How to destroy Religion

Oliver · 26th November 2009, 07:31 AM

I'm serious here:

How are we going to destroy religion once and for all?

We all know that the society/the media and the Judiciary will not oppose religious belief since they don't dare to attack those very beliefs. So what can we do to educate people if the Mainstream Media [MSM] will not support skepticism concerning Religion and Judges will not allow any court decision against Religion being -well- fraud.

Sure, we could post in a small forum all day long, but what could we do in a more affective and public way?

Marquis de Carabas · 26th November 2009, 07:34 AM

Kill all the humans.

Sledge · 26th November 2009, 07:39 AM

I prescribe fire and plenty of it.

Cainkane1 · 26th November 2009, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Oliver

I'm serious here:

How are we going to destroy religion once and for all?

We all know that the society/the media and the Judiciary will not oppose religious belief since they don't dare to attack those very beliefs. So what can we do to educate people if the Mainstream Media [MSM] will not support skepticism concerning Religion and Judges will not allow any court decision against Religion being -well- fraud.

Sure, we could post in a small forum all day long, but what could we do in a more affective and public way?

Nothing is going to wipe out religion. If yoou go to a third world country or a poor country you'll see teeming milliions of people who are religious. In very poor countries reigion is all they have. Its sad but true. Atheism would destroy their last hope.

Oliver · 26th November 2009, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

Nothing is going to wipe out religion. If yoou go to a third world country or a poor country you'll see teeming milliions of people who are religious. In very poor countries reigion is all they have. Its sad but true. Atheism would destroy their last hope.

Well, what could we do to turn their "last religious hope" into their "last atheist hope" since the first approach is doomed to fail anyway?

Also: I wasn't really referring to third world countries in the first place, but rather to our tools in the modern, western, industrialized world - despite the Pro-Woo opposition in law and the obviously "****ing pro religious conservative liberal" Media.

Oliver · 26th November 2009, 07:58 AM

"

Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas

Kill all the humans.

Uh, "Kill all Gods" would do it as well...

Jorghnassen · 26th November 2009, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Oliver

"

Uh, "Kill all Gods" would do it as well...

It's hard to kill something that doesn't exist or is unknowable, besides, you don't need gods to have a religion... but I have to go with the Marquis (and Bender from Futurama): the only way to destroy religion is to kill all humans.

I Ratant · 26th November 2009, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Oliver

I'm serious here:

How are we going to destroy religion once and for all?

We all know that the society/the media and the Judiciary will not oppose religious belief since they don't dare to attack those very beliefs. So what can we do to educate people if the Mainstream Media [MSM] will not support skepticism concerning Religion and Judges will not allow any court decision against Religion being -well- fraud.

Sure, we could post in a small forum all day long, but what could we do in a more affective and public way?

.
All that is needed is that emphasized above.

Oliver · 26th November 2009, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Sledge

I prescribe fire and plenty of it.

That wouldn't finish the job and violence is no solution in fighting general religious beliefs in the first place. We all know about the Muslim Nutjobs thinking everyone is attacking them, the Jewish Nutjobs who think God promised some stupid deserted land, Christians who think that God told them to go to War with non-Christian Country X - and so on...

My guess is that we would have to fight our very predominant Religions in the western World first to even think about fighting other religious woo throughout the rest of the world. Does anyone disagree?

Jorghnassen · 26th November 2009, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
All that is needed is that emphasized above.

Necessary but not sufficient.

Oliver · 26th November 2009, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
All that is needed is that emphasized above.

Well than, how is it possible to educate people if the very democratic system is opposing your view - if the Media doesn't like education if it comes to religion, if the judiciary does not an "anti-religious"/pro-skeptical point of view in the first place?

How would you educate people in the first place? What could you do to challenge the pro-religious powers running the society and media to attract any attention? - And no, posting in a small forum will not change anything towards sanity and facts, and you know that as well, no?

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 26th November 2009, 08:18 AM

Never gonna happen, my friends.

~~ Paul

Oliver · 26th November 2009, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Never gonna happen, my friends.

~~ Paul

Oh, so Zeus and the Sun God can't be ridiculed up to the point of irrelevance, right?

Undesired Walrus · 26th November 2009, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Oliver

I'm serious here:

How are we going to destroy religion once and for all?

We all know that the society/the media and the Judiciary will not oppose religious belief since they don't dare to attack those very beliefs. So what can we do to educate people if the Mainstream Media [MSM] will not support skepticism concerning Religion and Judges will not allow any court decision against Religion being -well- fraud.

Sure, we could post in a small forum all day long, but what could we do in a more affective and public way?

Humans practising humility.

I Ratant · 26th November 2009, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Oliver

Well than, how is it possible to educate people if the very democratic system is opposing your view - if the Media doesn't like education if it comes to religion, if the judiciary does not an "anti-religious"/pro-skeptical point of view in the first place?

How would you educate people in the first place? What could you do to challenge the pro-religious powers running the society and media to attract any attention? - And no, posting in a small forum will not change anything towards sanity and facts, and you know that as well, no?

.
Dare I say "Change the system"?
A democratic system is changeable.
Education is the cornerstone/bedrock/Square One to start with.
Separate the religious from the secular.
Expose the religious side to piercing analysis, showing its tenets are superficial and are implicit in a non-religious society which can function better without the peculiar requirements of religions.

I Ratant · 26th November 2009, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Jorghnassen

Necessary but not sufficient.

.
Education leads to making informed choices.
Without a willing choice to eschew religion, any forcing of the removal of religion will be resented and will let the religion continue in its devoted adherents.

ZeeZero · 26th November 2009, 08:58 AM

You might be able to get rid of the big 3, but there will always be some kind of supernatural worship going on. The only way you can completely destroy religion is to wipe out the human race.

Oliver · 26th November 2009, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
Dare I say "Change the system"?
A democratic system is changeable.
Education is the cornerstone/bedrock/Square One to start with.
Separate the religious from the secular.
Expose the religious side to piercing analysis, showing its tenets are superficial and are implicit in a non-religious society which can function better without the peculiar requirements of religions.

Sure, a "democratic System is changable". But what about a "democratic System" that isn't democratic if it comes to religion?

It still might be changeable in some way, but how would you archive change in such a non-democratic, conservative system? That's what the OP is all about...

Akhenaten · 26th November 2009, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Oliver

Sure, a "democratic System is changable". But what about a "democratic System" that isn't democratic if it comes to religion?

It still might be changeable in some way, but how would you archive change in such a non-democratic, conservative system? That's what the OP is all about...

1. Become Pharaoh.

2. Abolish religion

3. Attend to the Hyksos problem.

4. ???

5. Prophet

Apathia · 26th November 2009, 09:18 AM

As long as Humans are prone to following ideologies, there will be Religion.
Especially when there are Humans ideologically opposed to religion, so that they will seek to eliminate it.
Self defeating.

Oliver · 26th November 2009, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

1. Become Pharaoh.

2. Abolish religion

3. Attend to the Hyksos problem.

4. ???

5. Prophet

Meh, I'm asking about a sound, factual and reasonable solution to oppose society/media and woo-jurisdiction in your very individual country .... Come on, you "US-CAN-AUS-Skeptics" are capable to come up with a more sound solution than that, right?

Pure_Argent · 26th November 2009, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Oliver

Uh, "Kill all Gods" would do it as well...

But how do you kill that which has NO LIFE?

Anyways, nothing is going to destroy religion. End of story.

Oliver · 26th November 2009, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent

But how do you kill that which has NO LIFE?

Anyways, nothing is going to destroy religion. End of story.

Well, I'm sorry but you surely will not win the Skeptic Award 2009 using your wippers point of view. There is a solution if you're willing to keep on fighting against all kinds of Woo....

Pure_Argent · 26th November 2009, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Oliver

Well, I'm sorry but you surely will not win the Skeptic Award 2009 using your wippers point of view. There is a solution if you're willing to keep on fighting against all kinds of Woo....

No matter how hard you fight, there will always be those who cling to their beliefs and refuse to see reason (case in point: Pat Robertson). As such, there is no way to destroy religion in its entirety.

Oliver · 26th November 2009, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent

No matter how hard you fight, there will always be those who cling to their beliefs o way to destroy religion in its entirety.

Sure, there always will be idiots who will hold to their beliefs rather than accepting the facts. but the OP and I are still talking about how to circumvent social/=Media and political support for religious bull ****.

There is a way if you actually know you own system - and thus, how to defeat it ...

Beth · 26th November 2009, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
All that is needed is that emphasized above.

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
Dare I say "Change the system"?
A democratic system is changeable.
Education is the cornerstone/bedrock/Square One to start with.
Separate the religious from the secular.
Expose the religious side to piercing analysis, showing its tenets are superficial and are implicit in a non-religious society which can function better without the peculiar requirements of religions.

It would be helpful for this argument if you could give an example of a non-religious society that functions better than the remaining religious societies most people are familiar with. Could you name one?

~enigma~ · 26th November 2009, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent

But how do you kill that which has NO LIFE?

Anyways, nothing is going to destroy religion. End of story.

machete cutting off their heads just like in the zombie movies.

~enigma~ · 26th November 2009, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Beth

It would be helpful for this argument if you could give an example of a non-religious society that functions better than the remaining religious societies most people are familiar with. Could you name one?

Hmm...then why is the crime rate in this "great" christian nation (the USA) much more than the crime rate in mostly atheistic Europe?

mist · 26th November 2009, 10:07 AM

The only way to get people to become atheists, is to make atheism more attractive (or religion unattractive). Perhaps campaigns that shows those advantages (or disatvantages), or artificially doing this (say, giving people 50 dollars for every bible they burn, with a maximum of 1 bible per person. give 10 dollars to referrals for every person they got to burn a bible).

D'rok · 26th November 2009, 10:09 AM

Why would we want to destroy religion? It is perfectly possible for religion to play a benign and even beneficial role in civil society. Or are you referring explicitly to religious extremism?

nopoetlaureate · 26th November 2009, 10:10 AM

burning bibles only inflames them:-)

nopoetlaureate · 26th November 2009, 10:11 AM

solving it dissolves them:-)

~enigma~ · 26th November 2009, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by nopoetlaureate

burning bibles only inflames them:-)

I once saw a very illuminating church. Only time in my life that happened but it was on fire so it was a perfectly normal reason.

Beth · 26th November 2009, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

Hmm...then why is the crime rate in this "great" christian nation (the USA) much more than the crime rate in mostly atheistic Europe?

A good question and I suspect the answer is helpful to your argument, but it's not the example I was asking about. I don't think Europe qualifies as a non-religious society. It might help if you were to define what you mean by non-religious society. I was inferring from the OP and your post, societies that have no religion. If you only mean a society where the government is separate from religion, then the U.S. qualifies.

bokonon · 26th November 2009, 10:34 AM

I'm not trying to destroy religion. I still think it can be harnessed as a force for good. For most people, that's what it is already. I'd like to eliminate or marginalize the harmful varieties, but my quarrel isn't so much with religion per se as with those who use it to foment injustice and anti-reason.

jhunter1163 · 26th November 2009, 10:37 AM

I read the thread title as "How to destroy Belgium."

Might be time to get my glasses checked.

nopoetlaureate · 26th November 2009, 10:40 AM

i knew a xtian who ran a babble college and his office burnt down with all his books; now that was illuminating! he said satan did it. i said don't let him have matches. he didn't like me after that:-)

~enigma~ · 26th November 2009, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Beth

I was inferring from the OP and your post, .

My post?!? Then why did you quote I Ratant? And what post of mine were you referring to since my first post in this thread was to you.

I Ratant · 26th November 2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Beth

It would be helpful for this argument if you could give an example of a non-religious society that functions better than the remaining religious societies most people are familiar with. Could you name one?

.
Good question.
All societies today have religious backgrounds somewhere.
The commies sorta abolished the dominant religions, but when communism failed because it just plain can't work, political systems are evolving to fill in the need for public pablum to keep the masses content.
Sweet Thang gets her nails done (way too frequently!) at a shop with Vietnamese owners. Their tv is tuned to a channel from Vietnam.
Saigon...oops, Ho Chi Minh City looks remarkably fine in a modern sense, with all the commerce there. (The Saigon Zoo is still named that.)
Some of my toy airplane stuff comes from there.
How strong Hinduism or Buddhism is there now, wasn't particularly obvious, although Indonesia has a strong economy that works despite Islamic attempts to regress the country to the good old Stone Age, like almost all the other Islamic countries today.
The US with its nominal separation of c & s gets along kinda OK.
Education, for which the US is not known to excel at, could be improved to the benefit of all.
The media... Feh! They follow the money.
Just a buncha talking/slobbering heads of no import nor need to pay attention to.
Finland is pretty much secular, as is a lot of northern Europe, and getting along fairly well.. Finland's GNP* exceeds ALL the Arabic nations, which have 100 times its population.
.
*ref:"What Went Wrong", Bernard Lewis

Eyeron · 26th November 2009, 11:29 AM

Religion can't be destroyed. And I rather think it's not really religion that's the problem, it's people's blind adherence to it and forcing others to adhere to it is the problem But this is the same kind of behavior we get from any kind of ideology. It doesn't take religion to have zealots and extremists in it that behave the same way. For example, in partisan politics we have people who behave in the same ways as theists do. So really, it's not just religion that causes this kind of behavior.

26th November 2009, 07:31 AM	#1
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	How to destroy Religion I'm serious here: How are we going to destroy religion once and for all? We all know that the society/the media and the Judiciary will not oppose religious belief since they don't dare to attack those very beliefs. So what can we do to educate people if the Mainstream Media [MSM] will not support skepticism concerning Religion and Judges will not allow any court decision against Religion being -well- fraud. Sure, we could post in a small forum all day long, but what could we do in a more affective and public way?
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	__________________ εχΧọή MФBĪLE CǾNFĮŔMS GLФв∆L ΨĂЯMΐNĢ

26th November 2009, 07:34 AM	#2
Marquis de Carabas Dark Lord of the Pith Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: beneath the vast indifference of heaven Posts: 22,587	Kill all the humans.
	__________________ You've got to change my quote in your sig, darling. I'm really embarrassed by it. -KateHL

26th November 2009, 07:39 AM	#3
Sledge Muse Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Coming to you live from the Sledge cave Posts: 901	I prescribe fire and plenty of it.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

26th November 2009, 07:50 AM	#4
Cainkane1 Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 2,566	Originally Posted by Oliver I'm serious here: How are we going to destroy religion once and for all? We all know that the society/the media and the Judiciary will not oppose religious belief since they don't dare to attack those very beliefs. So what can we do to educate people if the Mainstream Media [MSM] will not support skepticism concerning Religion and Judges will not allow any court decision against Religion being -well- fraud. Sure, we could post in a small forum all day long, but what could we do in a more affective and public way? Nothing is going to wipe out religion. If yoou go to a third world country or a poor country you'll see teeming milliions of people who are religious. In very poor countries reigion is all they have. Its sad but true. Atheism would destroy their last hope.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

26th November 2009, 07:57 AM	#5
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	Originally Posted by Cainkane1 Nothing is going to wipe out religion. If yoou go to a third world country or a poor country you'll see teeming milliions of people who are religious. In very poor countries reigion is all they have. Its sad but true. Atheism would destroy their last hope. Well, what could we do to turn their "last religious hope" into their "last atheist hope" since the first approach is doomed to fail anyway? Also: I wasn't really referring to third world countries in the first place, but rather to our tools in the modern, western, industrialized world - despite the Pro-Woo opposition in law and the obviously "****ing pro religious conservative liberal" Media.
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	__________________ εχΧọή MФBĪLE CǾNFĮŔMS GLФв∆L ΨĂЯMΐNĢ

26th November 2009, 07:58 AM	#6
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	" Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas Kill all the humans. Uh, "Kill all Gods" would do it as well...
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	__________________ εχΧọή MФBĪLE CǾNFĮŔMS GLФв∆L ΨĂЯMΐNĢ

26th November 2009, 08:12 AM	#7
Jorghnassen Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The realm of ideas Posts: 2,844	Originally Posted by Oliver " Uh, "Kill all Gods" would do it as well... It's hard to kill something that doesn't exist or is unknowable, besides, you don't need gods to have a religion... but I have to go with the Marquis (and Bender from Futurama): the only way to destroy religion is to kill all humans.
	__________________ "Help control the local pet population: teach your dog abstinence." -Stephen Colbert

26th November 2009, 08:12 AM	#8
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,589	Originally Posted by Oliver I'm serious here: How are we going to destroy religion once and for all? We all know that the society/the media and the Judiciary will not oppose religious belief since they don't dare to attack those very beliefs. So what can we do to *educate people* if the Mainstream Media [MSM] will not support skepticism concerning Religion and Judges will not allow any court decision against Religion being -well- fraud. Sure, we could post in a small forum all day long, but what could we do in a more affective and public way? . All that is needed is that emphasized above.
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,589

26th November 2009, 08:13 AM	#9
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	Originally Posted by Sledge I prescribe fire and plenty of it. That wouldn't finish the job and violence is no solution in fighting general religious beliefs in the first place. We all know about the Muslim Nutjobs thinking everyone is attacking them, the Jewish Nutjobs who think God promised some stupid deserted land, Christians who think that God told them to go to War with non-Christian Country X - and so on... My guess is that we would have to fight our very predominant Religions in the western World first to even think about fighting other religious woo throughout the rest of the world. Does anyone disagree?
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	__________________ εχΧọή MФBĪLE CǾNFĮŔMS GLФв∆L ΨĂЯMΐNĢ

26th November 2009, 08:13 AM	#10
Jorghnassen Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The realm of ideas Posts: 2,844	Originally Posted by I Ratant . All that is needed is that emphasized above. Necessary but not sufficient.
	__________________ "Help control the local pet population: teach your dog abstinence." -Stephen Colbert

26th November 2009, 08:17 AM	#11
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	Originally Posted by I Ratant . All that is needed is that emphasized above. Well than, how is it possible to educate people if the very democratic system is opposing your view - if the Media doesn't like education if it comes to religion, if the judiciary does not an "anti-religious"/pro-skeptical point of view in the first place? How would you educate people in the first place? What could you do to challenge the pro-religious powers running the society and media to attract any attention? - And no, posting in a small forum will not change anything towards sanity and facts, and you know that as well, no?
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	__________________ εχΧọή MФBĪLE CǾNFĮŔMS GLФв∆L ΨĂЯMΐNĢ

26th November 2009, 08:18 AM	#12
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Looking for Fountain of Smart Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a little toolshed Posts: 17,157	Never gonna happen, my friends. ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz pi = 3.1415926...19729715941700531415926095214704122509...

26th November 2009, 08:22 AM	#13
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Never gonna happen, my friends. ~~ Paul Oh, so Zeus and the Sun God can't be ridiculed up to the point of irrelevance, right?
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	__________________ εχΧọή MФBĪLE CǾNFĮŔMS GLФв∆L ΨĂЯMΐNĢ

26th November 2009, 08:43 AM	#14
Undesired Walrus Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,139	Originally Posted by Oliver I'm serious here: How are we going to destroy religion once and for all? We all know that the society/the media and the Judiciary will not oppose religious belief since they don't dare to attack those very beliefs. So what can we do to educate people if the Mainstream Media [MSM] will not support skepticism concerning Religion and Judges will not allow any court decision against Religion being -well- fraud. Sure, we could post in a small forum all day long, but what could we do in a more affective and public way? Humans practising humility.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, Prime Minister of Britain, 1945

26th November 2009, 08:52 AM	#15
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,589	Originally Posted by Oliver Well than, how is it possible to educate people if the very democratic system is opposing your view - if the Media doesn't like education if it comes to religion, if the judiciary does not an "anti-religious"/pro-skeptical point of view in the first place? How would you educate people in the first place? What could you do to challenge the pro-religious powers running the society and media to attract any attention? - And no, posting in a small forum will not change anything towards sanity and facts, and you know that as well, no? . Dare I say "Change the system"? A democratic system is changeable. Education is the cornerstone/bedrock/Square One to start with. Separate the religious from the secular. Expose the religious side to piercing analysis, showing its tenets are superficial and are implicit in a non-religious society which can function better without the peculiar requirements of religions.
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,589

26th November 2009, 08:56 AM	#16
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,589	Originally Posted by Jorghnassen Necessary but not sufficient. . Education leads to making informed choices. Without a willing choice to eschew religion, any forcing of the removal of religion will be resented and will let the religion continue in its devoted adherents.
I Ratant Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,589

26th November 2009, 08:58 AM	#17
ZeeZero New Blood Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 11	get an asteroid. point at earth You might be able to get rid of the big 3, but there will always be some kind of supernatural worship going on. The only way you can completely destroy religion is to wipe out the human race.
ZeeZero New Blood Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 11

26th November 2009, 09:08 AM	#18
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	Originally Posted by I Ratant . Dare I say "Change the system"? A democratic system is changeable. Education is the cornerstone/bedrock/Square One to start with. Separate the religious from the secular. Expose the religious side to piercing analysis, showing its tenets are superficial and are implicit in a non-religious society which can function better without the peculiar requirements of religions. Sure, a "democratic System is changable". But what about a "democratic System" that isn't democratic if it comes to religion? It still might be changeable in some way, but how would you archive change in such a non-democratic, conservative system? That's what the OP is all about...
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26th November 2009, 09:14 AM	#19
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford Australia Posts: 6,284	Originally Posted by Oliver Sure, a "democratic System is changable". But what about a "democratic System" that isn't democratic if it comes to religion? It still might be changeable in some way, but how would you archive change in such a non-democratic, conservative system? That's what the OP is all about... 1. Become Pharaoh. 2. Abolish religion 3. Attend to the Hyksos problem. 4. ??? 5. Prophet
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon

26th November 2009, 09:18 AM	#20
Apathia Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,266	As long as Humans are prone to following ideologies, there will be Religion. Especially when there are Humans ideologically opposed to religion, so that they will seek to eliminate it. Self defeating.
Apathia Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,266	__________________ "to defy the authority of empirical evidence is to disqualify oneself as someone worthy of critical engagement in a dialog." The Dalai Lama "Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures." Author Unknown

26th November 2009, 09:20 AM	#21
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	Originally Posted by Akhenaten 1. Become Pharaoh. 2. Abolish religion 3. Attend to the Hyksos problem. 4. ??? 5. Prophet Meh, I'm asking about a sound, factual and reasonable solution to oppose society/media and woo-jurisdiction in your very individual country .... Come on, you "US-CAN-AUS-Skeptics" are capable to come up with a more sound solution than that, right?
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	__________________ εχΧọή MФBĪLE CǾNFĮŔMS GLФв∆L ΨĂЯMΐNĢ

26th November 2009, 09:22 AM	#22
Pure_Argent Certified Castlevania Fanboy Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Clock Tower Boss Room Posts: 3,819	Originally Posted by Oliver Uh, "Kill all Gods" would do it as well... But how do you kill that which has NO LIFE? Anyways, nothing is going to destroy religion. End of story.
	__________________ "What is a man? Just a miserable little pile of secrets!" - Dracula, Castlevania "The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head." - Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

26th November 2009, 09:26 AM	#23
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	Originally Posted by Pure_Argent But how do you kill that which has NO LIFE? Anyways, nothing is going to destroy religion. End of story. Well, I'm sorry but you surely will not win the Skeptic Award 2009 using your wippers point of view. There is a solution if you're willing to keep on fighting against all kinds of Woo....
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	__________________ εχΧọή MФBĪLE CǾNFĮŔMS GLФв∆L ΨĂЯMΐNĢ

26th November 2009, 09:29 AM	#24
Pure_Argent Certified Castlevania Fanboy Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Clock Tower Boss Room Posts: 3,819	Originally Posted by Oliver Well, I'm sorry but you surely will not win the Skeptic Award 2009 using your wippers point of view. There is a solution if you're willing to keep on fighting against all kinds of Woo.... No matter how hard you fight, there will always be those who cling to their beliefs and refuse to see reason (case in point: Pat Robertson). As such, there is no way to destroy religion in its entirety.
	__________________ "What is a man? Just a miserable little pile of secrets!" - Dracula, Castlevania "The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head." - Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

26th November 2009, 09:33 AM	#25
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	Originally Posted by Pure_Argent No matter how hard you fight, there will always be those who cling to their beliefs o way to destroy religion in its entirety. Sure, there always will be idiots who will hold to their beliefs rather than accepting the facts. but the OP and I are still talking about how to circumvent social/=Media and political support for religious bull ****. There is a way if you actually know you own system - and thus, how to defeat it ...
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 16,228	__________________ εχΧọή MФBĪLE CǾNFĮŔMS GLФв∆L ΨĂЯMΐNĢ

26th November 2009, 09:54 AM	#26
Beth Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Flatland Posts: 3,863	Originally Posted by I Ratant . All that is needed is that emphasized above. Originally Posted by I Ratant . Dare I say "Change the system"? A democratic system is changeable. Education is the cornerstone/bedrock/Square One to start with. Separate the religious from the secular. Expose the religious side to piercing analysis, showing its tenets are superficial and are implicit in a non-religious society which can function better without the peculiar requirements of religions. It would be helpful for this argument if you could give an example of a non-religious society that functions better than the remaining religious societies most people are familiar with. Could you name one?
	__________________ Beth "You are not the stuff of which you are made." Richard Dawkins, July 2005, 10:45 http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_daw..._universe.html

26th November 2009, 10:04 AM	#27
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,955	Originally Posted by Pure_Argent But how do you kill that which has NO LIFE? Anyways, nothing is going to destroy religion. End of story. machete cutting off their heads just like in the zombie movies.

26th November 2009, 10:06 AM	#28
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,955	Originally Posted by Beth It would be helpful for this argument if you could give an example of a non-religious society that functions better than the remaining religious societies most people are familiar with. Could you name one? Hmm...then why is the crime rate in this "great" christian nation (the USA) much more than the crime rate in mostly atheistic Europe?

26th November 2009, 10:07 AM	#29
mist Scholar Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 86	The only way to get people to become atheists, is to make atheism more attractive (or religion unattractive). Perhaps campaigns that shows those advantages (or disatvantages), or artificially doing this (say, giving people 50 dollars for every bible they burn, with a maximum of 1 bible per person. give 10 dollars to referrals for every person they got to burn a bible).
mist Scholar Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 86

26th November 2009, 10:09 AM	#30
D'rok Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ottawa Posts: 3,062	Why would we want to destroy religion? It is perfectly possible for religion to play a benign and even beneficial role in civil society. Or are you referring explicitly to religious extremism?
	__________________ "War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor "Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

26th November 2009, 10:10 AM	#31
nopoetlaureate New Blood Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4	burning bibles only inflames them:-)
nopoetlaureate New Blood Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4

26th November 2009, 10:11 AM	#32
nopoetlaureate New Blood Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4	solving it dissolves them:-)
nopoetlaureate New Blood Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4

26th November 2009, 10:16 AM	#33
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,955	Originally Posted by nopoetlaureate burning bibles only inflames them:-) I once saw a very illuminating church. Only time in my life that happened but it was on fire so it was a perfectly normal reason.

26th November 2009, 10:34 AM	#34
Beth Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Flatland Posts: 3,863	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ Hmm...then why is the crime rate in this "great" christian nation (the USA) much more than the crime rate in mostly atheistic Europe? A good question and I suspect the answer is helpful to your argument, but it's not the example I was asking about. I don't think Europe qualifies as a non-religious society. It might help if you were to define what you mean by non-religious society. I was inferring from the OP and your post, societies that have no religion. If you only mean a society where the government is separate from religion, then the U.S. qualifies.
	__________________ Beth "You are not the stuff of which you are made." Richard Dawkins, July 2005, 10:45 http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_daw..._universe.html

26th November 2009, 10:34 AM	#35
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224	I'm not trying to destroy religion. I still think it can be harnessed as a force for good. For most people, that's what it is already. I'd like to eliminate or marginalize the harmful varieties, but my quarrel isn't so much with religion per se as with those who use it to foment injustice and anti-reason.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,224	__________________ Laugh while you can, monkey boy.