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Tags atheism , david mabus , Dennis Markuze

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Old 23rd May 2012, 09:42 AM   #81
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Another update:

It appears he posted a another YouTube video last Thursday, May 17. (The first post-arrest video was posted March 28). Both videos link to that same forum thread at dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net in which he has posted approximately 30 times since December.

I immediately called the Montreal Police (SPVM) last Thursday to alert them to this. Unfortunately the original detective on the case is on a medical leave and unavailable. But another detective called me back on Friday and again confirmed that he is under an order to not use the Internet or even have in his possession a device that allows him to do so. So if in fact these posts were made by him, he is in violation.

Unfortunately, that takes some effort to prove. They would need to subpoena the relevant user's IP address from Google or the other web site owner, then get a warrant to request the user's real identity from their ISP. We know from his past behavior that "Mabus" uses WiFi access points and other internet locations that are difficult or impossible to tie to him personally. Also, he could claim that he gave his passwords on these accounts to someone else to post on his behalf.

All of that means the SPVM is unlikely to follow up on this with an investigation, they have much more pressing things to work on.

However, my complaint was put in his file, and if his case comes back in front of the judge one hopes this issue will be raised.

I'll try to follow up, I may try calling his personal defense attorney again, who I spoke to once before. He was surprisingly communicative at that time, I expected reticence.
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Old 24th May 2012, 02:54 PM   #82
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Another update:

I missed it, but Geek Goddess and William Raillant-Clark both noticed that last Sunday, May 20, it appears that Mabus created a new YouTube account and posted four videos.

In his typical fashion from before, these videos are merely copies of content from elsewhere, including at least one copied from the JREF's YouTube channel. The only change is to alter the title to be something inflammatory or insulting, and to put a link to the forum where he posts in the comments.

In a new move, the "tags" on some of the videos contain the names of some of the people he has harrassed in the past including myself, Clark, Randi and so on.

You can see it all here in the "Atheistz Paradisez" YouTube channel.

Knowing the SPVM likes to drag their feet on this, I decided to call Mabus' personal attorney, who I have spoken with before. I just now got off the phone with him. Here's what he told me:

The case was just completed on Tuesday May 22nd, this week. Dennis pled guilty to threatening 8 people and received a suspended sentence.

He was released under an order not to communicate with any of those people. He is allowed to have access to a computer and to the Internet for work related purposes only.

He is specifically forbidden to be accessing social network sites or similar sites where he posted threats before.

I think he is clearly in violation of this, but actually before Tuesday he was under a stricter order that did not permit ANY Internet access. So all of the aforementioned posts, which happened prior to the Tuesday hearing, were a violation.

Markuze's attorney assured me that he has contacted Dennis about these violations, but he got an answering service and is waiting for Dennis to call him back.
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Old 24th May 2012, 04:30 PM   #83
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Can I suggest that these videos are a test? Do nothing and the Internet would be flooded with Dennis' spam as it was before the trial.
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Old 26th May 2012, 03:56 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
The case was just completed on Tuesday May 22nd, this week. Dennis pled guilty to threatening 8 people and received a suspended sentence.
Just out of curiosity, was he also mandated to seek mental health counseling?
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Old 26th May 2012, 04:00 AM   #85
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I've had a quick look in my various spam filters and it doesn't look as if he sent anything to the various JREF email addresses I look after.
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Old 26th May 2012, 05:20 AM   #86
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desertgal: Yes, the details of that are in my earlier posts in this thread, also see the post on the main randi.org blog that I link to from this thread.

Darat: That's good news. I have also seen no evidence that he has tried to contact anyone directly to resume his earlier pattern of personal harassment. Understandable given the court has admonished him about this.

That having been said, the rate at which he has posted at lifediscussion.net has definitely increased over the last few months. One could assume that he has gotten bolder as time has gone on and his violations haven't been noticed by the authorities.

On the other hand, he hasn't posted there or on YouTube since the Tuesday court appearance. I've got my fingers crossed.
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:22 PM   #87
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Coverage today in the Montreal Gazette regarding Markuze:

Montreal man pleads guilty to issuing internet threats

Quote:
Dennis Markuze, 40, recently received a suspended 18-month sentence after he pleaded guilty to uttering threats toward eight people. The case was heard at the Montreal courthouse.

Markuze, a resident of St. Laurent, was ordered to "abstain from participating in a social network, blog and discussion forum" during the sentence.

According to documents filed in the case, Markuze resided at Freedom House, a rehabilitation centre, to deal with problems he had with drugs and alcohol, before he entered his guilty plea. According to the documents, he began consuming marijuana at age 15 and cocaine at age 23. At 25, he started drinking heavily, according to an assessment filed in his case in March. He attributed the drug problem to feeling alienated after his family moved to Montreal, from England, when he was 11.
The article now has a quote from me near the end that was added after I spoke with Cherry (see below):

Quote:
Raillant-Clark and Tim Farley, a resident of Atlanta who was threatened by Markuze “for three or four years” said they believe Markuze resumed his anti-atheist postings even before he was sentenced. Waxman said on Friday that he asked Markuze about the allegation and said his client denied it.

“He said he only uses a computer for work,” Waxman said.
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Last edited by krelnik; 1st June 2012 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Quote updated to match changes in article.
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:48 PM   #88
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I just spoke with Paul Cherry who wrote the article I linked above.

The eight people Markuze pled guilty to threatening are (in fairly random order):

James Randi
William Raillant-Clark
myself
Jonathan Abrams (of Ottawa Skeptics)
Heather Henderson (of Ardent Atheists and Penn's NoGod Band)
Steve Thoms (of Skeptic North)
Kyle Vander Beek (of change.org, he built the petition)
David Almand Smith

I must confess I have no idea who that last person is, I suspect it might be someone I know only by their Twitter handle.

Isn't it sad that I had to get this info from the reporter, instead of the court or police notifying me?
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Old 2nd June 2012, 08:53 AM   #89
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Some of you may be curious, as I was, as to why there were only 8 people on the "do not contact" list when Markuze was originally charged with 16 counts.

I asked the reporter this today, and he said that originally there were two counts per victim, one of harassment and one of making threats. That makes perfect sense, even matching the fact that he was originally charged with 2 counts when arrested (those were for William Raillant-Clark, the original local complaintant) and then 14 more at his court appearance later in that week (other people, some of whom I put in touch with the detective).

Last week he pled out on the threat charges and I assume dropping the harassment charges was part of the plea deal.

One interesting aspect of this is it confirms something I've suspected for a long time regarding activism in our community: two of the most prominent people who have repeatedly blogged about Markuze and complained of his harassment, clearly never bothered to follow up with the police.

This was even after I personally emailed both of these bloggers the direct phone number for the detective and told them she wanted victims to put on the charge list and the eventual "do not contact" list.

It confirms my perception of these two bloggers as blowhards who talk a mean game on their respective blogs, but when push comes to shove can't be bothered to actually DO anything that is required of them. Sad, really.
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Old 2nd June 2012, 09:06 AM   #90
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Oh, and apologies to David Almandsmith, whose name I misspelled above. He works for Eugenie Scott at the National Center for Science Education.
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Old 2nd June 2012, 10:45 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
Some of you may be curious, as I was, as to why there were only 8 people on the "do not contact" list when Markuze was originally charged with 16 counts.

I asked the reporter this today, and he said that originally there were two counts per victim, one of harassment and one of making threats. That makes perfect sense, even matching the fact that he was originally charged with 2 counts when arrested (those were for William Raillant-Clark, the original local complaintant) and then 14 more at his court appearance later in that week (other people, some of whom I put in touch with the detective).

Last week he pled out on the threat charges and I assume dropping the harassment charges was part of the plea deal.

One interesting aspect of this is it confirms something I've suspected for a long time regarding activism in our community: two of the most prominent people who have repeatedly blogged about Markuze and complained of his harassment, clearly never bothered to follow up with the police.

This was even after I personally emailed both of these bloggers the direct phone number for the detective and told them she wanted victims to put on the charge list and the eventual "do not contact" list.

It confirms my perception of these two bloggers as blowhards who talk a mean game on their respective blogs, but when push comes to shove can't be bothered to actually DO anything that is required of them. Sad, really.
Thanks for the info.
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Old 7th June 2012, 05:31 AM   #92
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6/4 Update

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...505/story.html
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Old 7th June 2012, 07:06 PM   #93
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I think if David stops the illegal behaviour then that is all what we can ask the justice system to do. If he has done any damage then let people sue him.


Edit. Of course if he starts up again then throw him in jail.

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Old 20th June 2012, 08:36 AM   #94
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A wild "Michael Nostradamus" has appeared...

I don't remember Mabus having an alias by that name, but the videos look familiar.
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Old 20th June 2012, 09:58 AM   #95
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Yes, I am aware of as many as 6 different YouTube channels with Mabus-like content that have been created between May 14 and June 17. Many of the videos have tags at the bottom mentioning prominent skeptics (including myself) and almost all of them have links to a thread in a philosophy forum that he was frequenting up until May 20.

Assuming this is not a copycat of some kind, I believe he is inviolation of the terms of his 18 month sentence.

I called the Montreal Crown Prosecutor's office this morning and left a message for the attorney in charge of the case. I will update when I know more.
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Old 20th June 2012, 01:30 PM   #96
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You might want to CC the press when you contact the authorities. It might make them take it more seriously if they know (or believe) that the press is watching them.

Ward
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Old 4th July 2012, 10:09 PM   #97
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Is this our good friend at work? Looks very similar to previous work of his.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6Ta.../videos?view=0


Edit. All six videos were created three days ago.

Edit2. This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7-IYS5AubQ&feature=plcp has the following tags
FTB freethought blogs PZ Myers Greg Laden Ed Brayton Adam Lee Ashley Miller Brianne Bilyeu Russell Glasser Ian Cromwell Al Stefanelli Justin Griffith Ophelia Benson Hemant Mehta Jen McCreight Amanda Marcotte Greta Christina Josh Rosenau


Edit3 More from the same person
Warning. WOT says this site has a poor reputation.

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Old 5th July 2012, 04:37 AM   #98
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  1. Scour YouTube for latest videos by world famous internet spammer and unrelenting pest.

  2. Post links to said videos on JREF Forum.

  3. ???

  4. Profit

That about it?
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Old 5th July 2012, 05:42 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Is this our good friend at work? Looks very similar to previous work of his.
It might well be. But it is equally possible that it is a troll trying to stir things up. Lots of us are capable of copying the Mabus style, lots of us have the ability to set up fake accounts, etc.
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Old 5th July 2012, 12:40 PM   #100
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Yes, as I already stated, I do believe this is him. And yes, it is certainly possible that some sort of copycat or troll is doing this to make trouble, but it seems kind of slim to me. I've never understood the troll mindset.

I have contacted both the Montreal Police (who don't care) and the Crown Prosecutor (who will not return my call).

I also contacted a journalist at the Montreal Gazette in the hopes they might write a story about how the court seems uninterested in enforcing the terms of the order that Markuze agreed to.
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Old 5th July 2012, 12:58 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
Yes, as I already stated, I do believe this is him. And yes, it is certainly possible that some sort of copycat or troll is doing this to make trouble, but it seems kind of slim to me. I've never understood the troll mindset.


It's all about getting a reaction out of people.

Seems to work.


Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
I have contacted both the Montreal Police (who don't care) and the Crown Prosecutor (who will not return my call).


It's quite possible they have better things to do than monitor weirdos posting stuff on YouTube. It's what it's for, after all.


Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
I also contacted a journalist at the Montreal Gazette in the hopes they might write a story about how the court seems uninterested in enforcing the terms of the order that Markuze agreed to.


Assuming that the Canadian version of the Westminster System is the same as ours then enforcement falls within the purview of the police, not the court.
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Old 5th July 2012, 02:16 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
Yes, as I already stated, I do believe this is him. And yes, it is certainly possible that some sort of copycat or troll is doing this to make trouble, but it seems kind of slim to me. I've never understood the troll mindset.

I have contacted both the Montreal Police (who don't care) and the Crown Prosecutor (who will not return my call).

I also contacted a journalist at the Montreal Gazette in the hopes they might write a story about how the court seems uninterested in enforcing the terms of the order that Markuze agreed to.
Then it would be important for you to keep all records of everything you have done and found. One day it may be important information. What was the point of the order if it is not enforced?
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Old 5th July 2012, 02:50 PM   #103
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From the 6/14 Montreal Gazzette linked to above:

Quote:
During the hearing [defence lawyer] Waxman and [prosecutor] Nault made no mention of a recommendation made, in Proulx’s [a counsellor at Freedom House] assessment, that Markuze be examined by a psychiatrist.

“Since the therapy team at (Freedom House) does not have the competence necessary to make a psychiatric diagnosis, it seems to us that (Markuze) absolutely needs a follow up after he leaves the centre,” Proulx wrote.

“He sometimes makes remarks that leave us perplexed.”
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...505/story.html

It seems to me that Markuze probably has deeper psychological problems that perhaps are still untreated, if he hasn't even been seen by a psychiatrist as was recommended.

I don't think it's surprising if he's starting up again.
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Old 6th July 2012, 06:51 PM   #104
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Huh. So Mabus was finally arrested? Interesting. I looked through the thread, but didn't see it (though I probably just missed it); what exactly are the terms of his sentence?

Also:

Originally Posted by shadron View Post
I was looking into the ThinkingAtheist.com forum. That forum is small enough to be self-policing, and one of the volunteers helping out with admin duties posted this::
Nostalgia trip. That was me. I haven't been on TTA for a loooong time.
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Old 7th July 2012, 07:08 AM   #105
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He got an 18 month suspended sentence on 8 counts of making threats. The eight people listed include James Randi, and many skeptics including me (full list back in the thread).

My understanding is for the 18 months he is prohibited from contacting the 8 people, and also from using any 'social network or discussion forum'. He is only supposed to be using computers for work related purposes.

It appears he believes that YouTube is not included in that prohibition.
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Old 7th July 2012, 12:46 PM   #106
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I know the annoyance he causes but goodness me he needs help not a jail sentence. Such a shame that he can't seem to get it.
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Old 19th July 2012, 04:33 AM   #107
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Another channel http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC81e...KxmDLyg/videos

Just checked the community guidlines in YouTube
Quote:
There is zero tolerance for predatory behaviour, stalking, threats, harassment, invading privacy, or the revealing of other members' personal information. Anyone caught doing these things may be permanently banned from YouTube.
Ref: http://www.youtube.com/t/community_guidelines

Is there a chance you, krelnik, can get him via this rule?
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Old 19th July 2012, 08:51 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Another channel http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC81e...KxmDLyg/videos

Just checked the community guidlines in YouTube
Quote:
There is zero tolerance for predatory behaviour, stalking, threats, harassment, invading privacy, or the revealing of other members' personal information. Anyone caught doing these things may be permanently banned from YouTube.


Ref: http://www.youtube.com/t/community_guidelines

Is there a chance you, krelnik, can get him via this rule?


Notice anything?
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Old 21st July 2012, 04:58 PM   #109
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UPDATE:

It appears that Markuze has decided to expand beyond YouTube this week. He posted into alt.atheism on Usenet on July 15, and last night (Friday, July 20) he posted a short, identical message to several forums including Skeptic Friends, Skeptical Community, Australasian Skeptics, Think Atheist and others.

His plea agreement specifically forbids him from posting to "forums" and "social media." So I think he is clearly in violation of his terms now.

I've left two voice mails and sent emails to both the police and the prosecutor, and CC'ed the other "victims" listed on his plea agreement.

I'm going to do my best to get him picked back up this week. He clearly needs more help, and the only way he's going to get it is if the authorities get involved again.
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Old 21st July 2012, 06:34 PM   #110
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What do you think of your chances of getting picked picked up? Until he is, I predict he will slowly get worse until he is as bad as before. Only hope he does not threaten someone who can take action like before.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 10:54 AM   #111
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He appears to have posted on the Bad Science forum too. We aren't 100% certain it is him - I'd say 99%
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Old 22nd July 2012, 02:13 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Andysnat View Post
He appears to have posted on the Bad Science forum too. We aren't 100% certain it is him - I'd say 99%
Do you mean this thread? Yeah, that's the same post he's been spreading around, and the login times match his activity on the other forums.

Are you a sysop there? I could really use IP address information and the email address he used to register for that account. It will become part of the evidence we go to the authorities with this week.

I just registered over there to make this request in the thread, but still waiting for the verification email.

Thanks!
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Old 22nd July 2012, 03:41 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
Do you mean this thread[/url]? Yeah, that's the same post he's been spreading around, and the login times match his activity on the other forums.

Are you a sysop there? I could really use IP address information and the email address he used to register for that account. It will become part of the evidence we go to the authorities with this week.

I just registered over there to make this request in the thread, but still waiting for the verification email.

Thanks!
That's the puppy.

Unfortunately, it is Bad Science forum policy never to give IP address details of members, no matter who they might be. We would be castigated roundly by forum members were we to release those details.

As Mods, we don't actually have access to email addresses, but we couldn't help in that respect either.

I would imagine request from Law Enforcement might bring a different response, but that has never been tried, so we'd have to see.

I certainly feel that DM has been let down by the Canadian authorities if he's back at it again. He appears to be quite troubled, and we were very pleased that he appeared to be getting help. He'd been threatening us for a considerable length of time.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 03:45 PM   #114
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When the spammer stops spamming, post the spam for him.

A bit weird. You're all stalking him now.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 03:50 PM   #115
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It seems reasonable to keep tabs on a crazy person who has threatened your life.

Ward
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Old 22nd July 2012, 03:56 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
It seems reasonable to keep tabs on a crazy person who has threatened your life.

Ward
By threatening his freedom? In public? By stalking him and posting links to the very things you called spam?

Carry on then.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 10:14 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Malfie Henpox View Post
By threatening his freedom? In public? By stalking him and posting links to the very things you called spam?

Carry on then.
No threats. He was told to stay off public forums. We are just documenting possible breaches of this order. It would not be us who would be taking away his freedom. It would be the authorities.

To stalk him (as far as I am concerned) would involve making negative comments about him in the places where he has been. I do not see how publicly documenting what he has done is stalking. He may not even know about this thread.

For more information about what stalking is please read this article http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Stalking. I would love to read a post where someone uses that link to make a case that we are stalking David.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 10:59 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
It seems reasonable to keep tabs on a crazy person who has threatened your life.

Ward
Are these threats any more credible than the one in the Twitter joke trial?
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Old 22nd July 2012, 11:10 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
No threats. He was told to stay off public forums. We are just documenting possible breaches of this order. It would not be us who would be taking away his freedom. It would be the authorities.


You're just part of a friendly Pitchfork and Torch Carrying Club that happened to be in the area, right?


Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
To stalk him (as far as I am concerned) would involve making negative comments about him in the places where he has been.


It's hardly surprising that your personal definition of stalking doesn't include the behaviour in which you are yourself indulging.


Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I do not see how publicly documenting what he has done is stalking.


The public documentation is an end result. The stalking is what you do that leads up to you having something to document.


Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
He may not even know about this thread.


Stalking is OK as long as your victim remains unaware of it?


Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
For more information about what stalking is please read this article http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Stalking. I would love to read a post where someone uses that link to make a case that we are stalking David.


From your link:

Quote:
Stalking is a term commonly used to refer to unwanted, obsessive attention by individuals (and sometimes groups of people) to others.

Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 11:26 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Are these threats any more credible than the one in the Twitter joke trial?
I have no idea how credible the threats are. Nor was I threatened.

If I had been one of the people who'd been threatened, I might find the threats very disturbing. It's possible to look at it a couple of ways. We know this guy seems to have a pretty severe mental illness. His craziness might cause him to make idle threats that he's too crazy to carry out. He has not carried out any threats so far, so that's good. However, his craziness might cause him to reach a breaking point and actually carry out his threats. If I were a target, I'd keep an eye on him. Better safe than sorry.

It's clear that his threats are not jokes like the twitter joke thing.

Ward
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