see Christmas as more of a cultural thing than a Christian thing. I celebrate it, wish people Merry Christmas, and don't give a smeg about the religious aspects.

[Perfume V]

I celebrate Christmas as a drunken family get-together primarily. I recently started a new job at a care home which, by its very nature, obviously cannot close for holidays and was told I could earn more money by working bank holidays and other unsociable hours. The only thing that kept me from saying I'd work Christmas was the thought of missing one of the few occasions in which my family is all under the same roof enjoying themselves.

[six7s]

Originally Posted by truethat

Curious if others have given this thought?

Seems so!

wilk4.com Politically-Correct Christmas Holiday Parties

Quote:

FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
RE: Christmas Party
DATE: December 1

I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will take place on December 23, starting at noon in the banquet room at Luigi's Open Pit Barbecue. No-host bar, but plenty of eggnog! We'll have a small band playing traditional carols...feel free to sing along. And don't be surprised if our CEO shows up dressed as Santa Claus! A Christmas tree will be lit at 1:00 P.M. Exchange of gifts among employees can be done at that time, however, no gift should be over $10.00 to make the giving of gifts easy for everyone's pockets. This gathering is only for employees! A special announcement will be made by our CEO at that time!

Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Patty

FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
RE: Holiday Party
DATE: December 2

In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our Jewish employees. We recognize that Chanukah is an important holiday which often coincides with Christmas, though unfortunately not this year. However, from now on we're calling it our "Holiday Party". The same policy applies to employees who are celebrating Kwanzaa at this time. There will be no Christmas tree present. No, Christmas carols sung. We will have other types of music for your enjoyment.

Happy now?

Happy Holidays to you and your family.
Patty

<snip/>

FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All #%&$**@ Employees
RE: The %#*&^%@*%^Holiday Party
DATE: December 10

I have no #%&*@*^ idea what the announcement is all about. What the %#&^!@ do I care... I KNOW WHAT I AM GOING TO GET!!!!!!!!!!!! You change your address now and you are dead!!!!!!!!!!!! No more changes of address will be allowed in my office. Try to come in and change your address, I will have you hung from the ceiling in the warehouse!!!!!!!!!!!

Vegetarians!?!?!? I've had it with you people!!! We're going to keep this party at Luigi's Open Pit Barbecue whether you like it or not, so you can sit quietly at the table furthest from the "grill of death," as you so quaintly put it, and you'll get your #$%^&*! salad bar, including hydroponic tomatoes. But you know, they have feelings, too. Tomatoes scream when you slice them. I've heard them scream. I'm hearing them scream right now! HA!

I hope you all have a rotten holiday! Drive drunk and die you hear me!!!!!!!!!!!

The ßitch from HËLL!!!!!!!!

FROM: Terri Bishop, Acting Human Resources Director
DATE: December 14
RE: Patty Lewis and Holiday Party

I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Patty Lewis a speedy recovery from her stress-related illness and I'll continue to forward your cards to her at the sanitarium. In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our Holiday Party and give everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with full pay.

Happy Holidays!

[Marduk]

I don't hold with these new fangled religious celebrations, I'm still doing Zagmuk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagmuk
its a completely different type of 12 day end/new year winter festival celebration typified by trees (of life) and giving presents (as tribute), nothing like christian ritual at all.
I'm looking for volunteers to be this years King if anyones interested.

[Rasmus]

Originally Posted by truethat

This year I'm having Christmas party on December 12th. PM me if you live in NYC and like to come. I'd love to have a smattering of atheists there.

But I'm wondering about the implications of my desire to celebrate a holiday with my family that sort of goes against the traditions I am building for myself.

So, why are you doing it?

Quote:

Last year I decided to forgo Christmas with the kids and we served at a homeless shelter instead. That was a disaster as far as my kids were concerned.

Why were you doing that?

I could understand if someone just decided to not take part in anything related to Christmas - fair enough. But if you reject everything, what makes you think you need a substitute? And then why are you choosing such a piss-poor substitute?

"Hey kids, instead of you getting tons of tons of presents, I am going to make you work - won't that be nice?" Sweet. And you're actually suprised that didn't work out?

Quote:

Curious if others have given this thought?

My Christmas is entirely secular, just like the rest of my life. There's a few dinners and parties with friends and colleagues; I will meet with my family for more great food and a few presents. Tons of fun, no religion in sight.

If you want to reject Christianity, then why are you allowing it to still dictate your life?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Sorry, I couldn't find this with English dubbing or subtitles. The couple'S TV is broken and they spend the evening arguing about how bad the TV program is and what they should rather be doing. There is one section where they accuse each other of looking at the broken TV despite it's being broken, yet neither of them actually finds anything else worth doing or looking at.

It ends with the following piece of dialogue:

Her: We could go to bed early.
Him: I always go to bed after the late news.
Her: But the TV is broken!
Him: I will not permit a broken TV to dictate when I have to go to bed!

Well, no, he doesn't. He allows the TV to dictate his life, whether it's broken or not. And I see many atheists allowing the church to dictate their lifes in much the same way: They should be free to do whatever they please, but they subject themselves to same arbitrary rules even if they apply their reverse forms.

[truethat]

Originally Posted by Rasmus

Why were you doing that?

I could understand if someone just decided to not take part in anything related to Christmas - fair enough. But if you reject everything, what makes you think you need a substitute? And then why are you choosing such a piss-poor substitute?

"Hey kids, instead of you getting tons of tons of presents, I am going to make you work - won't that be nice?" Sweet. And you're actually suprised that didn't work out?

.

A. I don't reject everything???

B. Maybe because I'm trying to teach my kids more important things than sitting in a pile of capitalistic hooplah on the holidays? Ya know?

[pgwenthold]

Originally Posted by truethat

I'm wondering about the hegemony of Christmas in which we atheists find ourselves immersed.

Ironically Christmas has always been a holiday that disappoints and yet each year I strive to make it work.

This year I'm having Christmas party on December 12th. PM me if you live in NYC and like to come. I'd love to have a smattering of atheists there.

But I'm wondering about the implications of my desire to celebrate a holiday with my family that sort of goes against the traditions I am building for myself.

Last year I decided to forgo Christmas with the kids and we served at a homeless shelter instead. That was a disaster as far as my kids were concerned.

Curious if others have given this thought?

Celebrating Christmas even though I don't believe Jesus ever really lived (certainly not the bibilical dude) gives me no more pause than celebrating Saturday, despite the fact I do not believe in the god Saturn, or Thursday, although I don't believe in Thor.

I'll do what I want.

[psychictv]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Celebrating Christmas even though I don't believe Jesus ever really lived (certainly not the bibilical dude) gives me no more pause than celebrating Saturday, despite the fact I do not believe in the god Saturn, or Thursday, although I don't believe in Thor.

I'll do what I want.

Haha, awesome analogy.

[six7s]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Celebrating Christmas even though I don't believe Jesus ever really lived (certainly not the bibilical dude) gives me no more pause than celebrating Saturday, despite the fact I do not believe in the god Saturn, or Thursday, although I don't believe in Thor.

I'll do what I want.

Nominated

[Agular]

Originally Posted by truethat

A. I don't reject everything???

B. Maybe because I'm trying to teach my kids more important things than sitting in a pile of capitalistic hooplah on the holidays? Ya know?

That's pretty cool, but that's not an easy choice as you discovered. I guess it depends on whether the kids "get it" and if they are comfortable enough to explain what they did to their peers.

[EverLastingGodStopper]

Even before I had kids, when I was single, I decorated for and celebrated Christmas. I usually call it Giftmas. I used to buy presents for my cats. Then I got married and had kids, and every year we travel to husband's family's place to celebrate with them. It's all about food, family, and fun. Not to mention adding lots of pretty indoor and outdoor lights to the scenery during the darkest month of the year.

[truethat]

Originally Posted by Agular

That's pretty cool, but that's not an easy choice as you discovered. I guess it depends on whether the kids "get it" and if they are comfortable enough to explain what they did to their peers.

My kids "get it" it's just that serving sweet potatoes mush to homeless drunks that passed out halfway through eating and retched the food into their facial hair while snoring was less than Hollywood.

I won't do it again either. LOL

[Bloodtoes]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Celebrating Christmas even though I don't believe Jesus ever really lived (certainly not the bibilical dude) gives me no more pause than celebrating Saturday, despite the fact I do not believe in the god Saturn, or Thursday, although I don't believe in Thor.

I'll do what I want.

This. =)

Also, the greeting I will most often use during that time of the year is a simple "have a happy new year."

[truethat]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Celebrating Christmas even though I don't believe Jesus ever really lived (certainly not the bibilical dude) gives me no more pause than celebrating Saturday, despite the fact I do not believe in the god Saturn, or Thursday, although I don't believe in Thor.

I'll do what I want.

Love this!

[WhiteLion]

Originally Posted by truethat

But I'm wondering about the implications of my desire to celebrate a holiday with my family that sort of goes against the traditions I am building for myself.

Partaking in traditional 'feasts' of ones region and culture doesn't necessarily mean one ascribes in any devoted fashion to religious beliefs sometimes associated with such feasts.

I grew up in an agnostic household and the extended family were generally just lip-service christians, if even that (which most swedes enrolled in the Swedish Church are).
We celebrated Christmas for sure, in a secular fashion like most swedes. That means we do not say prayers, give thoughts and words to/about Jesus etc. Allthough, some visit the early-hour "christmas chants" at the local church, not because of their religious beliefs but because it's warming, beautiful, soothing and pleasent thing. I've gone several times myself, my wife loves 'em but she's not a christian.

We also celebrate Easter, with the given painted easter eggs and children going from door to door, dressed up as witches, asking for candy and/or giving eggs and so forth. While Halloween is a relatively recent holiday here in Sweden, we have a long history of keeping the All Saint's Eve (occurs around the same time as Halloween, give or take a week) which I believe is originally related to Halloween in some fashion as a catholic holiday of remembering the dead and the saints.
Obviously, no one is thinking about saints anymore, not even the christians since they are predominantely lutheran protestants. No, what we do is to visit the graveyards and light candels at the graves of our loved ones. That's about it. Not long after we celebrate the day of St Lucia, where classes in school gets to dress up in white cheats as star bearers or ginger-bread men.

Then we have Midsummer's Eve, were we erect the purposely phallic Midsummer Pole and sometimes dance around it, eating fish and fresh potatoes with a nice 'snapps/schnapps'.

For most parts, none of the formentioned holidays are celebrated as a conscious act of expressing religious rejoice. It's just tradition, it's just fun, it's just heartwarming joy of getting together with ones family and friends for reasons old as the hill. Mythos historically brings wonderful opportunities for people to bond, whereas pragmatism and reason unfortunately offer less. But... the latter does not exclude the former, you do not have to believe in something a lot of people who still keep such feasts stopped truly believing in ages ago anyway.
That's how it is for me and most likely for most swedes. And no, Gravy. I'm not talking about rutabagas.

[Marduk]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Celebrating Christmas even though I don't believe Jesus ever really lived (certainly not the bibilical dude) gives me no more pause than celebrating Saturday, despite the fact I do not believe in the god Saturn, or Thursday, although I don't believe in Thor.

I'll do what I want.

How often do you celebrate saturdays and thursdays then ?
Enquiring minds need to know

[six7s]

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[James the True]

I've always looked at Christmas as a celebration of life, family and friends. That's the only religion I've ever needed.

James the True

[RandFan]

I revel in it. I love it. The music. The imagery. The festive atmosphere. I just love it.



!!!!APPEAL TO AUTHORITY ALERT!!!!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

If the guy who wrote The God Delusion can celebrate Christmas then so can I. So there.

God bless us. Every one.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by Rasmus

So, why are you doing it?

Why were you doing that?

Well, no, he doesn't. He allows the TV to dictate his life, whether it's broken or not. And I see many atheists allowing the church to dictate their lifes in much the same way: They should be free to do whatever they please, but they subject themselves to same arbitrary rules even if they apply their reverse forms.

I'm not sure that you have justified your argument. Where I live Christmas is everywhere. On TV, on the radio, in the stores, on the stores, etc., etc..

It's my culture. A great big part of it. I'm an atheist but I am also a cultural Christian. Sure I can ignore it but I can't pretend that it isn't there. I'm not going to be the grouch when I'm invited to parties or told "have a Merry Christmas".

I lived in a largely Hispanic community when I was first married. We partied hard on Cinco de Mayo. And I'm not Hispanic. So sue me. When in Rome and all that jazz....

My wife doesn't care much for the religious aspect and isn't a big fan of the religious overtones but she is respectful and she also wants to share in the fun. She doesn't act the grouch either and we've made plans to celebrate Christmas. We will have a tree and decorations (we got rid of or nativity scene). But all the rest can stay. It's largely secular.

BTW: It's not conventional wisdom that Christ was born in December. December is the time of many pagan holidays. So Christians don't really own it.

[Rasmus]

Originally Posted by RandFan

I'm not sure that you have justified your argument. Where I live Christmas is everywhere. On TV, on the radio, in the stores, on the stores, etc., etc..

It's my culture. A great big part of it. I'm an atheist but I am also a cultural Christian. Sure I can ignore it but I can't pretend that it isn't there. I'm not going to be the grouch when I'm invited to parties or told "have a Merry Christmas".

I may not have been clear enough.

I enjoy Christmas myself. I am looking forward to going home and meet my parents, in fact.

I think truethat is being grouchy, though - teaching his kids lessons instead of celebrating seems like a grouchy thing to do to me. And that is what I think is allowing the church to dictate his life.

He could teach the same lessons all year long, but he decided to do it instead of christmas.

I see nothing wring with celebrating it, and nothing wrong with not celebrating it, either. But if you don't celebrate and make a huge issue out of it, you might as well admit that it's just as much about christmas as the celebratuions would be. (And if you are all about christmas, personally I think you could pick the option thats more fun.)

Merry christmas!

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by Rasmus

I may not have been clear enough.

It's probably the chip on my shoulder. Let me re-read your post.

Wait a minute. You said:

Quote:

My Christmas is entirely secular, just like the rest of my life.

Nope. You were clear enough. The problem was mine. Sorry.

Quote:

I enjoy Christmas myself. I am looking forward to going home and meet my parents, in fact.

I think truethat is being grouchy, though - teaching his kids lessons instead of celebrating seems like a grouchy thing to do to me. And that is what I think is allowing the church to dictate his life.

He could teach the same lessons all year long, but he decided to do it instead of christmas.

I see nothing wring with celebrating it, and nothing wrong with not celebrating it, either. But if you don't celebrate and make a huge issue out of it, you might as well admit that it's just as much about christmas as the celebratuions would be. (And if you are all about christmas, personally I think you could pick the option thats more fun.)

Merry christmas!

Cool.

[arthwollipot]

I seriously can't stand the trappings of christmas - the decorations, the santas, and most especially the carols oh god the carols... but I've always enjoyed the purely secular experience of getting together with family and friends.

[Damien Evans]

Originally Posted by Madalch

I see Christmas as more of a cultural thing than a Christian thing. I celebrate it, wish people Merry Christmas, and don't give a smeg about the religious aspects.

What he said.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by truethat

I'm wondering about the hegemony of Christmas in which we atheists find ourselves immersed.

Ironically Christmas has always been a holiday that disappoints and yet each year I strive to make it work.

This year I'm having Christmas party on December 12th. PM me if you live in NYC and like to come. I'd love to have a smattering of atheists there.

But I'm wondering about the implications of my desire to celebrate a holiday with my family that sort of goes against the traditions I am building for myself.

Last year I decided to forgo Christmas with the kids and we served at a homeless shelter instead. That was a disaster as far as my kids were concerned.

Curious if others have given this thought?

For the kids, age may have a lot to do with it. Kids are neat but stuff has an allure - as does doing neat stuff that others are also doing. Hopefully they will pick up helping others as they grow up. I have no problem with kids enjoying the holidays - I just avoid the Jesus track - and when I had a beard, around christmastime a number suspected me of having a secret identity if you get my drift. Homeless shelters can be scary for little ones!

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by Madalch

I see Christmas as more of a cultural thing than a Christian thing. I celebrate it, wish people Merry Christmas, and don't give a smeg about the religious aspects.

As a pagan atheist I agree, it is a cultural celebration, the dark days and the hope for the return of summer.

Brrr, not that we have had an ass cracker of a winter in a while but still, cold and dark.

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I seriously can't stand the trappings of christmas - the decorations, the santas, and most especially the carols oh god the carols... but I've always enjoyed the purely secular experience of getting together with family and friends.

Hmm, I like the decorations and the good food, not the bad music.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

As a pagan atheist I agree, it is a cultural celebration, the dark days and the hope for the return of summer.

Brrr, not that we have had an ass cracker of a winter in a while but still, cold and dark.

Not here it's not. Bright and hot, and perfect pool/beach weather.

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by Rasmus

I may not have been clear enough.

I think truethat is being grouchy, though - teaching his kids lessons instead of celebrating seems like a grouchy thing to do to me. And that is what I think is allowing the church to dictate his life.

He could teach the same lessons all year long, but he decided to do it instead of christmas.

Psst, truethat is a girl.

Don't call her dude either.

[EverLastingGodStopper]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

Hmm, I like the decorations and the good food, not the bad music.

I looooovvve the bad music. My family does not. tee hee

[ve2vfd]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I seriously can't stand the trappings of christmas - the decorations, the santas, and most especially the carols oh god the carols... but I've always enjoyed the purely secular experience of getting together with family and friends.

Hear hear!

I'm very much a grinch at Xmas and you won't find a tree, light or even a card in my place. But I do enjoy getting together with my family and exchanging gifts (I don't like receiving, but do love giving).

Pat

[Safe-Keeper]

I will celebrate Christmas (or rather Yule) this year, as every year. Can't refrain from celebrating it when my family does. Also, if Christians could start celebrating Yule when it had nothing to do with their beliefs, then so can I.

[ve2vfd]

Why not celebrate "Lets exchange presents" day?

Ah what the heck, it's christmas (notice the non capitalized c) and even being a hardcore atheist I like it that way... it's not "the holidays" and I don't wish people "seasons greetings"... it's merry xmas y'all!

Pat

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by psychictv

No. Christmas is a secular holiday despite the unfortunate name. Christians have merely hijacked what was originally a winter festival. Just remember that Christmas is not about christ, it's about Santa, Rudolph, Christmas trees, and shopping. All of the materialism that Christians point to as a debasement of the holiday, is actually what it's all about. I think Atheists should embrace that, run with it, and not let Christians steal our cultural traditions from us.

This is how almost everyone thinks of it here in Sweden. No one has hijacked it here. Our word* for it doesn't even have "Christ" in it. I would however replace "Rudolph" with "Donald Duck" because the TV is showing the same Disney crap every december 24th at 15:00, and I would add "food" and "family" to the list. (For those who don't know how to subtract 12, 15:00 is 3 PM).

*) The word is "Jul" and it's pronounced kind of like Yule, but we pronounce the "u" differently, and the "l" too actually.

[Jorghnassen]

I celebrate Xmas (Christmas, Noël, Yule, whatever you want to call it), with an amalgamation of traditions that coalesced together over time. A freaking pine tree with lights and decorations in the house, a model train going around it, a Nativity scene that is now overrun by sheep from all over the world (gotta love the metaphor), all the presents, all the food (turkey and meat pies eaten past midnight, foie gras, homemade donuts, cake shaped like a log...). Gotta watch A Charlie Brown Christmas at least once, and I like my Christmas carols to be the religious kind. Being a lapsed Catholic I can at least "identify" with those (more likely I'm just the kind of guy who believes music died in 1827.... the songs about the holiday season and Santa and the celebration itself are more recent and thus usually much worse). And most of all, I gotta go home (i.e. to my parent's house) where I am guaranteed at least a few inches of snow on the ground. Because it can't be Xmas without snow and family. I don't care about the origins of the various traditions, or that the Nativity story is complete fabrication regardless of the historicity of Jesus in general, or that Christmas may now be run by a big Eastern syndicate. The commercialism and various PC naming issues do irritate me a little, but once I'm on vacation, I don't give a hoot about those either...

[Darth Rotor]

My next door neighbor does not celebrate Christmas.

He does that JW thing.