Plumbing from the gas chamber @ Dachau.

TSR · 11th February 2010, 10:41 AM

Hey, Saggy!

Over here, in an attempt to defend your lie about there not being a homicidal gas chamber @ Dachau, you said

Quote:

The hoax gas chamber at Dachau is a shower room.

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When challenged to:

Quote:

... point out where the drains and actual plumbing is, then?

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you replied

Quote:

You bet. Photos of the actual plumbing featured prominently in early holohoax lies.

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You ran away before actually producing these photos. And also seem to have forgotten the question of why the Nazis would put a shower in a building containing four disinfestations rooms? Why would a shower need two bin-like drawers leading to the exterior protected on the inside by a grating?

Here's your chance to address these points.
.

TSR · 11th February 2010, 04:15 PM

Bump for Saggy, so zie can find it more easily.

In support of zir thesis that the gas chamber @ Dachau was merely a shower room, Saggy offers an off topic post in another thread in which zie had been whining about others' off topic containing this link.

Once again, Saggy does not actually review zir own sources, since this chapter of this documentary very clearly calls the gas chamber what it is, but apparently has been pointed to ~ 05:57 -- 06:10 of this clip.

Is there *anyone* that thinks this shows a water valve and plumbing -- are that misinterprets the comment "...and another batch of victims screamed their lives out beyond the grill?"

Budly · 11th February 2010, 11:00 PM

I don't understand, but no one thinks there was a gassing extermination program at Dachau. Including prominent holocaust historians. And the allegation at one time is that Zyklon B was used, but Zyklon B doesn't travel through pipes. It is gas absorbed in chalky pellets. You pour the pellets into a room. No pipes.

Simon39759 · 12th February 2010, 02:06 AM

The Dachau gaz chambers were initially planned as part as an effort to fumigate clothing for lice control. By the time the building came under construction, though, people at other camps had already discovered how efficient Zyklon B was as a tool of extermination, so the Nazis apparently changed their plans a bit a designed one of the chamber for extermination purpose. It is actually constructed quite differently than the fumigation chambers, larger, with a heavy steel door and such, this lay to rest the denier claim that all gas chambers were for fumigation purposes, we can easily differentiate between the two types.

One of the reason that might have motivated the Nazis to adapt Dachau for a more exterminationist purpose was the evacuation of the Eastern camps in front of the Soviet's advance that was happening at the time, Dachau was receiving a large influx of prisoners for these camps and was expecting more. It was getting crowded and typhus epidemics were breaking out (which, in turn, accelerated the construction of the chambers building). It simply seems that, while building the chambers to try to fight the epidemic, the Nazis also decided to had some extermination chambers so that they would have the option to cut the problem at the base, the overcrowding, if need be.

As for the actual use of the murdering gas chambers, there is little documentation. The building came into service relatively late.
It is likely that they were used but certainly never to an extent comparable with that of the Aktion Reinhard camps...

Saggy · 12th February 2010, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Budly

I don't understand, but no one thinks there was a gassing extermination program at Dachau. Including prominent holocaust historians. And the allegation at one time is that Zyklon B was used, but Zyklon B doesn't travel through pipes. It is gas absorbed in chalky pellets. You pour the pellets into a room. No pipes.

You have correctly summarized the current state of affairs. However, at different times three different methods of getting the gas into the shower room have been 'documented' by the 'authorities'. One of those methods is that the gas was piped in through the shower pipes. A British propaganda film made shortly after the war shows how the pipes and valves were used to control the flow of gas into the room. Once you see the film, you'll know why it was never shown until it appeared on a FrontLine TV program. You can see it online now at .....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/camp/view/

This is a must see film.

There is a lot of info on the Dachau shower room and the various attempts to portray it as as 'homicidal gas chamber' at ....

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachau...ber/Index.html

One amusing note is that the 'authorities' are now so desperate to hide their lies that the room containing the pipes and valves, and the room beneath the shower room (it was also 'documented' that the gas came into the shower room through the drain !) are both closed to the public.

We might as well have a pic ..... this is not a picture of the door to the hoax gas chamber, but it was widely published at the end of the war as the door to the 'homicidal gas chamber' at Dachau, note the skull and crossbones and the warning 'Danger - Gas' .... LOL ... (note for the novice: it is the door to a fumigation room used to delouse clothing to prevent typhus)

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachau/GasChamber.jpg

Edited by LashL:

Removed hotlinked image.

dafydd · 12th February 2010, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Budly

I don't understand, but no one thinks there was a gassing extermination program at Dachau. Including prominent holocaust historians. And the allegation at one time is that Zyklon B was used, but Zyklon B doesn't travel through pipes. It is gas absorbed in chalky pellets. You pour the pellets into a room. No pipes.

I'm so happy to hear that there was no gassing program at the Dachau Holiday Camp.

commandlinegamer · 12th February 2010, 08:34 AM

I've maybe missed the point here, but is Saggy trying to argue the fact that the gas chamber at Dachau was a shower means the Holocaust never happened? How does he explain the other camps for which there is evidence that gassing did occur?

Belz... · 12th February 2010, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Saggy

One amusing note

That' a thing that pisses me off about conspiracy theorists. It's FUNNY to them.

I don't think it's funny.

garethdjb · 12th February 2010, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Budly

I don't understand, but no one thinks there was a gassing extermination program at Dachau. Including prominent holocaust historians. And the allegation at one time is that Zyklon B was used, but Zyklon B doesn't travel through pipes. It is gas absorbed in chalky pellets. You pour the pellets into a room. No pipes.

Good to see you are aware of the delivery method of Zyklon B. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that there was no extermination program at Dachau and therefore you conclude that Zyklon B wasn't used there. The inference, then, is that you are well aware that Zyklon B WAS used where there was an extermination program.

TSR · 12th February 2010, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Saggy

You have correctly summarized the current state of affairs. However, at different times three different methods of getting the gas into the shower room have been 'documented' by the 'authorities'.

.
Of course, Saggy will once again attempt to distract from the fact that zie will now have to run and find someone to give him this documentation, refuse to supply it in context, and then desperately try to distract from the matter when it turns out the *actual* "authorities" involved could not possibly have been authoritative on the matter, or were simply mistaken, which latter Saggy will insist proves mendacity...
.

Originally Posted by Saggy

One of those methods is that the gas was piped in through the shower pipes. A British propaganda film made shortly after the war shows how the pipes and valves were used to control the flow of gas into the room. Once you see the film, you'll know why it was never shown until it appeared on a FrontLine TV program. You can see it online now at .....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/camp/view/

.
No, it shows a single crank being used, with no way to know to what it was attached, and what is likely to be ductwork, unless Saggy wants to posit something other that the section I have highlighted from 5:57 -- 6:10.

Saggy still cannot support his claim that the plumbing to the showerheads existed, because none did.

Saggy does not even know enough about the matter to realize that HCN is lighter than air, and so any method which does not at some level release the gas at waist level at least is going to require some sort of positive ventilation to fill the room to the point where it could be breathed in. This is why the gas was released into the the room via two bins which opened to the outside -- a curious feature for a shower room.
.

Originally Posted by Saggy

This is a must see film.

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Indeed -- and you should watch it with the sound up, so you can hear the narrarator explicitly talk about "beyond the grate."
.

Originally Posted by Saggy

There is a lot of info on the Dachau shower room and the various attempts to portray it as as 'homicidal gas chamber' at ....

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachau...ber/Index.html

.
I especially recommend looking at para 6 on this page where it says

Quote:

On the left in the photo above, behind the recently-added white table, are the two bins on the outside wall through which Zyklon-B poison gas pellets could be poured into the gas chamber. The openings for the bins, which were formerly hidden behind a three-sided wooden screen that was attached to the wall, were centered on the inside wall of the gas chamber. A small rectangular hole between the two bins has been boarded up and there is no corresponding hole on the inside of the gas chamber.

.
Why would a shower room need these, Saggy? Can you find a *single* place on that site where it is said that this was a shower room, or which shows the connections to the shower heads?

Seriously -- when some denier tells you something is so, you should really do more than skim: the context usually destroys your cherry pick, assuming that the entire work isn't questionable to begin with. That way you won't appear quite so much the fool.
.

Originally Posted by Saggy

One amusing note is that the 'authorities' are now so desperate to hide their lies that the room containing the pipes and valves, and the room beneath the shower room (it was also 'documented' that the gas came into the shower room through the drain !) are both closed to the public.

.
No, they are not. Indeed, they are not on the "normal tour," but they are not closed. Go ahead, try to document this claim.
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Originally Posted by Saggy

We might as well have a pic ..... this is not a picture of the door to the hoax gas chamber, but it was widely published at the end of the war as the door to the 'homicidal gas chamber' at Dachau, note the skull and crossbones and the warning 'Danger - Gas' .... LOL ... (note for the novice: it is the door to a fumigation room used to delouse clothing to prevent typhus)

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachau/GasChamber.jpg

.
Just like your claim that there were "many articles" in the NYT during WWI discussing a holocaust, this "widely published" is based on nothing more than your pathological need that it be so.
.

TSR · 13th February 2010, 07:17 PM

bump for Saggy, since zie seems to have forgotten to respond when zie was on earlier...

Saggy · 13th February 2010, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by TSR

bump for Saggy, since zie seems to have forgotten to respond when zie was on earlier...

Just one thing to ad, the photograph of door to the hoax Dachau gas chamber above is shown on the USHMM web site with the caption "A soldier from the U.S. 7th Army examines the door to a gas chamber in the Dachau concentration camp. [Photograph #61985]". The holohoax lying never stops.

TSR · 13th February 2010, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Saggy

Just one thing to ad, the photograph of door to the hoax Dachau gas chamber above is shown on the USHMM web site with the caption "A soldier from the U.S. 7th Army examines the door to a gas chamber in the Dachau concentration camp. [Photograph #61985]". The holohoax lying never stops.

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And where does it say a *homicidal* gas chamber? Because they seem to make a distinction between *the* gas chamber and *a* gas chamber, as seen here vs. here

Seriously, dude: study your sources first. The only lies here are yours.

Did you find anywhere on scrapbookpages where it says the homicidal gas chamber was actually a shower?

Any idea why a shower room would need two bins opening to the outside?

Any luck on finding documentation that the showerheads were connected to anything having to do with water?

Any chance of you supporting your lie that this picture was "widely published" as being to *the* gas chamber, or that these rooms are closed to the public, or that "three different methods" were endorsed by "the authorities," or ...

And do please hurry with the post that repeats your lies about the Glynn letter: I've got "roger's" demolishing of that all lined up: since it appears you have nothing new to lie about, why not just point out that you've already been schooled on that matter, and any other you might bring up?
.

TSR · 14th February 2010, 07:32 AM

Bump for Saggy, who once again has forgotten that this thread exists....

Thunder · 14th February 2010, 12:36 PM

so, when the Nazis claimed that Estonia was "Judenrein", they were lying?

exaggerating?

dafydd · 14th February 2010, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Saggy

Just one thing to ad, the photograph of door to the hoax Dachau gas chamber above is shown on the USHMM web site with the caption "A soldier from the U.S. 7th Army examines the door to a gas chamber in the Dachau concentration camp. [Photograph #61985]". The holohoax lying never stops.

Holohoax,what a moronic term.

Saggy · 15th February 2010, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

Holohoax,what a moronic term.

A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary -

1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it

buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax.

In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax.

1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six".

2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines.

3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses.

TSR · 15th February 2010, 05:06 AM

Of course, Saggy doesn't even try to support any of these lies, any more than zie can address any of the other lies zie has told:

Did you find anywhere on scrapbookpages where it says the homicidal gas chamber was actually a shower?

Any idea why a shower room would need two bins opening to the outside?

Any luck on finding documentation that the showerheads were connected to anything having to do with water?

Any chance of you supporting your lie that this picture was "widely published" as being to *the* gas chamber, or that these rooms are closed to the public, or that "three different methods" were endorsed by "the authorities," or ...

dafydd · 15th February 2010, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by Saggy

A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary -

1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it

buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax.

In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax.

1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six".

2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines.

3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses.

It's still a moronic term only used by people sadly lacking in intelligence.

MaGZ · 15th February 2010, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

I'm so happy to hear that there was no gassing program at the Dachau Holiday Camp.

I assume you are referring to the Olympic-size swimming pool and orchestra.

McHrozni · 15th February 2010, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by Saggy

A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary -

1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it

buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax.

In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax.

1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six".

2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines.

3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses.

Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus?

How about nooses?

Unless Nazis thought these were highly effective remedies to cure typhus, you have some explaining to do. You may begin.

McHrozni

Edited by LashL:

Removed hotlinked images, and added NSFW tags.

MaGZ · 15th February 2010, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by parky76

so, when the Nazis claimed that Estonia was "Judenrein", they were lying?

exaggerating?

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1702737_n.jpg

It appears that map was made with a ball-point pen.

dafydd · 15th February 2010, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by McHrozni

Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus?

http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress....nitsa-jpg.jpeg

How about nooses?

http://www.holocaustresearchproject....0in%20Lodz.jpg

Unless Nazis thought these were highly effective remedies to cure typhus, you have some explaining to do. You may begin.

McHrozni

Well MaGZ? Care to comment?

dafydd · 15th February 2010, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

It appears that map was made with a ball-point pen.

So what,Holocaust denier maps are drawn in crayon.

MaGZ · 15th February 2010, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by McHrozni

Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus?

How about nooses?

Unless Nazis thought these were highly effective remedies to cure typhus, you have some explaining to do. You may begin.

McHrozni

They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals.

McHrozni · 15th February 2010, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals.

Yep, however this would mean Saggy et.al. were wrong all the time. Do you agree with that?

McHrozni

commandlinegamer · 15th February 2010, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by McHrozni

Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus?

How about nooses?

McHrozni

Well, as we all know, dead bodies don't spread disease.

Anyway, I've yet to see any evidence to back up Saggy's claims:

Quote:

A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary -

buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax

I prefer definition 4 from the same page:

Word used exclusively by dumb(Rule 10) pseudonazis and their nemesis, the Nazi bashers.

By all means cite sources, but it helps if they actually back up your argument. Definitions on their own mean nothing.

dafydd · 15th February 2010, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals.

Why were the master race representatives killing them then?

Simon39759 · 15th February 2010, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by McHrozni

Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus?

What dedication these Nazis had in trying t osave the Jews from thyphus.
Imagine, shooting all this lices individually one after the other... No wonder they lost the war, they didn't have any ammo left for the Soviets...

Originally Posted by MaGZ

It appears that map was made with a ball-point pen.

Originally Posted by dafydd

So what,Holocaust denier maps are drawn in crayon.

I believe that it is because the ball-point pen was invited after the war, I have seen deniers use the same 'argument' to disprove the Ann Frank diaries...
Diaries which must, however be original as some Nazi used them a few days ago to prove that only a few percent of Jews died in the camp... But I guess internal consistency is degenerated...

MaGZ · 15th February 2010, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Simon39759

What dedication these Nazis had in trying t osave the Jews from thyphus.
Imagine, shooting all this lices individually one after the other... No wonder they lost the war, they didn't have any ammo left for the Soviets...

I believe that it is because the ball-point pen was invited after the war, I have seen deniers use the same 'argument' to disprove the Ann Frank diaries...
Diaries which must, however be original as some Nazi used them a few days ago to prove that only a few percent of Jews died in the camp... But I guess internal consistency is degenerated...

At least you got the joke.

dafydd · 15th February 2010, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

At least you got the joke.

It was a joke? Don't give up your day job to go into stand-up.

Simon39759 · 15th February 2010, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

At least you got the joke.

Why, yes, the idea of a fifteen years old dying horribly after witnessing the painful agony of her sister is just plain hilarious...

fuelair · 15th February 2010, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Simon39759

What dedication these Nazis had in trying t osave the Jews from thyphus.
Imagine, shooting all this lices individually one after the other... No wonder they lost the war, they didn't have any ammo left for the Soviets......

Actually they likely assumed they could just bend over for the Russians like they had for each other...............

Belz... · 16th February 2010, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals.

Aside from the malnutrition and bruises, no doubt.

But, then, the Nazis LOVED the jews...

UNLoVedRebel · 16th February 2010, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Saggy

A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary -

1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it

buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax.

In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax.

1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six".

2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines.

3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses.

Hi Saggy. Just out of curiosity, are you from Wisconsin?

switchpoint · 16th February 2010, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

It's still a moronic term only used by people sadly lacking in intelligence.

I don't really want to get involved in a discussion about what I consider to be one of the most moronic and ugliest ideas in human history (denial of the Holocaust) but I remember as a young man walking through the gas chamber at Dachau, it was almost 30 years after the war and the place still smelled like death.

I think there is a very special place in Hell for Holocaust deniers and I would almost be willing to there myself just to watch them suffer.

dafydd · 17th February 2010, 09:55 AM

deleted

dafydd · 17th February 2010, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel

Hi Saggy. Just out of curiosity, are you from Wisconsin?

Why do you ask that? Does every native of Wisconsin's knuckles drag along the ground when they walk?

UNLoVedRebel · 17th February 2010, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

Why do you ask that? Does every native of Wisconsin's knuckles drag along the ground when they walk?

There's this douche bag from Wisconsin who calls himself Prothink. Saggy has a VERY SIMILAR writing style i.e. saying "holohoax" six times in a sentence, making the same logical fallacies, putting quotation marks as if it counters an argument, etc etc.

Check it out for yourself (take a shower when you're done though).

http://www.prothink.org/holohoax

carlitos · 17th February 2010, 03:32 PM

"Prothink" (Mike Delaney) is a 9/11 Truther too. Probably just another coincidence.

11th February 2010, 10:41 AM	#1
TSR Do you know what this notorious criminal did? Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,788	Plumbing from the gas chamber @ Dachau. Hey, Saggy! Over here, in an attempt to defend your lie about there not being a homicidal gas chamber @ Dachau, you said Quote: The hoax gas chamber at Dachau is a shower room. . When challenged to: Quote: ... point out where the drains and actual plumbing is, then? . you replied Quote: You bet. Photos of the actual plumbing featured prominently in early holohoax lies. . You ran away before actually producing these photos. And also seem to have forgotten the question of why the Nazis would put a shower in a building containing four disinfestations rooms? Why would a shower need two bin-like drawers leading to the exterior protected on the inside by a grating? Here's your chance to address these points. .
	__________________ My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is. . "My family is not my weakness, Max. It's my strength." Vince Faraday aka The Cape

11th February 2010, 04:15 PM	#2
TSR Do you know what this notorious criminal did? Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,788	Bump for Saggy, so zie can find it more easily. In support of zir thesis that the gas chamber @ Dachau was merely a shower room, Saggy offers an off topic post in another thread in which zie had been whining about others' off topic containing this link. Once again, Saggy does not actually review zir own sources, since this chapter of this documentary very clearly calls the gas chamber what it is, but apparently has been pointed to ~ 05:57 -- 06:10 of this clip. Is there anyone that thinks this shows a water valve and plumbing -- are that misinterprets the comment "...and another batch of victims screamed their lives out beyond the grill?"
	__________________ My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is. . "My family is not my weakness, Max. It's my strength." Vince Faraday aka The Cape

11th February 2010, 11:00 PM	#3
Budly Thinker Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 158	I don't understand, but no one thinks there was a gassing extermination program at Dachau. Including prominent holocaust historians. And the allegation at one time is that Zyklon B was used, but Zyklon B doesn't travel through pipes. It is gas absorbed in chalky pellets. You pour the pellets into a room. No pipes.
Budly Thinker Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 158

12th February 2010, 09:14 AM	#8
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,522	Originally Posted by Saggy One amusing note That' a thing that pisses me off about conspiracy theorists. It's FUNNY to them. I don't think it's funny.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za: "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey "Physical evidence must be observed and interpreted by witnesses which makes it subjective and subject to mistakes and to fraud." - Robert Prey

12th February 2010, 09:35 AM	#9
garethdjb Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 639	Originally Posted by Budly I don't understand, but no one thinks there was a gassing extermination program at Dachau. Including prominent holocaust historians. And the allegation at one time is that Zyklon B was used, but Zyklon B doesn't travel through pipes. It is gas absorbed in chalky pellets. You pour the pellets into a room. No pipes. Good to see you are aware of the delivery method of Zyklon B. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that there was no extermination program at Dachau and therefore you conclude that Zyklon B wasn't used there. The inference, then, is that you are well aware that Zyklon B WAS used where there was an extermination program.
garethdjb Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 639	__________________ " It's a cheerful philosophy and I've heard it from people before... they're all dead now though" - Sandy

12th February 2010, 02:06 AM	#4
Simon39759 Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,285	The Dachau gaz chambers were initially planned as part as an effort to fumigate clothing for lice control. By the time the building came under construction, though, people at other camps had already discovered how efficient Zyklon B was as a tool of extermination, so the Nazis apparently changed their plans a bit a designed one of the chamber for extermination purpose. It is actually constructed quite differently than the fumigation chambers, larger, with a heavy steel door and such, this lay to rest the denier claim that all gas chambers were for fumigation purposes, we can easily differentiate between the two types. One of the reason that might have motivated the Nazis to adapt Dachau for a more exterminationist purpose was the evacuation of the Eastern camps in front of the Soviet's advance that was happening at the time, Dachau was receiving a large influx of prisoners for these camps and was expecting more. It was getting crowded and typhus epidemics were breaking out (which, in turn, accelerated the construction of the chambers building). It simply seems that, while building the chambers to try to fight the epidemic, the Nazis also decided to had some extermination chambers so that they would have the option to cut the problem at the base, the overcrowding, if need be. As for the actual use of the murdering gas chambers, there is little documentation. The building came into service relatively late. It is likely that they were used but certainly never to an extent comparable with that of the Aktion Reinhard camps...

12th February 2010, 08:13 AM	#6
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,476	Originally Posted by Budly I don't understand, but no one thinks there was a gassing extermination program at Dachau. Including prominent holocaust historians. And the allegation at one time is that Zyklon B was used, but Zyklon B doesn't travel through pipes. It is gas absorbed in chalky pellets. You pour the pellets into a room. No pipes. I'm so happy to hear that there was no gassing program at the Dachau Holiday Camp.

12th February 2010, 08:34 AM	#7
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 5,903	I've maybe missed the point here, but is Saggy trying to argue the fact that the gas chamber at Dachau was a shower means the Holocaust never happened? How does he explain the other camps for which there is evidence that gassing did occur?

12th February 2010, 10:35 AM	#10
TSR Do you know what this notorious criminal did? Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,788	Originally Posted by Saggy You have correctly summarized the current state of affairs. However, at different times three different methods of getting the gas into the shower room have been 'documented' by the 'authorities'. . Of course, Saggy will once again attempt to distract from the fact that zie will now have to run and find someone to give him this documentation, refuse to supply it in context, and then desperately try to distract from the matter when it turns out the actual "authorities" involved could not possibly have been authoritative on the matter, or were simply mistaken, which latter Saggy will insist proves mendacity... . Originally Posted by Saggy One of those methods is that the gas was piped in through the shower pipes. A British propaganda film made shortly after the war shows how the pipes and valves were used to control the flow of gas into the room. Once you see the film, you'll know why it was never shown until it appeared on a FrontLine TV program. You can see it online now at ..... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/camp/view/ . No, it shows a single crank being used, with no way to know to what it was attached, and what is likely to be ductwork, unless Saggy wants to posit something other that the section I have highlighted from 5:57 -- 6:10. Saggy still cannot support his claim that the plumbing to the showerheads existed, because none did. Saggy does not even know enough about the matter to realize that HCN is lighter than air, and so any method which does not at some level release the gas at waist level at least is going to require some sort of positive ventilation to fill the room to the point where it could be breathed in. This is why the gas was released into the the room via two bins which opened to the outside -- a curious feature for a shower room. . Originally Posted by Saggy This is a must see film. . Indeed -- and you should watch it with the sound up, so you can hear the narrarator explicitly talk about "beyond the grate." . Originally Posted by Saggy There is a lot of info on the Dachau shower room and the various attempts to portray it as as 'homicidal gas chamber' at .... http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachau...ber/Index.html . I especially recommend looking at para 6 on this page where it says Quote: On the left in the photo above, behind the recently-added white table, are the two bins on the outside wall through which Zyklon-B poison gas pellets could be poured into the gas chamber. The openings for the bins, which were formerly hidden behind a three-sided wooden screen that was attached to the wall, were centered on the inside wall of the gas chamber. A small rectangular hole between the two bins has been boarded up and there is no corresponding hole on the inside of the gas chamber. . Why would a shower room need these, Saggy? Can you find a single place on that site where it is said that this was a shower room, or which shows the connections to the shower heads? Seriously -- when some denier tells you something is so, you should really do more than skim: the context usually destroys your cherry pick, assuming that the entire work isn't questionable to begin with. That way you won't appear quite so much the fool. . Originally Posted by Saggy One amusing note is that the 'authorities' are now so desperate to hide their lies that the room containing the pipes and valves, and the room beneath the shower room (it was also 'documented' that the gas came into the shower room through the drain !) are both closed to the public. . No, they are not. Indeed, they are not on the "normal tour," but they are not closed. Go ahead, try to document this claim. . Originally Posted by Saggy We might as well have a pic ..... this is not a picture of the door to the hoax gas chamber, but it was widely published at the end of the war as the door to the 'homicidal gas chamber' at Dachau, note the skull and crossbones and the warning 'Danger - Gas' .... LOL ... (note for the novice: it is the door to a fumigation room used to delouse clothing to prevent typhus) http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachau/GasChamber.jpg . Just like your claim that there were "many articles" in the NYT during WWI discussing a holocaust, this "widely published" is based on nothing more than your pathological need that it be so. .
	__________________ My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is. . "My family is not my weakness, Max. It's my strength." Vince Faraday aka The Cape

13th February 2010, 07:17 PM	#11
TSR Do you know what this notorious criminal did? Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,788	bump for Saggy, since zie seems to have forgotten to respond when zie was on earlier...
	__________________ My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is. . "My family is not my weakness, Max. It's my strength." Vince Faraday aka The Cape

13th February 2010, 07:34 PM	#12
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,383	Originally Posted by TSR bump for Saggy, since zie seems to have forgotten to respond when zie was on earlier... Just one thing to ad, the photograph of door to the hoax Dachau gas chamber above is shown on the USHMM web site with the caption "A soldier from the U.S. 7th Army examines the door to a gas chamber in the Dachau concentration camp. [Photograph #61985]". The holohoax lying never stops.
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,383	Last edited by Saggy; 13th February 2010 at 07:35 PM.

13th February 2010, 07:59 PM	#13
TSR Do you know what this notorious criminal did? Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,788	Originally Posted by Saggy Just one thing to ad, the photograph of door to the hoax Dachau gas chamber above is shown on the USHMM web site with the caption "A soldier from the U.S. 7th Army examines the door to a gas chamber in the Dachau concentration camp. [Photograph #61985]". The holohoax lying never stops. . And where does it say a homicidal gas chamber? Because they seem to make a distinction between the gas chamber and a gas chamber, as seen here vs. here Seriously, dude: study your sources first. The only lies here are yours. Did you find anywhere on scrapbookpages where it says the homicidal gas chamber was actually a shower? Any idea why a shower room would need two bins opening to the outside? Any luck on finding documentation that the showerheads were connected to anything having to do with water? Any chance of you supporting your lie that this picture was "widely published" as being to the gas chamber, or that these rooms are closed to the public, or that "three different methods" were endorsed by "the authorities," or ... And do please hurry with the post that repeats your lies about the Glynn letter: I've got "roger's" demolishing of that all lined up: since it appears you have nothing new to lie about, why not just point out that you've already been schooled on that matter, and any other you might bring up? .
	__________________ My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is. . "My family is not my weakness, Max. It's my strength." Vince Faraday aka The Cape Last edited by TSR; 13th February 2010 at 08:01 PM.

14th February 2010, 07:32 AM	#14
TSR Do you know what this notorious criminal did? Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,788	Bump for Saggy, who once again has forgotten that this thread exists....
	__________________ My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is. . "My family is not my weakness, Max. It's my strength." Vince Faraday aka The Cape

14th February 2010, 12:36 PM	#15
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	so, when the Nazis claimed that Estonia was "Judenrein", they were lying? exaggerating?
	Last edited by Thunder; 14th February 2010 at 12:40 PM.

14th February 2010, 11:29 PM	#16
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,476	Originally Posted by Saggy Just one thing to ad, the photograph of door to the hoax Dachau gas chamber above is shown on the USHMM web site with the caption "A soldier from the U.S. 7th Army examines the door to a gas chamber in the Dachau concentration camp. [Photograph #61985]". The holohoax lying never stops. Holohoax,what a moronic term.

15th February 2010, 04:48 AM	#17
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,383	Originally Posted by dafydd Holohoax,what a moronic term. A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary - 1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax. In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax. 1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six". 2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines. 3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses.
Saggy Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,383	Last edited by Saggy; 15th February 2010 at 04:52 AM.

15th February 2010, 05:06 AM	#18
TSR Do you know what this notorious criminal did? Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,788	Of course, Saggy doesn't even try to support any of these lies, any more than zie can address any of the other lies zie has told: Did you find anywhere on scrapbookpages where it says the homicidal gas chamber was actually a shower? Any idea why a shower room would need two bins opening to the outside? Any luck on finding documentation that the showerheads were connected to anything having to do with water? Any chance of you supporting your lie that this picture was "widely published" as being to the gas chamber, or that these rooms are closed to the public, or that "three different methods" were endorsed by "the authorities," or ...
	__________________ My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is. . "My family is not my weakness, Max. It's my strength." Vince Faraday aka The Cape

15th February 2010, 05:17 AM	#19
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,476	Originally Posted by Saggy A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary - 1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax. In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax. 1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six". 2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines. 3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses. It's still a moronic term only used by people sadly lacking in intelligence.

15th February 2010, 05:42 AM	#20
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Originally Posted by dafydd I'm so happy to hear that there was no gassing program at the Dachau Holiday Camp. I assume you are referring to the Olympic-size swimming pool and orchestra.
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

15th February 2010, 05:46 AM	#22
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Originally Posted by parky76 so, when the Nazis claimed that Estonia was "Judenrein", they were lying? exaggerating? http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1702737_n.jpg It appears that map was made with a ball-point pen.
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

15th February 2010, 05:53 AM	#23
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,476	Originally Posted by McHrozni Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus? http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress....nitsa-jpg.jpeg How about nooses? http://www.holocaustresearchproject....0in%20Lodz.jpg Unless Nazis thought these were highly effective remedies to cure typhus, you have some explaining to do. You may begin. McHrozni Well MaGZ? Care to comment?

15th February 2010, 05:54 AM	#24
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,476	Originally Posted by MaGZ It appears that map was made with a ball-point pen. So what,Holocaust denier maps are drawn in crayon.

15th February 2010, 05:57 AM	#25
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Originally Posted by McHrozni Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus? http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress....nitsa-jpg.jpeg How about nooses? http://www.holocaustresearchproject....0in%20Lodz.jpg Unless Nazis thought these were highly effective remedies to cure typhus, you have some explaining to do. You may begin. McHrozni They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals.
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Last edited by LashL; 12th April 2010 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Edited quoted links/tags

15th February 2010, 06:06 AM	#26
McHrozni Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,566	Originally Posted by MaGZ They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals. Yep, however this would mean Saggy et.al. were wrong all the time. Do you agree with that? McHrozni
McHrozni Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,566

15th February 2010, 06:08 AM	#27
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 5,903	Originally Posted by McHrozni Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus? How about nooses? McHrozni Well, as we all know, dead bodies don't spread disease. Anyway, I've yet to see any evidence to back up Saggy's claims: Quote: A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary - buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax I prefer definition 4 from the same page: Word used exclusively by dumb(Rule 10) pseudonazis and their nemesis, the Nazi bashers. By all means cite sources, but it helps if they actually back up your argument. Definitions on their own mean nothing.

15th February 2010, 06:17 AM	#28
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,476	Originally Posted by MaGZ They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals. Why were the master race representatives killing them then?

15th February 2010, 06:20 AM	#29
Simon39759 Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,285	Originally Posted by McHrozni Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus? http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress....nitsa-jpg.jpeg What dedication these Nazis had in trying t osave the Jews from thyphus. Imagine, shooting all this lices individually one after the other... No wonder they lost the war, they didn't have any ammo left for the Soviets... Originally Posted by MaGZ It appears that map was made with a ball-point pen. Originally Posted by dafydd So what,Holocaust denier maps are drawn in crayon. I believe that it is because the ball-point pen was invited after the war, I have seen deniers use the same 'argument' to disprove the Ann Frank diaries... Diaries which must, however be original as some Nazi used them a few days ago to prove that only a few percent of Jews died in the camp... But I guess internal consistency is degenerated...
	Last edited by LashL; 12th April 2010 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Edited quote and tags.

15th February 2010, 06:22 AM	#30
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Originally Posted by Simon39759 What dedication these Nazis had in trying t osave the Jews from thyphus. Imagine, shooting all this lices individually one after the other... No wonder they lost the war, they didn't have any ammo left for the Soviets... I believe that it is because the ball-point pen was invited after the war, I have seen deniers use the same 'argument' to disprove the Ann Frank diaries... Diaries which must, however be original as some Nazi used them a few days ago to prove that only a few percent of Jews died in the camp... But I guess internal consistency is degenerated... At least you got the joke.
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

15th February 2010, 06:45 AM	#31
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,476	Originally Posted by MaGZ At least you got the joke. It was a joke? Don't give up your day job to go into stand-up.

15th February 2010, 02:42 PM	#32
Simon39759 Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,285	Originally Posted by MaGZ At least you got the joke. Why, yes, the idea of a fifteen years old dying horribly after witnessing the painful agony of her sister is just plain hilarious...

15th February 2010, 02:58 PM	#33
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,955	Originally Posted by Simon39759 What dedication these Nazis had in trying t osave the Jews from thyphus. Imagine, shooting all this lices individually one after the other... No wonder they lost the war, they didn't have any ammo left for the Soviets...... Actually they likely assumed they could just bend over for the Russians like they had for each other...............
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,955	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

16th February 2010, 04:38 AM	#34
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,522	Originally Posted by MaGZ They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals. Aside from the malnutrition and bruises, no doubt. But, then, the Nazis LOVED the jews...
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za: "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey "Physical evidence must be observed and interpreted by witnesses which makes it subjective and subject to mistakes and to fraud." - Robert Prey

16th February 2010, 01:45 PM	#35
UNLoVedRebel Hard Knocks Doctorate Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: School of Hard Knocks Posts: 5,507	Originally Posted by Saggy A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary - 1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax. In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax. 1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six". 2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines. 3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses. Hi Saggy. Just out of curiosity, are you from Wisconsin?
	__________________ "All the Officialiers here typically have rancid alien avatars or else some kind of violent military-type avatar. Once again affirming my contention that 9/11 Officialiers are the most violent, murderous, group of people in the United States. Both statistically confirmed, but also anecdotally affirmed in almost every case of active pro-Officialers." - FloydGoethe

16th February 2010, 02:32 PM	#36
switchpoint Thinker Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 142	Originally Posted by dafydd It's still a moronic term only used by people sadly lacking in intelligence. I don't really want to get involved in a discussion about what I consider to be one of the most moronic and ugliest ideas in human history (denial of the Holocaust) but I remember as a young man walking through the gas chamber at Dachau, it was almost 30 years after the war and the place still smelled like death. I think there is a very special place in Hell for Holocaust deniers and I would almost be willing to there myself just to watch them suffer.
switchpoint Thinker Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 142

17th February 2010, 09:55 AM	#37
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,476	deleted
	Last edited by dafydd; 17th February 2010 at 09:59 AM.