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skeptic griggsy · 6th February 2010, 09:44 AM

The presumption of naturalism means that not only are natural causes and explanations efficient and necessary, they are also primary and sufficient. This includes Hume's corollary about miracles. This neither begs the question nor sandbags theists but reflects the need for evidence as Einstein overcame Newton with evidence. These are causes and explanations are the sufficient reason, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz notwithstanding. Aquinas himself alluded to this presumption, which his five arguments fail to overcome.

The presumption of empiricism means that we rely on facts rather than on unsupportable intuitions, revelations and faith.
The presumption of humanism- covenant morality for humanity reveals itself @ a thread here on morality.
There remain the ones of rationalism and skepticism. They all rest on the presumption of honesty. Altogether they provide the means for that more abundant life that that dead Galileancult leader cannot provide!

The Atheist · 6th February 2010, 10:01 AM

Hell, call me impressed!

Now, if you could explain what the hell you're talking about - preferably without the bolding - we might make progress.

Why on earth would you presume honesty or agreement?

HumanityBlues · 7th February 2010, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Hell, call me impressed!

Now, if you could explain what the hell you're talking about - preferably without the bolding - we might make progress.

Why on earth would you presume honesty or agreement?

I second that. But you gotta love the emoticon at the end. Are there message board bots or something? Something about this doesn't smell right.

zooterkin · 7th February 2010, 02:32 AM

What do you mean by 'more abundant life'?

Trent Wray · 7th February 2010, 03:30 AM

Maybe it's like a puzzle ... and you need to rearrange the sentences into the correct order ...

amb · 7th February 2010, 04:01 AM

Live life to the fullest is the only thing more abundant life could possibly mean.

Beerina · 8th February 2010, 08:15 AM

Actually, I believe the modern development of Goedel sheds light on the issues of whether we can trust what we think of as "out there" as being actually out there. Turing tangentially touched this with his Turing Test, whose purpose, rather than being practical, was to point out that there's no way to know, externally, whether an answerer was conscious, or just exhibiting intelligence unconsciously, and, similarly, there's no way to know if what's "out there" actually resembles anything, or is just essentially a fraud, or a simulation.

skeptic griggsy · 20th April 2010, 03:58 PM

We each ourselves bear the responsibility to attain that more abundant life as neither such as rabbit feet or God can help us attain that.
Empiricism demands fact rather than unconfirmed intuitions, revelations, and such drivel.
Humanism demands that we treat each other in in intelligent and compassionate manner so as to feel at ease with others .How could one attain that life by being mean and people respond accordingly. Oh, sure a disturbed personality would be mean,but that's why therapists have plenty of work! Trickery states as much.
Naturalism demands that we use natural causes and explanations rather than use those of 'The Transcendental Temptation," those twin superstitions called the paranormal and -the supernatural.
Rationalism, as opposed to Continental Rationalism, demands that we use empiricism and -reason rather than occult methods.
Skepticism means : know how to avoid scams. Of course all depend on intellectual honesty!
Belz, your turn.

zooterkin · 21st April 2010, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by skeptic griggsy

Belz, your turn.

Are you picking forum members at random, as he didn't respond in this thread. (Oh, and it's "Belz...".)

H3LL · 21st April 2010, 12:33 AM

Maybe the writing was getting too small here:

http://lofi.forum.physorg.com/The-Pr...ism_25129.html

and skepticgriggsy thought he stood a chance of reading responses at the JREF.

6th February 2010, 09:44 AM	#1
skeptic griggsy Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Augusta,Ga. Posts: 215	The presumptions for that more abundant life! The presumption of naturalism means that not only are natural causes and explanations efficient and necessary, they are also primary and sufficient. This includes Hume's corollary about miracles. This neither begs the question nor sandbags theists but reflects the need for evidence as Einstein overcame Newton with evidence. These are causes and explanations are the sufficient reason, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz notwithstanding. Aquinas himself alluded to this presumption, which his five arguments fail to overcome. The presumption of empiricism means that we rely on facts rather than on unsupportable intuitions, revelations and faith. The presumption of humanism- covenant morality for humanity reveals itself @ a thread here on morality. There remain the ones of rationalism and skepticism. They all rest on the presumption of honesty. Altogether they provide the means for that more abundant life that that dead Galileancult leader cannot provide!

6th February 2010, 10:01 AM	#2
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Hell, call me impressed! Now, if you could explain what the hell you're talking about - preferably without the bolding - we might make progress. Why on earth would you presume honesty or agreement?
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

7th February 2010, 02:22 AM	#3
HumanityBlues Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: New York City Posts: 1,522	Originally Posted by The Atheist Hell, call me impressed! Now, if you could explain what the hell you're talking about - preferably without the bolding - we might make progress. Why on earth would you presume honesty or agreement? I second that. But you gotta love the emoticon at the end. Are there message board bots or something? Something about this doesn't smell right.
	__________________ Even if you hate the Knox case, you'll appreciate this example of confirmation bias. Taken down by the "impartial mods" because certain aviators kept clickiting clicking violation. Last edited by HumanityBlues; 7th February 2010 at 02:37 AM.

7th February 2010, 02:32 AM	#4
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 25,035	What do you mean by 'more abundant life'?
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

8th February 2010, 08:15 AM	#7
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Actually, I believe the modern development of Goedel sheds light on the issues of whether we can trust what we think of as "out there" as being actually out there. Turing tangentially touched this with his Turing Test, whose purpose, rather than being practical, was to point out that there's no way to know, externally, whether an answerer was conscious, or just exhibiting intelligence unconsciously, and, similarly, there's no way to know if what's "out there" actually resembles anything, or is just essentially a fraud, or a simulation.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

7th February 2010, 03:30 AM	#5
Trent Wray I Will Not Impregnate You Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 4,562	Maybe it's like a puzzle ... and you need to rearrange the sentences into the correct order ...

7th February 2010, 04:01 AM	#6
amb Guest Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Western Australia Posts: 21,408	Live life to the fullest is the only thing more abundant life could possibly mean.

20th April 2010, 03:58 PM	#8
skeptic griggsy Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Augusta,Ga. Posts: 215	We each ourselves bear the responsibility to attain that more abundant life as neither such as rabbit feet or God can help us attain that. Empiricism demands fact rather than unconfirmed intuitions, revelations, and such drivel. Humanism demands that we treat each other in in intelligent and compassionate manner so as to feel at ease with others .How could one attain that life by being mean and people respond accordingly. Oh, sure a disturbed personality would be mean,but that's why therapists have plenty of work! Trickery states as much. Naturalism demands that we use natural causes and explanations rather than use those of 'The Transcendental Temptation," those twin superstitions called the paranormal and -the supernatural. Rationalism, as opposed to Continental Rationalism, demands that we use empiricism and -reason rather than occult methods. Skepticism means : know how to avoid scams. Of course all depend on intellectual honesty! Belz, your turn.
	__________________ [i] " Life is it own validation and reward and ultimate meaning to which neither God nor the future state can further validate." ' Religion is mythiformaton." Fr. Griggs rests in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism. [/u][/" To know God is to know there is no God!"]

21st April 2010, 12:19 AM	#9
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 25,035	Originally Posted by skeptic griggsy Belz, your turn. Are you picking forum members at random, as he didn't respond in this thread. (Oh, and it's "Belz...".)
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

21st April 2010, 12:33 AM	#10
H3LL Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: (ləʊˈkeɪʃən) - n. 1. a site or position; situation. Posts: 4,976	Maybe the writing was getting too small here: http://lofi.forum.physorg.com/The-Pr...ism_25129.html and skepticgriggsy thought he stood a chance of reading responses at the JREF.
	__________________ "I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it". - PTerry Top 10 Reasons Why I Procrastinate: 1.