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Old 23rd January 2010, 10:55 PM   #1
Marshmallow
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Joe Fisher - The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts

Anyone heard of this guy?

I found out about his story last year, but I didn't get to see the Skeptical Investigator documentary about him. It was done by an author who is supposedly a skeptic, so I'd like to know his explanation for Joe Fisher's experience and the state of his psyche.

For those of you who don't know who Joe Fisher was, this is from a website about Joe Fisher and the documentary about him by Robert J. Sawyer:

http://anybodythere.net/cgi-bin/para...num=1234029914

Quote:
Vision TV has a new series called "Supernatural Investigator". The website explains,

"Supernatural Investigator, a new documentary anthology series from VisionTV, takes a critical look at such otherworldly phenomena (as reincarnation, the AntiChrist, lost city of Atlantis, etc) in an attempt to separate fact from fiction.

Award-winning Canadian science fiction author Robert J. Sawyer (Mindscan, Hominids) hosts this 17-part series, which airs on Tuesdays, starting Jan. 27 at 10:30 pm ET/7:30 pm PT.

Produced for VisionTV by some of Canada’s leading independent production companies, the Supernatural Investigator documentaries bring rigorous real-life scrutiny to the murky world of paranormal phenomena. Each half-hour episode follows an expert investigator as he or she searches for the truth behind so-called supernatural happenings."

There is a two-part episode starting this Tuesday 10FEB09 investigating the death of Jor Fisher; I have covered Joe's fascinating story in my first post in the book forum. Here is an exerpt of my post, explaining how Joe's encounters with a medium's channeled entities may have caused him to commit suicide:

"Joe Fisher was a Canadian journalist and a fine writer with a strong interest and belief in the afterlife. His works included "Life Between Life", "The Case for Reincarnation", and "Predictions". He spent five years researching mediumship, channeling, and spiritualism for "Hungry Ghosts". The book is fascinating, not least because the author did not try to remain uninvolved but was drawn in deeper and deeper as he became enthralled with a channeled entity he believed was his soulmate. But - well, here is the brief notice on his publisher's website:

"Troubled by personal problems - as well as by the spirits he claimed to have angered in writing the Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts - Joe Fisher took his own life on May 9, 2001. That he would do so is all the more surprising considering what he had written earlier in The Case for Reincarnation: "As much as the suicidal personality feels able to escape the world by getting rid of the body, reincarnation's revolving door ensures that all hope (of escape) is short lived. Those who learn that they have killed themselves in past lives are quickly brought to the realization that suicide, far from being an answer to life's problems is (instead) the violent breaking of the lifeline. If the (suicide) could only realize the resulting intensification of difficulty which must enter the life to come, (suicide) would never be (attempted)."

Here is the publisher's blurb:

"Mediumship dates back to the Greek Oracles and beyond, but millennia later nobody yet knows for certain what transpires when a medium enters a deep trance. Today, the practice of channeling spirit guides through hypnotized mediums is hotly debated. This strange phenomenon is either dismissed as a dubious parlor trick, or regarded as a form of communication between this world and the next. Many view "the guides" as a source of love and wisdom - but are they?
For five years, best-selling author and journalist Joe Fisher painstakingly investigated the claims of channelers and the mysterious voices that speak through them. The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts is his gripping journey into a realm of darkness and deception.
The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts is not a skeptic's dismissal of channeling. Deeply convinced of the reality of reincarnation after writing The Case For Reincarnation and Life Between Life, Joe Fisher ventured into the world of mediumship with every expectation of writing the definitive book on how to contact spirit guides. But what he encountered, while remarkable in many ways, turned his emotions inside out and left him questioning the faith of New Age believers. This book is required reading for anyone who has ever visited, or considered visiting, a deep-trance channeler."

And this is from the Spotlight Ministries, U.K. website, from a review by Vincent McCann in 2004:

"During the course of his five year research, Fisher was lead to becoming a regular attender with a gathering of people interested in paranormal phenomena. It was here that he was introduced to a number of spirit entities, including his own spirit guide, a spirit that claimed to be a Greek lady who was his former lover in a past life they shared together. Fisher became more convinced of the truthfulness of the claims of his guide, and the other spirits, which spoke through the medium, especially since some of the information that was transmitted appeared to be uncannily accurate. However, as he continued to check the information he was provided with (geographical data, historical facts, dates, times, people, places, and events), in library archives, doubts eventually began to rise in his mind. It soon became more and more apparent that significant pieces of key information was either extremely conspicuous by its absence, or directly contradicted what he had been told.
Fisher's doubts grew more so when he measured the claims of his own guide against those of other popular mediums. Although the spirit's that spoke through the various mediums he met claimed to be in contact with his own spirit guide much of the information they provided contradicted.
As a result of all the conflicting information Fisher began to feel that these spirits were either, at best guessing, or at worst, deliberately lying.
After lengthy in depth research, and becoming more and more frustrated with the many contradictions, and blatant lies of the guides, Fisher challenges the spirit's with the findings his research has uncovered. The response of the guide's, however, was not to admit falsehood but rather to be slippery and evasive.
They were slippery and difficult to pin down, able to change the subject, when questioned about contradictions in facts. Although they often spoke of "the good" for humanity, love, and "forward development", it became apparent that their true motives were to control and live vicariously through physical beings - hence the name of the book "Hungry Ghosts"."



From the Vision TV site, her is a synopsis of the upcoming episodes:

“What Killed Joe Fisher – Part One: The Trap is Set”
Tuesday, Feb. 10, 10:30 p.m. ET / 7:30 p.m. PT
In the 1970s, Joe Fisher forged a reputation as one of Canada’s leading investigative reporters. But there was another side to him. The rebellious son of Christian fundamentalists, he grew increasingly enthralled by Eastern religions, eventually becoming a popular media expert on paranormal phenomena. While investigating the practice of “trance channeling,” he abandoned his professional skepticism, falling in love with a spirit entity named Filipa – an obsession that would lead him down a dangerous path. In the first chapter of this two-part episode, filmmaker Doug Williams investigates the strange case of Joe Fisher. Produced by Riddle Films Inc.


“What Killed Joe Fisher – Part Two: The Trap is Sprung”
Tuesday, Feb. 17, 10:30 p.m. ET / 7:30 p.m. PT
When Joe Fisher’s efforts to learn more about his spirit lover Filipa ended in failure, his life began to unravel. Convinced that he had unleashed psychic forces bent on vengeance, Fisher fled to rural Ontario – and it was there, on the rim of the Elora Gorge, that his demons, real or otherwise, may have finally caught up with him. In the conclusion of this two-part episode, filmmaker Doug Williams ponders the final fate of Joe Fisher.


Is there anyone who has either seen the documentory or has their own idea about what happened with Joe Fisher?

According to Wikipedia,
Quote:
He also came to the conclusion that some of the information that he was provided could not possibly have been collected by natural means, that is, the mediums were not frauds.

Last edited by Marshmallow; 23rd January 2010 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 24th January 2010, 01:11 AM   #2
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It looks like Joe saw the truth of the psychic entities and that truth is that the psychic entity is a slippery, cunning, possessor of bodies. Their lead in, just like at the fruit stall, is a fantastic offer it get's us in to buy more. As your quotes say "Fisher became more convinced of the truthfulness of the claims of his guide" ..but then when he sniffs deception"The response of the guide's, however, was not to admit falsehood but rather to be slippery and evasive.They were slippery and difficult to pin down, able to change the subject, when questioned about contradictions in facts."

My aim is to stay clear of psychic 'associations' of this form because one gets trapped in it. Look at Joan of Arc she was guided so far by spirits, a girl conquering countries, and then 'they' let her down. I have read a bit about these entities in the psyche from a man who describes what is going on so that one doesn't get trapped there and it sounds true to me. If you are interested this is the article

But this guy Joe did a worthwhile investigative job. And his death? Well the emotions are psychic so if he had opened the door or made an emotional bridge to this world, which starts just inside the body, then anything can enter and if I do not know what I am dealing with I can believe it is my self and really identify with it. Therein lies the dreadful truth. My self is a psychic entity.
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Old 24th January 2010, 05:58 AM   #3
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Mentally ill man hears voices and kills himself. Tragic, but not exactly difficult to explain.
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Old 24th January 2010, 07:36 AM   #4
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I read this book.

Joe Fisher was a New Age writer who got mixed up with a channeler up in Canada and pretty much fell in love with the idea of the entity who supposedly was being channeled through this woman as his spirit guide. He was a writer with a penchant for investigative research and had so much faith in this channeler, and so much emotional attachment to this supposed spirit guide, that he eventually decided to travel to Europe to investigate her claims, fully expecting them to be verified. Instead what he was found was that pretty much nothing she'd said panned out. Disappointed, he went back to Canada and confronted the channeler, who hedged and waffled, and he wound up leaving, disillusioned.

At that point he began to interview other of her followers, many of whom had been negatively affected to various degrees by being involved with her. He came to the conclusion that these were dark spirits, actively deceiving people.

He then began to travel and interview other notable channelers and found that they gave him information that contradicted what his own channeler had given him, and even each other. Again, he surmised that they were dealing with dark spirits who were actively deceiving people.

Obviously, the other possibility is that none of them were channeling any entities at all. That could just as easily explain why nothing they said panned out and why they all contradicted each other.

He did feel this channeler, and in particular the entity he'd fallen in love with as his spirit guide (he admitted this, and this was so extreme it destroyed his real-life relationship, IIRC) had given him certain personal information that was true, but as far as objective information that could be proved, such as all of the past life information in England and Europe that he attenpted to verify, none of that was able to be verified and most was proved by him to be false.

He didn't believe he was dealing with a hoax or a self-deluded channeler, though. He believed strongly that not only were they channeling but the entities they were channeling were dark, the whole New Age was vulnerable to this form of darkness and unaware of it, and in fact that he was being followed and attacked by these dark spirits years after he left. Eventually he committed suicide.

My thought is that perhaps he was so emotionally involved with this "spirit guide" that the idea of her not being real wasn't something he could really consider. Maybe, with that level of belief, it was just easier to assume a real entity that was evil and deceiving him than consider the idea that she never existed and that what he'd taken as true evidence of psychic ability might not have been as true as he'd thought.

So two possible explanations: 1) Joe Fisher had gotten himself mixed up with dark spirits, who eventually drove him to suicide. Or 2) Joe Fisher had been deceived into believing he had gotten himself involved with dark spirits, which drove him to suicide. Two different things, but both still really tragic.
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Old 24th January 2010, 07:45 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ExMinister View Post
the whole New Age was vulnerable to this form of darkness.
horrors
perhaps they should rename it "the new dark ages", it has the same scientific credibility as the old one

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Old 24th January 2010, 08:22 AM   #6
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One other interesting thing about Joe Fisher was that he considered himself skeptical, investigative and hard to deceive. All the same he'd written a book on reincarnation years prior and was into the New Age. Maybe this is a particularly dangerous combination - openness to New Age beliefs combined with a self-image of being intelligent and very hard to fool. At any rate, it seemed to give him an inordinate amount of confidence in his assessment of the situation.
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Old 24th January 2010, 08:37 AM   #7
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I have read both his books: I might have reviewed Hungry Ghosts here? If not i can. My understanding is that his death was actually related to financial problems, and unconnected with his work?

cj x
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Old 24th January 2010, 08:48 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by cj.23 View Post
I have read both his books: I might have reviewed Hungry Ghosts here? If not i can. My understanding is that his death was actually related to financial problems, and unconnected with his work?

cj x
I have read both books too, many years ago though. Do you remember where you found the information that it might have been related to his finances?

Everything I'd read suggested it was linked to depression or the other negative events that continued to plague him (attributed to persecution by the dark spirits), presumably even after the publication of Siren Call, though perhaps even having financial problems could have been attributed to that. I think that's all hearsay, though.
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Old 24th January 2010, 12:14 PM   #9
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@ the OP: are you "really creeped out" again?
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Old 24th January 2010, 09:24 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ExMinister View Post
I read this book.

Joe Fisher was a New Age writer who got mixed up with a channeler up in Canada and pretty much fell in love with the idea of the entity who supposedly was being channeled through this woman as his spirit guide. He was a writer with a penchant for investigative research and had so much faith in this channeler, and so much emotional attachment to this supposed spirit guide, that he eventually decided to travel to Europe to investigate her claims, fully expecting them to be verified. Instead what he was found was that pretty much nothing she'd said panned out. Disappointed, he went back to Canada and confronted the channeler, who hedged and waffled, and he wound up leaving, disillusioned.

At that point he began to interview other of her followers, many of whom had been negatively affected to various degrees by being involved with her. He came to the conclusion that these were dark spirits, actively deceiving people.

He then began to travel and interview other notable channelers and found that they gave him information that contradicted what his own channeler had given him, and even each other. Again, he surmised that they were dealing with dark spirits who were actively deceiving people.

Obviously, the other possibility is that none of them were channeling any entities at all. That could just as easily explain why nothing they said panned out and why they all contradicted each other.

He did feel this channeler, and in particular the entity he'd fallen in love with as his spirit guide (he admitted this, and this was so extreme it destroyed his real-life relationship, IIRC) had given him certain personal information that was true, but as far as objective information that could be proved, such as all of the past life information in England and Europe that he attenpted to verify, none of that was able to be verified and most was proved by him to be false.

He didn't believe he was dealing with a hoax or a self-deluded channeler, though. He believed strongly that not only were they channeling but the entities they were channeling were dark, the whole New Age was vulnerable to this form of darkness and unaware of it, and in fact that he was being followed and attacked by these dark spirits years after he left. Eventually he committed suicide.

My thought is that perhaps he was so emotionally involved with this "spirit guide" that the idea of her not being real wasn't something he could really consider. Maybe, with that level of belief, it was just easier to assume a real entity that was evil and deceiving him than consider the idea that she never existed and that what he'd taken as true evidence of psychic ability might not have been as true as he'd thought.

So two possible explanations: 1) Joe Fisher had gotten himself mixed up with dark spirits, who eventually drove him to suicide. Or 2) Joe Fisher had been deceived into believing he had gotten himself involved with dark spirits, which drove him to suicide. Two different things, but both still really tragic.
Thanks for the information, ExMinister. I appreciate your taking the time to post the story. Did he ever write about why he felt like he was being followed and attacked by spirits? Did he actually see or feel or hallucinate that they were following and attacking him? Did he just convince himself out of sheer paranoia?

Originally Posted by ExMinister View Post
One other interesting thing about Joe Fisher was that he considered himself skeptical, investigative and hard to deceive. All the same he'd written a book on reincarnation years prior and was into the New Age. Maybe this is a particularly dangerous combination - openness to New Age beliefs combined with a self-image of being intelligent and very hard to fool. At any rate, it seemed to give him an inordinate amount of confidence in his assessment of the situation.
If you look at this info it does not seem like much of a stretch to think that he could have taken in by cold reading as many others have. I have trouble believing that he was very skeptical of the medium, especially when he fell in love with a "channeled" entity before taking the time to research what she said.

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I View Post
@ the OP: are you "really creeped out" again?
Actually in this case I have personal reasons for having interest in this man. And to be honest I don't appreciate it if you are making fun of my anxiety disorder.
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Old 24th January 2010, 09:28 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by cj.23 View Post
I have read both his books: I might have reviewed Hungry Ghosts here? If not i can. My understanding is that his death was actually related to financial problems, and unconnected with his work?

cj x
I did a search for Joe Fisher on the forums and nothing came up. It would be really nice if you could do a review, if you wanted to. I would be interested to read about your thoughts.

Originally Posted by ExMinister View Post
I have read both books too, many years ago though. Do you remember where you found the information that it might have been related to his finances?

Everything I'd read suggested it was linked to depression or the other negative events that continued to plague him (attributed to persecution by the dark spirits), presumably even after the publication of Siren Call, though perhaps even having financial problems could have been attributed to that. I think that's all hearsay, though.
Interesting. I am considering tracking one or both of these books down myself.
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Old 25th January 2010, 04:34 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Marshmallow View Post
Actually in this case I have personal reasons for having interest in this man. And to be honest I don't appreciate it if you are making fun of my anxiety disorder.
If you have an anxiety disorder, I am very sorry and would never make fun of it. But you introduced every single one of your first threads here by saying that you were "really creeped out" by things that, upon the slightest calm consideration, could have been seen to be arrant woo.
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Old 25th January 2010, 06:25 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Marshmallow View Post
Thanks for the information, ExMinister. I appreciate your taking the time to post the story. Did he ever write about why he felt like he was being followed and attacked by spirits? Did he actually see or feel or hallucinate that they were following and attacking him? Did he just convince himself out of sheer paranoia?



If you look at this info it does not seem like much of a stretch to think that he could have taken in by cold reading as many others have. I have trouble believing that he was very skeptical of the medium, especially when he fell in love with a "channeled" entity before taking the time to research what she said.



Actually in this case I have personal reasons for having interest in this man. And to be honest I don't appreciate it if you are making fun of my anxiety disorder.
Hi Marshmallow -

It's been a few years since I read this book. I read it during a time when I thought the same thing was happening to me and had begun to be convinced it was because of my involvement in the New Age. I gave the book to someone else who believed the same thing.

At any rate, IIRC, some time after he left the channeler and the group, he experienced some serious health issues, specifically I think it was some kind of abdominal disorder that defied treatment. I don't remember the details but I think he'd become convinced that these spirits were able to manipulate people and events and destroy people's lives.

He included a section at the end of the book on how certain New Age practices could open people up to possession or attack by evil spirits. Once unwittingly allowed in by a person, they could wreak havoc in that person's life.

I don't recall that he ever saw or hallucinated anything, but I may just not remember.
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Last edited by ExMinister; 25th January 2010 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 27th January 2010, 11:13 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ExMinister View Post
One other interesting thing about Joe Fisher was that he considered himself skeptical, investigative and hard to deceive. All the same he'd written a book on reincarnation years prior and was into the New Age. Maybe this is a particularly dangerous combination - openness to New Age beliefs combined with a self-image of being intelligent and very hard to fool. At any rate, it seemed to give him an inordinate amount of confidence in his assessment of the situation.
Just like Arthur Conan Doyle as he thought he couldn't be fooled. Very sad.

Thank you for all the info you provided in your summary post. I feel so sorry for him. His entire life was shattered and then ended because of a strong belief in things that aren't real/proven to be real he was completely destroyed.

I hope others can learn from this and good will come of it.

About people "opening themselves up to possession, etc" I just remembered that on some generic ghost show on TV it ended with a man saying "I don't believe there are haunted houses, only haunted people." I think he's sooo right.

Last edited by Minarvia; 27th January 2010 at 11:16 AM. Reason: clarification
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