New Opposition Leader in Australia - Emissions Trading Scheme to be voted down

lionking · 30th November 2009, 03:16 PM

I know Australian politics is not huge here, and I would not normally start a thread about it, but the immediate consequence of this is that the Senate, where the Opposition and independents have the balance of power, will now vote down the carbon trading scheme. As a G20 country and 13th largest contributor to emissions, this is significant.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/ab...ml?autostart=1

Will this lead to other countries re-assessing their positions of carbon trading and other emissions schemes?

The Fool · 30th November 2009, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I know Australian politics is not huge here, and I would not normally start a thread about it, but the immediate consequence of this is that the Senate, where the Opposition and independents have the balance of power, will now vote down the carbon trading scheme. As a G20 country and 13th largest contributor to emissions, this is significant.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/ab...ml?autostart=1

Will this lead to other countries re-assessing their positions of carbon trading and other emissions schemes?

so whats new? The Catholic Taliban (Tony Abbott) has taken the leadership of the remnants of the collapsed right wing party and the cost of achieving this was to give the parties global warming deniers what they wanted.

wake me up in 3 or 4 years and we'll see if the right wing of australian politics has climbed back out of the hole.

the_eye · 30th November 2009, 03:57 PM

I predict a landslide victory for Labor in the next election. Tony Abbot is even less popular then Malcolm Turnball.

Alan · 30th November 2009, 04:01 PM

Tony Abbott doesn't seem Prime Ministerial giving this current speech. He's far too excited/nervous. I think it will affect his popularity polls negatively and chances of being elected if he continues like this.

lionking · 30th November 2009, 04:05 PM

A lot depends on how things are spun. I'm certain that the official position will be that the libs are not against emissions reductions, but that the CPRS was deeply flawed (and there's some truth in this) and that a new scheme will be put forward by the libs post-Copenhagen.

And remember that Howard was also "un-electable" when he took over as Opposition leader, and Rudd hardly generated dancing in the streets when he took over.

gtc · 30th November 2009, 04:24 PM

I think Joe Hockey as leader and Abbot as deputy would have worked out better.

With Joe as the nice guy and Abbot as the attack dog. Sort of like Ruddkipz and Gillard.

lionking · 30th November 2009, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by gtc

I think Joe Hockey as leader and Abbot as deputy would have worked out better.

I was going to say that two such egos would not work, but Hawke and Keating sort of contradicts that.

The Atheist · 30th November 2009, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I know Australian politics is not huge here, and I would not normally start a thread about it, but the immediate consequence of this is that the Senate, where the Opposition and independents have the balance of power, will now vote down the carbon trading scheme. As a G20 country and 13th largest contributor to emissions, this is significant.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/ab...ml?autostart=1

Will this lead to other countries re-assessing their positions of carbon trading and other emissions schemes?

More than likely.

It certainly won't do Aussie any harm in the short term - unless another 400,000 Kiwis moving there is harmful. (I'd say helpful, they might even teach you lot how to speak proper)

It's going down well in NZ, especially counterpointing the NZ Parliament pushing the same bill through this week and adding to our tax burden.

Given that denial seems to be a lot more popular than acceptance, it's going to prove pretty popular with the voters as well.

Originally Posted by The Fool

so whats new? The Catholic Taliban (Tony Abbott) has taken the leadership of the remnants of the collapsed right wing party and the cost of achieving this was to give the parties global warming deniers what they wanted.

wake me up in 3 or 4 years and we'll see if the right wing of australian politics has climbed back out of the hole.

Ah, it's lovely to sit back and compare PMs with you guys.

I'm no John Key fan, but between Abbott and Rudd, you must have the least inspiring pollies on the planet; they make Key look like a white Obama!

WTF is with Aussie having such pussy PMs all of a sudden? Jeating, Hawke and a few of your previous blokes were real battlers.

The Fool · 30th November 2009, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I was going to say that two such egos would not work, but Hawke and Keating sort of contradicts that.

Got no time for Abbott, he's a bit strange. Hockey is a nice guy....trouble is he is not a good administrator. Already demoted once and described as having "problems with attention to detail" which means he cocks stuff up fairly regularly. Interesting story I heard was that he walked the Kokoda track with our PM Kevin rudd (before he was PM) and apparently pulled him out of a fast flowing river, this was described as "saving his life" by the press.....may have been less spectacular in real life but can you imagine Obama pulling bush out of a fast flowing river? The story hardly made the mainstream press here.

Another interesting story is that during their university days Abbott and Hockey got into a fist fight in a Rugby game....little skinny abbott aparently soundly belted big Joe Hockey due to previous boxing training.

The joys of Australian politics....

and lastly, and most sadly.....with the exit of Peter costello there is now no posibility of a run off between "Abbott and Costello" for the Party leadership. What an oportunity missed.

lionking · 30th November 2009, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by The Fool

and lastly, and most sadly.....with the exit of Peter costello there is now no posibility of a run off between "Abbott and Costello" for the Party leadership. What an oportunity missed.

No but there's a Bishop and an Abbott on the front bench.

Wildy · 30th November 2009, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

...and Rudd hardly generated dancing in the streets when he took over.

Unless you believe The Herd.

In reality Rudd only got elected because Howard screwed up. He didn't give a consistent answer to when he would retire. Many people didn't really like playing a game of roulette where Howard might leave mid term and then we'd see Costello as the PM.

That and Workchoices.

the_eye · 30th November 2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

WTF is with Aussie having such pussy PMs all of a sudden?

Don't let Kevin Rudd's appearance fool you, he's as strong as steel and more cunning then a swamp rat.

No offense, but as citizen of another country whose entire defense strategy is to hide behind Australia, it's hypocritical too call anyone a pussy.

Quote:

Keating, Hawke and a few of your previous blokes were real battlers.

How were they "Battlers?" They were both pretty Rich.

lionking · 30th November 2009, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by the_eye

Don't let Kevin Rudd's appearance fool you, he's as strong as steel and more cunning then a swamp rat.

No offense, but as citizen of another country whose entire defense strategy is to hide behind Australia, it's hypocritical too call anyone a pussy.

How were they "Battlers?" They were both pretty Rich.

A small hint the eye. The Atheist is almost without peer when it comes to stirring the proverbial. Take what he says with a modicum of salt, return serve just as hard and enjoy the ride.

Damien Evans · 30th November 2009, 09:52 PM

Right then, I'm voting for Labor next election.

Tricky · 30th November 2009, 10:20 PM

As a Yank who knows nothing (at least until now) about Australian politics, I just want to say thanks to you blokes for keeping us informed in ways that the newpapers never do.

Darth Rotor · 30th November 2009, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

As a Yank who knows nothing (at least until now) about Australian politics, I just want to say thanks to you blokes for keeping us informed in ways that the newpapers never do.

I am still thanking Australia for Elle McPhereson.

a_unique_person · 1st December 2009, 02:10 AM

Abbot and the liberals are ensuring they could get a ETS scheme that is better than the emasculated result we have now. By voting down the ETS they give the trigger for a Double Dissolution, which Labor is certain to win in a landslide. The elevation of Abbot to opposition leader by a one vote margin is something they could only have dreamed about. The timing of the spill was interesting too. Fran Bailey, a Turnbull backer and probable supporter of an ETS are the disaster of the fires through her electorate, was ill and was not given a proxy vote. Two new members who can't vote till next week would also be Turnbull backers. The inherent instability and mistrust is only going to get worse.

Worse still, they will be many liberals wondering if they can keep their seats at the next election. The ETS is favoured by the majority of Australians, and Abbot is their least preferred alternative PM. If they want to keep their seats, something will have to give.

Add to that the treachery of the conservatives. They were pushing for Hockey as the alternative to Turnbull, and said Abbot was only running so that a spill could be forced. In the first round of voting, Hockey got the least votes of the three.

This will play out for years to come. The only problem is that Labor could get it too easy and go the way of NSW labor, with self interest the dominating force after a while, as actually having to answer to the constituency won't be necessary to win.

lionking · 1st December 2009, 02:22 AM

I can't imagine Labor going to a Double Dissolution. Sure, this will allow them to get the ETS through, but they will not control the senate and they know it. A Double Dissolution election, with all senate seats up for grabs and not just half, will result in a heap of single issue Independents. Dealing with six or seven Xenophons and Fieldings is something Labor will avoid like the plague.

I'd also like a dollar for all the times I've heard "that's the end of Labor/the Coalition for the next 10 years". Electorates have very, very short memories and can be swayed by one issue.

a_unique_person · 1st December 2009, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

I can't imagine Labor going to a Double Dissolution. Sure, this will allow them to get the ETS through, but they will not control the senate and they know it. A Double Dissolution election, with all senate seats up for grabs and not just half, will result in a heap of single issue Independents. Dealing with six or seven Xenophons and Fieldings is something Labor will avoid like the plague.

I'd also like a dollar for all the times I've heard "that's the end of Labor/the Coalition for the next 10 years". Electorates have very, very short memories and can be swayed by one issue.

They can be, if they have someone to vote for. The Liberal Party is doing it's best to make sure they are offering up their worst candidate, not their best.

The Atheist · 1st December 2009, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by the_eye

Don't let Kevin Rudd's appearance fool you, he's as strong as steel and more cunning then a swamp rat.

Nothing to do with his apeparance.

He doesn't look any worse of a wimp than Key.

What makes him a pussy is the Marist Bros high school, the arts degrees and memebership of things like the Australian Student Christian Movement.

Cunning and political steel just don't register.

Originally Posted by the_eye

No offense, but as citizen of another country whose entire defense strategy is to hide behind Australia, it's hypocritical too call anyone a pussy.

Coming from a citizen of a country whose entire defence strategy is to ride America's coat-tails at all costs (refer Rudd and his position on Iraq/USA) that is ironically funny.

Well, if you were right, it would be ironic but you're demonstrably wrong, which makes it funnier, if less ironic.

NZ doesn't have a defence policy, let alone one of hiding behind Australia.

Just the minutest search of the history of NZ politics in the late 20th century would enable you to realise that far from hiding behind anyone, NZ has stood up to all comers, most particularly the sole superpower, USA.

[tip: "to" and "too" have completely different uses]

Originally Posted by the_eye

How were they "Battlers?" They were both pretty Rich.

What does money have to do with it? A battler is someone who battles against odds. Rudd hasn't had the chance to do that yet - maybe he'll surprise me.

Originally Posted by lionking

A small hint the eye. The Atheist is almost without peer when it comes to stirring the proverbial. Take what he says with a modicum of salt, return serve just as hard and enjoy the ride.

What is this "almost" crap?

Originally Posted by lionking

Electorates have very, very short memories and can be swayed by one issue.

What's the prevailing Aussie opinion on AGW?

I'd expect it to be similar to ours where the majority of the public don't want to be hit in the pocket, so hate the idea and will cleave to denialism like the proverbial brown stuff to a blanket.

Do you think it's an issue which Rudd would try to make a serious election issue?

I agree that any dissolution is extremely unlikely.

lionking · 1st December 2009, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

What's the prevailing Aussie opinion on AGW?

I'd expect it to be similar to ours where the majority of the public don't want to be hit in the pocket, so hate the idea and will cleave to denialism like the proverbial brown stuff to a blanket.

Do you think it's an issue which Rudd would try to make a serious election issue?

I agree that any dissolution is extremely unlikely.

Opinion polls show most Australians support it, but when you dig deeper most have no idea of how it will work in general, let alone the detail. It's been sold to the public with the message "we have no choice, it will be good for you, bend over and cop this".

I think if an election concentrated on the ETS alone, it might not be the absolute winner for Labor many believe. In addition, boats with illegal immigrants are arriving on a weekly basis - a winning issue for the Coalition.

Labor will win the next election, whenever it is, but I'm far from certain it will be the landslide many predict.

INRM · 1st December 2009, 02:52 PM

I'm glad they voted down the Emissions Trading Scheme. Especially with all this data from East Anglia and New Zealand exposed as fraudulent.

INRM

The Atheist · 1st December 2009, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I think if an election concentrated on the ETS alone, it might not be the absolute winner for Labor many believe. In addition, boats with illegal immigrants are arriving on a weekly basis - a winning issue for the Coalition.

Yes, always a popular one!

Originally Posted by INRM

I'm glad they voted down the Emissions Trading Scheme. Especially with all this data from East Anglia and New Zealand exposed as fraudulent.

INRM

Nothing has been "voted down".

The data from NZ has not been "exposed as fraudulent".

If you can't be bothered checking facts, don't bother entering the discussion.

The Fool · 1st December 2009, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by INRM

I'm glad they voted down the Emissions Trading Scheme. Especially with all this data from East Anglia and New Zealand exposed as fraudulent.

INRM

but I think we already have threads dedecated to people who like to make stuff up on the issue of Global warming. Please piss off and use those threads..

The Atheist · 1st December 2009, 04:03 PM

That is pretty well said.

lionking · 1st December 2009, 08:03 PM

Another correct prediction about no double dissolution. Labor will re-introduce the legislation next year.

And to those who may think Labor will get a senate majority, predictions in the papers today show the Greens having the balance of power alone (although personally I think there will be more independents to muddy the water). They will only accept an ETS which will cripple business and power generation, which aligns pretty well with their agenda. Labor will not cave in to Greens demands. Apart from anything else, every union will desert the party.

And while I'm on about the Greens, they were very quick to describe the Coalition as science-denying trogolites, while at the same time refusing to even discuss the possibility of nuclear energy. Heaven help us all if they ever get real power.

The Fool · 2nd December 2009, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Another correct prediction about no double dissolution. Labor will re-introduce the legislation next year.

And to those who may think Labor will get a senate majority, predictions in the papers today show the Greens having the balance of power alone (although personally I think there will be more independents to muddy the water). They will only accept an ETS which will cripple business and power generation, which aligns pretty well with their agenda. Labor will not cave in to Greens demands. Apart from anything else, every union will desert the party.

And while I'm on about the Greens, they were very quick to describe the Coalition as science-denying trogolites, while at the same time refusing to even discuss the possibility of nuclear energy. Heaven help us all if they ever get real power.

there is something aboput the words "greens" and "ballance of power" appearing in the same sentance that makes me feel uneasy. Lets hope the shooters party or some other special interest group can take over the defacto ruling of the nation first...If we are going to have our government controlled by a handfull of 1 issue amateur politicians at least lets have ones with great big guns rather than koala kissers.

Wildy · 3rd December 2009, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

NZ doesn't have a defence policy, let alone one of hiding behind Australia.

We know:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Originally Posted by lionking

And to those who may think Labor will get a senate majority, predictions in the papers today show the Greens having the balance of power alone (although personally I think there will be more independents to muddy the water).

Personally I think that Xenophon will get back in. I don't think he'll get a second seat though.

Quote:

They will only accept an ETS which will cripple business and power generation, which aligns pretty well with their agenda. Labor will not cave in to Greens demands. Apart from anything else, every union will desert the party.

And while I'm on about the Greens, they were very quick to describe the Coalition as science-denying trogolites, while at the same time refusing to even discuss the possibility of nuclear energy. Heaven help us all if they ever get real power.

The Greens are, in my opinion, endemic of the 'green' movement. They've got big ideas but they aren't viable ideas in the real world.

Their stance on nuclear power is a perfect example of this. Renewable energy sources, while environmentally friendly, are not at the level to meet demand. Nuclear power is far cleaner then coal and gas, but groups like the Greens see the words "nuclear power" and think "Chernobyl".

lionking · 3rd December 2009, 02:07 AM

Off topic, but it's my thread, so bugger it. NSW has thrown out the sitting Premier, Nathan Rees and now has it's first female Premier, Kristina Keneally, as well as a female Deputy.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...me-nsw-premier

Not bad for the blokey NSW Labor Party, the home of the "maaaates".

Ausmerican · 3rd December 2009, 05:28 AM

Hey Atheist mate? If we want to learn to talk like we have a bad South African accent we'll just rent Lethal Weapon 2 again so to put it in Kiwi, 'thinx but no thinx' for the offer to teach us to talk proper.

The Atheist · 3rd December 2009, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Wildy

We know:

That's brilliant!

Originally Posted by Wildy

The Greens are, in my opinion, endemic of the 'green' movement. They've got big ideas but they aren't viable ideas in the real world.

Their stance on nuclear power is a perfect example of this. Renewable energy sources, while environmentally friendly, are not at the level to meet demand. Nuclear power is far cleaner then coal and gas, but groups like the Greens see the words "nuclear power" and think "Chernobyl".

Your Greens are the same as our Greens - absolute frauds.

No doubt that's why we have an Aussie Kant in charge (jointly, of course) of NZ Greens.

Originally Posted by Ausmerican

Hey Atheist mate? If we want to learn to talk like we have a bad South African accent we'll just rent Lethal Weapon 2 again so to put it in Kiwi, 'thinx but no thinx' for the offer to teach us to talk proper.

We already talk more properer than youse.

The Fool · 3rd December 2009, 05:09 PM

[quote=lionking;5371258]Off topic, but it's my thread, so bugger it. NSW has thrown out the sitting Premier, Nathan Rees and now has it's first female Premier, Kristina Keneally, as well as a female Deputy.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...me-nsw-premier

She rings Tripodi and Obeid every morning to find out what her original Ideas are for today.

what an efing joke. Talk about rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Just about all whatshisname from the libs has to do to win the next election is not have a heart attack.

and while I'm in a ranting mood. I cannot stand listening to my leaders speak to me with an american accent. It makes me feel like an extra in some sci fi moovie about the post apocalyptic world...

I know its just bigotry but .......an american running the state? Watch out New Zealand, we know you have weapons of mass destruction.

lionking · 4th December 2009, 04:56 AM

[quote=The Fool;5373946]

Originally Posted by lionking

Off topic, but it's my thread, so bugger it. NSW has thrown out the sitting Premier, Nathan Rees and now has it's first female Premier, Kristina Keneally, as well as a female Deputy.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...me-nsw-premier

She rings Tripodi and Obeid every morning to find out what her original Ideas are for today.

what an efing joke. Talk about rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Just about all whatshisname from the libs has to do to win the next election is not have a heart attack.

and while I'm in a ranting mood. I cannot stand listening to my leaders speak to me with an american accent. It makes me feel like an extra in some sci fi moovie about the post apocalyptic world...

I know its just bigotry but .......an american running the state? Watch out New Zealand, we know you have weapons of mass destruction.

I agree with you, but get used to Labor winning again. Do you really think O'Farrell is electable?

The Atheist · 4th December 2009, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by The Fool

and while I'm in a ranting mood. I cannot stand listening to my leaders speak to me with an american accent. It makes me feel like an extra in some sci fi moovie about the post apocalyptic world...

It's everywhere.

I executed a teacher last week for talking about "A to Zee" to her kids.

Originally Posted by The Fool

Watch out New Zealand, we know you have weapons of mass destruction.

Haha! We're over all that.

Barack and John are pals. Barack spent 30% more time with John than Kevin at APEC. And Michelle and Bronagh exchanged pleasantries!

The Fool · 4th December 2009, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I agree with you, but get used to Labor winning again. Do you really think O'Farrell is electable?

O'Farrell? Who's he?

hang on I googled and thats apparently whatshisname's name ......the leader of the liberal party. Sorry for appearing to be uninformed but the guys only plan has been to not be seen.

as for being unelectable? I don't think there is such a thing as unelectable....anything animal vegetable or mineral can get elected... Just look back in history at some of the elected pollies we have had.

Defeating a talentless puppet of the Italian and lebenase branch stacking mafia may be a stretch for whatshisname but as long as The liberal party election people manage to stop him from actually saying or doing anything during the campaign he should get up.

I read today the editorial from the Sydney morning Herald which openly called on the Labor party to resign and call an election because they had descended into a farce. Thats pretty heavy stuff. I have not seen that before.

lionking · 5th December 2009, 12:30 AM

You may well be right (hey, don't fall of the chair

).

I read something in the sydney-centric Australian magazine which concluded that Sydney has fallen well behind both Melbourne and Brisbane by any objective measure. Quite an achievement by Labor after the heights of the 2000 Olympics. One of the key factors in Sydney's demise was Carr's pronouncement "Sydney is full" and the lack of infrastructure that followed it.

The author of the article reported that a '50's, unrenovated two bedroom house on a 300 sq mtr block near him in inner western Sydney sold last week for $1.4 million, when it would have fetched $300,000 a few years ago. He reported this with sadness. How on earth can anyone afford to live in that place?

And, for the record, I was born and raised in Sydney.

gtc · 5th December 2009, 03:19 AM

It looks like the Liberals comfortably retained both seats in the by-elections today. The Greens didn't do nearly as well as some thought they woul, even though they were helped by the Labor party not standing.

I wonder what the Christian Democrats were thinking running 9 candidates in Bradfield? They apparently had wanted to run 11 (the number of Apostles minus Judas) but they've all lost their deposit. Weird shenanigans.

a_unique_person · 5th December 2009, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by gtc

It looks like the Liberals comfortably retained both seats in the by-elections today.

As they were two of the safest seats the liberals have, i doubt anyone expected anything different.

lionking · 5th December 2009, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by gtc

It looks like the Liberals comfortably retained both seats in the by-elections today. The Greens didn't do nearly as well as some thought they woul, even though they were helped by the Labor party not standing.

I wonder what the Christian Democrats were thinking running 9 candidates in Bradfield? They apparently had wanted to run 11 (the number of Apostles minus Judas) but they've all lost their deposit. Weird shenanigans.

I expected the Greens to do well in Higgins in effectively a two horse race. Imagine how they would have gone if their candidate didn't live in Canberra and had the slightest clue about local issues? The Greens are the losers in this electorate in my opinion.

gtc · 5th December 2009, 02:38 PM

Malcolm Mackerras thought the Greens would win Higgins. There was a lot of hyperbole from Greens' supporters.

Originally Posted by lionking

I expected the Greens to do well in Higgins in effectively a two horse race. Imagine how they would have gone if their candidate didn't live in Canberra and had the slightest clue about local issues? The Greens are the losers in this electorate in my opinion.

Helicoptering in a 'high profile' candidate with no idea of the local issues seems certain to rub people up the wrong way. I'm sure they could have found someone with a reasonable profile who actually lives in Melbourne.

30th November 2009, 03:16 PM	#1
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,673	New Opposition Leader in Australia - Emissions Trading Scheme to be voted down I know Australian politics is not huge here, and I would not normally start a thread about it, but the immediate consequence of this is that the Senate, where the Opposition and independents have the balance of power, will now vote down the carbon trading scheme. As a G20 country and 13th largest contributor to emissions, this is significant. http://www.theage.com.au/national/ab...ml?autostart=1 Will this lead to other countries re-assessing their positions of carbon trading and other emissions schemes?
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

30th November 2009, 03:53 PM	#2
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Originally Posted by lionking I know Australian politics is not huge here, and I would not normally start a thread about it, but the immediate consequence of this is that the Senate, where the Opposition and independents have the balance of power, will now vote down the carbon trading scheme. As a G20 country and 13th largest contributor to emissions, this is significant. http://www.theage.com.au/national/ab...ml?autostart=1 Will this lead to other countries re-assessing their positions of carbon trading and other emissions schemes? so whats new? The Catholic Taliban (Tony Abbott) has taken the leadership of the remnants of the collapsed right wing party and the cost of achieving this was to give the parties global warming deniers what they wanted. wake me up in 3 or 4 years and we'll see if the right wing of australian politics has climbed back out of the hole.
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

30th November 2009, 04:05 PM	#5
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,673	A lot depends on how things are spun. I'm certain that the official position will be that the libs are not against emissions reductions, but that the CPRS was deeply flawed (and there's some truth in this) and that a new scheme will be put forward by the libs post-Copenhagen. And remember that Howard was also "un-electable" when he took over as Opposition leader, and Rudd hardly generated dancing in the streets when he took over.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

30th November 2009, 04:24 PM	#6
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the downunderverse Posts: 7,114	I think Joe Hockey as leader and Abbot as deputy would have worked out better. With Joe as the nice guy and Abbot as the attack dog. Sort of like Ruddkipz and Gillard.
	__________________

30th November 2009, 04:52 PM	#7
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,673	Originally Posted by gtc I think Joe Hockey as leader and Abbot as deputy would have worked out better. I was going to say that two such egos would not work, but Hawke and Keating sort of contradicts that.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

30th November 2009, 03:57 PM	#3
the_eye Scholar Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 55	I predict a landslide victory for Labor in the next election. Tony Abbot is even less popular then Malcolm Turnball.

30th November 2009, 04:01 PM	#4
Alan Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,652	Tony Abbott doesn't seem Prime Ministerial giving this current speech. He's far too excited/nervous. I think it will affect his popularity polls negatively and chances of being elected if he continues like this.

30th November 2009, 06:37 PM	#8
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Originally Posted by lionking I know Australian politics is not huge here, and I would not normally start a thread about it, but the immediate consequence of this is that the Senate, where the Opposition and independents have the balance of power, will now vote down the carbon trading scheme. As a G20 country and 13th largest contributor to emissions, this is significant. http://www.theage.com.au/national/ab...ml?autostart=1 Will this lead to other countries re-assessing their positions of carbon trading and other emissions schemes? More than likely. It certainly won't do Aussie any harm in the short term - unless another 400,000 Kiwis moving there is harmful. (I'd say helpful, they might even teach you lot how to speak proper) It's going down well in NZ, especially counterpointing the NZ Parliament pushing the same bill through this week and adding to our tax burden. Given that denial seems to be a lot more popular than acceptance, it's going to prove pretty popular with the voters as well. Originally Posted by The Fool so whats new? The Catholic Taliban (Tony Abbott) has taken the leadership of the remnants of the collapsed right wing party and the cost of achieving this was to give the parties global warming deniers what they wanted. wake me up in 3 or 4 years and we'll see if the right wing of australian politics has climbed back out of the hole. Ah, it's lovely to sit back and compare PMs with you guys. I'm no John Key fan, but between Abbott and Rudd, you must have the least inspiring pollies on the planet; they make Key look like a white Obama! WTF is with Aussie having such pussy PMs all of a sudden? Jeating, Hawke and a few of your previous blokes were real battlers.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

30th November 2009, 07:10 PM	#9
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Originally Posted by lionking I was going to say that two such egos would not work, but Hawke and Keating sort of contradicts that. Got no time for Abbott, he's a bit strange. Hockey is a nice guy....trouble is he is not a good administrator. Already demoted once and described as having "problems with attention to detail" which means he cocks stuff up fairly regularly. Interesting story I heard was that he walked the Kokoda track with our PM Kevin rudd (before he was PM) and apparently pulled him out of a fast flowing river, this was described as "saving his life" by the press.....may have been less spectacular in real life but can you imagine Obama pulling bush out of a fast flowing river? The story hardly made the mainstream press here. Another interesting story is that during their university days Abbott and Hockey got into a fist fight in a Rugby game....little skinny abbott aparently soundly belted big Joe Hockey due to previous boxing training. The joys of Australian politics.... and lastly, and most sadly.....with the exit of Peter costello there is now no posibility of a run off between "Abbott and Costello" for the Party leadership. What an oportunity missed.
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how. Last edited by The Fool; 30th November 2009 at 07:15 PM.

30th November 2009, 07:15 PM	#10
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,673	Originally Posted by The Fool and lastly, and most sadly.....with the exit of Peter costello there is now no posibility of a run off between "Abbott and Costello" for the Party leadership. What an oportunity missed. No but there's a Bishop and an Abbott on the front bench.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

30th November 2009, 08:02 PM	#11
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia, not that you'll read the "location" field. Posts: 9,924	Originally Posted by lionking ...and Rudd hardly generated dancing in the streets when he took over. Unless you believe The Herd. In reality Rudd only got elected because Howard screwed up. He didn't give a consistent answer to when he would retire. Many people didn't really like playing a game of roulette where Howard might leave mid term and then we'd see Costello as the PM. That and Workchoices.
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30th November 2009, 08:45 PM	#12
the_eye Scholar Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 55	Quote: WTF is with Aussie having such pussy PMs all of a sudden? Don't let Kevin Rudd's appearance fool you, he's as strong as steel and more cunning then a swamp rat. No offense, but as citizen of another country whose entire defense strategy is to hide behind Australia, it's hypocritical too call anyone a pussy. Quote: Keating, Hawke and a few of your previous blokes were real battlers. How were they "Battlers?" They were both pretty Rich.

30th November 2009, 09:21 PM	#13
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,673	Originally Posted by the_eye Don't let Kevin Rudd's appearance fool you, he's as strong as steel and more cunning then a swamp rat. No offense, but as citizen of another country whose entire defense strategy is to hide behind Australia, it's hypocritical too call anyone a pussy. How were they "Battlers?" They were both pretty Rich. A small hint the eye. The Atheist is almost without peer when it comes to stirring the proverbial. Take what he says with a modicum of salt, return serve just as hard and enjoy the ride.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

30th November 2009, 09:52 PM	#14
Damien Evans Up The Irons Tagger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 25,310	Right then, I'm voting for Labor next election.
	__________________ WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? - Death "Racism is a disease in society. We're all equal. I don't care what their colour is, or religion. Just as long as they're human beings they're my buddies." - Mandawuy Yunupingu, lead singer of Yothu Yindi

30th November 2009, 10:20 PM	#15
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,371	As a Yank who knows nothing (at least until now) about Australian politics, I just want to say thanks to you blokes for keeping us informed in ways that the newpapers never do.

30th November 2009, 11:26 PM	#16
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,279	Originally Posted by Tricky As a Yank who knows nothing (at least until now) about Australian politics, I just want to say thanks to you blokes for keeping us informed in ways that the newpapers never do. I am still thanking Australia for Elle McPhereson.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

1st December 2009, 02:10 AM	#17
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,331	Abbot and the liberals are ensuring they could get a ETS scheme that is better than the emasculated result we have now. By voting down the ETS they give the trigger for a Double Dissolution, which Labor is certain to win in a landslide. The elevation of Abbot to opposition leader by a one vote margin is something they could only have dreamed about. The timing of the spill was interesting too. Fran Bailey, a Turnbull backer and probable supporter of an ETS are the disaster of the fires through her electorate, was ill and was not given a proxy vote. Two new members who can't vote till next week would also be Turnbull backers. The inherent instability and mistrust is only going to get worse. Worse still, they will be many liberals wondering if they can keep their seats at the next election. The ETS is favoured by the majority of Australians, and Abbot is their least preferred alternative PM. If they want to keep their seats, something will have to give. Add to that the treachery of the conservatives. They were pushing for Hockey as the alternative to Turnbull, and said Abbot was only running so that a spill could be forced. In the first round of voting, Hockey got the least votes of the three. This will play out for years to come. The only problem is that Labor could get it too easy and go the way of NSW labor, with self interest the dominating force after a while, as actually having to answer to the constituency won't be necessary to win.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

1st December 2009, 02:22 AM	#18
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,673	I can't imagine Labor going to a Double Dissolution. Sure, this will allow them to get the ETS through, but they will not control the senate and they know it. A Double Dissolution election, with all senate seats up for grabs and not just half, will result in a heap of single issue Independents. Dealing with six or seven Xenophons and Fieldings is something Labor will avoid like the plague. I'd also like a dollar for all the times I've heard "that's the end of Labor/the Coalition for the next 10 years". Electorates have very, very short memories and can be swayed by one issue.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

1st December 2009, 02:33 AM	#19
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,331	Originally Posted by lionking I can't imagine Labor going to a Double Dissolution. Sure, this will allow them to get the ETS through, but they will not control the senate and they know it. A Double Dissolution election, with all senate seats up for grabs and not just half, will result in a heap of single issue Independents. Dealing with six or seven Xenophons and Fieldings is something Labor will avoid like the plague. I'd also like a dollar for all the times I've heard "that's the end of Labor/the Coalition for the next 10 years". Electorates have very, very short memories and can be swayed by one issue. They can be, if they have someone to vote for. The Liberal Party is doing it's best to make sure they are offering up their worst candidate, not their best.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

1st December 2009, 11:49 AM	#20
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Originally Posted by the_eye Don't let Kevin Rudd's appearance fool you, he's as strong as steel and more cunning then a swamp rat. Nothing to do with his apeparance. He doesn't look any worse of a wimp than Key. What makes him a pussy is the Marist Bros high school, the arts degrees and memebership of things like the Australian Student Christian Movement. Cunning and political steel just don't register. Originally Posted by the_eye No offense, but as citizen of another country whose entire defense strategy is to hide behind Australia, it's hypocritical too call anyone a pussy. Coming from a citizen of a country whose entire defence strategy is to ride America's coat-tails at all costs (refer Rudd and his position on Iraq/USA) that is ironically funny. Well, if you were right, it would be ironic but you're demonstrably wrong, which makes it funnier, if less ironic. NZ doesn't have a defence policy, let alone one of hiding behind Australia. Just the minutest search of the history of NZ politics in the late 20th century would enable you to realise that far from hiding behind anyone, NZ has stood up to all comers, most particularly the sole superpower, USA. [tip: "to" and "too" have completely different uses] Originally Posted by the_eye How were they "Battlers?" They were both pretty Rich. What does money have to do with it? A battler is someone who battles against odds. Rudd hasn't had the chance to do that yet - maybe he'll surprise me. Originally Posted by lionking A small hint the eye. The Atheist is almost without peer when it comes to stirring the proverbial. Take what he says with a modicum of salt, return serve just as hard and enjoy the ride. What is this "almost" crap? Originally Posted by lionking Electorates have very, very short memories and can be swayed by one issue. What's the prevailing Aussie opinion on AGW? I'd expect it to be similar to ours where the majority of the public don't want to be hit in the pocket, so hate the idea and will cleave to denialism like the proverbial brown stuff to a blanket. Do you think it's an issue which Rudd would try to make a serious election issue? I agree that any dissolution is extremely unlikely.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

1st December 2009, 12:52 PM	#21
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,673	Originally Posted by The Atheist What's the prevailing Aussie opinion on AGW? I'd expect it to be similar to ours where the majority of the public don't want to be hit in the pocket, so hate the idea and will cleave to denialism like the proverbial brown stuff to a blanket. Do you think it's an issue which Rudd would try to make a serious election issue? I agree that any dissolution is extremely unlikely. Opinion polls show most Australians support it, but when you dig deeper most have no idea of how it will work in general, let alone the detail. It's been sold to the public with the message "we have no choice, it will be good for you, bend over and cop this". I think if an election concentrated on the ETS alone, it might not be the absolute winner for Labor many believe. In addition, boats with illegal immigrants are arriving on a weekly basis - a winning issue for the Coalition. Labor will win the next election, whenever it is, but I'm far from certain it will be the landslide many predict.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

1st December 2009, 02:52 PM	#22
INRM Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,490	I'm glad they voted down the Emissions Trading Scheme. Especially with all this data from East Anglia and New Zealand exposed as fraudulent. INRM
INRM Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,490

1st December 2009, 03:06 PM	#23
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Originally Posted by lionking I think if an election concentrated on the ETS alone, it might not be the absolute winner for Labor many believe. In addition, boats with illegal immigrants are arriving on a weekly basis - a winning issue for the Coalition. Yes, always a popular one! Originally Posted by INRM I'm glad they voted down the Emissions Trading Scheme. Especially with all this data from East Anglia and New Zealand exposed as fraudulent. INRM Nothing has been "voted down". The data from NZ has not been "exposed as fraudulent". If you can't be bothered checking facts, don't bother entering the discussion.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

1st December 2009, 03:58 PM	#24
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Originally Posted by INRM I'm glad they voted down the Emissions Trading Scheme. Especially with all this data from East Anglia and New Zealand exposed as fraudulent. INRM but I think we already have threads dedecated to people who like to make stuff up on the issue of Global warming. Please piss off and use those threads..
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

1st December 2009, 04:03 PM	#25
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	That is pretty well said.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

1st December 2009, 08:03 PM	#26
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,673	Another correct prediction about no double dissolution. Labor will re-introduce the legislation next year. And to those who may think Labor will get a senate majority, predictions in the papers today show the Greens having the balance of power alone (although personally I think there will be more independents to muddy the water). They will only accept an ETS which will cripple business and power generation, which aligns pretty well with their agenda. Labor will not cave in to Greens demands. Apart from anything else, every union will desert the party. And while I'm on about the Greens, they were very quick to describe the Coalition as science-denying trogolites, while at the same time refusing to even discuss the possibility of nuclear energy. Heaven help us all if they ever get real power.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

2nd December 2009, 03:53 PM	#27
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Originally Posted by lionking Another correct prediction about no double dissolution. Labor will re-introduce the legislation next year. And to those who may think Labor will get a senate majority, predictions in the papers today show the Greens having the balance of power alone (although personally I think there will be more independents to muddy the water). They will only accept an ETS which will cripple business and power generation, which aligns pretty well with their agenda. Labor will not cave in to Greens demands. Apart from anything else, every union will desert the party. And while I'm on about the Greens, they were very quick to describe the Coalition as science-denying trogolites, while at the same time refusing to even discuss the possibility of nuclear energy. Heaven help us all if they ever get real power. there is something aboput the words "greens" and "ballance of power" appearing in the same sentance that makes me feel uneasy. Lets hope the shooters party or some other special interest group can take over the defacto ruling of the nation first...If we are going to have our government controlled by a handfull of 1 issue amateur politicians at least lets have ones with great big guns rather than koala kissers.
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how. Last edited by The Fool; 2nd December 2009 at 03:55 PM.

3rd December 2009, 02:07 AM	#29
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,673	Off topic, but it's my thread, so bugger it. NSW has thrown out the sitting Premier, Nathan Rees and now has it's first female Premier, Kristina Keneally, as well as a female Deputy. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...me-nsw-premier Not bad for the blokey NSW Labor Party, the home of the "maaaates".
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

3rd December 2009, 05:28 AM	#30
Ausmerican Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,381	Hey Atheist mate? If we want to learn to talk like we have a bad South African accent we'll just rent Lethal Weapon 2 again so to put it in Kiwi, 'thinx but no thinx' for the offer to teach us to talk proper.
Ausmerican Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,381

3rd December 2009, 03:50 PM	#31
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Originally Posted by Wildy We know: That's brilliant! Originally Posted by Wildy The Greens are, in my opinion, endemic of the 'green' movement. They've got big ideas but they aren't viable ideas in the real world. Their stance on nuclear power is a perfect example of this. Renewable energy sources, while environmentally friendly, are not at the level to meet demand. Nuclear power is far cleaner then coal and gas, but groups like the Greens see the words "nuclear power" and think "Chernobyl". Your Greens are the same as our Greens - absolute frauds. No doubt that's why we have an Aussie Kant in charge (jointly, of course) of NZ Greens. Originally Posted by Ausmerican Hey Atheist mate? If we want to learn to talk like we have a bad South African accent we'll just rent Lethal Weapon 2 again so to put it in Kiwi, 'thinx but no thinx' for the offer to teach us to talk proper. We already talk more properer than youse.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

3rd December 2009, 05:09 PM	#32
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	[quote=lionking;5371258]Off topic, but it's my thread, so bugger it. NSW has thrown out the sitting Premier, Nathan Rees and now has it's first female Premier, Kristina Keneally, as well as a female Deputy. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...me-nsw-premier She rings Tripodi and Obeid every morning to find out what her original Ideas are for today. what an efing joke. Talk about rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Just about all whatshisname from the libs has to do to win the next election is not have a heart attack. and while I'm in a ranting mood. I cannot stand listening to my leaders speak to me with an american accent. It makes me feel like an extra in some sci fi moovie about the post apocalyptic world... I know its just bigotry but .......an american running the state? Watch out New Zealand, we know you have weapons of mass destruction.
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how. Last edited by The Fool; 3rd December 2009 at 05:19 PM.

4th December 2009, 04:56 AM	#33
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,673	[quote=The Fool;5373946] Originally Posted by lionking Off topic, but it's my thread, so bugger it. NSW has thrown out the sitting Premier, Nathan Rees and now has it's first female Premier, Kristina Keneally, as well as a female Deputy. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...me-nsw-premier She rings Tripodi and Obeid every morning to find out what her original Ideas are for today. what an efing joke. Talk about rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Just about all whatshisname from the libs has to do to win the next election is not have a heart attack. and while I'm in a ranting mood. I cannot stand listening to my leaders speak to me with an american accent. It makes me feel like an extra in some sci fi moovie about the post apocalyptic world... I know its just bigotry but .......an american running the state? Watch out New Zealand, we know you have weapons of mass destruction. I agree with you, but get used to Labor winning again. Do you really think O'Farrell is electable?
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

4th December 2009, 11:56 AM	#34
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Originally Posted by The Fool and while I'm in a ranting mood. I cannot stand listening to my leaders speak to me with an american accent. It makes me feel like an extra in some sci fi moovie about the post apocalyptic world... It's everywhere. I executed a teacher last week for talking about "A to Zee" to her kids. Originally Posted by The Fool Watch out New Zealand, we know you have weapons of mass destruction. Haha! We're over all that. Barack and John are pals. Barack spent 30% more time with John than Kevin at APEC. And Michelle and Bronagh exchanged pleasantries!
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

4th December 2009, 11:52 PM	#35
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Originally Posted by lionking I agree with you, but get used to Labor winning again. Do you really think O'Farrell is electable? O'Farrell? Who's he? hang on I googled and thats apparently whatshisname's name ......the leader of the liberal party. Sorry for appearing to be uninformed but the guys only plan has been to not be seen. as for being unelectable? I don't think there is such a thing as unelectable....anything animal vegetable or mineral can get elected... Just look back in history at some of the elected pollies we have had. Defeating a talentless puppet of the Italian and lebenase branch stacking mafia may be a stretch for whatshisname but as long as The liberal party election people manage to stop him from actually saying or doing anything during the campaign he should get up. I read today the editorial from the Sydney morning Herald which openly called on the Labor party to resign and call an election because they had descended into a farce. Thats pretty heavy stuff. I have not seen that before.
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how. Last edited by The Fool; 4th December 2009 at 11:55 PM.

5th December 2009, 12:30 AM	#36
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,673	You may well be right (hey, don't fall of the chair ). I read something in the sydney-centric Australian magazine which concluded that Sydney has fallen well behind both Melbourne and Brisbane by any objective measure. Quite an achievement by Labor after the heights of the 2000 Olympics. One of the key factors in Sydney's demise was Carr's pronouncement "Sydney is full" and the lack of infrastructure that followed it. The author of the article reported that a '50's, unrenovated two bedroom house on a 300 sq mtr block near him in inner western Sydney sold last week for $1.4 million, when it would have fetched $300,000 a few years ago. He reported this with sadness. How on earth can anyone afford to live in that place? And, for the record, I was born and raised in Sydney.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill