Pew Poll: 33% of Scientists are Theists

Malerin · 30th December 2009, 10:46 PM

Fairly new poll. Don't know if anyone's posted it yet.

http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=474

Scary trend for atheism?

"Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older."

dropzone · 30th December 2009, 10:59 PM

There's a difference between the two states. For one, I have some sort of "understanding" about Christianity. OTOneH, I find Christianity to be complete nonsense. My compromise is that I'm a weak Christian Monday thru Tuesday, and it grows weaker until the next Monday.

Really and truly, there is a WHOLE LOT to personal happiness that involves not paying much attention. Especially to the part that states the requirements. If you get too wrapped up in the rules it will make you unhappy. And really, regardless how you view God, He doesn't want you to be unhappy, does He?

dropzone · 30th December 2009, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Malerin

"Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older."

And really, they are where their parents were, way back when. It's not a battle of conquest but one in which the others keep advancing, step by step.

Cynic · 30th December 2009, 11:30 PM

I'm curious about the requirements to participate in the study. The site says "scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science", but then has category breakdowns from 18 years old. Now of course there are Doogie Housers out there, but this makes me wonder how they're qualifying "scientist" here.

It may mean nothing, but I'm curious how the disciplines break down within that survey as well. Biomedical professionals far, far outnumber physicists in the population at large, and have been growing. If this survey is sampling the guys who label the urine bottles at drug testing sites and considering that representative of "young scientists", maybe its not so good a survey.

I don't know if it's bad news though. A lot of things could explain the numbers. For instance, it could be that the growing "faith isn't incompatible with science" notion is catching on despite being somewhat of a misleading idea. Also, we might be witnessing an effect of an increased irrelevancy of religion on people's lives, e.g "Do I believe in a god? Uh, sure, man, whatever." Whereas previously the question might have been more important. It could also be that science is considered more open than it once was, more inclusive and attractive to a wider audience. Previously it might have been primarily likely to attract people who were also inclined toward atheism by their natures.

Or it could be exactly what it looks like, which isn't so much bad news for atheism but for science, IMO, but so long as the science is practiced correctly, whatever. Other polls have shown that atheism is on the rise in the general population. I'm not worried.

PixyMisa · 30th December 2009, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Malerin

Fairly new poll. Don't know if anyone's posted it yet.

http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=474

Scary trend for atheism?

33% in 2009, down from 40% in 1996.

Scary trend for theism?

Quote:

"Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older."

Well, they'll learn. Heck, I was a Christian until I was 12.

PixyMisa · 30th December 2009, 11:44 PM

To determine what the age-bracket trend is, we'd need to see the age-bracket analysis from prior polls.

There's two ways this could happen, after all: One the one hand, if views don't (or rarely) change, in which case this tends to indicate an uptick in belief among younger scientists, which would be odd since the trend in the broader population is the opposite.

On the other, if views do change over time, we could well see the same pattern of decline in belief with age in prior polls. Need data!

Safe-Keeper · 31st December 2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Scary trend for atheism?

That only one third of scientists are theists? Why should it be?

And should it matter to atheists that they're scientists? The "atheism=science freak" stereotype is just that... a baseless stereotype. Scientists don't represent atheism more than basketball players represent Afro-Americans.

The Atheist · 31st December 2009, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Malerin

Scary trend for atheism?

"Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older."

As has been said, those young 'uns will live and learn.

It is beautiful illustration that higher education helps stop the delusion of thinking there's a sky-daddy.

Based on the less-than-half belief ratio of the general population, it would be scarier for thesists, I'd expect.

Soapy Sam · 31st December 2009, 01:19 AM

In any case, it's not as if it's a real poll.

It's just a dream.

PixyMisa · 31st December 2009, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

As has been said, those young 'uns will live and learn.

It is beautiful illustration that higher education helps stop the delusion of thinking there's a sky-daddy.

Post-hoc fallacy.

It could equally be that lacking the delusion of thinking there's a sky-daddy helps higher education.

Gawdzilla · 31st December 2009, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by Malerin

Fairly new poll. Don't know if anyone's posted it yet.

http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=474

Scary trend for atheism?

"Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older."

Remember that one of Pew's missions is to promote religion in America. There may be a bias here.

joobz · 31st December 2009, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by Malerin

Scary trend for atheism?

"Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older."

I don't know any 18 year old scientists.
People typically finish BS at 21 years old and then finish the PhD by 25-26 years old. What I'd be interested in knowing is what the 18-25 and 25-34 break down is.

Further, the evidence shows a decline in belief as you move up the age brackets. How does this contrast with the general public? I would have thought that belief increased with age (as one grows closer to death).

what I'm interested in is that 24% of the 18-34 year old eblieve in a "higher power" but not god. Doesn't that pose a problem for christianity and other mainline religions?

Gawdzilla · 31st December 2009, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by joobz

I don't know any 18 year old scientists.
People typically finish BS at 21 years old and then finish the PhD by 25-26 years old. What I'd be interested in knowing is what the 18-25 and 25-34 break down is.

Further, the evidence shows a decline in belief as you move up the age brackets. How does this contrast with the general public? I would have thought that belief increased with age (as one grows closer to death).

what I'm interested in is that 24% of the 18-34 year old eblieve in a "higher power" but not god. Doesn't that pose a problem for christianity and other mainline religions?

They're simply trying to counter a recent poll that shows young people are more likely to be areligious in steadily increasing numbers over the past 50 or so years.

wollery · 31st December 2009, 06:13 AM

More to the point, there's no contradiction between being a good scientist and being theist of almost any stripe.

I used to work with a Jesuit priest, and he was a damned good extra-galactic astronomer.

joobz · 31st December 2009, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by wollery

More to the point, there's no contradiction between being a good scientist and being theist of almost any stripe.

I used to work with a Jesuit priest, and he was a damned good extra-galactic astronomer.

funny. the thought never even crossed my mind.

Gawdzilla · 31st December 2009, 06:26 AM

And to think that survey that showed 98% of members of the National Academy of Scientists were agnostic or atheist got it so wrong. ;-)

Hokulele · 31st December 2009, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Malerin

Scary trend for atheism?

I should use an argument from popularity/argument from misplaced authority to become a theist?

Malerin · 31st December 2009, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Hokulele

I should use an argument from popularity/argument from misplaced authority to become a theist?

Pew's not an authority on polling?

Lord Emsworth · 31st December 2009, 10:28 AM

Shoudn't that read "Scary trend towards atheism"?

Malerin · 31st December 2009, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Emsworth

Shoudn't that read "Scary trend towards atheism"?

That would probably be more accurate. There's been a 9 point drop since 1914.

Luckily, I stuck a question mark in there!

PixyMisa · 31st December 2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Malerin

Pew's not an authority on polling?

Non-sequitur.

Hokulele · 31st December 2009, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Malerin

Pew's not an authority on polling?

*Facepalm*

joobz · 31st December 2009, 11:34 AM

Seriously what's an 18 year old scientist?

Achán hiNidráne · 31st December 2009, 01:45 PM

If this poll is true, then it seems to me the scientific community isn't doing squat to clean it's own house.

Beth · 31st December 2009, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by joobz

Seriously what's an 18 year old scientist?

I wouldn't read too much into that. It's not unusual for a survey to simply record which age group a person falls in. The groups are likely defined and asked on all sorts of different surveys. They probably just used a standard grouping.

Beth · 31st December 2009, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Mark A. Siefert

If this poll is true, then it seems to me the scientific community isn't doing squat to clean it's own house.

What do you think they should do about it?

Bob Klase · 31st December 2009, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mark A. Siefert

If this poll is true, then it seems to me the scientific community isn't doing squat to clean it's own house.

Perhaps someone needs to have a talk with the guy that runs the 'scientific community'. Get rid of that independent thinking paradigm and make sure everyone toes the party line just like the Catholic church does.

Hux · 1st January 2010, 08:06 AM

I suspect some of them are just taking the piss.

30th December 2009, 10:46 PM	#1
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341	Pew Poll: 33% of Scientists are Theists Fairly new poll. Don't know if anyone's posted it yet. http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=474 Scary trend for atheism? "Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older."
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341

30th December 2009, 11:30 PM	#4
Cynic Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,331	I'm curious about the requirements to participate in the study. The site says "scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science", but then has category breakdowns from 18 years old. Now of course there are Doogie Housers out there, but this makes me wonder how they're qualifying "scientist" here. It may mean nothing, but I'm curious how the disciplines break down within that survey as well. Biomedical professionals far, far outnumber physicists in the population at large, and have been growing. If this survey is sampling the guys who label the urine bottles at drug testing sites and considering that representative of "young scientists", maybe its not so good a survey. I don't know if it's bad news though. A lot of things could explain the numbers. For instance, it could be that the growing "faith isn't incompatible with science" notion is catching on despite being somewhat of a misleading idea. Also, we might be witnessing an effect of an increased irrelevancy of religion on people's lives, e.g "Do I believe in a god? Uh, sure, man, whatever." Whereas previously the question might have been more important. It could also be that science is considered more open than it once was, more inclusive and attractive to a wider audience. Previously it might have been primarily likely to attract people who were also inclined toward atheism by their natures. Or it could be exactly what it looks like, which isn't so much bad news for atheism but for science, IMO, but so long as the science is practiced correctly, whatever. Other polls have shown that atheism is on the rise in the general population. I'm not worried.
	__________________ The slackjaw gaze of true profanity feels more like surrender than defeat -- if culture is the curse of the thinking class. -- Neil Peart

30th December 2009, 11:40 PM	#5
PixyMisa Persnickety Insect Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sunny Munuvia Posts: 14,913	Originally Posted by Malerin Fairly new poll. Don't know if anyone's posted it yet. http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=474 Scary trend for atheism? 33% in 2009, down from 40% in 1996. Scary trend for theism? Quote: "Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older." Well, they'll learn. Heck, I was a Christian until I was 12.
	__________________ Free blogs for skeptics... And everyone else. mee.nu What, in the Holy Name of Gzortch, are you people doing?!?!!? - TGHO

30th December 2009, 11:44 PM	#6
PixyMisa Persnickety Insect Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sunny Munuvia Posts: 14,913	To determine what the age-bracket trend is, we'd need to see the age-bracket analysis from prior polls. There's two ways this could happen, after all: One the one hand, if views don't (or rarely) change, in which case this tends to indicate an uptick in belief among younger scientists, which would be odd since the trend in the broader population is the opposite. On the other, if views do change over time, we could well see the same pattern of decline in belief with age in prior polls. Need data!
	__________________ Free blogs for skeptics... And everyone else. mee.nu What, in the Holy Name of Gzortch, are you people doing?!?!!? - TGHO

31st December 2009, 12:04 AM	#8
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Originally Posted by Malerin Scary trend for atheism? "Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older." As has been said, those young 'uns will live and learn. It is beautiful illustration that higher education helps stop the delusion of thinking there's a sky-daddy. Based on the less-than-half belief ratio of the general population, it would be scarier for thesists, I'd expect.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

30th December 2009, 10:59 PM	#2
dropzone Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,666	There's a difference between the two states. For one, I have some sort of "understanding" about Christianity. OTOneH, I find Christianity to be complete nonsense. My compromise is that I'm a weak Christian Monday thru Tuesday, and it grows weaker until the next Monday. Really and truly, there is a WHOLE LOT to personal happiness that involves not paying much attention. Especially to the part that states the requirements. If you get too wrapped up in the rules it will make you unhappy. And really, regardless how you view God, He doesn't want you to be unhappy, does He?

30th December 2009, 11:02 PM	#3
dropzone Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,666	Originally Posted by Malerin "Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older." And really, they are where their parents were, way back when. It's not a battle of conquest but one in which the others keep advancing, step by step.

31st December 2009, 12:01 AM	#7
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,112	Quote: Scary trend for atheism? That only one third of scientists are theists? Why should it be? And should it matter to atheists that they're scientists? The "atheism=science freak" stereotype is just that... a baseless stereotype. Scientists don't represent atheism more than basketball players represent Afro-Americans.

31st December 2009, 01:19 AM	#9
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	In any case, it's not as if it's a real poll. It's just a dream.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

31st December 2009, 01:24 AM	#10
PixyMisa Persnickety Insect Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sunny Munuvia Posts: 14,913	Originally Posted by The Atheist As has been said, those young 'uns will live and learn. It is beautiful illustration that higher education helps stop the delusion of thinking there's a sky-daddy. Post-hoc fallacy. It could equally be that lacking the delusion of thinking there's a sky-daddy helps higher education.
	__________________ Free blogs for skeptics... And everyone else. mee.nu What, in the Holy Name of Gzortch, are you people doing?!?!!? - TGHO

31st December 2009, 04:52 AM	#11
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,485	Originally Posted by Malerin Fairly new poll. Don't know if anyone's posted it yet. http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=474 Scary trend for atheism? "Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older." Remember that one of Pew's missions is to promote religion in America. There may be a bias here.
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

31st December 2009, 05:33 AM	#12
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,497	Originally Posted by Malerin Scary trend for atheism? "Meanwhile, younger scientists (ages 18-34) are more likely to believe in God or a higher power than those who are older." I don't know any 18 year old scientists. People typically finish BS at 21 years old and then finish the PhD by 25-26 years old. What I'd be interested in knowing is what the 18-25 and 25-34 break down is. Further, the evidence shows a decline in belief as you move up the age brackets. How does this contrast with the general public? I would have thought that belief increased with age (as one grows closer to death). what I'm interested in is that 24% of the 18-34 year old eblieve in a "higher power" but not god. Doesn't that pose a problem for christianity and other mainline religions?
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

31st December 2009, 05:45 AM	#13
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,485	Originally Posted by joobz I don't know any 18 year old scientists. People typically finish BS at 21 years old and then finish the PhD by 25-26 years old. What I'd be interested in knowing is what the 18-25 and 25-34 break down is. Further, the evidence shows a decline in belief as you move up the age brackets. How does this contrast with the general public? I would have thought that belief increased with age (as one grows closer to death). what I'm interested in is that 24% of the 18-34 year old eblieve in a "higher power" but not god. Doesn't that pose a problem for christianity and other mainline religions? They're simply trying to counter a recent poll that shows young people are more likely to be areligious in steadily increasing numbers over the past 50 or so years.
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

31st December 2009, 06:13 AM	#14
wollery Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs! TLA Winner Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Land of Eternal Hope Posts: 10,316	More to the point, there's no contradiction between being a good scientist and being theist of almost any stripe. I used to work with a Jesuit priest, and he was a damned good extra-galactic astronomer.
	__________________ "You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

31st December 2009, 06:16 AM	#15
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,497	Originally Posted by wollery More to the point, there's no contradiction between being a good scientist and being theist of almost any stripe. I used to work with a Jesuit priest, and he was a damned good extra-galactic astronomer. funny. the thought never even crossed my mind.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

31st December 2009, 06:26 AM	#16
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,485	And to think that survey that showed 98% of members of the National Academy of Scientists were agnostic or atheist got it so wrong. ;-)
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

31st December 2009, 10:08 AM	#17
Hokulele Official Nemesis Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Trying to decide whether to set defenses against an army, or against mole rats. Posts: 27,268	Originally Posted by Malerin Scary trend for atheism? I should use an argument from popularity/argument from misplaced authority to become a theist?
	__________________ Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" Some person: "Why did you shoot that?" Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" - Tragic Monkey

31st December 2009, 10:22 AM	#18
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341	Originally Posted by Hokulele I should use an argument from popularity/argument from misplaced authority to become a theist? Pew's not an authority on polling?
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341

31st December 2009, 10:28 AM	#19
Lord Emsworth Je ne suis pas une de vos élèves Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Through the Cables and the Underground ... Posts: 2,827	Shoudn't that read "Scary trend towards atheism"?

31st December 2009, 10:52 AM	#20
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341	Originally Posted by Lord Emsworth Shoudn't that read "Scary trend towards atheism"? That would probably be more accurate. There's been a 9 point drop since 1914. Luckily, I stuck a question mark in there!
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341

31st December 2009, 10:53 AM	#21
PixyMisa Persnickety Insect Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sunny Munuvia Posts: 14,913	Originally Posted by Malerin Pew's not an authority on polling? Non-sequitur.
	__________________ Free blogs for skeptics... And everyone else. mee.nu What, in the Holy Name of Gzortch, are you people doing?!?!!? - TGHO

31st December 2009, 11:20 AM	#22
Hokulele Official Nemesis Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Trying to decide whether to set defenses against an army, or against mole rats. Posts: 27,268	Originally Posted by Malerin Pew's not an authority on polling? Facepalm
	__________________ Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" Some person: "Why did you shoot that?" Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" - Tragic Monkey

31st December 2009, 11:34 AM	#23
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,497	Seriously what's an 18 year old scientist?
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

31st December 2009, 01:45 PM	#24
Achán hiNidráne Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Muskego, WI. Posts: 3,979	If this poll is true, then it seems to me the scientific community isn't doing squat to clean it's own house.
	__________________ "As the Corpse Lord knows, men today are ill-trained--ignoble: naught but wet anuses dribbling childish terrors and superstitions! Thus is knowledge--history, science, the world of the ancients--lost, never to be regained!" --M.A.R. Barker, "The Man of Gold"

31st December 2009, 02:00 PM	#25
Beth Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Flatland Posts: 5,307	Originally Posted by joobz Seriously what's an 18 year old scientist? I wouldn't read too much into that. It's not unusual for a survey to simply record which age group a person falls in. The groups are likely defined and asked on all sorts of different surveys. They probably just used a standard grouping.
	__________________ Beth "You are not the stuff of which you are made." Richard Dawkins, July 2005, 10:45 http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_daw..._universe.html Last edited by Beth; 31st December 2009 at 02:02 PM.

31st December 2009, 02:01 PM	#26
Beth Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Flatland Posts: 5,307	Originally Posted by Mark A. Siefert If this poll is true, then it seems to me the scientific community isn't doing squat to clean it's own house. What do you think they should do about it?
	__________________ Beth "You are not the stuff of which you are made." Richard Dawkins, July 2005, 10:45 http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_daw..._universe.html

31st December 2009, 02:04 PM	#27
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,833	Originally Posted by Mark A. Siefert If this poll is true, then it seems to me the scientific community isn't doing squat to clean it's own house. Perhaps someone needs to have a talk with the guy that runs the 'scientific community'. Get rid of that independent thinking paradigm and make sure everyone toes the party line just like the Catholic church does.

1st January 2010, 08:06 AM	#28
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,080	I suspect some of them are just taking the piss.
Hux Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,080	__________________ *...people of faith who are that intelligent they've only managed to fool themselves* - MARDUK