Which Cult or Sect is Most Dangerous?

corplinx · 26th February 2003, 11:44 AM

If you had to pick a cult or sect that poses the largest threat to american or world society, who would you pick and why?

Examples:
Scientology
Latter Day Saints
Nation of Islam

What do you think?

Franko · 26th February 2003, 11:48 AM

The A-Theists -- no doubt.

hehehe ... I see you are a fellow fan of "The Brak Show".

hehe ... the father cracks me up!

Akots · 26th February 2003, 11:55 AM

I'd say scientology. No doubt about it. That cult was designed specificaly to suck people in, wring out anything of value, and toss them away, while still leaving them coming back for more.

Disgusting.

corplinx · 26th February 2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Franko
hehehe ... I see you are a fellow fan of "The Brak Show".

Carl is on the Aqua Teen Hunger Force, not "the Braq Show".

Upchurch · 26th February 2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Akots
I'd say scientology. No doubt about it. That cult was designed specificaly to suck people in, wring out anything of value, and toss them away, while still leaving them coming back for more.

Disgusting.

From what I've read of them, I'd have to agree. Scientology is pure capitalism with little interest in helping its followers.

Yahzi · 26th February 2003, 12:08 PM

Catholicism. Not as virulent as those others, but far, far larger and more powerful.

Fundamentalist Xianity is more of an immediate threat, though.

26th February 2003, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahzi
Catholicism. Not as virulent as those others, but far, far larger and more powerful.

Fundamentalist Xianity is more of an immediate threat, though.

The moderates and light Xians are easy to tolerate. The Fundie's are impossible to deal with!

Beleth · 26th February 2003, 12:11 PM

Scientology is worst for its members, but it sounds like it actually has so few members that I don't consider it the worst threat to American or world society.

I think that honor goes to Islamic Fundamentalism. I also think that someone's going to be angry at me for thinking that.

Aoidoi · 26th February 2003, 12:11 PM

Tough call. Some random thoughts on the matter.

Scientology tends to destroy the members, but other cults try to kill non-members too. What was that Japanese one with the Sarin gas in the subway? Aum-Shiro or something?

Heaven's Gate just killed themselves. What about Jim Jones? He had a pretty impressive body count.

Nation of Islam is rather violent but I don't recall much about their actions.

How about Manson with Helter Skelter? That sun one that has had numerous suicides? There was one in Africa that had a whole bunch of fatalities.

But really, right at the moment I'd have to give "top" honors to the cult in charge of North Korea. Hard to top millions starving and nuclear brinkmanship.

corplinx · 26th February 2003, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahzi
Catholicism. Not as virulent as those others, but far, far larger and more powerful.

Fundamentalist Xianity is more of an immediate threat, though.

On one hand you have the Catholic church uber-dedicated to a fearless leader and his henchmen. Fearless leader however is very much a pacifist. I don't see major problems unless we had another outright evil man take the reigns with enough bishops and cardinals supporting him to get his agenda through. I don't think this could happen though in the modern catholic church.

On the other hand you have the decentralized fundamentalist christians. The Assemblies of God, the United Pentacostals, the Southern Baptists, First Baptists, Primitive Baptists, and other fundamentalist sects. They aren't organized or proactive enough to be a real threat. The most they seem to do is cause the occasional gridlock in a school board over evolution. There is the occasional whacko who bombs and abortion clinic but that person is mental to begin with.

fidiot · 26th February 2003, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Franko
The A-Theists -- no doubt.

hehehe ... I see you are a fellow fan of "The Brak Show".

hehe ... the father cracks me up!

Zorak is the best character.

corplinx · 26th February 2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beleth

I think that honor goes to Islamic Fundamentalism. I also think that someone's going to be angry at me for thinking that.

Why be mad? Its a good discussion point. Fundementalist Islam sects are probably responsible for somewhere around 5000 deaths in the past 2 years (rough estimate based on 9-11, Bali, Kenya, varios Israeli civillian attacks). That estimate doesn't take into consideration Chechnya, Sudan, or other places which I am not as familiar with.

However, you can't lump in all of these groups as one. Each has its own members and agenda.

Franko · 26th February 2003, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Carl is on the Aqua Teen Hunger Force, not "the Braq Show".

Doh! Yeah, I like that one too though … hehehe meatwad! Who comes up with this stuff?

Sealab 2021 is pretty funny too.

Quote:

Zorak is the best character.

he’s hysterical, but I still like the father the best. He reminds me (a little) of another of my favorite TV characters … Gomez Adams.

26th February 2003, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by corplinx
If you had to pick a cult or sect that poses the largest threat to american or world society, who would you pick and why?

Examples:
Scientology
Latter Day Saints
Nation of Islam

What do you think?

I think the intolerant people, in general are the most serious problem facing any society.

Akots · 26th February 2003, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini

I think the intolerant people, in general are the most serious problem facing any society.

Certainly that, and yes, intolerance is often independant of religion. But some religions, the way they are run nowadays, provide a fertile breeding ground for intolerance. I think the question is, which religion is most openly suceptible to intolerance. Scientology, for example, teaches it's members to be as intolerant of scientists and rational thinkers as possible. This is because if they werent, they'd leave scientology.

There are many religions I think that were beneficial in their inception, but succumbed to corruption over the decades. I vote Scientology because it was NEVER intended to benefit anyone, other than a handful of it's own preists, living in the lap of luxury while their disciples suffer mental and physical hardship.

I will admit that it is not the most influential cult, but it is certainly the most destructive to the individuals it does snare.

hammegk · 26th February 2003, 12:47 PM

Secular-humanistic, Atheistic, communism has by far the highest body count, and holds the potential for similar destructiveness on a world-wide scale. US-UK-Canada-Australia are the core effective force counterbalancing the New World (communist dictatorship) Order the remainder of the world appears to so badly crave.

The cults & sects mentioned so far will never have similar massive destructive capability, imnsho.

Tricky · 26th February 2003, 12:49 PM

Before we go getting all political here, I think we should address the "what is a cult" issue (yeah, I know it's been done before). I cannot classify fundamental Baptists or Moslems as cults, since they are both major branches of a major religion. Scientology is probably pretty safe to call a cult, but not Mormons (at least not any more). Al Qaeda for sure, and probably Nation of Islam. Most cults have a single charismatic leader. Also we have to ask if a group must be "dangerous" before being a cult?

headscratcher4 · 26th February 2003, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by corplinx
If you had to pick a cult or sect that poses the largest threat to american or world society, who would you pick and why?

Examples:
Scientology
Latter Day Saints
Nation of Islam

What do you think?

Far and away, the Brownies.

Aoidoi · 26th February 2003, 12:58 PM

I don't feel my weekend is complete until I've watched Sealab 2021. One of the funniest shows I've ever seen.

Er, yeah. Back to cults. I was using the term broadly, but I think that NK counts as it's really a cult based on a single leader, I can't think of any other way to describe a country where a third of it's GDP spent on the military while millions starve and yet the people still worship their "Dear" leader.

I suppose this leaves the door open to Nazism and Stalinism as cults, but my definition is still a work in progress.

Akots · 26th February 2003, 01:00 PM

A cult should be defined as a religion with non-divine origins.

Yeah... that'll hold water in this forum... well, let's put it this way; a FULL cult is a religion created specifically to exploit people.

The reason it's such a blurry line between Scientology and fundamental Christianity is because religion invariably requires faith and trust; in both God, and the human executors of the faith. And wherever unconditional faith exists, people can be easily exploited.

Tricky · 26th February 2003, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Akots
A cult should be defined as a religion with non-divine origins.

Sorry Akots. I can't really buy this definition. Buddhism (at least large parts of it) have non-divine origins. I would hesitate to call it a cult. Perhaps B'hai too, but I honestly don't know enough about B'hai to say for sure.

Ipecac · 26th February 2003, 01:27 PM

Fnord.

Upchurch · 26th February 2003, 01:57 PM

How about a cult is a religious organization that harms its followers.

Akots · 26th February 2003, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky

Sorry Akots. I can't really buy this definition. Buddhism (at least large parts of it) have non-divine origins. I would hesitate to call it a cult. Perhaps B'hai too, but I honestly don't know enough about B'hai to say for sure.

Well, i can't keep quiet now, can i...

The Bahá'í faith has what it believes to be divine origins. Founded by Bahá'u'lláh only a few decades ago, it holds it's leader as a "manifestation of God", and consider their teachings to be of divine origin. They have a rather unconventional viewpoint on their doctrines, which give guidelines and morals on just about every modern issue available. It is not an offshoot of islam, but bears some superficial resemblances, such as prayer, chastity before marriage, and abstinance from alcohol.

The three most important teachings they maintain are:
1) Although God has many names and aspects, there is only one God, and no one name is any more appropriate than another.
2) Despite all physical, mental or social differences, all mankind is equal. No gender, age, or race is inherantly superior to any other, despite our social or political differences.
3) The major religions are sequential, with each religion's teachings tailored to a specific age of human development.

It is from this last teaching that my previous defenition emerged; that many faiths are not truly supplied by a manifestation of God. To say that they are any less spiritually enriching to their followers would be false, and to say their prayers are ignored for this reason is extremely hippocritical of me. I didn't mean to imply that.

I do submit that my first decleration was quite flawed... any form of faith that supports the betterment of mankind shouldn't be reffered to as a cult. I never said it would hold water.

The proof is really in the pudding; the actions and behavior of the members itself, on both a global and community scale, should be the deciding factor as to wether the faith is destructive or constructive.

Considering I do feel a certain pain when my faith is reffered to as a cult, i have no right to start tossing around a word myself.

(And yes, dammit... I DID have to copy/paste the accents over Bahá'í and Bahá'u'lláh... i am not yet so enlightened as to be able to find the symbols on my keyboard at a whim.

)

corplinx · 26th February 2003, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky
Before we go getting all political here, I think we should address the "what is a cult" issue (yeah, I know it's been done before).

That is why I included sects.

Aoidoi · 26th February 2003, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by corplinx
That is why I included sects.

Well I'm all for sects! Oh, wait. Nevermind.

26th February 2003, 02:55 PM

Here is a good definition of a cult (at least, I like it

).

26th February 2003, 05:52 PM

Pseudo skeptics.

Are part of this Forum.

Thanks,
S&S

26th February 2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini

I think the intolerant people, in general are the most serious problem facing any society.

That includes people intolerent of atheists, right?

26th February 2003, 05:57 PM

----
Scientology, for example, teaches it's members to be as intolerant of scientists and rational thinkers as possible.
----

----
....Scientology because it was NEVER intended to benefit anyone, other than a handful of it's own preists, living in the lap of luxury while their disciples suffer mental and physical hardship.
----

Can you find Scientology literature where those things are listed? Name of source, date, and page #, please.

Thanks.

specious_reasons · 26th February 2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini

Can you find Scientology literature where those things are listed? Name of source, date, and page #, please.

Thanks.

Kinda hard to do when Scientology sues to keep their "religion" from public scrutiny. Evidence of its bad practices abound on the internet. Why do you choose to defend this? It seems like you're doing this just to be contrary.

On to the original topic: How do we define dangerous?

There's a few ways:
1. Violence towards its members.
2. Violence to people outside the cult.
3. Psychological harm to its members.
4. Exterting undue influence on political systems.

Anything else?

Beleth · 26th February 2003, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Akots

There are many religions I think that were beneficial in their inception, but succumbed to corruption over the decades. I vote Scientology because it was NEVER intended to benefit anyone, other than a handful of it's own preists, living in the lap of luxury while their disciples suffer mental and physical hardship.

I've always wondered about this part of the anti-Scientology argument. I mean, there are people that have gotten REALLY high up into the Scientology ranks before they got the sense knocked into them, right? I mean, Sea Org level people, if i remember correctly. And all they ever did was pay, pay, pay.

How come nobody who ever defected from Scientology was ever in the "receive, receive, receive" level? Didn't anyone that high up ever have a crisis of conscience? Or maybe there is NO "receive, receive, receive" level. Where's all this incredible amount of money going?

I'm not defending Scientology. It just seems like it's got an incredible income with absolutely no visible outgo.

Tricky · 26th February 2003, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Akots

Well, i can't keep quiet now, can i...

Thanks for the info, Akots. I feel much better informed now. I find that I agree much with the philosophy of the Bahá'í faith, but not the mythology. Same thing for Paganism. Same thing, to some extent, for Christianity. I think that most religions are founded on good principles, but that humans corrupt those principles. If they could stick to the philosophy and forget the dogma, they would be much better off.

Quote:

Originally posted by Akots
Considering I do feel a certain pain when my faith is reffered to as a cult, i have no right to start tossing around a word myself.

I do not think that many people consider the Bahá'í to be a cult. My experience with Bahá'íans (or whatever you call them) is that they are them most gentle and peaceful of souls. They could not in any sense be called predatory. Heck, you practically have to tie them down and feed them sodium penathol to get them to talk about their religion.

If you feel like starting a thread to discuss this, I would be very interested.

P.S.
Sorry to blow your cover.

26th February 2003, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanSTC

That includes people intolerent of atheists, right?

Most definitely DanSTC.

Questioninggeller · 26th February 2003, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Upchurch

From what I've read of them, I'd have to agree. Scientology is pure capitalism with little interest in helping its followers.

Unless you are very rich, and are completely full of yourself... I can't see anyone be a part of that. Isn't is basic principles like forms of Satanism. What does science have to do iwht that belief... oh it convinces the morons that it is basic on "fact". Please... I wish people were smarter.

But aren't all forms of religion harmfull in some way?

BTW: Isn't John Travolta and Tom Cruise scientlogy believers?

Frank Newgent · 26th February 2003, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ipecac
Fnord.

Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!

26th February 2003, 08:42 PM

Fundamentalist Xianity is more of an immediate threat, though.

Yahzi... realizing that you still have me on ignore, I'm probably wasting my time. But I'd love for you to demonstrate how fundi Christians are more of an immediate threat than fundi Islamic peeps.

Remember, Fundi Christians comprise about 8% of the US population. That's roughly 22 million people. If there were 22 million fudamentalist Muslims in this country, we'd see incredible levels of death and brutality.

Flick

26th February 2003, 09:39 PM

----
If you had to pick a cult or sect that poses the largest threat to american or world society, who would you pick and why?

Examples:
Scientology
Latter Day Saints
Nation of Islam

What do you think?
----

Corplinx,

I don't even agree with your examples. I don't consider any of those "cults", and I certainly don't consider any of those threats.

I probably know several people from each of the groups.

LucyR · 26th February 2003, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
----
If you had to pick a cult or sect that poses the largest threat to american or world society, who would you pick and why?

Examples:
Scientology
Latter Day Saints
Nation of Islam

What do you think?
----

Corplinx,

I don't even agree with your examples. I don't consider any of those "cults", and I certainly don't consider any of those threats.

I probably know several people from each of the groups.

What groups, organizations, etc., do you consider to be examples of cults?

Yahzi · 26th February 2003, 10:33 PM

Quote:

I don't see major problems unless we had another outright evil man take the reigns with enough bishops and cardinals supporting him to get his agenda through.

I see a Cardinal in Nicaruga trying to put a nine-year old girl in jail for having an abortion after she was raped.

If $cientologists tried to do that, people would raise bloody hell. Instead, we have a few hundred million people basically agreeing that nine year old girls should be forced to carry their rapist's baby.

I think that qualifies as a lot more dangerous than anything the $cientologists have managed to date.

Quote:

BTW: Isn't John Travolta and Tom Cruise scientlogy believers?

Yes. Deeply so. But remember, the $cientology they practice has little or nothing to do with what the people on the street get. They are still flaming a**holes for being $cientologists, though.

Quote:

Didn't anyone that high up ever have a crisis of conscience?

Over what? Recieving too much power and money?

The money flows to the top, where it is squandered on stupid stuff. Like, for instance, that wretched movie.

Whodini
Still defending your $cientology, eh? You suck worse than I ever would have believed possible.

For all of you interested, here is a great link:

http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfmconte.htm

26th February 2003, 11:44 AM	#1
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Which Cult or Sect is Most Dangerous? If you had to pick a cult or sect that poses the largest threat to american or world society, who would you pick and why? Examples: Scientology Latter Day Saints Nation of Islam What do you think?
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944

26th February 2003, 11:48 AM	#2
Franko Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,338	The A-Theists -- no doubt. hehehe ... I see you are a fellow fan of "The Brak Show". hehe ... the father cracks me up!
Franko Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,338

26th February 2003, 11:55 AM	#3
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	I'd say scientology. No doubt about it. That cult was designed specificaly to suck people in, wring out anything of value, and toss them away, while still leaving them coming back for more. Disgusting.
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	__________________ I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you, quantum mechanics!

26th February 2003, 12:01 PM	#4
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Quote: Originally posted by Franko hehehe ... I see you are a fellow fan of "The Brak Show". Carl is on the Aqua Teen Hunger Force, not "the Braq Show".
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944

26th February 2003, 12:10 PM	#7
chessmanskeptic Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Yahzi Catholicism. Not as virulent as those others, but far, far larger and more powerful. Fundamentalist Xianity is more of an immediate threat, though. The moderates and light Xians are easy to tolerate. The Fundie's are impossible to deal with!
chessmanskeptic Guest Posts: n/a

26th February 2003, 12:03 PM	#5
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Funky Town (STL, MO) Posts: 23,428	Quote: Originally posted by Akots I'd say scientology. No doubt about it. That cult was designed specificaly to suck people in, wring out anything of value, and toss them away, while still leaving them coming back for more. Disgusting. From what I've read of them, I'd have to agree. Scientology is pure capitalism with little interest in helping its followers.

26th February 2003, 12:08 PM	#6
Yahzi Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 2,672	Catholicism. Not as virulent as those others, but far, far larger and more powerful. Fundamentalist Xianity is more of an immediate threat, though.

26th February 2003, 12:11 PM	#8
Beleth FAQ Creator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Not in a cave Posts: 4,134	Scientology is worst for its members, but it sounds like it actually has so few members that I don't consider it the worst threat to American or world society. I think that honor goes to Islamic Fundamentalism. I also think that someone's going to be angry at me for thinking that.
	__________________ Administrator and Head Moderator, The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe Forum Big Fan, Stop Sylvia Browne I will come back only after the words "Hi, Nyarl!" are returned to the post http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...5&postcount=14 .

26th February 2003, 12:11 PM	#9
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,418	Tough call. Some random thoughts on the matter. Scientology tends to destroy the members, but other cults try to kill non-members too. What was that Japanese one with the Sarin gas in the subway? Aum-Shiro or something? Heaven's Gate just killed themselves. What about Jim Jones? He had a pretty impressive body count. Nation of Islam is rather violent but I don't recall much about their actions. How about Manson with Helter Skelter? That sun one that has had numerous suicides? There was one in Africa that had a whole bunch of fatalities. But really, right at the moment I'd have to give "top" honors to the cult in charge of North Korea. Hard to top millions starving and nuclear brinkmanship.
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,418	__________________ "The priests used to say that faith can move mountains, and nobody believed them. Today the scientists say that they can level mountains, and nobody doubts them." - Joseph Campbell We cannot defend freedom abroad by abandoning it at home. —Edward R. Murrow

26th February 2003, 12:13 PM	#10
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Quote: Originally posted by Yahzi Catholicism. Not as virulent as those others, but far, far larger and more powerful. Fundamentalist Xianity is more of an immediate threat, though. On one hand you have the Catholic church uber-dedicated to a fearless leader and his henchmen. Fearless leader however is very much a pacifist. I don't see major problems unless we had another outright evil man take the reigns with enough bishops and cardinals supporting him to get his agenda through. I don't think this could happen though in the modern catholic church. On the other hand you have the decentralized fundamentalist christians. The Assemblies of God, the United Pentacostals, the Southern Baptists, First Baptists, Primitive Baptists, and other fundamentalist sects. They aren't organized or proactive enough to be a real threat. The most they seem to do is cause the occasional gridlock in a school board over evolution. There is the occasional whacko who bombs and abortion clinic but that person is mental to begin with.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944

26th February 2003, 12:14 PM	#11
fidiot Thinker Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 181	Quote: Originally posted by Franko The A-Theists -- no doubt. hehehe ... I see you are a fellow fan of "The Brak Show". hehe ... the father cracks me up! Zorak is the best character.
fidiot Thinker Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 181	__________________ "If the book the Bible and my brain are both the work of the same Infinite God, whose fault is it that the book and my brain do not agree?" - Robert Ingersoll "No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude." - Karl Popper

26th February 2003, 12:18 PM	#12
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Quote: Originally posted by Beleth I think that honor goes to Islamic Fundamentalism. I also think that someone's going to be angry at me for thinking that. Why be mad? Its a good discussion point. Fundementalist Islam sects are probably responsible for somewhere around 5000 deaths in the past 2 years (rough estimate based on 9-11, Bali, Kenya, varios Israeli civillian attacks). That estimate doesn't take into consideration Chechnya, Sudan, or other places which I am not as familiar with. However, you can't lump in all of these groups as one. Each has its own members and agenda.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944

26th February 2003, 12:28 PM	#13
Franko Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,338	Quote: Carl is on the Aqua Teen Hunger Force, not "the Braq Show". Doh! Yeah, I like that one too though … hehehe meatwad! Who comes up with this stuff? Sealab 2021 is pretty funny too. Quote: Zorak is the best character. he’s hysterical, but I still like the father the best. He reminds me (a little) of another of my favorite TV characters … Gomez Adams.
Franko Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,338

26th February 2003, 12:37 PM	#14
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Which Cult or Sect is Most Dangerous? Quote: Originally posted by corplinx If you had to pick a cult or sect that poses the largest threat to american or world society, who would you pick and why? Examples: Scientology Latter Day Saints Nation of Islam What do you think? I think the intolerant people, in general are the most serious problem facing any society.
Guest Posts: n/a

26th February 2003, 12:43 PM	#15
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	Re: Re: Which Cult or Sect is Most Dangerous? Quote: Originally posted by Whodini I think the intolerant people, in general are the most serious problem facing any society. Certainly that, and yes, intolerance is often independant of religion. But some religions, the way they are run nowadays, provide a fertile breeding ground for intolerance. I think the question is, which religion is most openly suceptible to intolerance. Scientology, for example, teaches it's members to be as intolerant of scientists and rational thinkers as possible. This is because if they werent, they'd leave scientology. There are many religions I think that were beneficial in their inception, but succumbed to corruption over the decades. I vote Scientology because it was NEVER intended to benefit anyone, other than a handful of it's own preists, living in the lap of luxury while their disciples suffer mental and physical hardship. I will admit that it is not the most influential cult, but it is certainly the most destructive to the individuals it does snare.
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	__________________ I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you, quantum mechanics!

26th February 2003, 12:47 PM	#16
hammegk Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 8,422	Secular-humanistic, Atheistic, communism has by far the highest body count, and holds the potential for similar destructiveness on a world-wide scale. US-UK-Canada-Australia are the core effective force counterbalancing the New World (communist dictatorship) Order the remainder of the world appears to so badly crave. The cults & sects mentioned so far will never have similar massive destructive capability, imnsho.
hammegk Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 8,422

26th February 2003, 12:49 PM	#17
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,373	Before we go getting all political here, I think we should address the "what is a cult" issue (yeah, I know it's been done before). I cannot classify fundamental Baptists or Moslems as cults, since they are both major branches of a major religion. Scientology is probably pretty safe to call a cult, but not Mormons (at least not any more). Al Qaeda for sure, and probably Nation of Islam. Most cults have a single charismatic leader. Also we have to ask if a group must be "dangerous" before being a cult?

26th February 2003, 12:58 PM	#18
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	Re: Which Cult or Sect is Most Dangerous? Quote: Originally posted by corplinx If you had to pick a cult or sect that poses the largest threat to american or world society, who would you pick and why? Examples: Scientology Latter Day Saints Nation of Islam What do you think? Far and away, the Brownies.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

26th February 2003, 01:00 PM	#20
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	A cult should be defined as a religion with non-divine origins. Yeah... that'll hold water in this forum... well, let's put it this way; a FULL cult is a religion created specifically to exploit people. The reason it's such a blurry line between Scientology and fundamental Christianity is because religion invariably requires faith and trust; in both God, and the human executors of the faith. And wherever unconditional faith exists, people can be easily exploited.
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	__________________ I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you, quantum mechanics!

26th February 2003, 01:20 PM	#21
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,373	Quote: Originally posted by Akots A cult should be defined as a religion with non-divine origins. Sorry Akots. I can't really buy this definition. Buddhism (at least large parts of it) have non-divine origins. I would hesitate to call it a cult. Perhaps B'hai too, but I honestly don't know enough about B'hai to say for sure.

26th February 2003, 01:27 PM	#22
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852	Fnord.
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852

26th February 2003, 01:57 PM	#23
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Funky Town (STL, MO) Posts: 23,428	How about a cult is a religious organization that harms its followers.

26th February 2003, 02:07 PM	#24
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	Quote: Originally posted by Tricky Sorry Akots. I can't really buy this definition. Buddhism (at least large parts of it) have non-divine origins. I would hesitate to call it a cult. Perhaps B'hai too, but I honestly don't know enough about B'hai to say for sure. Well, i can't keep quiet now, can i... The Bahá'í faith has what it believes to be divine origins. Founded by Bahá'u'lláh only a few decades ago, it holds it's leader as a "manifestation of God", and consider their teachings to be of divine origin. They have a rather unconventional viewpoint on their doctrines, which give guidelines and morals on just about every modern issue available. It is not an offshoot of islam, but bears some superficial resemblances, such as prayer, chastity before marriage, and abstinance from alcohol. The three most important teachings they maintain are: 1) Although God has many names and aspects, there is only one God, and no one name is any more appropriate than another. 2) Despite all physical, mental or social differences, all mankind is equal. No gender, age, or race is inherantly superior to any other, despite our social or political differences. 3) The major religions are sequential, with each religion's teachings tailored to a specific age of human development. It is from this last teaching that my previous defenition emerged; that many faiths are not truly supplied by a manifestation of God. To say that they are any less spiritually enriching to their followers would be false, and to say their prayers are ignored for this reason is extremely hippocritical of me. I didn't mean to imply that. I do submit that my first decleration was quite flawed... any form of faith that supports the betterment of mankind shouldn't be reffered to as a cult. I never said it would hold water. The proof is really in the pudding; the actions and behavior of the members itself, on both a global and community scale, should be the deciding factor as to wether the faith is destructive or constructive. Considering I do feel a certain pain when my faith is reffered to as a cult, i have no right to start tossing around a word myself. (And yes, dammit... I DID have to copy/paste the accents over Bahá'í and Bahá'u'lláh... i am not yet so enlightened as to be able to find the symbols on my keyboard at a whim. )
Akots Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 494	__________________ I can't drink POSSIBLE beers! I need ACTUAL beers! Damn you, quantum mechanics!

26th February 2003, 02:11 PM	#25
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Quote: Originally posted by Tricky Before we go getting all political here, I think we should address the "what is a cult" issue (yeah, I know it's been done before). That is why I included sects.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944

26th February 2003, 02:21 PM	#26
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,418	Quote: Originally posted by corplinx That is why I included sects. Well I'm all for sects! Oh, wait. Nevermind.
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,418	__________________ "The priests used to say that faith can move mountains, and nobody believed them. Today the scientists say that they can level mountains, and nobody doubts them." - Joseph Campbell We cannot defend freedom abroad by abandoning it at home. —Edward R. Murrow

26th February 2003, 02:55 PM	#27
Penrich Guest Posts: n/a	Here is a good definition of a cult (at least, I like it ).
Penrich Guest Posts: n/a

26th February 2003, 05:52 PM	#28
Guest Posts: n/a	Pseudo skeptics. Are part of this Forum. Thanks, S&S
Guest Posts: n/a

26th February 2003, 05:53 PM	#29
DanSTC Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Which Cult or Sect is Most Dangerous? Quote: Originally posted by Whodini I think the intolerant people, in general are the most serious problem facing any society. That includes people intolerent of atheists, right?
DanSTC Guest Posts: n/a

26th February 2003, 05:57 PM	#30
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Re: Which Cult or Sect is Most Dangerous? ---- Scientology, for example, teaches it's members to be as intolerant of scientists and rational thinkers as possible. ---- ---- ....Scientology because it was NEVER intended to benefit anyone, other than a handful of it's own preists, living in the lap of luxury while their disciples suffer mental and physical hardship. ---- Can you find Scientology literature where those things are listed? Name of source, date, and page #, please. Thanks.
Guest Posts: n/a

26th February 2003, 07:02 PM	#31
specious_reasons Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,124	Re: Re: Re: Re: Which Cult or Sect is Most Dangerous? Quote: Originally posted by Whodini Can you find Scientology literature where those things are listed? Name of source, date, and page #, please. Thanks. Kinda hard to do when Scientology sues to keep their "religion" from public scrutiny. Evidence of its bad practices abound on the internet. Why do you choose to defend this? It seems like you're doing this just to be contrary. On to the original topic: How do we define dangerous? There's a few ways: 1. Violence towards its members. 2. Violence to people outside the cult. 3. Psychological harm to its members. 4. Exterting undue influence on political systems. Anything else?
	__________________ ta- DAVE!!!

26th February 2003, 07:14 PM	#32
Beleth FAQ Creator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Not in a cave Posts: 4,134	Re: Re: Re: Which Cult or Sect is Most Dangerous? Quote: Originally posted by Akots There are many religions I think that were beneficial in their inception, but succumbed to corruption over the decades. I vote Scientology because it was NEVER intended to benefit anyone, other than a handful of it's own preists, living in the lap of luxury while their disciples suffer mental and physical hardship. I've always wondered about this part of the anti-Scientology argument. I mean, there are people that have gotten REALLY high up into the Scientology ranks before they got the sense knocked into them, right? I mean, Sea Org level people, if i remember correctly. And all they ever did was pay, pay, pay. How come nobody who ever defected from Scientology was ever in the "receive, receive, receive" level? Didn't anyone that high up ever have a crisis of conscience? Or maybe there is NO "receive, receive, receive" level. Where's all this incredible amount of money going? I'm not defending Scientology. It just seems like it's got an incredible income with absolutely no visible outgo.
	__________________ Administrator and Head Moderator, The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe Forum Big Fan, Stop Sylvia Browne I will come back only after the words "Hi, Nyarl!" are returned to the post http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...5&postcount=14 .

26th February 2003, 07:15 PM	#33
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,373	Quote: Originally posted by Akots Well, i can't keep quiet now, can i... Thanks for the info, Akots. I feel much better informed now. I find that I agree much with the philosophy of the Bahá'í faith, but not the mythology. Same thing for Paganism. Same thing, to some extent, for Christianity. I think that most religions are founded on good principles, but that humans corrupt those principles. If they could stick to the philosophy and forget the dogma, they would be much better off. Quote: Originally posted by Akots Considering I do feel a certain pain when my faith is reffered to as a cult, i have no right to start tossing around a word myself. I do not think that many people consider the Bahá'í to be a cult. My experience with Bahá'íans (or whatever you call them) is that they are them most gentle and peaceful of souls. They could not in any sense be called predatory. Heck, you practically have to tie them down and feed them sodium penathol to get them to talk about their religion. If you feel like starting a thread to discuss this, I would be very interested. P.S. Sorry to blow your cover.

26th February 2003, 07:41 PM	#34
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Re: Which Cult or Sect is Most Dangerous? Quote: Originally posted by DanSTC That includes people intolerent of atheists, right? Most definitely DanSTC.
Guest Posts: n/a

26th February 2003, 07:43 PM	#35
Questioninggeller Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,030	Quote: Originally posted by Upchurch From what I've read of them, I'd have to agree. Scientology is pure capitalism with little interest in helping its followers. Unless you are very rich, and are completely full of yourself... I can't see anyone be a part of that. Isn't is basic principles like forms of Satanism. What does science have to do iwht that belief... oh it convinces the morons that it is basic on "fact". Please... I wish people were smarter. But aren't all forms of religion harmfull in some way? BTW: Isn't John Travolta and Tom Cruise scientlogy believers?

26th February 2003, 08:39 PM	#36
Frank Newgent Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4,689	Quote: Originally posted by Ipecac Fnord. Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!
	__________________ Disturbances of the semantic reactions in connection with faulty education and ignorance must be considered as sub-microscopic colloidal lesions - Alfred O. Korzybski