Four good reasons why I am a liberal

Thunder · 30th December 2009, 06:24 PM

#1. Liberals firmly believe in the separation of church and state. Religious beliefs should never be the overriding factor in any legislation, foreign policy, etc.

#2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last. We believe that unless our nation or a friend is under immediate and direct threat, diplomacy must be used to solve all problems.

#3. Liberals believe that government needs to well-regulate industries that are vital to our nation's health, survival, and environment. This includes banking, natural resources, and major manufacturers that employ tens of thousands of Americans and are related to many other industries that employ thousands more.

#4. Liberals believe in taking care of his fellow man, when people are in trouble. A healthy nation is a stronger and more productive nation. This means health-care for ALL Americans.

Tumblehome · 30th December 2009, 08:07 PM

Why do you hate America?

Those reasons look pretty solid to me.

Ziggurat · 30th December 2009, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

#1. Liberals firmly believe in the separation of church and state

So do libertarians.

Quote:

#2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last. We believe that unless our nation or a friend is under immediate and direct threat, diplomacy must be used to solve all problems.

Peace in our time.

Quote:

#4. Liberals believe in taking care of his fellow man, when people are in trouble.

And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives. Sorry, parky, but desiring to help people through government programs (ie, with someone else's money) doesn't make you morally superior to people who want to do so privately.

tyr_13 · 30th December 2009, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives. Sorry, parky, but desiring to help people through government programs (ie, with someone else's money) doesn't make you morally superior to people who want to do so privately.

Not that I am in agreement with the OP, but charity doesn't provide health care to all Americans. Or at least sufficient health care. It doesn't make sense to ignore the second part of that point in order to more clearly attack the first.

Besides, that 'conservatives give more than liberals' factoid isn't as clear as it is presented.

KingMerv00 · 30th December 2009, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives.

That's because conservatives have all of the money.

KingMerv00 · 30th December 2009, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Not that I am in agreement with the OP, but charity doesn't provide health care to all Americans.

For example, the NRA is a tax exempt organization. A conservative could give a donation to them and call it "charity".

Brainster · 30th December 2009, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives.

Hey, Bill Clinton gave his used underwear to charity (and famously wrote it off on his taxes).

Jimbo07 · 30th December 2009, 10:14 PM

Is it me, or was Dr. A. trying to make a not-so-subtle point about various uses of the term conservative? He did go so far as to distinguish his position from current Republican practice.

If so, this OP, whether I agree with the points or not, is not nearly as sublime.

PixyMisa · 31st December 2009, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Peace in our time.

Why do you hate ~~Austria~~ ~~the Sudetenland~~ ~~Poland~~ America?

Arcade22 · 31st December 2009, 04:18 AM

I agree with all of this and I'm 'Far-Right'!

Undesired Walrus · 31st December 2009, 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by parky76

#2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last. We believe that unless our nation or a friend is under immediate and direct threat, diplomacy must be used to solve all problems.

The history of liberal America flies in contrast to this. See Vietnam.

WildCat · 31st December 2009, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

The history of liberal America flies in contrast to this. See Vietnam.

Well, they weren't True Liberals^TM.

Darth Rotor · 31st December 2009, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by parky76

#1. Liberals firmly believe in the separation of church and state. Religious beliefs should never be the overriding factor in any legislation, foreign policy, etc.

Liberals aren't alone there, parky.

Quote:

#2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last.

Fair weather liberal, eh?

DR

Thunder · 31st December 2009, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives. Sorry, parky, but desiring to help people through government programs (ie, with someone else's money) doesn't make you morally superior to people who want to do so privately.

ooooooh!!!! good one.

DDWW · 31st December 2009, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

For example, the NRA is a tax exempt organization. A conservative could give a donation to them and call it "charity".

Only the NRA "Friends of the NRA" portion is a tax exempt charity. This organization raises money for firearm education, such as the Eddie Eagle campaign.

The NRA-ILA is the political wing and donations there are not tax exempt, nor is the regular NRA. They are non-profit.

The money between the two cannot be mixed. The IRS really keeps close tabs on the NRA.

And if anyone here would like to donate to the Friends of the NRA chapter in my area (Southwest USA) I would be happy to help.

DDWW

DDWW · 31st December 2009, 09:58 AM

[quote=parky76;5463650
#2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last. We believe that unless our nation or a friend is under immediate and direct threat, diplomacy must be used to solve all problems.

[/QUOTE]

And how is that working out for you?

DDWW

KingMerv00 · 31st December 2009, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by DDWW

Only the NRA "Friends of the NRA" portion is a tax exempt charity. This organization raises money for firearm education, such as the Eddie Eagle campaign.

The NRA-ILA is the political wing and donations there are not tax exempt, nor is the regular NRA. They are non-profit.

The money between the two cannot be mixed. The IRS really keeps close tabs on the NRA.

And if anyone here would like to donate to the Friends of the NRA chapter in my area (Southwest USA) I would be happy to help.

DDWW

My apologies but the point still stands. "Giving money to charity", is not synonymous with "taking care of his fellow man, when people are in trouble".

DDWW · 31st December 2009, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

My apologies but the point still stands. "Giving money to charity", is not synonymous with "taking care of his fellow man, when people are in trouble".

I agree to your point. Just a clarification on where the money goes (that I should have noted.)

DDWW

Thunder · 31st December 2009, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by DDWW

And how is that working out for you?

DDWW

quite well actually, thanks.

New Ager · 1st January 2010, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

#1. Liberals firmly believe in the separation of church and state. Religious beliefs should never be the overriding factor in any legislation, foreign policy, etc.

Liberals don't believe in God and want to deny those that do the freedom to worship as they see fit. All things that have to do with faith are to be excised(schools, gov't buildings, businesses) and taken from our sight.

Originally Posted by parky76

#2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last. We believe that unless our nation or a friend is under immediate and direct threat, diplomacy must be used to solve all problems.

Liberals will kiss the booty of any dictator and the UN. They think being nice will cause these types to like us. They don't. They don't respect us. See Obama.

Originally Posted by parky76

#3. Liberals believe that government needs to well-regulate industries that are vital to our nation's health, survival, and environment. This includes banking, natural resources, and major manufacturers that employ tens of thousands of Americans and are related to many other industries that employ thousands more.

Liberals believe that interfering with the free flow of business is a good thing, but the truth is their interference is what causes problems and drives prices up. See health care and the automotive industry.

Originally Posted by parky76

#4. Liberals believe in taking care of his fellow man, when people are in trouble.

They didn't seem too interested in saving the people of Iraq when Saddam was in power. In fact, they protested saving them from an evil dictator.

Originally Posted by parky76

A healthy nation is a stronger and more productive nation. This means health-care for ALL Americans.

That's called socialized medicine which doesn't work. Again, gov't interference.

Why do liberals think gov't is the solution to all problems when it can't solve anything and more often than not, makes things worse?

Thunder · 1st January 2010, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by New Ager

Liberals don't believe in God and want to deny those that do the freedom to worship as they see fit.

Liberals will kiss the booty of any dictator and the UN.

Conservatives are more than happy to let poor people die in the street.

Conservatives hate all Muslims and many non-Americans, and see war as the best way to solve all problems or issues.

Conservatives believe that government should let people be free....except when it comes to women.

Conservatives believe that corporations and billionaires should be trusted to do what's best for the American people.

Conservatives believe that children should be forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance, and be forced to pray to Jesus in school, or be sent to GITMO.

KingMerv00 · 1st January 2010, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

Conservatives are more than happy to let poor people die in the street.

Conservatives hate all Muslims and many non-Americans, and see war as the best way to solve all problems or issues.

Conservatives believe that government should let people be free....except when it comes to women.

Conservatives believe that corporations and billionaires should be trusted to do what's best for the American people.

Conservatives believe that children should be forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance, and be forced to pray to Jesus in school, or be sent to GITMO.

What a minute, that's just a strawm...oh I get it. Carry on.

XBoxWarrior · 1st January 2010, 04:10 PM

I'm a Liberal because the other team is just bat crap crazy.

/Palin
//Tea Baggers
///Did I mention Palin?

Thunder · 1st January 2010, 04:24 PM

Four more good reasons why I am a liberal:

1. George W. Bush

2. Sarah Palin

3. Dick Cheney

4. Sarah Palin.

(yes, Sarah Palin is such a good reason to be a liberal, that she deserves two spots)

tyr_13 · 1st January 2010, 04:28 PM

I'm not a liberal any more because Palin is a conservative than I am a liberal because Michael Moore is an asshat.

It simply doesn't matter.

Tailgater · 1st January 2010, 08:10 PM

It's funny to watch extremists argue.

Corsair 115 · 1st January 2010, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by New Ager

That's called socialized medicine which doesn't work. Again, gov't interference.

I hope Architect doesn't see this thread. No, wait, I hope he does, because his reply to the above would be an excellent read.

cornsail · 1st January 2010, 09:44 PM

Liberal != Democrat
Conservative !=Republican

Liberals, in the typical American sense of the word, want public health care, decriminalized marijuana, fair regulation of corporations, fair trade agreements (i.e. not this NAFTA crap), equal rights for homosexuals, a moral foreign policy and so on..

Democrats in the capital are a whole different story.

Alt+F4 · 2nd January 2010, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives.

Evidence? Last time I made a charitable donation I don't recall being asked about my politics.

Ziggurat · 2nd January 2010, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Alt+F4

Evidence?

http://philanthropy.com/free/article...4/04001101.htm

Quote:

Last time I made a charitable donation I don't recall being asked about my politics.

And nobody asked for my opinion of Obama, but yet he's got an approval rating. I wonder how they do that....

tyr_13 · 2nd January 2010, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

http://philanthropy.com/free/article...4/04001101.htm

And nobody asked for my opinion of Obama, but yet he's got an approval rating. I wonder how they do that....

When you count giving money to the church (specifically the act of tithing) and tax shelter as charity, sure, it's pretty obvious that conservatives give more to 'charity'.

Alt+F4 · 2nd January 2010, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

http://philanthropy.com/free/article...4/04001101.htm

That's a link to a book review about a book that says that religious people give more to charity than more secular people do. The author came to that conclusion based on conducting surveys, including email surveys.

Doesn't sound too reliable to me.

T.A.M. · 2nd January 2010, 03:27 PM

I am a Liberal, though I was not always so. Here is why I am Liberal:

1. I believe that there are things that should be insured to exist through govt control, such as universal health care, welfare, criminal incarceration, etc...
2. I believe that taxation of all, at rates appropriate to one's income, is a core principle to sustaining a govt that can work for ALL the people.
3. I believe in a woman's right to choose in ALL circumstances.
4. I believe in COMPLETE separation of church and state.
5. I believe, when you take emotion and proximately to an event out, the best thing to do with murderers etc... is life in prison without parole, not the death penalty.
6. I believe in diplomacy first.
7. I believe in the world COMMUNITY, not the isolated interests of those who have the most.
8. I believe that relying on human "good nature" for all things beneficial or charity is wishful thinking. Hence, there are certain things (such as welfare, universal health care, etc...) where I prefer the govt to step in, rather then waiting for these so called good samaritans.
9. I believe in equal rights for all, straight, gay, man, woman, etc...

TAM

KingMerv00 · 2nd January 2010, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives. Sorry, parky, but desiring to help people through government programs (ie, with someone else's money) doesn't make you morally superior to people who want to do so privately.

http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/6885.html

Quote:

The bottom line, the study suggests, is that little has changed in terms of income's general influence on individual voting patterns: in every presidential election since 1952, the richer a voter is, the more likely that voter is to vote Republican, regardless of ethnicity, sex, education or age.

If you have a larger salary, a larger percentage can go to charity. Also keep in mind some of those charities aren't so charitable.

Ziggurat · 2nd January 2010, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/6885.html

As has been pointed out before, conservative is not synonymous with Republican.

Quote:

If you have a larger salary, a larger percentage can go to charity.

And yet, surveys of charitable giving of conservatives vs. liberals indicate the divide cuts across salary lines.

Quote:

Also keep in mind some of those charities aren't so charitable.

And some of those government entitlement programs aren't so effective at helping out the truly needy either.

Ziggurat · 2nd January 2010, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

6. I believe in diplomacy first.

I don't know anyone who doesn't. That's not where the real debate is. The real debate is at what point one should conclude that it's not working, and what to do then.

KingMerv00 · 3rd January 2010, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

As has been pointed out before, conservative is not synonymous with Republican.

Of course. But to pretend there isn't a serious correlation between self-identifying as conservative and voting Republican would be wacky.

Quote:

And yet, surveys of charitable giving of conservatives vs. liberals indicate the divide cuts across salary lines.

I've only seen your one article and a few people have already stated their problems with it.

Quote:

And some of those government entitlement programs aren't so effective at helping out the truly needy either.

I'm haven't promoted entitlement programs as good. You, however, have promoted charitable giving as good and conservative.

T.A.M. · 3rd January 2010, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

I don't know anyone who doesn't. That's not where the real debate is. The real debate is at what point one should conclude that it's not working, and what to do then.

I honestly believe (and no, I don't have any proof) that Cheney and crew went through the motions of diplomacy as a formality, and that they do not believe in it.

TAM

rocketdodger · 3rd January 2010, 02:17 PM

I am a liberal because I am intelligent enough to realize that the form of my existence is tied to the form of the existence of the rest of my society -- whether I like it or not.

In my opinion conservatives think they exist in a bubble protected from the rest of society by outdated ideals.

Ziggurat · 3rd January 2010, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

I honestly believe (and no, I don't have any proof) that Cheney and crew went through the motions of diplomacy as a formality, and that they do not believe in it.

Is that because they wanted war in preference to diplomacy, or because they didn't expect that it could work? I don't know. Neither do you. Which is rather the whole point: you don't know, you not only don't have any proof but you don't even have any evidence, and yet you are willing to ascribe bad faith to the actions of those you disagree with politically. Quite convenient, when you can look into the hearts of strangers and see their sins.

Personally, I'll stick with what we know. And what we know is that nobody, nobody, in any position of significant power or influence in the US is arguing that successful diplomacy is not preferable to war. We do know that there is serious disagreement about what constitutes success and how effective diplomacy is in achieving that. That is a real, serious debate, which will probably continue for as long as our republic stands (and with good reason). And maybe, just maybe, someone could have come to a very different answer to those questions than you from a position of good faith. Or you could just conclude that what you consider to be a bad answer must have stemmed from bad motives. I guess that might be a little easier. It's definitely simpler.

30th December 2009, 09:48 PM	#5
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by Ziggurat And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives. That's because conservatives have all of the money.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

30th December 2009, 09:50 PM	#6
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by tyr_13 Not that I am in agreement with the OP, but charity doesn't provide health care to all Americans. For example, the NRA is a tax exempt organization. A conservative could give a donation to them and call it "charity".
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

30th December 2009, 09:53 PM	#7
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,434	Originally Posted by Ziggurat And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives. Hey, Bill Clinton gave his used underwear to charity (and famously wrote it off on his taxes).
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

30th December 2009, 10:14 PM	#8
Jimbo07 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,417	Is it me, or was Dr. A. trying to make a not-so-subtle point about various uses of the term conservative? He did go so far as to distinguish his position from current Republican practice. If so, this OP, whether I agree with the points or not, is not nearly as sublime.
Jimbo07 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,417	__________________ This post approved by your local jPac (Jimbo07 Political Action Committee), also registered with Jimbo07 as the Jimbo07 Equality Rights Knowledge Betterment Action Group. Atoms in supernova explosion get huge business -- Pixie of key

31st December 2009, 12:13 AM	#9
PixyMisa Persnickety Insect Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sunny Munuvia Posts: 14,914	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Peace in our time. Why do you hate ~~Austria~~ ~~the Sudetenland~~ ~~Poland~~ America?
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30th December 2009, 06:24 PM	#1
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Four good reasons why I am a liberal #1. Liberals firmly believe in the separation of church and state. Religious beliefs should never be the overriding factor in any legislation, foreign policy, etc. #2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last. We believe that unless our nation or a friend is under immediate and direct threat, diplomacy must be used to solve all problems. #3. Liberals believe that government needs to well-regulate industries that are vital to our nation's health, survival, and environment. This includes banking, natural resources, and major manufacturers that employ tens of thousands of Americans and are related to many other industries that employ thousands more. #4. Liberals believe in taking care of his fellow man, when people are in trouble. A healthy nation is a stronger and more productive nation. This means health-care for ALL Americans.

30th December 2009, 08:07 PM	#2
Tumblehome Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Beside the point Posts: 1,445	Why do you hate America? Those reasons look pretty solid to me.
	Last edited by Tumblehome; 30th December 2009 at 08:09 PM.

30th December 2009, 09:16 PM	#3
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,202	Originally Posted by parky76 #1. Liberals firmly believe in the separation of church and state So do libertarians. Quote: #2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last. We believe that unless our nation or a friend is under immediate and direct threat, diplomacy must be used to solve all problems. Peace in our time. Quote: #4. Liberals believe in taking care of his fellow man, when people are in trouble. And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives. Sorry, parky, but desiring to help people through government programs (ie, with someone else's money) doesn't make you morally superior to people who want to do so privately.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

30th December 2009, 09:30 PM	#4
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,668	Originally Posted by Ziggurat And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives. Sorry, parky, but desiring to help people through government programs (ie, with someone else's money) doesn't make you morally superior to people who want to do so privately. Not that I am in agreement with the OP, but charity doesn't provide health care to all Americans. Or at least sufficient health care. It doesn't make sense to ignore the second part of that point in order to more clearly attack the first. Besides, that 'conservatives give more than liberals' factoid isn't as clear as it is presented.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

31st December 2009, 04:18 AM	#10
Arcade22 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Västerbotten, Sweden Posts: 1,829	I agree with all of this and I'm 'Far-Right'!
	__________________ The habit of the religious way of thinking has biased our mind so grievously that we are — terrified at ourselves in our nakedness and naturalness; it has degraded us so that we deem ourselves depraved by nature, born devils. Max Stirner

31st December 2009, 04:26 AM	#11
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,892	Originally Posted by parky76 #2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last. We believe that unless our nation or a friend is under immediate and direct threat, diplomacy must be used to solve all problems. The history of liberal America flies in contrast to this. See Vietnam.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945

31st December 2009, 04:35 AM	#12
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,096	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus The history of liberal America flies in contrast to this. See Vietnam. Well, they weren't True Liberals^TM.

31st December 2009, 05:04 AM	#13
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,265	Originally Posted by parky76 #1. Liberals firmly believe in the separation of church and state. Religious beliefs should never be the overriding factor in any legislation, foreign policy, etc. Liberals aren't alone there, parky. Quote: #2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last. Fair weather liberal, eh? DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

31st December 2009, 09:09 AM	#14
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by Ziggurat And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives. Sorry, parky, but desiring to help people through government programs (ie, with someone else's money) doesn't make you morally superior to people who want to do so privately. ooooooh!!!! good one.

31st December 2009, 09:56 AM	#15
DDWW Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 472	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 For example, the NRA is a tax exempt organization. A conservative could give a donation to them and call it "charity". Only the NRA "Friends of the NRA" portion is a tax exempt charity. This organization raises money for firearm education, such as the Eddie Eagle campaign. The NRA-ILA is the political wing and donations there are not tax exempt, nor is the regular NRA. They are non-profit. The money between the two cannot be mixed. The IRS really keeps close tabs on the NRA. And if anyone here would like to donate to the Friends of the NRA chapter in my area (Southwest USA) I would be happy to help. DDWW
DDWW Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 472

31st December 2009, 09:58 AM	#16
DDWW Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 472	[quote=parky76;5463650 #2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last. We believe that unless our nation or a friend is under immediate and direct threat, diplomacy must be used to solve all problems. [/QUOTE] And how is that working out for you? DDWW
DDWW Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 472

31st December 2009, 10:02 AM	#17
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by DDWW Only the NRA "Friends of the NRA" portion is a tax exempt charity. This organization raises money for firearm education, such as the Eddie Eagle campaign. The NRA-ILA is the political wing and donations there are not tax exempt, nor is the regular NRA. They are non-profit. The money between the two cannot be mixed. The IRS really keeps close tabs on the NRA. And if anyone here would like to donate to the Friends of the NRA chapter in my area (Southwest USA) I would be happy to help. DDWW My apologies but the point still stands. "Giving money to charity", is not synonymous with "taking care of his fellow man, when people are in trouble".
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust? Last edited by KingMerv00; 31st December 2009 at 10:04 AM.

31st December 2009, 10:41 AM	#18
DDWW Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 472	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 My apologies but the point still stands. "Giving money to charity", is not synonymous with "taking care of his fellow man, when people are in trouble". I agree to your point. Just a clarification on where the money goes (that I should have noted.) DDWW
DDWW Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 472

31st December 2009, 10:57 AM	#19
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by DDWW And how is that working out for you? DDWW quite well actually, thanks.

1st January 2010, 12:01 PM	#20
New Ager Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,006	Originally Posted by parky76 #1. Liberals firmly believe in the separation of church and state. Religious beliefs should never be the overriding factor in any legislation, foreign policy, etc. Liberals don't believe in God and want to deny those that do the freedom to worship as they see fit. All things that have to do with faith are to be excised(schools, gov't buildings, businesses) and taken from our sight. Originally Posted by parky76 #2. Liberals are now the party of diplomacy first, war last. We believe that unless our nation or a friend is under immediate and direct threat, diplomacy must be used to solve all problems. Liberals will kiss the booty of any dictator and the UN. They think being nice will cause these types to like us. They don't. They don't respect us. See Obama. Originally Posted by parky76 #3. Liberals believe that government needs to well-regulate industries that are vital to our nation's health, survival, and environment. This includes banking, natural resources, and major manufacturers that employ tens of thousands of Americans and are related to many other industries that employ thousands more. Liberals believe that interfering with the free flow of business is a good thing, but the truth is their interference is what causes problems and drives prices up. See health care and the automotive industry. Originally Posted by parky76 #4. Liberals believe in taking care of his fellow man, when people are in trouble. They didn't seem too interested in saving the people of Iraq when Saddam was in power. In fact, they protested saving them from an evil dictator. Originally Posted by parky76 A healthy nation is a stronger and more productive nation. This means health-care for ALL Americans. That's called socialized medicine which doesn't work. Again, gov't interference. Why do liberals think gov't is the solution to all problems when it can't solve anything and more often than not, makes things worse?
	Last edited by New Ager; 1st January 2010 at 12:03 PM.

1st January 2010, 12:41 PM	#21
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Originally Posted by New Ager Liberals don't believe in God and want to deny those that do the freedom to worship as they see fit. Liberals will kiss the booty of any dictator and the UN. Conservatives are more than happy to let poor people die in the street. Conservatives hate all Muslims and many non-Americans, and see war as the best way to solve all problems or issues. Conservatives believe that government should let people be free....except when it comes to women. Conservatives believe that corporations and billionaires should be trusted to do what's best for the American people. Conservatives believe that children should be forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance, and be forced to pray to Jesus in school, or be sent to GITMO.

1st January 2010, 03:26 PM	#22
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by parky76 Conservatives are more than happy to let poor people die in the street. Conservatives hate all Muslims and many non-Americans, and see war as the best way to solve all problems or issues. Conservatives believe that government should let people be free....except when it comes to women. Conservatives believe that corporations and billionaires should be trusted to do what's best for the American people. Conservatives believe that children should be forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance, and be forced to pray to Jesus in school, or be sent to GITMO. What a minute, that's just a strawm...oh I get it. Carry on.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

1st January 2010, 04:10 PM	#23
XBoxWarrior Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Down in the Treme... Posts: 1,232	I'm a Liberal because the other team is just bat crap crazy. /Palin //Tea Baggers ///Did I mention Palin?

1st January 2010, 04:24 PM	#24
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Four more good reasons why I am a liberal: 1. George W. Bush 2. Sarah Palin 3. Dick Cheney 4. Sarah Palin. (yes, Sarah Palin is such a good reason to be a liberal, that she deserves two spots)

1st January 2010, 04:28 PM	#25
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,668	I'm not a liberal any more because Palin is a conservative than I am a liberal because Michael Moore is an asshat. It simply doesn't matter.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

1st January 2010, 08:10 PM	#26
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,212	It's funny to watch extremists argue.
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,212

1st January 2010, 08:38 PM	#27
Corsair 115 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tranquility Base Posts: 8,583	Originally Posted by New Ager That's called socialized medicine which doesn't work. Again, gov't interference. I hope Architect doesn't see this thread. No, wait, I hope he does, because his reply to the above would be an excellent read.
	__________________ "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."

1st January 2010, 09:44 PM	#28
cornsail Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ohio Posts: 2,693	Liberal != Democrat Conservative !=Republican Liberals, in the typical American sense of the word, want public health care, decriminalized marijuana, fair regulation of corporations, fair trade agreements (i.e. not this NAFTA crap), equal rights for homosexuals, a moral foreign policy and so on.. Democrats in the capital are a whole different story.

2nd January 2010, 07:13 AM	#29
Alt+F4 diabolical globalist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Department of Abandoned Places Posts: 9,780	Originally Posted by Ziggurat And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives. Evidence? Last time I made a charitable donation I don't recall being asked about my politics.
	__________________ "My folks touched a lot of kids." - Jerry Sandusky

2nd January 2010, 10:46 AM	#30
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,202	Originally Posted by Alt+F4 Evidence? http://philanthropy.com/free/article...4/04001101.htm Quote: Last time I made a charitable donation I don't recall being asked about my politics. And nobody asked for my opinion of Obama, but yet he's got an approval rating. I wonder how they do that....
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

2nd January 2010, 10:55 AM	#31
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,668	Originally Posted by Ziggurat http://philanthropy.com/free/article...4/04001101.htm And nobody asked for my opinion of Obama, but yet he's got an approval rating. I wonder how they do that.... When you count giving money to the church (specifically the act of tithing) and tax shelter as charity, sure, it's pretty obvious that conservatives give more to 'charity'.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

2nd January 2010, 11:08 AM	#32
Alt+F4 diabolical globalist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Department of Abandoned Places Posts: 9,780	Originally Posted by Ziggurat http://philanthropy.com/free/article...4/04001101.htm That's a link to a book review about a book that says that religious people give more to charity than more secular people do. The author came to that conclusion based on conducting surveys, including email surveys. Doesn't sound too reliable to me.
	__________________ "My folks touched a lot of kids." - Jerry Sandusky

2nd January 2010, 03:27 PM	#33
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	I am a Liberal, though I was not always so. Here is why I am Liberal: 1. I believe that there are things that should be insured to exist through govt control, such as universal health care, welfare, criminal incarceration, etc... 2. I believe that taxation of all, at rates appropriate to one's income, is a core principle to sustaining a govt that can work for ALL the people. 3. I believe in a woman's right to choose in ALL circumstances. 4. I believe in COMPLETE separation of church and state. 5. I believe, when you take emotion and proximately to an event out, the best thing to do with murderers etc... is life in prison without parole, not the death penalty. 6. I believe in diplomacy first. 7. I believe in the world COMMUNITY, not the isolated interests of those who have the most. 8. I believe that relying on human "good nature" for all things beneficial or charity is wishful thinking. Hence, there are certain things (such as welfare, universal health care, etc...) where I prefer the govt to step in, rather then waiting for these so called good samaritans. 9. I believe in equal rights for all, straight, gay, man, woman, etc... TAM

2nd January 2010, 05:56 PM	#34
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by Ziggurat And yet, liberals give less to charity than conservatives. Sorry, parky, but desiring to help people through government programs (ie, with someone else's money) doesn't make you morally superior to people who want to do so privately. http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/6885.html Quote: The bottom line, the study suggests, is that little has changed in terms of income's general influence on individual voting patterns: in every presidential election since 1952, the richer a voter is, the more likely that voter is to vote Republican, regardless of ethnicity, sex, education or age. If you have a larger salary, a larger percentage can go to charity. Also keep in mind some of those charities aren't so charitable.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust? Last edited by KingMerv00; 2nd January 2010 at 05:57 PM.

2nd January 2010, 10:36 PM	#35
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,202	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/6885.html As has been pointed out before, conservative is not synonymous with Republican. Quote: If you have a larger salary, a larger percentage can go to charity. And yet, surveys of charitable giving of conservatives vs. liberals indicate the divide cuts across salary lines. Quote: Also keep in mind some of those charities aren't so charitable. And some of those government entitlement programs aren't so effective at helping out the truly needy either.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law