[Merged] Israel to demand 1 billion more Euros from Germany, for Holocaust compensation

Thunder · 20th December 2009, 01:06 PM

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1136383.html

i'm sorry...but when does the guilt end?

haven't the Germans and other Europeans made enough reparations???

honestly...

...meanwhile, Israel continues to fund more settlements, demolish more Palestinian homes, strip Palestinians of their permanent residency status.

the hypocrisy never ends.

Doctor Evil · 20th December 2009, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1136383.html

i'm sorry...but when does the guilt end?

haven't the Germans and other Europeans made enough reparations???

honestly...

Reading comprehension fail.

From the story:

Quote:

Israeli officials estimate that according to a ghetto workers act passed by the German parliament in 2002, all of the 30,000 living forced labor survivors are entitled to a retroactive payment of approximately 15,000 euros each.

However, Finance Ministry officials say that according to the German government's calculations, the one-time payment is larger than that estimated by Israel, and reaches a total of 1 billion euros.

The story, as I understand it, is as follows. The compensation of forced labor is a not fully resolved issue between Israel and Germany. In 2002 a German court have passed a law regarding such compensations. However, the German government have been very slow to follow the ruling and Israeli holocaust survivor who were forced to work for the third Reich have not received the compensation according to the new law. As a result the subject was taken by the Israeli government who will apply on their behalf.

To summarize, the issue here is the application of a German law to 30000 Israeli citizens. It has nothing to do with Parky's comments, hence my reading comprehension comment.

Quote:

...meanwhile, Israel continues to fund more settlements, demolish more Palestinian homes, strip Palestinians of their permanent residency status.

And how this is connected to the right of compensation of 30000 people who were forced to work under the third Reich, according to the German law?

Quote:

the hypocrisy never ends.

Indeed, but not in the way you intended. Back to ignore.

Thunder · 20th December 2009, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Doctor Evil

Indeed, but not in the way you intended. Back to ignore.

good. sorry, but I just think the lawsuits over WW2 need to end. its time to let go.

shuize · 20th December 2009, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

good. sorry, but I just think the lawsuits over WW2 need to end. its time to let go.

I feel the same way about the Palestinian "right" of return.

Thunder · 20th December 2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by shuize

I feel the same way about the Palestinian "right" of return.

how many billions of dollars have the Palestinians received in compensation so far? none?

hmmmm...interesting comparison there. never mind the fact that the Palestinians just want their damn land back, and don't really care about money.

The Fool · 20th December 2009, 03:04 PM

Is this money going to the victims or that wackjob Netanyahu's regime?

Thunder · 20th December 2009, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by The Fool

Is this money going to the victims or that wackjob Netanyahu's regime?

there is a great deal of evidence that money received by these organizations help the organizations more than the purported victims.

but since the Israeli govt. is doing the suing, money will indeed go to the Netanyahu regime. maybe even some will go to build more illegal settlements.

shuize · 20th December 2009, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

I just think the lawsuits over WW2 need to end. its time to let go.

Jews should just let stuff go. Palestians, not so much.

Got it.

Thunder · 20th December 2009, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by shuize

Jews should just let stuff go. Palestians, not so much.

Got it.

The Jewish people, both collectively and individually, have received billions of dollars in reperations for the crimes committed against them during WW2.

The Palestinian people, however, have received nothing. They have received no land and no money, to compensate them for lost property after 1948.

Clearly, justice has been done for the Jews. But justice has yet to even begin for the Palestinians.

Slayhamlet · 20th December 2009, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

how many billions of dollars have the Palestinians received in compensation so far? none?

hmmmm...interesting comparison there. never mind the fact that the Palestinians just want their damn land back, and don't really care about money.

The 1 billion euros (according to Germany's estimate) is to be payed to survivors of Nazi work camps as compensation for their forced labor. I'm not aware of Israelis ever using Palestinians for forced labor, so in this particular case there's no comparison.

The ancillary matter of Adolf Sommerfeld's claim to land the Nazi's kicked him out of is comparable, all the more so because Germany dismissed it.

Slayhamlet · 20th December 2009, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

there is a great deal of evidence that money received by these organizations help the organizations more than the purported victims.

but since the Israeli govt. is doing the suing, money will indeed go to the Netanyahu regime. maybe even some will go to build more illegal settlements.

That's not what the article says. Either provide some evidence that this is so or stop spouting off about what you don't know to be true. Is that so hard, Parky?

Thunder · 20th December 2009, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Slayhamlet

That's not what the article says. Either provide some evidence that this is so or stop spouting off about what you don't know to be true. Is that so hard, Parky?

lets see what happens to the $$ once its dished out.

i got some relatives who were killed in the Holocaust. can I sue too????? can I?

Slayhamlet · 20th December 2009, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

The Jewish people, both collectively and individually, have received billions of dollars in reparations for the crimes committed against them during WW2.

These particular Jews haven't.

Slayhamlet · 20th December 2009, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

lets see what happens to the $$ once its dished out.

So you're going to fail to back up your statement once again, Parky? Typical.

Thunder · 20th December 2009, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Slayhamlet

So you're going to fail to back up your statement once again, Parky? Typical.

i know...right????

Slayhamlet · 20th December 2009, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

i know...right????

Yes, and apparently you're proud of it.

Any evidence on those Al Qaeda demands you made up? No? Thought so.

Thunder · 20th December 2009, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Slayhamlet

Any evidence on those Al Qaeda demands you made up? No? Thought so.

another zinger!!!

WildCat · 20th December 2009, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

good. sorry, but I just think the lawsuits over WW2 need to end. its time to let go.

So in 3 more years you'll say the Palestinians should let it go also?

Oh, I forgot, you expect more from Israel...

Skeptic · 20th December 2009, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

So in 3 more years you'll say the Palestinians should let it go also?

Oh, I forgot, you expect more from Israel...

Do you know I am a holocaust survivor?

And so are my parents, brothers, and most of my family, and my children?

Well...... not really, but my grandparents were, so (using the Palestinian definition of "refugee") so are my parents, and myself, and my children, and so on ad infinitum.

How can you expect us to forget about it when the holocaust survivor problem is still not solved, and there are more holocaust survivors every day?!

Eyeron · 20th December 2009, 10:29 PM

Okay, now how can there be more Holocaust survivors every day? If there are more holocaust survivors every day, then that means that eventually there'll be more people than there was at the time of the holocaust.

Skeptic · 20th December 2009, 10:39 PM

I don't know why not. There are now millions more Palestinian "refugees" than were actually refugees in 1948.

This applies only to Palestinians, by the way.

It's magic.

Skeptic · 20th December 2009, 10:43 PM

Parky has no idea why anybody would need zionism at all.

Well, perhaps if there was a Jewish state in 1938 instead of 1948, six million Jews would not have been slaughtered -- and then, decades later, the survivors would not be attacked for being such whiners about it.

They're acting like dead Jews is some cause for concern, all of a sudden. This "Israel" thing got really strange ideas into their head, didn't it?

kerikiwi · 20th December 2009, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

I don't know why not. There are now millions more Palestinian "refugees" than were actually refugees in 1948.

This applies only to Palestinians, by the way.

It's magic.

Where else might it apply? Where else have people been evicted from their homes to make way for someone else?

Skeptic · 20th December 2009, 11:14 PM

Well, it would apply to India, Pakistan, Germany, Russia, the Arab world (eviction of the Jews as "revenge" for zionism), all of Europe (eviction of Jews and other "undesirables"), most of the Balkan states, Turkey, Greece, many places in Africa... and in most of those cases had those evicted did not enthusiastically join the plan to genocide those from who they eventually fled in the war, like the Palestinians joined the Arab "destroy Israel" plan in 1948.

So it would apply to most of the world, really. War creates refugees everywhere. I am not trying to compare here all these cases to each other in terms of morality -- e.g., the mutual population transfers between Greece and Turkey, as painful as they were, were in no way, shape, or form equivalent to the Nazi or Soviet creation of refugees -- but merely to point out that it would apply almost universally.

But only the Palestinians are deliberately kept in refugee camps in perpetuity by their Arab "brothers"; "refugee" status passes from generation to generation automatically only in their case; any attempt to resettle them -- like Israel settled millions of refugees from the Arab world and Europe, indeed like most of the world resettled its refugees -- is rebuffed.

Why? Because the Palestinians are merely pawns, a ploy in the game whose real purpose is Israel's destruction, by the Arab world.

Thunder · 21st December 2009, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Parky has no idea why anybody would need zionism at all.

Well, perhaps if there was a Jewish state in 1938 instead of 1948, six million Jews would not have been slaughtered -- and then, decades later, the survivors would not be attacked for being such whiners about it.

#1. stop with the personal attacks.

#2. appealing to emotion is a dead end, here at JREF.

Darth Rotor · 21st December 2009, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

#2. appealing to emotion is a dead end, here at JREF.

Then why do you do it so frequently?

DR

Thunder · 21st December 2009, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Then why do you do it so frequently?

DR

um....got anything to back that up?

WildCat · 21st December 2009, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by kerikiwi

Where else might it apply? Where else have people been evicted from their homes to make way for someone else?

Well my great-grandparents were evicted from their home (without compensation) in Alcase after WWI, their crime being they spoke German.

By the Palestinian definition that makes me a refugee from the evil French.

Thunder · 21st December 2009, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Well my great-grandparents were evicted from their home (without compensation) in Alcase after WWI, their crime being they spoke German.

By the Palestinian definition that makes me a refugee from the evil French.

your family should totally sue the French. I would. My great-Aunt sued the Czechs for property confiscated by the Nazis and then held by the Communists.

She got a small amount of money, but I am going to Prague this summer and plan on "stopping by".

WildCat · 21st December 2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

your family should totally sue the French. I would. My great-Aunt sued the Czechs for property confiscated by the Nazis and then held by the Communists.

She got a small amount of money, but I am going to Prague this summer and plan on "stopping by".

No.

Damages do not pass to the next generation, and my family has long since moved on.

Besides, I wouldn't even exist if they hadn't lost their home and moved to America.

TriskettheKid · 21st December 2009, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

your family should totally sue the French. I would. My great-Aunt sued the Czechs for property confiscated by the Nazis and then held by the Communists.

She got a small amount of money, but I am going to Prague this summer and plan on "stopping by".

Who can my friend's father and grandparents sue?

They fled Egypt (to Israel), after their home and store were confiscated in 1967.

How about my other friend, who's grandmother fled with her family from Iraq in 1951?

Who can my friends' families sue? Will Egypt give them money? Or their property back? How about Iraq?

Thunder · 21st December 2009, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by TriskettheKid

They fled Egypt (to Israel), after their home and store were confiscated in 1967.

How about my other friend, who's grandmother fled with her family from Iraq in 1951?

Who can my friends' families sue? Will Egypt give them money? Or their property back? How about Iraq?

I'm sorry, who exactly is stopping you from suing?

why don't Maghreb Jews get together and sue the Arab countries for compensation for lost property?

again..who is stopping you?

TriskettheKid · 21st December 2009, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

I'm sorry, who exactly is stopping you from suing?

The fact that my family wasn't affected.

Quote:

why don't Maghreb Jews get together and sue the Arab countries for compensation for lost property?

again..who is stopping you?

I can think of a couple reasons.

What chance does a Jew have in suing for compensation in an Egyptian court? Or an Iraqi one?

Then again, I'm fairly certain both families have moved on, as hard as it was.

Thunder · 21st December 2009, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by TriskettheKid

The fact that my family wasn't affected.

then they have nothing to complain about.

Originally Posted by TriskettheKid

I can think of a couple reasons.

What chance does a Jew have in suing for compensation in an Egyptian court? Or an Iraqi one?

sounds like they are doing just fine, are too cowardly to fight for what they may deserve, or a combination of the two.

if they feel they have been denied justice, then they should fight for justice. if not, well then, Mazel Tov.

TriskettheKid · 21st December 2009, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

then they have nothing to complain about.

When did I say anything about MY family?

I said that two of my friends have these issues. One's family used to live in Egypt, prior to 1967. The other had a grandparent leave Iraq in 1951.

Quote:

sounds like they are doing just fine, are too cowardly to fight for what they may deserve, or a combination of the two.

if they feel they have been denied justice, then they should fight for justice. if not, well then, Mazel Tov.

Right. Because obviously the only reason they haven't sued for compensation is because they are cowards.

I'm SURE that is the answer. There is no other, bleeding obvious, reason as to why they haven't sued or fought for proper compensation.

Fact of the matter is, they've moved on. Like practically every other refugee population.

Thunder · 21st December 2009, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by TriskettheKid

Fact of the matter is, they've moved on. Like practically every other refugee population.

except, of course, for Holocaust survivors. apparently, the lawsuits will finally end the day the last European Jew born before 1945, is dead.

...maybe. and maybe not.

TriskettheKid · 21st December 2009, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

except, of course, for Holocaust survivors. apparently, the lawsuits will finally end the day the last European Jew born before 1945, is dead.

...maybe. and maybe not.

They have cause. They were actually in the camps. Just like the Japanese the US put in camps (of a wildly different kind) on the West Coast.

Point being, of course, the Holocaust survivors aren't "refugees" so much as they are survivors. They actually had things happen to them.

They were, for lack of a better term, state property.

ETA:

For a point of reference, I'm using the dictionary definitions of "refugee." The survivors were not refugees until after the war and they were liberated. Prior to that, they were victims.

Thunder · 21st December 2009, 03:08 PM

Arab states exiled Jews and confiscated property. These Jews, regardless of where they are today or their condition, have cause to sue.

its not my fault..or the Palestinians fault..if they choose not to sue.

justice delayed is justice denied.

Holocaust survivors had every right to sue Germany for pain, suffering, and lost property, after the nightmare of WW2.

but billions have been donated, and billions more in equipment and supplies given to Israel. I personally think the Holocaust needs to be put to rest.

though, others want to keep the memory of the Holocaust burning brightly, for purely political reasons.

TriskettheKid · 21st December 2009, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

Arab states exiled Jews and confiscated property. These Jews, regardless of where they are today or their condition, have cause to sue.

its not my fault..or the Palestinians fault..if they choose not to sue.

justice delayed is justice denied.

What kind of sense does this make?

Do the Arab states operate with the same kind of law system as, say, the US or the UK? CAN these people sue? Or do they have to petition the government?

More to the point: does it even matter? Is there any chance they could win in Egypt? In Iraq?

And who the hell said anything about blaming the Palestinians?

This seems to be a problem that permeates your posts. Stop implicating and making arguments that aren't there to begin with.

Oliver · 22nd December 2009, 08:13 AM

Haaaahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaawhat?

Quote:

Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz will demand between 450 million to 1 billion euros in reparations from Germany on behalf of Jews forced into slave labor during the Holocaust, it emerged on Sunday.

Minister Steinitz will reportedly present German government with the demand on behalf of 30,000 Israeli survivors of forced labor in wartime ghettos, during a joint session scheduled to take place in early 2010 in Berlin...

Full source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1136383.html

20th December 2009, 01:06 PM	#1
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Israel to demand 1 billion more Euros from Germany, for Holocaust compensation http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1136383.html i'm sorry...but when does the guilt end? haven't the Germans and other Europeans made enough reparations??? honestly... ...meanwhile, Israel continues to fund more settlements, demolish more Palestinian homes, strip Palestinians of their permanent residency status. the hypocrisy never ends.
	Last edited by Thunder; 20th December 2009 at 01:08 PM.

20th December 2009, 02:38 PM	#5
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by shuize I feel the same way about the Palestinian "right" of return. how many billions of dollars have the Palestinians received in compensation so far? none? hmmmm...interesting comparison there. never mind the fact that the Palestinians just want their damn land back, and don't really care about money.
	Last edited by Thunder; 20th December 2009 at 02:40 PM.

20th December 2009, 03:04 PM	#6
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Is this money going to the victims or that wackjob Netanyahu's regime?
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

20th December 2009, 08:03 PM	#12
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by Slayhamlet That's not what the article says. Either provide some evidence that this is so or stop spouting off about what you don't know to be true. Is that so hard, Parky? lets see what happens to the $$ once its dished out. i got some relatives who were killed in the Holocaust. can I sue too????? can I?
	Last edited by Thunder; 20th December 2009 at 08:04 PM.

20th December 2009, 10:29 PM	#20
Eyeron Guest Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,774	Okay, now how can there be more Holocaust survivors every day? If there are more holocaust survivors every day, then that means that eventually there'll be more people than there was at the time of the holocaust.
Eyeron Guest Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,774

20th December 2009, 02:03 PM	#2
Doctor Evil Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Back home Posts: 1,966	Originally Posted by parky76 http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1136383.html i'm sorry...but when does the guilt end? haven't the Germans and other Europeans made enough reparations??? honestly... Reading comprehension fail. From the story: Quote: Israeli officials estimate that according to a ghetto workers act passed by the German parliament in 2002, all of the 30,000 living forced labor survivors are entitled to a retroactive payment of approximately 15,000 euros each. However, Finance Ministry officials say that according to the German government's calculations, the one-time payment is larger than that estimated by Israel, and reaches a total of 1 billion euros. The story, as I understand it, is as follows. The compensation of forced labor is a not fully resolved issue between Israel and Germany. In 2002 a German court have passed a law regarding such compensations. However, the German government have been very slow to follow the ruling and Israeli holocaust survivor who were forced to work for the third Reich have not received the compensation according to the new law. As a result the subject was taken by the Israeli government who will apply on their behalf. To summarize, the issue here is the application of a German law to 30000 Israeli citizens. It has nothing to do with Parky's comments, hence my reading comprehension comment. Quote: ...meanwhile, Israel continues to fund more settlements, demolish more Palestinian homes, strip Palestinians of their permanent residency status. And how this is connected to the right of compensation of 30000 people who were forced to work under the third Reich, according to the German law? Quote: the hypocrisy never ends. Indeed, but not in the way you intended. Back to ignore.
	__________________ "ut biberent, quando esse nollent " (if they will not eat, then they will drink) -- Publius Claudius Pulcher "In this universe, effect follows cause. I've complained about it but ... " -- House

20th December 2009, 02:06 PM	#3
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by Doctor Evil Indeed, but not in the way you intended. Back to ignore. good. sorry, but I just think the lawsuits over WW2 need to end. its time to let go.

20th December 2009, 02:37 PM	#4
shuize Master Poster Join Date: May 2002 Location: Japan Posts: 2,311	Originally Posted by parky76 good. sorry, but I just think the lawsuits over WW2 need to end. its time to let go. I feel the same way about the Palestinian "right" of return.

20th December 2009, 03:11 PM	#7
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by The Fool Is this money going to the victims or that wackjob Netanyahu's regime? there is a great deal of evidence that money received by these organizations help the organizations more than the purported victims. but since the Israeli govt. is doing the suing, money will indeed go to the Netanyahu regime. maybe even some will go to build more illegal settlements.

20th December 2009, 07:34 PM	#8
shuize Master Poster Join Date: May 2002 Location: Japan Posts: 2,311	Originally Posted by parky76 I just think the lawsuits over WW2 need to end. its time to let go. Jews should just let stuff go. Palestians, not so much. Got it.

20th December 2009, 07:51 PM	#9
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by shuize Jews should just let stuff go. Palestians, not so much. Got it. The Jewish people, both collectively and individually, have received billions of dollars in reperations for the crimes committed against them during WW2. The Palestinian people, however, have received nothing. They have received no land and no money, to compensate them for lost property after 1948. Clearly, justice has been done for the Jews. But justice has yet to even begin for the Palestinians.

20th December 2009, 07:58 PM	#10
Slayhamlet Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,427	Originally Posted by parky76 how many billions of dollars have the Palestinians received in compensation so far? none? hmmmm...interesting comparison there. never mind the fact that the Palestinians just want their damn land back, and don't really care about money. The 1 billion euros (according to Germany's estimate) is to be payed to survivors of Nazi work camps as compensation for their forced labor. I'm not aware of Israelis ever using Palestinians for forced labor, so in this particular case there's no comparison. The ancillary matter of Adolf Sommerfeld's claim to land the Nazi's kicked him out of is comparable, all the more so because Germany dismissed it.

20th December 2009, 08:02 PM	#11
Slayhamlet Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,427	Originally Posted by parky76 there is a great deal of evidence that money received by these organizations help the organizations more than the purported victims. but since the Israeli govt. is doing the suing, money will indeed go to the Netanyahu regime. maybe even some will go to build more illegal settlements. That's not what the article says. Either provide some evidence that this is so or stop spouting off about what you don't know to be true. Is that so hard, Parky?

20th December 2009, 08:03 PM	#13
Slayhamlet Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,427	Originally Posted by parky76 The Jewish people, both collectively and individually, have received billions of dollars in reparations for the crimes committed against them during WW2. These particular Jews haven't.

20th December 2009, 08:04 PM	#14
Slayhamlet Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,427	Originally Posted by parky76 lets see what happens to the $$ once its dished out. So you're going to fail to back up your statement once again, Parky? Typical.

20th December 2009, 08:05 PM	#15
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by Slayhamlet So you're going to fail to back up your statement once again, Parky? Typical. i know...right????

20th December 2009, 08:08 PM	#16
Slayhamlet Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,427	Originally Posted by parky76 i know...right???? Yes, and apparently you're proud of it. Any evidence on those Al Qaeda demands you made up? No? Thought so.

20th December 2009, 08:11 PM	#17
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by Slayhamlet Any evidence on those Al Qaeda demands you made up? No? Thought so. another zinger!!!

20th December 2009, 08:59 PM	#18
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,077	Originally Posted by parky76 good. sorry, but I just think the lawsuits over WW2 need to end. its time to let go. So in 3 more years you'll say the Palestinians should let it go also? Oh, I forgot, you expect more from Israel...

20th December 2009, 09:53 PM	#19
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Originally Posted by WildCat So in 3 more years you'll say the Palestinians should let it go also? Oh, I forgot, you expect more from Israel... Do you know I am a holocaust survivor? And so are my parents, brothers, and most of my family, and my children? Well...... not really, but my grandparents were, so (using the Palestinian definition of "refugee") so are my parents, and myself, and my children, and so on ad infinitum. How can you expect us to forget about it when the holocaust survivor problem is still not solved, and there are more holocaust survivors every day?!

20th December 2009, 10:39 PM	#21
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	I don't know why not. There are now millions more Palestinian "refugees" than were actually refugees in 1948. This applies only to Palestinians, by the way. It's magic.

20th December 2009, 10:43 PM	#22
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Parky has no idea why anybody would need zionism at all. Well, perhaps if there was a Jewish state in 1938 instead of 1948, six million Jews would not have been slaughtered -- and then, decades later, the survivors would not be attacked for being such whiners about it. They're acting like dead Jews is some cause for concern, all of a sudden. This "Israel" thing got really strange ideas into their head, didn't it?

20th December 2009, 10:58 PM	#23
kerikiwi Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bay of Islands NZ Posts: 5,846	Originally Posted by Skeptic I don't know why not. There are now millions more Palestinian "refugees" than were actually refugees in 1948. This applies only to Palestinians, by the way. It's magic. Where else might it apply? Where else have people been evicted from their homes to make way for someone else?

20th December 2009, 11:14 PM	#24
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Well, it would apply to India, Pakistan, Germany, Russia, the Arab world (eviction of the Jews as "revenge" for zionism), all of Europe (eviction of Jews and other "undesirables"), most of the Balkan states, Turkey, Greece, many places in Africa... and in most of those cases had those evicted did not enthusiastically join the plan to genocide those from who they eventually fled in the war, like the Palestinians joined the Arab "destroy Israel" plan in 1948. So it would apply to most of the world, really. War creates refugees everywhere. I am not trying to compare here all these cases to each other in terms of morality -- e.g., the mutual population transfers between Greece and Turkey, as painful as they were, were in no way, shape, or form equivalent to the Nazi or Soviet creation of refugees -- but merely to point out that it would apply almost universally. But only the Palestinians are deliberately kept in refugee camps in perpetuity by their Arab "brothers"; "refugee" status passes from generation to generation automatically only in their case; any attempt to resettle them -- like Israel settled millions of refugees from the Arab world and Europe, indeed like most of the world resettled its refugees -- is rebuffed. Why? Because the Palestinians are merely pawns, a ploy in the game whose real purpose is Israel's destruction, by the Arab world.

21st December 2009, 08:48 AM	#25
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by Skeptic Parky has no idea why anybody would need zionism at all. Well, perhaps if there was a Jewish state in 1938 instead of 1948, six million Jews would not have been slaughtered -- and then, decades later, the survivors would not be attacked for being such whiners about it. #1. stop with the personal attacks. #2. appealing to emotion is a dead end, here at JREF.

21st December 2009, 01:02 PM	#26
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,264	Originally Posted by parky76 #2. appealing to emotion is a dead end, here at JREF. Then why do you do it so frequently? DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis Last edited by Darth Rotor; 21st December 2009 at 01:06 PM.

21st December 2009, 01:07 PM	#27
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Then why do you do it so frequently? DR um....got anything to back that up?

21st December 2009, 02:06 PM	#28
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,077	Originally Posted by kerikiwi Where else might it apply? Where else have people been evicted from their homes to make way for someone else? Well my great-grandparents were evicted from their home (without compensation) in Alcase after WWI, their crime being they spoke German. By the Palestinian definition that makes me a refugee from the evil French.

21st December 2009, 02:09 PM	#29
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by WildCat Well my great-grandparents were evicted from their home (without compensation) in Alcase after WWI, their crime being they spoke German. By the Palestinian definition that makes me a refugee from the evil French. your family should totally sue the French. I would. My great-Aunt sued the Czechs for property confiscated by the Nazis and then held by the Communists. She got a small amount of money, but I am going to Prague this summer and plan on "stopping by".

21st December 2009, 02:13 PM	#30
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,077	Originally Posted by parky76 your family should totally sue the French. I would. My great-Aunt sued the Czechs for property confiscated by the Nazis and then held by the Communists. She got a small amount of money, but I am going to Prague this summer and plan on "stopping by". No. Damages do not pass to the next generation, and my family has long since moved on. Besides, I wouldn't even exist if they hadn't lost their home and moved to America.

21st December 2009, 02:21 PM	#31
TriskettheKid Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,432	Originally Posted by parky76 your family should totally sue the French. I would. My great-Aunt sued the Czechs for property confiscated by the Nazis and then held by the Communists. She got a small amount of money, but I am going to Prague this summer and plan on "stopping by". Who can my friend's father and grandparents sue? They fled Egypt (to Israel), after their home and store were confiscated in 1967. How about my other friend, who's grandmother fled with her family from Iraq in 1951? Who can my friends' families sue? Will Egypt give them money? Or their property back? How about Iraq?

21st December 2009, 02:31 PM	#32
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by TriskettheKid They fled Egypt (to Israel), after their home and store were confiscated in 1967. How about my other friend, who's grandmother fled with her family from Iraq in 1951? Who can my friends' families sue? Will Egypt give them money? Or their property back? How about Iraq? I'm sorry, who exactly is stopping you from suing? why don't Maghreb Jews get together and sue the Arab countries for compensation for lost property? again..who is stopping you?

21st December 2009, 02:35 PM	#33
TriskettheKid Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,432	Originally Posted by parky76 I'm sorry, who exactly is stopping you from suing? The fact that my family wasn't affected. Quote: why don't Maghreb Jews get together and sue the Arab countries for compensation for lost property? again..who is stopping you? I can think of a couple reasons. What chance does a Jew have in suing for compensation in an Egyptian court? Or an Iraqi one? Then again, I'm fairly certain both families have moved on, as hard as it was.

21st December 2009, 02:44 PM	#34
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by TriskettheKid The fact that my family wasn't affected. then they have nothing to complain about. Originally Posted by TriskettheKid I can think of a couple reasons. What chance does a Jew have in suing for compensation in an Egyptian court? Or an Iraqi one? sounds like they are doing just fine, are too cowardly to fight for what they may deserve, or a combination of the two. if they feel they have been denied justice, then they should fight for justice. if not, well then, Mazel Tov.

21st December 2009, 02:48 PM	#35
TriskettheKid Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,432	Originally Posted by parky76 then they have nothing to complain about. When did I say anything about MY family? I said that two of my friends have these issues. One's family used to live in Egypt, prior to 1967. The other had a grandparent leave Iraq in 1951. Quote: sounds like they are doing just fine, are too cowardly to fight for what they may deserve, or a combination of the two. if they feel they have been denied justice, then they should fight for justice. if not, well then, Mazel Tov. Right. Because obviously the only reason they haven't sued for compensation is because they are cowards. I'm SURE that is the answer. There is no other, bleeding obvious, reason as to why they haven't sued or fought for proper compensation. Fact of the matter is, they've moved on. Like practically every other refugee population.