Has Ryan Mackey debunked Jim Hoffman

Luntoc · 28th January 2010, 11:55 AM

I don't know if the rest of you know but if you do and Mackey did indeed debunk Hoffman post the link so I can read it.

As we all know, Mackey wrote a 300 page critique on Griffin's chapter on the NIST report. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf

Hoffman, however, wrote a critique of Mackey's work.
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf

I know mackey debunked Kevin Ryan twice. but i don't know if Mackey wrote something debunking Hoffman. So did Mackey write something countering Hoffman cuase I couldn't find anything.

vinniem · 28th January 2010, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Luntoc

I don't know if the rest of you know but if you do and Mackey did indeed debunk Hoffman post the link so I can read it.

As we all know, Mackey wrote a 300 page critique on Griffin's chapter on the NIST report. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf

Hoffman, however, wrote a critique of Mackey's work.
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf

I know mackey debunked Kevin Ryan twice. but i don't know if Mackey wrote something debunking Hoffman. So did Mackey write something countering Hoffman cuase I couldn't find anything.

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Luntoc · 28th January 2010, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Pretty much everything is debunked. 10 minute procedures was debunked by a real researcher, Mike Williams. No plane hit the pentagon is debunked by the witnesses, black box, DNA evidence, passenger artifacts, charred bodies, and even common sense. Stewart's plane was intercepted in over an hour not 20 minutes. Cheney was never in charge of NORAD. The put options were placed because of a combination of falling stock prices and bad news. Top pentagon officials cancelled their flight plans to leave the building that was going to be targeted the next day. Not one single CD expert in the world agrees that the Twin Towers was a CD, not a single one. The lost trillions were announced several times before 9/11. Marvin Bush left Securacom before his brother was ever even elected. The hijackers are not alive is debunked by even common sense. The passengers are on the manifest. All those fantasies are debunked with even the least reseach. So don't spill out your nonsense.

T.A.M. · 28th January 2010, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Well I don't know about the rest, but you, as a forum member, certainly hasn't proven anything EXCEPT your ability to BS.

As for Mackey and Hoffman, what has Hoffman put out that is any different then the regurgitated crap that Gage and DRG put out? If there is anything unique to Hoffman, please, present it.

TAM

Drudgewire · 28th January 2010, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Muddying the truth movement's waters is like farting in a toxic waste dump.

DGM · 28th January 2010, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Luntoc

I don't know if the rest of you know but if you do and Mackey did indeed debunk Hoffman post the link so I can read it.

As we all know, Mackey wrote a 300 page critique on Griffin's chapter on the NIST report. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf

Hoffman, however, wrote a critique of Mackey's work.
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf

I know mackey debunked Kevin Ryan twice. but i don't know if Mackey wrote something debunking Hoffman. So did Mackey write something countering Hoffman cuase I couldn't find anything.

I can't for the life of me figure out why he would bother. Hoffman is self debunking, just read Mackeys white paper (the one he "critiqued").

twinstead · 28th January 2010, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Oh come on. Dude. The evidence that what you call the "official story" is the narrative that most closely fits ALL the available evidence of what happened that day is copious, compelling, and available in the public domain for all to see and scrutinize. If you think THAT is "muddying the waters" then you're not as bright as you think you are.

Don't agree with it, call it all faked, call it planted, call it whatever, but don't insult our intelligence (and yours) by claiming it doesn't exist.

sadhatter · 28th January 2010, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Where as the truth movement has....ummmm, uhhh..... well apparently they have cookies.

AJM8125 · 28th January 2010, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Drudgewire

Muddying the truth movement's waters is like farting in a toxic waste dump.

Except it was cut up and sold before anyone could smell it.

Drudgewire · 28th January 2010, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by sadhatter

Where as the truth movement has....ummmm, uhhh..... well apparently they have cookies.

I thought we were the dark side.

I mean, we definitely have cookies.

Fizzard · 28th January 2010, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Luntoc

So did Mackey write something countering Hoffman cuase I couldn't find anything.

Yes he did, and you linked to it... twice! See pages 234-281.

sadhatter · 28th January 2010, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Drudgewire

I thought we were the dark side.

I mean, we definitely have cookies.

No we are chaotic good, we have cigarettes.

DGM · 28th January 2010, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Drudgewire

I thought we were the dark side.

I mean, we definitely have cookies.

[derail] I just got my shipment of girl scout cookies today!

.

I make the local troop very happy every year [/derail]

Galileo · 28th January 2010, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Luntoc

Pretty much everything is debunked. 10 minute procedures was debunked by a real researcher, Mike Williams. No plane hit the pentagon is debunked by the witnesses, black box, DNA evidence, passenger artifacts, charred bodies, and even common sense. Stewart's plane was intercepted in over an hour not 20 minutes. Cheney was never in charge of NORAD. The put options were placed because of a combination of falling stock prices and bad news. Top pentagon officials cancelled their flight plans to leave the building that was going to be targeted the next day. Not one single CD expert in the world agrees that the Twin Towers was a CD, not a single one. The lost trillions were announced several times before 9/11. Marvin Bush left Securacom before his brother was ever even elected. The hijackers are not alive is debunked by even common sense. The passengers are on the manifest. All those fantasies are debunked with even the least reseach. So don't spill out your nonsense.

What you just said has been debunked 110 times.

twinstead · 28th January 2010, 01:36 PM

Just a little clue, my delightful little medieval friend; saying something doesn't make it true.

Sword_Of_Truth · 28th January 2010, 01:44 PM

Jim Hoffman debunks himself:

Quote:

Equipment Procurement

The following table lists the materials required for both Towers.
part quantity
20"x20"x3/4" ceiling tile with embedded thin-film explosive and 2-channel wireless micro-detonator 1,000,000
12"x12"x3/4" ceiling tile with embedded thin-film explosive and 2-channel wireless micro-detonator 800,000
10-lb nano-thermite kicker charge with 2-channel wireless detonator in fire-protective capsule disguised as fire extinguisher 100
5 gallon thermate coating compound 20
spray applicator with flexible snake hose and integrated borescope 2
2-channel wireless high-temperature igniter 100
20-channel 200W RF repeater with UPS 240

Two million exploding ceiling tiles? Seriously?

Furcifer · 28th January 2010, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Ever? Personally I don't know much of what happened here before I joined.

beachnut · 28th January 2010, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

And your evidence? Yes, you post off topic tripe and left your evidence where?

This is cool, you offer zero support for Hoffman who has thermite in the ceiling tiles with thousands of receivers to set off each ceiling tile. Self debunking tripe like you posts.

Luntoc · 28th January 2010, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Fizzard

Yes he did, and you linked to it... twice! See pages 234-281.

This is what I get for not reading Hoffman's page. But thanks for pointing that out.

MikeW · 28th January 2010, 03:02 PM

I think the difficulty here comes in defining the word "debunked". Truthers do this in two different ways.

When it comes to talking about the "official story", just about anything they come up with apparently qualifes as a solid debunking. So, for instance, in his book "The 9/11 Commission Report-Omissions and Distortions", David Ray Griffin states that the hijacker identifications have been "shown to be incorrect". Not just that doubts have been raised, not simply that there are questions to be answered: it's a definitive "shown to be incorrect".

When it comes to evaluating debunkings of truthers own statements, though, the standards mysteriously become far, far higher. So, for instance, on 911myths I can point to major problems with the "hijacker still alive" stories; I can point out, for instance, that the BBC's Waleed Al Shehri has a different name to the hijacker, a different age, a different face, a different job, a different family. However, it seems that unless I can personally provide DNA samples (or something similar) then none of this has any value at all.

So, "Has Ryan Mackey debunked Jim Hoffman"? Truthers will forever say "no", because they'll always demand more of their detractors than they do of themselves. But don't let it worry you, it's not like it matters what truthers think.

TobiasTheViking · 28th January 2010, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Luntoc

The put options were placed because of a combination of falling stock prices and bad news.

Uh, this is the one argument i've heard that i've never heard debunked.

Could you please provide a link or some more information on the put option debunking?

This is just out of interest, i do not think the put options mean there was a conspiracy. Just pure interest.

T.A.M. · 28th January 2010, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by TobiasTheViking

Uh, this is the one argument i've heard that i've never heard debunked.

Could you please provide a link or some more information on the put option debunking?

This is just out of interest, i do not think the put options mean there was a conspiracy. Just pure interest.

Well if we were to attempt to debunk it, we would also have to debunk/explain why the same stocks fell even more earlier that year...yet no terrorist attack occurred.

TAM

Luntoc · 28th January 2010, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by TobiasTheViking

Uh, this is the one argument i've heard that i've never heard debunked.

Could you please provide a link or some more information on the put option debunking?

This is just out of interest, i do not think the put options mean there was a conspiracy. Just pure interest.

See here for better answers than the conspiratorial ones.
http://www.911myths.com/html/put_options.html

And here: http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Put_Options

The airline industry wasn't doing so well prior to 9/11 in 2001 either.

The stock prices for Continental Airlines were also falling as United and American's were. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=CAL&...=10&f=2001&g=w

Continental earns a profit for the third quarter of 2001 but only because they received aid from the government. Otherwise they would've reported losses.
http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...-10-31-01.html

If planes from cotinental airlines were used then they would be getting all the attention rather than American and United. And it's likely that continental, as well as other businesses, also experienced high number of put options. Am I supposed to believe that out of all the businesses in the world that do business on wall street and other markets, the onlye companies experiencing spikes of put options were both airlines used on 9/11.

MikeW · 28th January 2010, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by TobiasTheViking

Uh, this is the one argument i've heard that i've never heard debunked.

Could you please provide a link or some more information on the put option debunking?

This is just out of interest, i do not think the put options mean there was a conspiracy. Just pure interest.

I did something on it at http://911myths.com/index.php/Put_Options

This isn't something I'd say was definitively debunked, but it does point out a few things that truthers rarely bother to mention. For instance, the best example they quote of foreknowledge is the purchase of American Airlines put options on Monday 10th of September. Suspicious timing, we're told. Except I don't think I've ever seen a truther directly list the bad news I discovered American Airlines had reported the previous Friday:

Quote:

12:48pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR NOTES 'POOR' ECONOMIC CONDITIONS, 'FALLING' DEMAND
12:49pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SAYS DEFERRING JET PURCHASES BEYOND FIRM ORDERS
12:47pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR'S AMERICAN RETIRING 5 MORE 727 AIRCRAFT EARLY
12:48pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR: AMERICAN TO RETIRE ENTIRE 727 FLEET BY END OF 2002
12:46pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SEES Q3 LOSS 'CONSIDERABLY LARGER' THAN Q2'S
12:47pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR ANTICIPATES 'SIGNIFICANT' LOSS IN Q4
12:49pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SAYS CUTTING 2001-02 CAPEX BY NEARLY $1.2 BLN
12:50pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMERICAN AIR FEELS SQUEEZE OF FUEL PRICES, LABOR COSTS
1:07pm 09/07/01 AMR warns of wider losses - William Spain
2:44pm 09/07/01 Analyst: Airline Stocks Face At Least Another Bad Quarter
2:51pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR DOWN 3.4% AT $30.08 FOLLOWING Q3 WARNING
4:04pm 09/07/01 Boeing stock rating cut over commercial growth - August Cole
Marketwatch.com
http://911myths.com/index.php/Put_Op...rican_Airlines

The reality is there was reason to believe the stock was in trouble. The economy was doing poorly anyway. A newsletter recommended on Sunday that people buy the puts, and that created a spike in sales on Monday. This doesn't prove there was nothing dodgy going on, but it does show there's a possible alternative explanation (which is probably why truthers keep quiet about it).

Jackanory · 28th January 2010, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

That is probably the most truthful and precise answer that you have given since being here. That would also include your previous visits.

Anyway as to your reference to 'debunking'. True - nobody here on JREF has had any real need to debunk anything. The events of 911 are a reality. It happened infront of a capacity crowd. No other event in the history of our time has been witnessed by as many people. Just because you have since been fooled to believe otherwise is your problem.

Edited by Tricky:

Edited for rule 12.

911 hasnt been debunked fool. Its the stupid about 911 that has.

TobiasTheViking · 28th January 2010, 03:46 PM

Thanks, more than enough, i'll read it on the morrow.

TobiasTheViking · 28th January 2010, 04:01 PM

Read it anyways now, even though i should be sleeping. I'm such a naughty boy.

Well, now i finally have the answer to that riddle. Thanks comrades.

ElMondoHummus · 28th January 2010, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by TobiasTheViking

Read it anyways now, even though i should be sleeping. I'm such a naughty boy.

Well, now i finally have the answer to that riddle. Thanks comrades.

Comrades? You're "TheViking" now, not "TheCommunist"!

-------

Anyway, for any new people or lurkers who might be reading this (since Tobias has been around long enough to know this on his own; he predates me, in fact): Yes, the whole truther process has always been the standard 'Make something suspicious about a real world event that is indeed a little (not a lot, merely a little) out of the ordinary, yet ignore all alternate, mundane, non-conspiratorial explanations for it'. Mike W, as always, had done a standout job in providing the context for this "issue". If you're new to 9/11 trutherism, his site (http://911myths.com) is excellent reading for this sort of thing. Yes, the stock move is unusual... until you see the context of the earlier day's news, which Mike W. is comfortable pointing out, but truthers never do. Unusual move? All right. But explained easily by factors that have zero to do with any conspiracy.

aggle-rithm · 28th January 2010, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever.

Not even the face of Satan in the smoke from the WTC fires?

So, you're saying you believe the evil NWO was somehow able to pull this off? Or perhaps you think Satan was involved?

aggle-rithm · 28th January 2010, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Jackanory

True - nobody here on JREF has had any real need to debunk anything. The events of 911 are a reality.

Yes...is there really a need to "debunk" the belief that NORAD both ordered its fighters to stand down AND had them shoot down flight 93?

Scott Sommers · 28th January 2010, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Thanks for pointing this out Truther Vinnie. That's why 911 Truth remains the most divisive issue in the nation. It tears at the very fabric of our people. The sound of 911 Truth can mobilize thousands of professionals from the construction industry, firefighting and law. It has damaged families, friends, and colleagues. Led by a band of brave citizens, 911 Truth is changing the very face of this nation.

Macgyver1968 · 28th January 2010, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

For some reason this comment made me think of this:

The Black Knight

It's just a scratch...I've had worse.

vinniem · 28th January 2010, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

Not even the face of Satan in the smoke from the WTC fires?

So, you're saying you believe the evil NWO was somehow able to pull this off? Or perhaps you think Satan was involved?

That all you got?

As far as I know, ir was only ever killtown who mentioned it.

Has anyone here ever debunked anything, seriously?

beachnut · 28th January 2010, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

That all you got?

As far as I know, ir was only ever killtown who mentioned it.

Has anyone here ever debunked anything, seriously?

just everything you presented, and all of 911 truth

Hoffman was debunked, unless you have something to support him; got some evidence? No you will post nothing but talk, and repeat that simple action. Where is the evidence for 911 truth?

Do you have some evidence for Hoffman's thermite ceiling tiles?

Redtail · 28th January 2010, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

That all you got?

As far as I know, ir was only ever killtown who mentioned it.

Has anyone here ever debunked anything, seriously?

Yes, have you forgotten all of that evidence you've hand waved away because it shows you to be wrong?

Hokulele · 28th January 2010, 09:19 PM

And, of course, there are the claims made by various CTists from different factions that are directly contradictory, hence auto-debunking.

The towers fell directly in their footprint!
The towers were blown to pieces with bits flung in all directions!
Sheeple!
Shill!

UNLoVedRebel · 28th January 2010, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Luntoc

I don't know if the rest of you know but if you do and Mackey did indeed debunk Hoffman post the link so I can read it.

As we all know, Mackey wrote a 300 page critique on Griffin's chapter on the NIST report. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf

Hoffman, however, wrote a critique of Mackey's work.
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf

I know mackey debunked Kevin Ryan twice. but i don't know if Mackey wrote something debunking Hoffman. So did Mackey write something countering Hoffman cuase I couldn't find anything.

Klimax · 29th January 2010, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

No. Responses were too normal for one.

TruthersLie · 29th January 2010, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Wow... you really sound like a former banned poster... go figure.

Please provide JUST ONE FACT. That is all I am asking for. JUST ONE SUPPORTABLE fact.

Why can't you do that?

Edx · 29th January 2010, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Wow that's just lost you all credibility ever.

Do you really think 911 Truth never made any errors?

28th January 2010, 11:55 AM	#1
Luntoc Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 86	Has Ryan Mackey debunked Jim Hoffman I don't know if the rest of you know but if you do and Mackey did indeed debunk Hoffman post the link so I can read it. As we all know, Mackey wrote a 300 page critique on Griffin's chapter on the NIST report. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf Hoffman, however, wrote a critique of Mackey's work. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf I know mackey debunked Kevin Ryan twice. but i don't know if Mackey wrote something debunking Hoffman. So did Mackey write something countering Hoffman cuase I couldn't find anything.
Luntoc Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 86

28th January 2010, 11:58 AM	#2
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308	Originally Posted by Luntoc I don't know if the rest of you know but if you do and Mackey did indeed debunk Hoffman post the link so I can read it. As we all know, Mackey wrote a 300 page critique on Griffin's chapter on the NIST report. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf Hoffman, however, wrote a critique of Mackey's work. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf I know mackey debunked Kevin Ryan twice. but i don't know if Mackey wrote something debunking Hoffman. So did Mackey write something countering Hoffman cuase I couldn't find anything. Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308

28th January 2010, 12:03 PM	#3
Luntoc Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 86	Originally Posted by vinniem Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking. Pretty much everything is debunked. 10 minute procedures was debunked by a real researcher, Mike Williams. No plane hit the pentagon is debunked by the witnesses, black box, DNA evidence, passenger artifacts, charred bodies, and even common sense. Stewart's plane was intercepted in over an hour not 20 minutes. Cheney was never in charge of NORAD. The put options were placed because of a combination of falling stock prices and bad news. Top pentagon officials cancelled their flight plans to leave the building that was going to be targeted the next day. Not one single CD expert in the world agrees that the Twin Towers was a CD, not a single one. The lost trillions were announced several times before 9/11. Marvin Bush left Securacom before his brother was ever even elected. The hijackers are not alive is debunked by even common sense. The passengers are on the manifest. All those fantasies are debunked with even the least reseach. So don't spill out your nonsense.
Luntoc Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 86

28th January 2010, 12:12 PM	#5
Drudgewire Critical Doofus Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9,434	Originally Posted by vinniem Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking. Muddying the truth movement's waters is like farting in a toxic waste dump.
	__________________ "You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc." -lapman describing every twoofer on the internet

28th January 2010, 12:41 PM	#6
DGM #4 Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 14,324	Originally Posted by Luntoc I don't know if the rest of you know but if you do and Mackey did indeed debunk Hoffman post the link so I can read it. As we all know, Mackey wrote a 300 page critique on Griffin's chapter on the NIST report. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf Hoffman, however, wrote a critique of Mackey's work. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mack...review_2_1.pdf I know mackey debunked Kevin Ryan twice. but i don't know if Mackey wrote something debunking Hoffman. So did Mackey write something countering Hoffman cuase I couldn't find anything. I can't for the life of me figure out why he would bother. Hoffman is self debunking, just read Mackeys white paper (the one he "critiqued").
	__________________ Join the team, Show us what your machine can do (or just contribute to a good cause)Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley Last edited by DGM; 28th January 2010 at 12:42 PM.

28th January 2010, 12:03 PM	#4
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	Originally Posted by vinniem Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking. Well I don't know about the rest, but you, as a forum member, certainly hasn't proven anything EXCEPT your ability to BS. As for Mackey and Hoffman, what has Hoffman put out that is any different then the regurgitated crap that Gage and DRG put out? If there is anything unique to Hoffman, please, present it. TAM

28th January 2010, 12:49 PM	#7
twinstead Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers Posts: 11,573	Originally Posted by vinniem Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking. Oh come on. Dude. The evidence that what you call the "official story" is the narrative that most closely fits ALL the available evidence of what happened that day is copious, compelling, and available in the public domain for all to see and scrutinize. If you think THAT is "muddying the waters" then you're not as bright as you think you are. Don't agree with it, call it all faked, call it planted, call it whatever, but don't insult our intelligence (and yours) by claiming it doesn't exist.
	__________________ You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison

28th January 2010, 12:54 PM	#8
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743	Originally Posted by vinniem Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking. Where as the truth movement has....ummmm, uhhh..... well apparently they have cookies.
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743

28th January 2010, 12:59 PM	#9
AJM8125 NWO Black Ops Tagger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: **** Creek, California Posts: 15,254	Originally Posted by Drudgewire Muddying the truth movement's waters is like farting in a toxic waste dump. Except it was cut up and sold before anyone could smell it.

28th January 2010, 01:00 PM	#10
Drudgewire Critical Doofus Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9,434	Originally Posted by sadhatter Where as the truth movement has....ummmm, uhhh..... well apparently they have cookies. I thought we were the dark side. I mean, we definitely have cookies.
	__________________ "You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc." -lapman describing every twoofer on the internet

28th January 2010, 01:09 PM	#11
Fizzard Student Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 27	Originally Posted by Luntoc So did Mackey write something countering Hoffman cuase I couldn't find anything. Yes he did, and you linked to it... twice! See pages 234-281.
Fizzard Student Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 27	Last edited by Fizzard; 28th January 2010 at 01:15 PM.

28th January 2010, 01:12 PM	#12
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743	Originally Posted by Drudgewire I thought we were the dark side. I mean, we definitely have cookies. No we are chaotic good, we have cigarettes.
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743

28th January 2010, 01:13 PM	#13
DGM #4 Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 14,324	Originally Posted by Drudgewire I thought we were the dark side. I mean, we definitely have cookies. [derail] I just got my shipment of girl scout cookies today! . I make the local troop very happy every year [/derail]
	__________________ Join the team, Show us what your machine can do (or just contribute to a good cause)Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley Last edited by DGM; 28th January 2010 at 01:15 PM.

28th January 2010, 01:24 PM	#14
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by Luntoc Pretty much everything is debunked. 10 minute procedures was debunked by a real researcher, Mike Williams. No plane hit the pentagon is debunked by the witnesses, black box, DNA evidence, passenger artifacts, charred bodies, and even common sense. Stewart's plane was intercepted in over an hour not 20 minutes. Cheney was never in charge of NORAD. The put options were placed because of a combination of falling stock prices and bad news. Top pentagon officials cancelled their flight plans to leave the building that was going to be targeted the next day. Not one single CD expert in the world agrees that the Twin Towers was a CD, not a single one. The lost trillions were announced several times before 9/11. Marvin Bush left Securacom before his brother was ever even elected. The hijackers are not alive is debunked by even common sense. The passengers are on the manifest. All those fantasies are debunked with even the least reseach. So don't spill out your nonsense. What you just said has been debunked 110 times.

28th January 2010, 01:36 PM	#15
twinstead Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers Posts: 11,573	Just a little clue, my delightful little medieval friend; saying something doesn't make it true.
	__________________ You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison

28th January 2010, 01:44 PM	#16
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,497	Jim Hoffman debunks himself: Quote: Equipment Procurement The following table lists the materials required for both Towers. part quantity 20"x20"x3/4" ceiling tile with embedded thin-film explosive and 2-channel wireless micro-detonator 1,000,000 12"x12"x3/4" ceiling tile with embedded thin-film explosive and 2-channel wireless micro-detonator 800,000 10-lb nano-thermite kicker charge with 2-channel wireless detonator in fire-protective capsule disguised as fire extinguisher 100 5 gallon thermate coating compound 20 spray applicator with flexible snake hose and integrated borescope 2 2-channel wireless high-temperature igniter 100 20-channel 200W RF repeater with UPS 240 Two million exploding ceiling tiles? Seriously?

28th January 2010, 01:45 PM	#17
Furcifer miscreant Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: hohm Posts: 13,379	Originally Posted by vinniem Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking. Ever? Personally I don't know much of what happened here before I joined.

28th January 2010, 01:47 PM	#18
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 19,903	Originally Posted by vinniem Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking. And your evidence? Yes, you post off topic tripe and left your evidence where? This is cool, you offer zero support for Hoffman who has thermite in the ceiling tiles with thousands of receivers to set off each ceiling tile. Self debunking tripe like you posts.

28th January 2010, 02:01 PM	#19
Luntoc Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 86	Originally Posted by Fizzard Yes he did, and you linked to it... twice! See pages 234-281. This is what I get for not reading Hoffman's page. But thanks for pointing that out.
Luntoc Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 86

28th January 2010, 03:02 PM	#20
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,911	I think the difficulty here comes in defining the word "debunked". Truthers do this in two different ways. When it comes to talking about the "official story", just about anything they come up with apparently qualifes as a solid debunking. So, for instance, in his book "The 9/11 Commission Report-Omissions and Distortions", David Ray Griffin states that the hijacker identifications have been "shown to be incorrect". Not just that doubts have been raised, not simply that there are questions to be answered: it's a definitive "shown to be incorrect". When it comes to evaluating debunkings of truthers own statements, though, the standards mysteriously become far, far higher. So, for instance, on 911myths I can point to major problems with the "hijacker still alive" stories; I can point out, for instance, that the BBC's Waleed Al Shehri has a different name to the hijacker, a different age, a different face, a different job, a different family. However, it seems that unless I can personally provide DNA samples (or something similar) then none of this has any value at all. So, "Has Ryan Mackey debunked Jim Hoffman"? Truthers will forever say "no", because they'll always demand more of their detractors than they do of themselves. But don't let it worry you, it's not like it matters what truthers think.
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,911

28th January 2010, 03:07 PM	#21
TobiasTheViking Resident Viking Autist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: With your mother Posts: 6,923	Originally Posted by Luntoc The put options were placed because of a combination of falling stock prices and bad news. Uh, this is the one argument i've heard that i've never heard debunked. Could you please provide a link or some more information on the put option debunking? This is just out of interest, i do not think the put options mean there was a conspiracy. Just pure interest.
	__________________ He pricked me with his prick that prick - NobbyNobbs Endearingly Obnoxious - Rebecca Watson

28th January 2010, 03:17 PM	#22
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	Originally Posted by TobiasTheViking Uh, this is the one argument i've heard that i've never heard debunked. Could you please provide a link or some more information on the put option debunking? This is just out of interest, i do not think the put options mean there was a conspiracy. Just pure interest. Well if we were to attempt to debunk it, we would also have to debunk/explain why the same stocks fell even more earlier that year...yet no terrorist attack occurred. TAM

28th January 2010, 03:35 PM	#23
Luntoc Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 86	Originally Posted by TobiasTheViking Uh, this is the one argument i've heard that i've never heard debunked. Could you please provide a link or some more information on the put option debunking? This is just out of interest, i do not think the put options mean there was a conspiracy. Just pure interest. See here for better answers than the conspiratorial ones. http://www.911myths.com/html/put_options.html And here: http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Put_Options The airline industry wasn't doing so well prior to 9/11 in 2001 either. The stock prices for Continental Airlines were also falling as United and American's were. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=CAL&...=10&f=2001&g=w Continental earns a profit for the third quarter of 2001 but only because they received aid from the government. Otherwise they would've reported losses. http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...-10-31-01.html If planes from cotinental airlines were used then they would be getting all the attention rather than American and United. And it's likely that continental, as well as other businesses, also experienced high number of put options. Am I supposed to believe that out of all the businesses in the world that do business on wall street and other markets, the onlye companies experiencing spikes of put options were both airlines used on 9/11.
Luntoc Scholar Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 86

28th January 2010, 03:46 PM	#26
TobiasTheViking Resident Viking Autist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: With your mother Posts: 6,923	Thanks, more than enough, i'll read it on the morrow.
	__________________ He pricked me with his prick that prick - NobbyNobbs Endearingly Obnoxious - Rebecca Watson

28th January 2010, 04:01 PM	#27
TobiasTheViking Resident Viking Autist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: With your mother Posts: 6,923	Read it anyways now, even though i should be sleeping. I'm such a naughty boy. Well, now i finally have the answer to that riddle. Thanks comrades.
	__________________ He pricked me with his prick that prick - NobbyNobbs Endearingly Obnoxious - Rebecca Watson

28th January 2010, 04:43 PM	#28
ElMondoHummus 0.25 short of being half-witted Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole Posts: 11,938	Originally Posted by TobiasTheViking Read it anyways now, even though i should be sleeping. I'm such a naughty boy. Well, now i finally have the answer to that riddle. Thanks comrades. Comrades? You're "TheViking" now, not "TheCommunist"! ------- Anyway, for any new people or lurkers who might be reading this (since Tobias has been around long enough to know this on his own; he predates me, in fact): Yes, the whole truther process has always been the standard 'Make something suspicious about a real world event that is indeed a little (not a lot, merely a little) out of the ordinary, yet ignore all alternate, mundane, non-conspiratorial explanations for it'. Mike W, as always, had done a standout job in providing the context for this "issue". If you're new to 9/11 trutherism, his site (http://911myths.com) is excellent reading for this sort of thing. Yes, the stock move is unusual... until you see the context of the earlier day's news, which Mike W. is comfortable pointing out, but truthers never do. Unusual move? All right. But explained easily by factors that have zero to do with any conspiracy.
	__________________ must take this very carefully....booze is wise men's drink..... -pillory "... I'm quite willing to have everyone use my rejection of the 9/11 conspiracy theory as a basis for assessing my intelligence, judgment, and trustworthiness" -Prof. Ann Althouse

28th January 2010, 04:58 PM	#29
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	Originally Posted by vinniem Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. Not even the face of Satan in the smoke from the WTC fires? So, you're saying you believe the evil NWO was somehow able to pull this off? Or perhaps you think Satan was involved?
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

28th January 2010, 05:05 PM	#30
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	Originally Posted by Jackanory True - nobody here on JREF has had any real need to debunk anything. The events of 911 are a reality. Yes...is there really a need to "debunk" the belief that NORAD both ordered its fighters to stand down AND had them shoot down flight 93?
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

28th January 2010, 05:23 PM	#31
Scott Sommers Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,642	Originally Posted by vinniem Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking. Thanks for pointing this out Truther Vinnie. That's why 911 Truth remains the most divisive issue in the nation. It tears at the very fabric of our people. The sound of 911 Truth can mobilize thousands of professionals from the construction industry, firefighting and law. It has damaged families, friends, and colleagues. Led by a band of brave citizens, 911 Truth is changing the very face of this nation.
	Last edited by Scott Sommers; 28th January 2010 at 05:25 PM.

28th January 2010, 05:36 PM	#32
Macgyver1968 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 3,608	Originally Posted by vinniem Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking. For some reason this comment made me think of this: The Black Knight It's just a scratch...I've had worse.
	__________________ "Fixin' crap that ain't broke."

28th January 2010, 09:06 PM	#33
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308	Originally Posted by aggle-rithm Not even the face of Satan in the smoke from the WTC fires? So, you're saying you believe the evil NWO was somehow able to pull this off? Or perhaps you think Satan was involved? That all you got? As far as I know, ir was only ever killtown who mentioned it. Has anyone here ever debunked anything, seriously?
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308

28th January 2010, 09:13 PM	#34
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 19,903	Originally Posted by vinniem That all you got? As far as I know, ir was only ever killtown who mentioned it. Has anyone here ever debunked anything, seriously? just everything you presented, and all of 911 truth Hoffman was debunked, unless you have something to support him; got some evidence? No you will post nothing but talk, and repeat that simple action. Where is the evidence for 911 truth? Do you have some evidence for Hoffman's thermite ceiling tiles?
	Last edited by beachnut; 28th January 2010 at 09:19 PM.

28th January 2010, 09:16 PM	#35
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,304	Originally Posted by vinniem That all you got? As far as I know, ir was only ever killtown who mentioned it. Has anyone here ever debunked anything, seriously? Yes, have you forgotten all of that evidence you've hand waved away because it shows you to be wrong?
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,304	__________________ AVENGERS!!!.. Turn off the dark!

28th January 2010, 09:19 PM	#36
Hokulele Official Nemesis Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Trying to decide whether to set defenses against an army, or against mole rats. Posts: 27,267	And, of course, there are the claims made by various CTists from different factions that are directly contradictory, hence auto-debunking. The towers fell directly in their footprint! The towers were blown to pieces with bits flung in all directions! Sheeple! Shill!
	__________________ Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" Some person: "Why did you shoot that?" Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" - Tragic Monkey