[Split From] Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

E.J.Armstrong · 5th December 2009, 07:42 AM

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

In Europe we are more civilised than that.

It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed.

All in all 2 -0 to Europe.

PS
If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty.

PPS
If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences?

Darth Rotor · 5th December 2009, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

PS
If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty.

PPS
If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences?

Blatant attempted derail reported.

Note and FYI: the number of appeals anyone on death row in the US is eligible for is greater than one.

The appeals process in Italy I don't understand well enough, so I'll wait and see.

DR

The Central Scrutinizer · 5th December 2009, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

Not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by the US government.

Skeptic Ginger · 5th December 2009, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

I've followed this case in local papers and over the web. "Innocent victim of unfair, corrupt foreign legal system" just doesn't wash.

I can't believe this is what you got from following the case. OTOH, one of the issues that exist which led me to start the thread is that the US news of this event and the Italian news coverage of this event were starkly different. So being in Australia, it interests me what was reported in your news.

I have also followed the case from time to time, and I have a completely different picture of a travesty of justice. But it isn't so much a 'corrupt' legal system as it is more of a bigoted population and a cultural clash similar to how many blacks were lynched in the South in this country half a century ago.

E.J.Armstrong · 6th December 2009, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Blatant attempted derail reported.

Note and FYI: the number of appeals anyone on death row in the US is eligible for is greater than one.

The appeals process in Italy I don't understand well enough, so I'll wait and see.

DR

So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder when in many areas of the USA she would have had people consumed by bloodlust gawping at her death throes in a US murder unit.

She is also lucky that in the future, if there is any evidence that demonstrates she has been wrongly convicted, unlike many parts of the USA, she will still be alive to walk free.

Her parents should be pleased she will not be murdered in a USA jail as so many people are.

She is lucky she chose to murder someone in the EU.

E.J.Armstrong · 6th December 2009, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by the US government.

What about the people killed by US officals in Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, other secret gulags and Baghram airbase. Oh you're right. They were never convicted of anything.

'..."Out of 2,545 potentially death penalty-eligible defendants in the past 19 years, the Department of Justice has sought capital punishment against 431 of them. Of that number, just 59 have been sentenced to die." (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Oct. 28, 2007).

"Since the federal government got back into the death penalty business in 1988, attorneys general have authorized 420 prosecutions, according to statistics kept by the Federal Death Penalty Resource Counsel Project: 180 during the 1990s, an average of 18 per year, and 240 since 2000, an average of 40 per year, mostly attributable to the Bush administration. "Of the 420 authorized prosecutions, 162 actually reached trial and sentencing. ...'
from http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/federal-death-penalty

The deliberate killing, by the state, of people who may actually be found innocent in the future is no more and no less than murder.

Luckily for Knox the EU does not officially murder people in that disgusting manner, so she will be alive to be freed, if she is ever found innocent. Both she and her parents should be grateful the EU is not like the USA.

Tailgater · 6th December 2009, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder when in many areas of the USA she would have had people consumed by bloodlust gawping at her death throes in a US murder unit.

She is also lucky that in the future, if there is any evidence that demonstrates she has been wrongly convicted, unlike many parts of the USA, she will still be alive to walk free.

Her parents should be pleased she will not be murdered in a USA jail as so many people are.

She is lucky she chose to murder someone in the EU.

To be fair, there is no death penalty for doing cartwheels.

E.J.Armstrong · 6th December 2009, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Tailgater

To be fair, there is no death penalty for doing cartwheels.

Or throwing stones or making rude comments about your leader or for being rude to policemen or even murder.

The Knox family should be pleased their daughter murdered someone in the EU. They will get her back in due course and they won't have anyone gawping at her as the EU murders her officially - because the EU does not behave so disgustingly.

Skeptic · 6th December 2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder when in many areas of the USA she would have had people consumed by bloodlust gawping at her death throes in a US murder unit.

I say that it's a damn shame for Europe, letting murderers off after serving a sentence, often to kill again.

Skeptic · 6th December 2009, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Tailgater

To be fair, there is no death penalty for doing cartwheels.

There should be...

rustypouch · 6th December 2009, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by the US government.

I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it?

Newtons Bit · 6th December 2009, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by rustypouch

I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it?

Not always. Both the federal government and the state governments that have not banned it execute people.

The Central Scrutinizer · 6th December 2009, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

What about the people killed by US officals in Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, other secret gulags and Baghram airbase. Oh you're right. They were never convicted of anything.

Do you have a list of those who were murdered in the secret "gulags"?

(Hint: the answer is "no")

The Central Scrutinizer · 6th December 2009, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

The deliberate killing, by the state, of people who may actually be found innocent in the future is no more and no less than murder.

Then why aren't those who committed the "murder" in prison?

The Central Scrutinizer · 6th December 2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by rustypouch

I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it?

Both do it.

But I can amend my claim to say that not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by any state in the US.

Darth Rotor · 6th December 2009, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder

The same thing I have to say for any criminal who serves their time.

Debt paid to society.

(You might be interested in knowing that most murder convictions in the US DON'T get the death penalty. )

Pip pip, check your facts before bloviating, if you please.

DR

Cainkane1 · 6th December 2009, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

In Europe we are more civilised than that.

It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed.

All in all 2 -0 to Europe.

PS
If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty.

PPS
If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences?

In America only pre meditated murder is punished by death. There also has to be aggravaing circumstances. I'm not really familiar with this case but if Ms. Knox planned this murder and then killed her victim under heineous circumstances then in my opinion she would deserve the ultimate penalty. Its not supposed to be revenge its supposed to be a deterrant.

Cainkane1 · 6th December 2009, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

I say that it's a damn shame for Europe, letting murderers off after serving a sentence, often to kill again.

Same thing happens in the USA. There have definitely been cases of paroled murderers going on to commit other murders. Look up Kenneth McDuff for a very good example.

Not every state in the USA has the death penalty. I would not be adverse to life with no parole.

KoihimeNakamura · 6th December 2009, 01:21 PM

Most people get life with no parole in this situation, actually.

fuelair · 6th December 2009, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

In Europe we are more civilised than that.

It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed.

All in all 2 -0 to Europe.

PS
If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty.

PPS
If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences?

When hell freezes over would be my guess

. Oh, wait, there is no hell - so that would,then, be never.

Skeptic · 6th December 2009, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

In Europe we are more civilised than that.

Yet, as a Jew, somehow lots of my relatives in Europe were murdered by the state in civilized Europe, while none of my relatives in the USA were.

Funny how that goes.

Sledge · 7th December 2009, 02:34 AM

So you're not of Native American descent, then?

Btw, how far back are we allowed to go in this? Are we going to be allowed to bitch at the French for invading England, or should we agree on a cut off date?

commandlinegamer · 7th December 2009, 03:27 AM

This thread is hardly worthy of this forum, should be in AAH.

linusrichard · 7th December 2009, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by rustypouch

I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it?

No, it's because murder is, by definition, unlawful. Capital punishment, being lawful, is never murder. (I don't say this to defend capital punishment; I oppose it. But I recognize that "murder" is a legal category, and capital punishment does not belong in that category.)

Sledge · 7th December 2009, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

This thread is hardly worthy of this forum, should be in AAH.

It was spun off a thread insisting that a woman was convincted of murder because of her gymnastics. It was never going to end well.

Darth Rotor · 7th December 2009, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Sledge

So you're not of Native American descent, then?

Btw, how far back are we allowed to go in this? Are we going to be allowed to bitch at the French for invading England, or should we agree on a cut off date?

It might be more useful to blame the Cro Magnon ...

qayak · 7th December 2009, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

It might be more useful to blame the Cro Magnon ...

. . . or Obama.

Beerina · 7th December 2009, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

In Europe we are more civilised than that.

Good to know that our efforts in WW II changed your minds. It's rare to receive praise for the US nowadays.

Quote:

It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed.

Yes, but one could also argue there's less resistance to fraud in convictions (which, I will point out, I don't think applies in this case.)

Quote:

All in all 2 -0 to Europe.

PS
If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty.

PPS
If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences?

If they were rogue agents, they should be sent back. If not, and they were acting on official orders of the US government, they should not, nor should there be a conviction, because this is a diplomatic issue between nations. Unless it were a true, international war crimes trial, which this wasn't.

NoZed Avenger · 7th December 2009, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

She is lucky she chose to murder someone in the EU.

Quite the incentive system you've set up there, old boy.

Pip pip.

Donal · 7th December 2009, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

Or throwing stones or making rude comments about your leader or for being rude to policemen or even murder.

The Knox family should be pleased their daughter murdered someone in the EU. They will get her back in due course and they won't have anyone gawping at her as the EU murders her officially - because the EU does not behave so disgustingly.

Is that because the EU is just so much more civilized than the United States of Amerikkka? Or because the EU isn't actually a government and doesn't prosecute such crimes?

brodski · 7th December 2009, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

because the EU isn't actually a government and doesn't prosecute such crimes?

Or perhaps because the membership of the EU requires that members states give up the right impose a judicial sentence of death in any and all circumstances?

Donal · 7th December 2009, 01:17 PM

Except it doesn't. The EU on principal refers to Article 13 of the European Convention on Human Rights (which still doesn't outright ban the death penalty), but not all member nations have ratified it.

Besides, there is a difference between Italy and the EU

gtc · 7th December 2009, 01:25 PM

Is it simply that the OP can't stand the idea that the US is run by a black man?

Darth Rotor · 7th December 2009, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

Besides, there is a difference between Italy and the EU

IIRC, while Italy does not have the death penalty, it condemned the lira to death by joining the EU's euro monetary union.

DR

dudalb · 7th December 2009, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by gtc

Is it simply that the OP can't stand the idea that the US is run by a black man?

Nah, The OP can't stand Americans, period, regardless of race or creed.

Bill Thompson · 7th December 2009, 08:48 PM

Where is the original thread?

How did she do it if somone else is convicted?

How did she do it without leaving any physical evidence?

Agatha · 8th December 2009, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

Where is the original thread?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161229

Quote:

How did she do it if somone else is convicted?

The court found that three of them acted together

Quote:

How did she do it without leaving any physical evidence?

What makes you suggest that there was no physical evidence? The other thread may give you some further information.

Sledge · 8th December 2009, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

It might be more useful to blame the Cro Magnon ...

What's evolution ever done for us?

loverofzion · 22nd September 2010, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Then why aren't those who committed the "murder" in prison?

They are.
And you don't need to put murder in quotation marks.
There WAS a real live murder and the convicted are where they are supposed to be.

loverofzion · 22nd September 2010, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Yet, as a Jew, somehow lots of my relatives in Europe were murdered by the state in civilized Europe, while none of my relatives in the USA were.

Funny how that goes.

Let me underline that: Europe headed by Germany, home to Faust and Beethoven, etc- put to death 6 million Jewish women, children and men for no other reason other than they had been born Jewish.

Civilized huh?

5th December 2009, 07:42 AM	#1
E.J.Armstrong Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,825	Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes. In Europe we are more civilised than that. It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed. All in all 2 -0 to Europe. PS If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty. PPS If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences?
	__________________ “Everybody is somebody’s Jew. And today the Palestinians are the Jews of the Israelis.” Primo Levi Capitalist (n) Someone who pays himself and his friends billions of dollars of your money as a reward for destroying your entire economy. Israelis are taught that Palestinians are not human beings like them. Gideon Levy The Punishment of Gaza

5th December 2009, 07:53 AM	#2
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,255	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong PS If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty. PPS If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences? Blatant attempted derail reported. Note and FYI: the number of appeals anyone on death row in the US is eligible for is greater than one. The appeals process in Italy I don't understand well enough, so I'll wait and see. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

5th December 2009, 08:11 AM	#3
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,268	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes. Not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by the US government.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

5th December 2009, 09:31 AM	#4
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,536	Originally Posted by lionking I've followed this case in local papers and over the web. "Innocent victim of unfair, corrupt foreign legal system" just doesn't wash. I can't believe this is what you got from following the case. OTOH, one of the issues that exist which led me to start the thread is that the US news of this event and the Italian news coverage of this event were starkly different. So being in Australia, it interests me what was reported in your news. I have also followed the case from time to time, and I have a completely different picture of a travesty of justice. But it isn't so much a 'corrupt' legal system as it is more of a bigoted population and a cultural clash similar to how many blacks were lynched in the South in this country half a century ago.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

6th December 2009, 09:26 AM	#5
E.J.Armstrong Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,825	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Blatant attempted derail reported. Note and FYI: the number of appeals anyone on death row in the US is eligible for is greater than one. The appeals process in Italy I don't understand well enough, so I'll wait and see. DR So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder when in many areas of the USA she would have had people consumed by bloodlust gawping at her death throes in a US murder unit. She is also lucky that in the future, if there is any evidence that demonstrates she has been wrongly convicted, unlike many parts of the USA, she will still be alive to walk free. Her parents should be pleased she will not be murdered in a USA jail as so many people are. She is lucky she chose to murder someone in the EU.
	__________________ “Everybody is somebody’s Jew. And today the Palestinians are the Jews of the Israelis.” Primo Levi Capitalist (n) Someone who pays himself and his friends billions of dollars of your money as a reward for destroying your entire economy. Israelis are taught that Palestinians are not human beings like them. Gideon Levy The Punishment of Gaza Last edited by E.J.Armstrong; 6th December 2009 at 09:27 AM.

6th December 2009, 09:40 AM	#6
E.J.Armstrong Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,825	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by the US government. What about the people killed by US officals in Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, other secret gulags and Baghram airbase. Oh you're right. They were never convicted of anything. '..."Out of 2,545 potentially death penalty-eligible defendants in the past 19 years, the Department of Justice has sought capital punishment against 431 of them. Of that number, just 59 have been sentenced to die." (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Oct. 28, 2007). "Since the federal government got back into the death penalty business in 1988, attorneys general have authorized 420 prosecutions, according to statistics kept by the Federal Death Penalty Resource Counsel Project: 180 during the 1990s, an average of 18 per year, and 240 since 2000, an average of 40 per year, mostly attributable to the Bush administration. "Of the 420 authorized prosecutions, 162 actually reached trial and sentencing. ...' from http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/federal-death-penalty The deliberate killing, by the state, of people who may actually be found innocent in the future is no more and no less than murder. Luckily for Knox the EU does not officially murder people in that disgusting manner, so she will be alive to be freed, if she is ever found innocent. Both she and her parents should be grateful the EU is not like the USA.
	__________________ “Everybody is somebody’s Jew. And today the Palestinians are the Jews of the Israelis.” Primo Levi Capitalist (n) Someone who pays himself and his friends billions of dollars of your money as a reward for destroying your entire economy. Israelis are taught that Palestinians are not human beings like them. Gideon Levy The Punishment of Gaza

6th December 2009, 09:45 AM	#7
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,212	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder when in many areas of the USA she would have had people consumed by bloodlust gawping at her death throes in a US murder unit. She is also lucky that in the future, if there is any evidence that demonstrates she has been wrongly convicted, unlike many parts of the USA, she will still be alive to walk free. Her parents should be pleased she will not be murdered in a USA jail as so many people are. She is lucky she chose to murder someone in the EU. To be fair, there is no death penalty for doing cartwheels.
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,212

6th December 2009, 11:00 AM	#8
E.J.Armstrong Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,825	Originally Posted by Tailgater To be fair, there is no death penalty for doing cartwheels. Or throwing stones or making rude comments about your leader or for being rude to policemen or even murder. The Knox family should be pleased their daughter murdered someone in the EU. They will get her back in due course and they won't have anyone gawping at her as the EU murders her officially - because the EU does not behave so disgustingly.
	__________________ “Everybody is somebody’s Jew. And today the Palestinians are the Jews of the Israelis.” Primo Levi Capitalist (n) Someone who pays himself and his friends billions of dollars of your money as a reward for destroying your entire economy. Israelis are taught that Palestinians are not human beings like them. Gideon Levy The Punishment of Gaza

6th December 2009, 11:10 AM	#9
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Quote: So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder when in many areas of the USA she would have had people consumed by bloodlust gawping at her death throes in a US murder unit. I say that it's a damn shame for Europe, letting murderers off after serving a sentence, often to kill again.

6th December 2009, 11:11 AM	#10
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Originally Posted by Tailgater To be fair, there is no death penalty for doing cartwheels. There should be...

6th December 2009, 11:16 AM	#11
rustypouch Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Belfort Posts: 5,122	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by the US government. I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it?

6th December 2009, 11:41 AM	#12
Newtons Bit Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,886	Originally Posted by rustypouch I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it? Not always. Both the federal government and the state governments that have not banned it execute people.
Newtons Bit Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,886	__________________ "Structural Engineering is the art of molding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyze so as to understand forces we cannot really assess in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our own ignorance." James E Amrhein My website.

6th December 2009, 12:04 PM	#13
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,268	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong What about the people killed by US officals in Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, other secret gulags and Baghram airbase. Oh you're right. They were never convicted of anything. Do you have a list of those who were murdered in the secret "gulags"? (Hint: the answer is "no")
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

6th December 2009, 12:05 PM	#14
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,268	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong The deliberate killing, by the state, of people who may actually be found innocent in the future is no more and no less than murder. Then why aren't those who committed the "murder" in prison?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

6th December 2009, 12:07 PM	#15
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,268	Originally Posted by rustypouch I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it? Both do it. But I can amend my claim to say that not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by any state in the US.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

6th December 2009, 12:52 PM	#16
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,255	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder The same thing I have to say for any criminal who serves their time. Debt paid to society. (You might be interested in knowing that most murder convictions in the US DON'T get the death penalty. ) Pip pip, check your facts before bloviating, if you please. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

6th December 2009, 01:05 PM	#17
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,192	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes. In Europe we are more civilised than that. It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed. All in all 2 -0 to Europe. PS If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty. PPS If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences? In America only pre meditated murder is punished by death. There also has to be aggravaing circumstances. I'm not really familiar with this case but if Ms. Knox planned this murder and then killed her victim under heineous circumstances then in my opinion she would deserve the ultimate penalty. Its not supposed to be revenge its supposed to be a deterrant.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

6th December 2009, 01:10 PM	#18
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,192	Originally Posted by Skeptic I say that it's a damn shame for Europe, letting murderers off after serving a sentence, often to kill again. Same thing happens in the USA. There have definitely been cases of paroled murderers going on to commit other murders. Look up Kenneth McDuff for a very good example. Not every state in the USA has the death penalty. I would not be adverse to life with no parole.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

6th December 2009, 01:21 PM	#19
KoihimeNakamura Creativity Murderer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Graham, WA Posts: 6,852	Most people get life with no parole in this situation, actually.
	__________________ Don't mind me.

6th December 2009, 02:00 PM	#20
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,911	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes. In Europe we are more civilised than that. It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed. All in all 2 -0 to Europe. PS If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty. PPS If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences? When hell freezes over would be my guess. Oh, wait, there is no hell - so that would,then, be never.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,911	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

6th December 2009, 02:08 PM	#21
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes. In Europe we are more civilised than that. Yet, as a Jew, somehow lots of my relatives in Europe were murdered by the state in civilized Europe, while none of my relatives in the USA were. Funny how that goes.
	Last edited by Skeptic; 6th December 2009 at 02:23 PM.

7th December 2009, 02:34 AM	#22
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	So you're not of Native American descent, then? Btw, how far back are we allowed to go in this? Are we going to be allowed to bitch at the French for invading England, or should we agree on a cut off date?
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

7th December 2009, 03:27 AM	#23
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 5,891	This thread is hardly worthy of this forum, should be in AAH.

7th December 2009, 04:14 AM	#24
linusrichard Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lansing, Mich. Posts: 2,664	Originally Posted by rustypouch I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it? No, it's because murder is, by definition, unlawful. Capital punishment, being lawful, is never murder. (I don't say this to defend capital punishment; I oppose it. But I recognize that "murder" is a legal category, and capital punishment does not belong in that category.)
	__________________ "We are talking about an old ladies genitals after all." - ponderingturtle

7th December 2009, 06:37 AM	#25
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by commandlinegamer This thread is hardly worthy of this forum, should be in AAH. It was spun off a thread insisting that a woman was convincted of murder because of her gymnastics. It was never going to end well.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

7th December 2009, 06:46 AM	#26
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,255	Originally Posted by Sledge So you're not of Native American descent, then? Btw, how far back are we allowed to go in this? Are we going to be allowed to bitch at the French for invading England, or should we agree on a cut off date? It might be more useful to blame the Cro Magnon ...
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

7th December 2009, 07:28 AM	#27
qayak Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 8,710	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor It might be more useful to blame the Cro Magnon ... . . . or Obama.
qayak Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 8,710	__________________ "The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them." (Mark Twain)

7th December 2009, 08:55 AM	#28
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes. In Europe we are more civilised than that. Good to know that our efforts in WW II changed your minds. It's rare to receive praise for the US nowadays. Quote: It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed. Yes, but one could also argue there's less resistance to fraud in convictions (which, I will point out, I don't think applies in this case.) Quote: All in all 2 -0 to Europe. PS If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty. PPS If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences? If they were rogue agents, they should be sent back. If not, and they were acting on official orders of the US government, they should not, nor should there be a conviction, because this is a diplomatic issue between nations. Unless it were a true, international war crimes trial, which this wasn't.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

7th December 2009, 09:02 AM	#29
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 11,313	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong She is lucky she chose to murder someone in the EU. Quite the incentive system you've set up there, old boy. Pip pip.

7th December 2009, 12:02 PM	#30
Donal Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 2,128	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong Or throwing stones or making rude comments about your leader or for being rude to policemen or even murder. The Knox family should be pleased their daughter murdered someone in the EU. They will get her back in due course and they won't have anyone gawping at her as the EU murders her officially - because the EU does not behave so disgustingly. Is that because the EU is just so much more civilized than the United States of Amerikkka? Or because the EU isn't actually a government and doesn't prosecute such crimes?

7th December 2009, 12:16 PM	#31
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,074	Originally Posted by Donal because the EU isn't actually a government and doesn't prosecute such crimes? Or perhaps because the membership of the EU requires that members states give up the right impose a judicial sentence of death in any and all circumstances?
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,074

7th December 2009, 01:17 PM	#32
Donal Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 2,128	Except it doesn't. The EU on principal refers to Article 13 of the European Convention on Human Rights (which still doesn't outright ban the death penalty), but not all member nations have ratified it. Besides, there is a difference between Italy and the EU

7th December 2009, 01:25 PM	#33
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the downunderverse Posts: 7,114	Is it simply that the OP can't stand the idea that the US is run by a black man?
	__________________

7th December 2009, 01:31 PM	#34
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,255	Originally Posted by Donal Besides, there is a difference between Italy and the EU IIRC, while Italy does not have the death penalty, it condemned the lira to death by joining the EU's euro monetary union. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

7th December 2009, 02:11 PM	#35
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,797	Originally Posted by gtc Is it simply that the OP can't stand the idea that the US is run by a black man? Nah, The OP can't stand Americans, period, regardless of race or creed.