I think I overdosed on Ibuprofen this week

Dragoonster · 21st December 2009, 11:17 PM

I've had a lot of problems with my stomach, and some with my breathing this year. And possibly my heart. Had my gall bladder removed, and a couple failed attempts at extinguishing h. pylori, but still have problems. Due to finances, extreme anxiety, and procrastination I haven't gotten a solid diagnosis yet.

Anyway a couple weeks ago and beyond I had some ear pain and took Ibuprofen, which I'd forgotten was inadvisable if having ulcers or other GI problems. Five days ago I got almost constant pain in my sternum too, so kept popping more pills, and getting more pain. A sort of cycle of stupid self-destruction in retrospect. I was trying to get through it thinking it was a temporary thing.

This morning my poop was very bloody and chest still hurt so went to the ER. Luckily my heart looked fine, and he thought it was due to the Ibuprofen working on whatever condition I have, which he thought might be GERD (plus the h. pylori). Referred me to a gastroenterologist. But I'm surprised at two things: That I'm stupid enough to not notice or remember the side-effects of Ibuprofen; and that side-effect warnings on OTC medication actually isn't there just for legal purposes. If it really was due to Ibuprofen it's the first time I've ever noticed such a side effect from such a common drug. I'm sure going to start reading labels closer.

I'm also wondering if this has worsened my condition, either for the past six or so months I've been having trouble, or maybe even done permanent damage. The bottle was 500 pills so I bought it before I'd had any trouble, and have been taking them throughout.

So...watch out and read your labels, even for everyday drugs!

athon · 21st December 2009, 11:54 PM

I remember the first time I ever took blood from a stupid adolescent who attempted suicide on paracetamol. Still never got a clear answer as to how many she took, but it was a lot. After they had their stomach pumped and I got back with the results, the doctor had to explain very carefully that they couldn't be released as their liver would fail in a day or so. Sure, they felt fine now, but that would all change.

Poor stupid kid. They survived but were in care for a week or so, from what I remember. It happened a few times when I worked in the hospital - kids who toy with OTC pain relievers, thinking in the back of their minds they're harmless on one level but wanting to scare whoever enough into thinking they've overdosed. Once the drama dies down, they then think 'oh well, it was only paracetamol', only to be told they could still die.

Drugs are drugs. If it changes how your body works on one level, it can do bad things.

Athon

Matilda · 22nd December 2009, 02:22 AM

IIRC I was told by a nurse to take food with Ibuprofen, as this helps line your stomach and reduce negative effects. It probably says so on the packet, but I tend to glance at dosage and not notice anything else.

Hope your health improves soon Dragoonster.

Rolfe · 22nd December 2009, 06:13 AM

Regarding paracetamol, I was told by a colleague of a woman who was very manipulative with her family and had on a number of occasions "attempted suicide" using aspirin. Of course she was always successfully treated, and got everyone eating out of her hand.

Then one day she tried it again and as there weren't any aspirin tablets in the house she took paracetamol.

She died.

That stuff can be bloody lethal above the stated dose, and this isn't well enough known.

Rolfe.

Cainkane1 · 22nd December 2009, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Dragoonster

I've had a lot of problems with my stomach, and some with my breathing this year. And possibly my heart. Had my gall bladder removed, and a couple failed attempts at extinguishing h. pylori, but still have problems. Due to finances, extreme anxiety, and procrastination I haven't gotten a solid diagnosis yet.

Anyway a couple weeks ago and beyond I had some ear pain and took Ibuprofen, which I'd forgotten was inadvisable if having ulcers or other GI problems. Five days ago I got almost constant pain in my sternum too, so kept popping more pills, and getting more pain. A sort of cycle of stupid self-destruction in retrospect. I was trying to get through it thinking it was a temporary thing.

This morning my poop was very bloody and chest still hurt so went to the ER. Luckily my heart looked fine, and he thought it was due to the Ibuprofen working on whatever condition I have, which he thought might be GERD (plus the h. pylori). Referred me to a gastroenterologist. But I'm surprised at two things: That I'm stupid enough to not notice or remember the side-effects of Ibuprofen; and that side-effect warnings on OTC medication actually isn't there just for legal purposes. If it really was due to Ibuprofen it's the first time I've ever noticed such a side effect from such a common drug. I'm sure going to start reading labels closer.

I'm also wondering if this has worsened my condition, either for the past six or so months I've been having trouble, or maybe even done permanent damage. The bottle was 500 pills so I bought it before I'd had any trouble, and have been taking them throughout.

So...watch out and read your labels, even for everyday drugs!

I'm no doctor but you'll probably recover. Good luck anyway. Sorry you have so many health issues.

T.A.M. · 22nd December 2009, 07:52 AM

Taking it with food may help with the subjective stomach upset you get with taking the pill, but it has no effect on causing gastritis and GUD/PUD. These illnesses are related to the COX-1 Inhibition and the effect this has on the lining of the stomach. All NSAIDS are a mixture of cox-1/cox-2 inhibitors (Aspirin being very much a cox-1 with slight cox-2, and celebrex being the opposite, a predominantly cox-2 inhibitor with slight cox-1). I won't get into the details of cox1/2 inhibitors here, but suffice it to say that cox1inhibitor - bad for GI tract - ok for pain and inflammation, cox2 inhibitor - not so bad for GI tract, ok for pain and inflammation.

TAM

blutoski · 22nd December 2009, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

That stuff can be bloody lethal above the stated dose, and this isn't well enough known.

Likewise Tylenol (paracetamol is 'acetaminophen' for us Canadians/Americans).

My wife and I have talked about the relative risks of a public education program. Would the number of lives saved through accidental overdose prevention be offset by the number of lives lost by helping people find a foolproof over-the-counter suicide pill?

calebprime · 22nd December 2009, 08:16 AM

Foolproof but painful, no?

Painless drifting off to sleep the way to go.

Dragoonster · 22nd December 2009, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Matilda

IIRC I was told by a nurse to take food with Ibuprofen, as this helps line your stomach and reduce negative effects. It probably says so on the packet, but I tend to glance at dosage and not notice anything else.

Hope your health improves soon Dragoonster.

Thanks to you and everyone for the well-wishes! I slept great last night, very little pain, most of the time none leading up to sleep. Hopefully that was it.

Yeah, I sometimes don't pay much attention either, but I've been on many different drugs for anxiety so became aware of NSAIDs and their risks, and interactions between other kinds of drugs. But either my memory is horrible, or...well I don't know why I didn't realize Ibuprofen was one. Maybe I just didn't think I had the kind of GI problems that it would affect.

I got some acetaminophen instead, and will be careful with it too. Another failing I've had that hadn't hurt me in the past was not paying enough attention to doses, like I'd take more than 8 every 24 hours or something if in bad pain. I'll pay more attention to that too.

Originally Posted by blutoski

My wife and I have talked about the relative risks of a public education program. Would the number of lives saved through accidental overdose prevention be offset by the number of lives lost by helping people find a foolproof over-the-counter suicide pill?

I'd say preventing loss of life of someone who doesn't want to die is more important than those who do, so wouldn't assign a 1:1 risk:reward value there.

One other thing that prompted me to post was Brittany Murphy's death. Not sure if accidental drug interactions caused that, but it also reminded me of Heath Ledger, and the dangers of getting different drugs from different sources, most of whom don't know the patient is taking the other stuff. My problem was different but with so many people using drugs these days perhaps a more aggressive public awareness campaign or better informational system should be implemented. Dangers of OTC drugs could be rolled into it.

paximperium · 22nd December 2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Analgesic Nephropathy

An analgesic is any medicine intended to relieve pain. Over-the-counter analgesics—that is, painkillers available without a prescription—include aspirin, acetaminophen, ibuprofen, naproxen sodium, and others. These drugs present no danger for most people when taken in the recommended dosage. But some conditions make taking even these common painkillers dangerous for the kidneys. Also, taking one of these drugs regularly over a long period of time may increase the risk for kidney problems. Most drugs that can cause kidney damage are excreted only through the kidneys. That is, they are not broken down by the liver, as alcohol is, or passed out of the body through the digestive tract.
Analgesic use has been associated with two different forms of kidney damage: acute renal failure and a type of chronic kidney disease called analgesic nephropathy.

http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseas...icnephropathy/

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Regarding paracetamol, I was told by a colleague of a woman who was very manipulative with her family and had on a number of occasions "attempted suicide" using aspirin. Of course she was always successfully treated, and got everyone eating out of her hand.

Then one day she tried it again and as there weren't any aspirin tablets in the house she took paracetamol.

She died.

That stuff can be bloody lethal above the stated dose, and this isn't well enough known.

Aspirin toxicity can be fatal. It decouples your energy production pathway leading to acidosis, renal failure, hyperthermia etc. We can fix it with alkalization or dialysis.

Acetaminophen/paracetamol/tylenol can also be fatal in high doses. It kills your liver. We have a great antidote for it.

Tiktaalik · 22nd December 2009, 09:52 AM

My dogs overdosed on ibuprofen earlier this year - one got up on the dining-room table (they're heelers) and got a bottle, popped it open, and they both indulged. They survived but with an overnight stay in the vet's, lots of vomiting, and several blood panels. No apparent long-term harm, but it's definitely not benign stuff - at least for dogs.

RecoveringYuppy · 22nd December 2009, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by paximperium

Acetaminophen/paracetamol/tylenol can also be fatal in high doses. It kills your liver.

I briefly, fortunately very briefly, knew someone a few years ago who was taking tramadol in various, unprescribed, forms at 2 grams per day with several other self prescribed opiods at unknown quantities. Don't know exactly how much acetaminophen she was getting but it was definitely several grams a day. Very scary.

It goes down in history as the only dating experience that endangered my life.

Rolfe · 22nd December 2009, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Tiktaalik

My dogs overdosed on ibuprofen earlier this year - one got up on the dining-room table (they're heelers) and got a bottle, popped it open, and they both indulged. They survived but with an overnight stay in the vet's, lots of vomiting, and several blood panels. No apparent long-term harm, but it's definitely not benign stuff - at least for dogs.

I've seen a few, and they didn't all survive. I saw the effects on dogs before I ever took any myself. It was a long time before I ever tried it....

Rolfe.

MattusMaximus · 22nd December 2009, 05:18 PM

I feel your pain, Dragoonster. In the last two years, I've had three or four bouts of pericarditis (inflammation of the tissue sac around the heart), two of which landed me in the hospital for brief periods.

Fortunately, if I feel the symptoms coming on, I can greatly mitigate them by taking lots of ibuprofen. The down side is that I worry about the eventual effect on my stomach. Blah.

paximperium · 22nd December 2009, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

I briefly, fortunately very briefly, knew someone a few years ago who was taking tramadol in various, unprescribed, forms at 2 grams per day with several other self prescribed opiods at unknown quantities. Don't know exactly how much acetaminophen she was getting but it was definitely several grams a day. Very scary.

Tramadol/ultram usually does not have any acetaminophen unless this person was taking some weird combo version of it. The multitude of other opioid containing pain meds like Vicodin, Percocet etc. does have acetaminophen.

Quote:

It goes down in history as the only dating experience that endangered my life.

Should I even ask?

Skeptic Ginger · 22nd December 2009, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dragoonster

I've had a lot of problems with my stomach, and some with my breathing this year. And possibly my heart. Had my gall bladder removed, and a couple failed attempts at extinguishing h. pylori, but still have problems. Due to finances, extreme anxiety, and procrastination I haven't gotten a solid diagnosis yet.

Anyway a couple weeks ago and beyond I had some ear pain and took Ibuprofen, which I'd forgotten was inadvisable if having ulcers or other GI problems. Five days ago I got almost constant pain in my sternum too, so kept popping more pills, and getting more pain. A sort of cycle of stupid self-destruction in retrospect. I was trying to get through it thinking it was a temporary thing.

This morning my poop was very bloody and chest still hurt so went to the ER. Luckily my heart looked fine, and he thought it was due to the Ibuprofen working on whatever condition I have, which he thought might be GERD (plus the h. pylori). Referred me to a gastroenterologist. But I'm surprised at two things: That I'm stupid enough to not notice or remember the side-effects of Ibuprofen; and that side-effect warnings on OTC medication actually isn't there just for legal purposes. If it really was due to Ibuprofen it's the first time I've ever noticed such a side effect from such a common drug. I'm sure going to start reading labels closer.

I'm also wondering if this has worsened my condition, either for the past six or so months I've been having trouble, or maybe even done permanent damage. The bottle was 500 pills so I bought it before I'd had any trouble, and have been taking them throughout.

So...watch out and read your labels, even for everyday drugs!

If you had any kind of bloody stools other than obvious hemorrhoid bleeding, you need a colonoscopy and maybe an upper GI. Don't try to guess the diagnosis by yourself. Just go get the proper exam.

And Paxi and T.A.M., I'm surprised at your possible tunnel vision here. Bloody stools require a proper workup regardless of what's on top of the the differential.

RecoveringYuppy · 22nd December 2009, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by paximperium

Tramadol/ultram usually does not have any acetaminophen unless this person was taking some weird combo version of it. The multitude of other opioid containing pain meds like Vicodin, Percocet etc. does have acetaminophen.

From what I saw spilled on her kitchen floor one very bad evening I'd guess she had every weird combination of it known to man. Ultracet was definitely one of them. That has acetaminophen doesn't it? Vicodin and Percocet were definitely in the mix too.

Originally Posted by paximperium

Should I even ask?

If you like. I'm OK with it because it happened fast and took me a while to find out and figure out just how much danger I was in. I actually make jokes about this episode.

I'd been occasionally dating a woman who claimed that she had her RLS under control with a mild, herbal, over the counter, sedative called Tramadol which she was buying in Mexico. I could write a long post telling you how her life unravelled before my eyes over the course of a week but the episode that put my life in danger took about 30 minutes or so.

One evening she had a seizure. During the seizure I was occupied trying to keeping her from killing herself or kicking her chihuahuas across the room. After the seizure she alternated between a semblance of reality and two psychotic fantasies. When appearing to be in control of herself she kept assuring me she knew what to do about these episodes and there was no need to call 911.

The first of the two psychotic fantasies was her having a conversation with three hallucinatory friends of hers, where she talked about how great her life as a prostitute had been until her friends talked her in to her participating in the murder of three pregnant prostititues by force feeding them their own unborn fetuses. It was in the middle of this episode that she spilled her "medicine" bottles all over the kitchen floor. I wound up helping her pick them up when she figured out her hallucinatory friends weren't very effective at picking up bottles.

The second episode revolved around her explaining to me that her real boyfriend was out of jail and on his way over. They had a plan to decapitate me by repeated gunshots to the head, rape my decapitated body for three days, sexually assault my mother through the mail with my body parts, and then escape to Germany. No aspiring girlfriend had ever attempted to captivate me in this manner before.

I was later to find out that she had lied to me about her interest in guns (she claimed not to have any) and find out that she had a loaded gun with easy reach during that episode.

The upside is that I've covered my life time requirement for disfunctional relationships and the rest of my love life has been very satisfying. That and I didn't die that night.

Morrigan · 22nd December 2009, 08:50 PM

I sympathize. I suffered from a stomach ulcer just two weeks ago, and I'm due for a h. pylori test in January (I have to take medication for a month, then stop two weeks, then have the test done). I'm hoping it's actually h. pylori, which should be relatively easy to eradicate with antibiotics and will make stomach pains go away for good... because otherwise it might mean my ulcer was caused by taking ibuprofen too often (I don't abuse it really, but I do tend to take one -- not necessarily with food -- when I get a headache), and while I could stop taking ibuprofen, the only alternative that won't affect the stomach is... acetaminophen (Tylenol), to which I'm allergic. Gah!

21st December 2009, 11:17 PM	#1
Dragoonster Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,583	I think I overdosed on Ibuprofen this week I've had a lot of problems with my stomach, and some with my breathing this year. And possibly my heart. Had my gall bladder removed, and a couple failed attempts at extinguishing h. pylori, but still have problems. Due to finances, extreme anxiety, and procrastination I haven't gotten a solid diagnosis yet. Anyway a couple weeks ago and beyond I had some ear pain and took Ibuprofen, which I'd forgotten was inadvisable if having ulcers or other GI problems. Five days ago I got almost constant pain in my sternum too, so kept popping more pills, and getting more pain. A sort of cycle of stupid self-destruction in retrospect. I was trying to get through it thinking it was a temporary thing. This morning my poop was very bloody and chest still hurt so went to the ER. Luckily my heart looked fine, and he thought it was due to the Ibuprofen working on whatever condition I have, which he thought might be GERD (plus the h. pylori). Referred me to a gastroenterologist. But I'm surprised at two things: That I'm stupid enough to not notice or remember the side-effects of Ibuprofen; and that side-effect warnings on OTC medication actually isn't there just for legal purposes. If it really was due to Ibuprofen it's the first time I've ever noticed such a side effect from such a common drug. I'm sure going to start reading labels closer. I'm also wondering if this has worsened my condition, either for the past six or so months I've been having trouble, or maybe even done permanent damage. The bottle was 500 pills so I bought it before I'd had any trouble, and have been taking them throughout. So...watch out and read your labels, even for everyday drugs!

22nd December 2009, 02:22 AM	#3
Matilda Thinker Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK Posts: 188	IIRC I was told by a nurse to take food with Ibuprofen, as this helps line your stomach and reduce negative effects. It probably says so on the packet, but I tend to glance at dosage and not notice anything else. Hope your health improves soon Dragoonster.
	__________________ "If ever a spirit-form takes to coming near me, I shall not be content with trying to grasp it, but, in the interests of science, I will shoot it." Samuel Butler

22nd December 2009, 06:13 AM	#4
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,314	Regarding paracetamol, I was told by a colleague of a woman who was very manipulative with her family and had on a number of occasions "attempted suicide" using aspirin. Of course she was always successfully treated, and got everyone eating out of her hand. Then one day she tried it again and as there weren't any aspirin tablets in the house she took paracetamol. She died. That stuff can be bloody lethal above the stated dose, and this isn't well enough known. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

22nd December 2009, 06:51 AM	#5
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,191	Originally Posted by Dragoonster I've had a lot of problems with my stomach, and some with my breathing this year. And possibly my heart. Had my gall bladder removed, and a couple failed attempts at extinguishing h. pylori, but still have problems. Due to finances, extreme anxiety, and procrastination I haven't gotten a solid diagnosis yet. Anyway a couple weeks ago and beyond I had some ear pain and took Ibuprofen, which I'd forgotten was inadvisable if having ulcers or other GI problems. Five days ago I got almost constant pain in my sternum too, so kept popping more pills, and getting more pain. A sort of cycle of stupid self-destruction in retrospect. I was trying to get through it thinking it was a temporary thing. This morning my poop was very bloody and chest still hurt so went to the ER. Luckily my heart looked fine, and he thought it was due to the Ibuprofen working on whatever condition I have, which he thought might be GERD (plus the h. pylori). Referred me to a gastroenterologist. But I'm surprised at two things: That I'm stupid enough to not notice or remember the side-effects of Ibuprofen; and that side-effect warnings on OTC medication actually isn't there just for legal purposes. If it really was due to Ibuprofen it's the first time I've ever noticed such a side effect from such a common drug. I'm sure going to start reading labels closer. I'm also wondering if this has worsened my condition, either for the past six or so months I've been having trouble, or maybe even done permanent damage. The bottle was 500 pills so I bought it before I'd had any trouble, and have been taking them throughout. So...watch out and read your labels, even for everyday drugs! I'm no doctor but you'll probably recover. Good luck anyway. Sorry you have so many health issues.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

22nd December 2009, 07:52 AM	#6
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	Taking it with food may help with the subjective stomach upset you get with taking the pill, but it has no effect on causing gastritis and GUD/PUD. These illnesses are related to the COX-1 Inhibition and the effect this has on the lining of the stomach. All NSAIDS are a mixture of cox-1/cox-2 inhibitors (Aspirin being very much a cox-1 with slight cox-2, and celebrex being the opposite, a predominantly cox-2 inhibitor with slight cox-1). I won't get into the details of cox1/2 inhibitors here, but suffice it to say that cox1inhibitor - bad for GI tract - ok for pain and inflammation, cox2 inhibitor - not so bad for GI tract, ok for pain and inflammation. TAM
	Last edited by T.A.M.; 22nd December 2009 at 07:53 AM.

21st December 2009, 11:54 PM	#2
athon Kowalski Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: gone Posts: 9,286	I remember the first time I ever took blood from a stupid adolescent who attempted suicide on paracetamol. Still never got a clear answer as to how many she took, but it was a lot. After they had their stomach pumped and I got back with the results, the doctor had to explain very carefully that they couldn't be released as their liver would fail in a day or so. Sure, they felt fine now, but that would all change. Poor stupid kid. They survived but were in care for a week or so, from what I remember. It happened a few times when I worked in the hospital - kids who toy with OTC pain relievers, thinking in the back of their minds they're harmless on one level but wanting to scare whoever enough into thinking they've overdosed. Once the drama dies down, they then think 'oh well, it was only paracetamol', only to be told they could still die. Drugs are drugs. If it changes how your body works on one level, it can do bad things. Athon

22nd December 2009, 08:00 AM	#7
blutoski Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 5,966	Originally Posted by Rolfe That stuff can be bloody lethal above the stated dose, and this isn't well enough known. Likewise Tylenol (paracetamol is 'acetaminophen' for us Canadians/Americans). My wife and I have talked about the relative risks of a public education program. Would the number of lives saved through accidental overdose prevention be offset by the number of lives lost by helping people find a foolproof over-the-counter suicide pill?
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

22nd December 2009, 08:16 AM	#8
calebprime Somewhat Elitist Parasite Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,750	Foolproof but painful, no? Painless drifting off to sleep the way to go.
	__________________ Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory.

22nd December 2009, 09:13 AM	#9
Dragoonster Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,583	Originally Posted by Matilda IIRC I was told by a nurse to take food with Ibuprofen, as this helps line your stomach and reduce negative effects. It probably says so on the packet, but I tend to glance at dosage and not notice anything else. Hope your health improves soon Dragoonster. Thanks to you and everyone for the well-wishes! I slept great last night, very little pain, most of the time none leading up to sleep. Hopefully that was it. Yeah, I sometimes don't pay much attention either, but I've been on many different drugs for anxiety so became aware of NSAIDs and their risks, and interactions between other kinds of drugs. But either my memory is horrible, or...well I don't know why I didn't realize Ibuprofen was one. Maybe I just didn't think I had the kind of GI problems that it would affect. I got some acetaminophen instead, and will be careful with it too. Another failing I've had that hadn't hurt me in the past was not paying enough attention to doses, like I'd take more than 8 every 24 hours or something if in bad pain. I'll pay more attention to that too. Originally Posted by blutoski My wife and I have talked about the relative risks of a public education program. Would the number of lives saved through accidental overdose prevention be offset by the number of lives lost by helping people find a foolproof over-the-counter suicide pill? I'd say preventing loss of life of someone who doesn't want to die is more important than those who do, so wouldn't assign a 1:1 risk:reward value there. One other thing that prompted me to post was Brittany Murphy's death. Not sure if accidental drug interactions caused that, but it also reminded me of Heath Ledger, and the dangers of getting different drugs from different sources, most of whom don't know the patient is taking the other stuff. My problem was different but with so many people using drugs these days perhaps a more aggressive public awareness campaign or better informational system should be implemented. Dangers of OTC drugs could be rolled into it.

22nd December 2009, 09:20 AM	#10
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	Quote: Analgesic Nephropathy An analgesic is any medicine intended to relieve pain. Over-the-counter analgesics—that is, painkillers available without a prescription—include aspirin, acetaminophen, ibuprofen, naproxen sodium, and others. These drugs present no danger for most people when taken in the recommended dosage. But some conditions make taking even these common painkillers dangerous for the kidneys. Also, taking one of these drugs regularly over a long period of time may increase the risk for kidney problems. Most drugs that can cause kidney damage are excreted only through the kidneys. That is, they are not broken down by the liver, as alcohol is, or passed out of the body through the digestive tract. Analgesic use has been associated with two different forms of kidney damage: acute renal failure and a type of chronic kidney disease called analgesic nephropathy. http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseas...icnephropathy/ Originally Posted by Rolfe Regarding paracetamol, I was told by a colleague of a woman who was very manipulative with her family and had on a number of occasions "attempted suicide" using aspirin. Of course she was always successfully treated, and got everyone eating out of her hand. Then one day she tried it again and as there weren't any aspirin tablets in the house she took paracetamol. She died. That stuff can be bloody lethal above the stated dose, and this isn't well enough known. Aspirin toxicity can be fatal. It decouples your energy production pathway leading to acidosis, renal failure, hyperthermia etc. We can fix it with alkalization or dialysis. Acetaminophen/paracetamol/tylenol can also be fatal in high doses. It kills your liver. We have a great antidote for it.
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett

22nd December 2009, 09:52 AM	#11
Tiktaalik Half True Scotsperson Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,981	My dogs overdosed on ibuprofen earlier this year - one got up on the dining-room table (they're heelers) and got a bottle, popped it open, and they both indulged. They survived but with an overnight stay in the vet's, lots of vomiting, and several blood panels. No apparent long-term harm, but it's definitely not benign stuff - at least for dogs.

22nd December 2009, 10:03 AM	#12
RecoveringYuppy Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,848	Originally Posted by paximperium Acetaminophen/paracetamol/tylenol can also be fatal in high doses. It kills your liver. I briefly, fortunately very briefly, knew someone a few years ago who was taking tramadol in various, unprescribed, forms at 2 grams per day with several other self prescribed opiods at unknown quantities. Don't know exactly how much acetaminophen she was getting but it was definitely several grams a day. Very scary. It goes down in history as the only dating experience that endangered my life.
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. Last edited by RecoveringYuppy; 22nd December 2009 at 10:12 AM.

22nd December 2009, 03:42 PM	#13
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,314	Originally Posted by Tiktaalik My dogs overdosed on ibuprofen earlier this year - one got up on the dining-room table (they're heelers) and got a bottle, popped it open, and they both indulged. They survived but with an overnight stay in the vet's, lots of vomiting, and several blood panels. No apparent long-term harm, but it's definitely not benign stuff - at least for dogs. I've seen a few, and they didn't all survive. I saw the effects on dogs before I ever took any myself. It was a long time before I ever tried it.... Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

22nd December 2009, 05:18 PM	#14
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	I feel your pain, Dragoonster. In the last two years, I've had three or four bouts of pericarditis (inflammation of the tissue sac around the heart), two of which landed me in the hospital for brief periods. Fortunately, if I feel the symptoms coming on, I can greatly mitigate them by taking lots of ibuprofen. The down side is that I worry about the eventual effect on my stomach. Blah.
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher The Times They Are A-Changin'

22nd December 2009, 06:16 PM	#15
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy I briefly, fortunately very briefly, knew someone a few years ago who was taking tramadol in various, unprescribed, forms at 2 grams per day with several other self prescribed opiods at unknown quantities. Don't know exactly how much acetaminophen she was getting but it was definitely several grams a day. Very scary. Tramadol/ultram usually does not have any acetaminophen unless this person was taking some weird combo version of it. The multitude of other opioid containing pain meds like Vicodin, Percocet etc. does have acetaminophen. Quote: It goes down in history as the only dating experience that endangered my life. Should I even ask?
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett

22nd December 2009, 07:17 PM	#16
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,513	Originally Posted by Dragoonster I've had a lot of problems with my stomach, and some with my breathing this year. And possibly my heart. Had my gall bladder removed, and a couple failed attempts at extinguishing h. pylori, but still have problems. Due to finances, extreme anxiety, and procrastination I haven't gotten a solid diagnosis yet. Anyway a couple weeks ago and beyond I had some ear pain and took Ibuprofen, which I'd forgotten was inadvisable if having ulcers or other GI problems. Five days ago I got almost constant pain in my sternum too, so kept popping more pills, and getting more pain. A sort of cycle of stupid self-destruction in retrospect. I was trying to get through it thinking it was a temporary thing. This morning my poop was very bloody and chest still hurt so went to the ER. Luckily my heart looked fine, and he thought it was due to the Ibuprofen working on whatever condition I have, which he thought might be GERD (plus the h. pylori). Referred me to a gastroenterologist. But I'm surprised at two things: That I'm stupid enough to not notice or remember the side-effects of Ibuprofen; and that side-effect warnings on OTC medication actually isn't there just for legal purposes. If it really was due to Ibuprofen it's the first time I've ever noticed such a side effect from such a common drug. I'm sure going to start reading labels closer. I'm also wondering if this has worsened my condition, either for the past six or so months I've been having trouble, or maybe even done permanent damage. The bottle was 500 pills so I bought it before I'd had any trouble, and have been taking them throughout. So...watch out and read your labels, even for everyday drugs! If you had any kind of bloody stools other than obvious hemorrhoid bleeding, you need a colonoscopy and maybe an upper GI. Don't try to guess the diagnosis by yourself. Just go get the proper exam. And Paxi and T.A.M., I'm surprised at your possible tunnel vision here. Bloody stools require a proper workup regardless of what's on top of the the differential.
	__________________ (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.) Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 22nd December 2009 at 07:20 PM.*

22nd December 2009, 07:24 PM	#17
RecoveringYuppy Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,848	Originally Posted by paximperium Tramadol/ultram usually does not have any acetaminophen unless this person was taking some weird combo version of it. The multitude of other opioid containing pain meds like Vicodin, Percocet etc. does have acetaminophen. From what I saw spilled on her kitchen floor one very bad evening I'd guess she had every weird combination of it known to man. Ultracet was definitely one of them. That has acetaminophen doesn't it? Vicodin and Percocet were definitely in the mix too. Originally Posted by paximperium Should I even ask? If you like. I'm OK with it because it happened fast and took me a while to find out and figure out just how much danger I was in. I actually make jokes about this episode. I'd been occasionally dating a woman who claimed that she had her RLS under control with a mild, herbal, over the counter, sedative called Tramadol which she was buying in Mexico. I could write a long post telling you how her life unravelled before my eyes over the course of a week but the episode that put my life in danger took about 30 minutes or so. One evening she had a seizure. During the seizure I was occupied trying to keeping her from killing herself or kicking her chihuahuas across the room. After the seizure she alternated between a semblance of reality and two psychotic fantasies. When appearing to be in control of herself she kept assuring me she knew what to do about these episodes and there was no need to call 911. The first of the two psychotic fantasies was her having a conversation with three hallucinatory friends of hers, where she talked about how great her life as a prostitute had been until her friends talked her in to her participating in the murder of three pregnant prostititues by force feeding them their own unborn fetuses. It was in the middle of this episode that she spilled her "medicine" bottles all over the kitchen floor. I wound up helping her pick them up when she figured out her hallucinatory friends weren't very effective at picking up bottles. The second episode revolved around her explaining to me that her real boyfriend was out of jail and on his way over. They had a plan to decapitate me by repeated gunshots to the head, rape my decapitated body for three days, sexually assault my mother through the mail with my body parts, and then escape to Germany. No aspiring girlfriend had ever attempted to captivate me in this manner before. I was later to find out that she had lied to me about her interest in guns (she claimed not to have any) and find out that she had a loaded gun with easy reach during that episode. The upside is that I've covered my life time requirement for disfunctional relationships and the rest of my love life has been very satisfying. That and I didn't die that night.
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

22nd December 2009, 08:50 PM	#18
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,868	I sympathize. I suffered from a stomach ulcer just two weeks ago, and I'm due for a h. pylori test in January (I have to take medication for a month, then stop two weeks, then have the test done). I'm hoping it's actually h. pylori, which should be relatively easy to eradicate with antibiotics and will make stomach pains go away for good... because otherwise it might mean my ulcer was caused by taking ibuprofen too often (I don't abuse it really, but I do tend to take one -- not necessarily with food -- when I get a headache), and while I could stop taking ibuprofen, the only alternative that won't affect the stomach is... acetaminophen (Tylenol), to which I'm allergic. Gah!
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,868