American Taliban Captured

Roadtoad · 7th March 2010, 01:32 PM

Quote:

KARACHI, Pakistan – The American-born spokesman for al-Qaida has been arrested by Pakistani intelligence officers in the southern city of Karachi, two officers and a government official said Sunday, the same day Adam Gadahn appeared in a video urging U.S. Muslims to attack their own country.
The arrest of Gadahn is a major victory in the U.S.-led battle against al-Qaida and will be taken as a sign that Pakistan, criticized in the past for being an untrustworthy ally, is cooperating more fully with Washington. It follows the recent detentions of several Afghan Taliban commanders in Karachi, including the movement's No. 2 commander.

Gadahn has appeared in more than half a dozen al-Qaida videos, taunting and threatening the West and calling for its destruction. A U.S. court charged Gadahn with treason in 2006, making him the first American to face such a charge in more than 50 years.

Okay, I'm all for his capture, but I am very uneasy about this yoyo being charged with Treason. His actions may have been treasonous, but this makes him a martyr, and that's the last thing we need.

The Central Scrutinizer · 7th March 2010, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Roadtoad

They got him.

Okay, I'm all for his capture, but I am very uneasy about this yoyo being charged with Treason. His actions may have been treasonous, but this makes him a martyr, and that's the last thing we need.

What would you charge him with?

rwguinn · 7th March 2010, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

What would you charge him with?

If publicly urging attacks on your own country, publicly supporting people who want to attack your own country, and providing moral support for such people is not treason, then 1. nothing is, or 2. you're Jane Fonda

The Central Scrutinizer · 7th March 2010, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

If publicly urging attacks on your own country, publicly supporting people who want to attack your own country, and providing moral support for such people is not treason, then 1. nothing is, or 2. you're Jane Fonda

Did Jane Fonda call for attacks on America?

geni · 7th March 2010, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

If publicly urging attacks on your own country, publicly supporting people who want to attack your own country, and providing moral support for such people is not treason, then 1. nothing is, or 2. you're Jane Fonda

Treason is the kind of charge you don't want to encorage goverments to get too comfortable about using.

Skeptical Greg · 7th March 2010, 02:29 PM

Is there any reason to believe that is the case here ?

dafydd · 7th March 2010, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Did Jane Fonda call for attacks on America?

As far as I can remember,no.

ravdin · 7th March 2010, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Roadtoad

Okay, I'm all for his capture, but I am very uneasy about this yoyo being charged with Treason. His actions may have been treasonous, but this makes him a martyr, and that's the last thing we need.

I don't know the legal definition of a "traitor", so I'm also not sure if Gadahn should be charged as such. If he was in the military, FBI, CIA, or any other government branch I could see it. But AFAIK he's never been entrusted with any responsibility by the American government. Labeling this clown as a traitor makes him seem much more important than he really is.

Skeptical Greg · 7th March 2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:

I don't know the legal definition of a "traitor",

In the U.S."

Quote:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

WIKI is your friend ..

What should we charge him with if not treason ?
Wearing a silly hat ?

rwguinn · 7th March 2010, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by geni

Treason is the kind of charge you don't want to encorage goverments to get too comfortable about using.

The worlod ends tomorrow, because I agree with you there.

rwguinn · 7th March 2010, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Did Jane Fonda call for attacks on America?

I used "and" in my post because the idiot in question did all 3, any one of which qualifies. calling for attacks is not required-see below

Originally Posted by dafydd

As far as I can remember,no.

Not required-see below

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

In the U.S."

Quote:

Quote:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

WIKI is your friend ..

What should we charge him with if not treason ?
Wearing a silly hat ?

Roadtoad · 7th March 2010, 02:54 PM

Geni pretty much answered it for me. No, his silly hat simply made him look silly, as did is asinine outbursts, and while he did provide material support for Al Quaeda, charging him with treason seems to assign him greater authority than he has ever held. He's more assclown than anything else.

My thought would be that if he's to be tried for treason, commute the sentence to life, and leave him someplace like Marion Penitentiary to rot for the remainder of his existence, forgotten by as many as possible.

Skeptical Greg · 7th March 2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

.....leave him someplace like Marion Penitentiary to rot for the remainder of his existence, forgotten by as many as possible.

You forgot the part about
" ....periodically publish pictures of him wearing the latest from Victoria's Secret ... "

Roadtoad · 7th March 2010, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

You forgot the part about
" ....periodically publish pictures of him wearing the latest from Victoria's Secret ... "

Damn. I just KNEW I'd forgotten something.

(You're one sick individual, you know that? I like that.)

shuize · 7th March 2010, 04:27 PM

If he's willing to cough up intel on his Al Queda buddies, I say give him 20 years without parole like they did with John Walker Lindh. Otherwise, shove him up against a wall and shoot him in Pakistan and save everyone the trouble of a media circus.

Roadtoad · 7th March 2010, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by shuize

If he's willing to cough up intel on his Al Queda buddies, I say give him 20 years without parole like they did with John Walker Lindh. Otherwise, shove him up against a wall and shoot him in Pakistan and save everyone the trouble of a media circus.

I agree with the sentiment, but how would that prevent a media circus? Consider what's happened to Che Guevara over the years: He's a franchise industry, in spite of the fact that he was directly responsible for the deaths of many of Fidel Castro's political opponents. Consider further that in that part of the world, shooting him is regarded as a heroic departure.

Consider the alternative: Lock him away and forget him. You lock out the bulk of the media, show him for the whiny little **** he is, and once he's in prison, you say as little as possible about him. You might release the menu for the night once in a while, (Pork roast with mashed potatoes and gravy, for example), but beyond that, after about five years, he is reduced to nothing. He becomes a nullity, more worthless by the day. Eventually, even his Jewish Grandfather would likely forget he ever darkened his door, which in that man's case, might be a blessing for his miserable grandson's monumental disloyalty to both his family and his country.

rwguinn · 7th March 2010, 05:40 PM

oops...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...html?tag=stack

Quote:

Now, CBS News' Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad writes that earlier reports the detained individual was Gadahn proved false. According to a Pakistan security official who spoke with CBS News on condition of anonymity, the arrested individual is in fact "a Taliban militant leader who is known as Abu Yahya."

The official said evidence compiled from an interrogation of the suspect and information exchanged with U.S. officials verified the man's identify.

Roadtoad · 7th March 2010, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

oops...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...html?tag=stack

Big one. Too bad, though. It would have been nice to lock his sorry @$$ up.

Puppycow · 7th March 2010, 10:32 PM

It seems they did catch an American Taliban, but a different one.

Regarding whether Adam Gadahn's actions qualify as treason, hell yes!

It's a textbook definition of the word.

Roadtoad · 7th March 2010, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

It seems they did catch an American Taliban, but a different one.

Regarding whether Adam Gadahn's actions qualify as treason, hell yes!

It's a textbook definition of the word.

Link for the story.

Puppycow · 7th March 2010, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by geni

Treason is the kind of charge you don't want to encorage goverments to get too comfortable about using.

I think you are correct. I wouldn't want it used against Jane Fonda for example. And the US hadn't charged anyone with treason in 50 years. So I don't think one can say they are overusing it.

Quote:

Gadahn, the first American to face treason charges in more than 50 years, has appeared in more than half a dozen al-Qaida videos, taunting the West and calling for its destruction. The video that surfaced Sunday showed him urging American Muslims to attack their own country.

He has been on the FBI's most wanted list since 2004 and there is a $1 million reward for information leading to his arrest. He was charged with treason in 2006 and faces the death penalty if convicted. He was also charged with two counts of providing material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization.

Bill Thompson · 7th March 2010, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Roadtoad

They got him.

"Two Pakistani officers and a government official said Sunday... "

Maybe they have not. It could be any gringo. They all look the same to them. I know from some experience.

Roadtoad · 7th March 2010, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

"Two Pakistani officers and a government official said Sunday... "

Maybe they have not. It could be any gringo. They all look the same to them. I know from some experience.

Perhaps. Right now, it appears they have an American. Frankly, I would just as soon see him brought back here and locked away, forgotten. Too bad that Johnny Lindh will eventually be released.

Bill Thompson · 7th March 2010, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Roadtoad

Perhaps. Right now, it appears they have an American. Frankly, I would just as soon see him brought back here and locked away, forgotten. Too bad that Johnny Lindh will eventually be released.

I would prefer to see him stay in Pakistan and let their justice system deal with him. We would be way too soft on him, I think.

BaaBaa · 7th March 2010, 11:31 PM

I thought this thread was about this:
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/04/texas-taliban/
"Christian Hate Group ‘Repent Amarillo’ Terrorizes Texas Town, Harassing Gays, Liberals, And Other ‘Sinners’"

Roadtoad · 7th March 2010, 11:33 PM

Covered in another thread, but thanks for the reminder.

GreNME · 8th March 2010, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

What would you charge him with?

Originally Posted by rwguinn

If publicly urging attacks on your own country, publicly supporting people who want to attack your own country, and providing moral support for such people is not treason, then 1. nothing is, or 2. you're Jane Fonda

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

What should we charge him with if not treason ?
Wearing a silly hat ?

Originally Posted by Puppycow

It seems they did catch an American Taliban, but a different one.

Regarding whether Adam Gadahn's actions qualify as treason, hell yes!

It's a textbook definition of the word.

Should John Walker Lindh have been tried for treason?

Undesired Walrus · 8th March 2010, 06:08 AM

There is a big difference between AQ and the Taliban. This man is AQ.

Undesired Walrus · 8th March 2010, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson

I would prefer to see him stay in Pakistan and let their justice system deal with him. We would be way too soft on him, I think.

Would you 'prefer' to have their justice system in the US?

Matthew Best · 8th March 2010, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Gadahn, the first American to face treason charges in more than 50 years, has appeared in more than half a dozen al-Qaida videos, taunting the West and calling for its destruction. The video that surfaced Sunday showed him urging American Muslims to attack their own country.

He has been on the FBI's most wanted list since 2004 and there is a $1 million reward for information leading to his arrest. He was charged with treason in 2006 and faces the death penalty if convicted. He was also charged with two counts of providing material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization.

Blimey! And I'd never even heard of him before, or seen a single one of these videos.

Maybe I should pay more attention.

The Central Scrutinizer · 8th March 2010, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

It seems they did catch an American Taliban, but a different one.

Yes. We actually caught the American Idol Taliban.

Alferd_Packer · 8th March 2010, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

So, unless you have two witnesses to an over tact, you are out of luck charging someone with treason. I'm not sure making a video fals under that category as it may be protected by the first amendment,

ravdin · 8th March 2010, 08:29 AM

Update: the American militant who was picked up is not Gadahn.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_pakistan_al_qaida_arrest

drkitten · 8th March 2010, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer

So, unless you have two witnesses to an over tact, you are out of luck charging someone with treason. I'm not sure making a video fals under that category as it may be protected by the first amendment,

The video itself is treasonous; two witnesses can easily testify to the existence of the video.

GreNME · 8th March 2010, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

There is a big difference between AQ and the Taliban. This man is AQ.

Oh, do explain. Or by "big difference" do you mean "AQ flew planes into buildings, Taliban only pointed and laughed (and housed and fed and protected etc)" as the basic distinguishing factor? I'm trying to figure out why Lindh, who was captured fighting US troops (though apparently not 'technically' so) should be considered any different just because of which fundie club his name gets attached to.

Beerina · 8th March 2010, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Did Jane Fonda call for attacks on America?

As far as I can remember,no.

Potato, potahto. How would you classify posing for a picture in an anti-aircraft gun with a helmet on, smiling, as if you were shooting down, oh, I don't know, take a guess...

geni · 8th March 2010, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Blimey! And I'd never even heard of him before, or seen a single one of these videos.

Maybe I should pay more attention.

Eh only reason I know of his existence is he is where wikipedia got it's Mullah Dadullah pics from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadullah

TraneWreck · 8th March 2010, 11:05 AM

Well, we can add "treason" to the list that includes "terrorism" and "torture" as words that the hysterical right has tossed about with such reckless abandon that they no longer have any constructive meaning (perhaps they can be salvaged in a legal context).

Somehow the Ft. Hood guy is a terrorist but the IRS kamikaze attack isn't.

Jane Fonda and all liberals are treasonous (http://www.amazon.com/Treason-Libera.../dp/1400050308), but it's cool to circumvent long standing national and international law as long as you're legitimately pissing you pants over scary bearded men in caves. The Yoo memos tell us that it isn't torture unless it feels like your organs are failing, at least you can kind of argue that if you misread a statute about medicare...

Words, who needs em?

drkitten · 8th March 2010, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by TraneWreck

Well, we can add "treason" to the list that includes "terrorism" and "torture" as words that the hysterical right has tossed about with such reckless abandon that they no longer have any constructive meaning (perhaps they can be salvaged in a legal context).

I think this is somewhat over the top.

No, scratch that. I think this is ludicrously over the top.

Treason has a well-established legal definition that explicitly includes giving aid and comfort to the enemy, and it's not at all unreasonable to say that making PR videos for someone is a form of aid.

TraneWreck · 8th March 2010, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by drkitten

Treason has a well-established legal definition that explicitly includes giving aid and comfort to the enemy, and it's not at all unreasonable to say that making PR videos for someone is a form of aid.

Torture had a well-established legal definition with actual prosecutions of people engaged in the exact behavior that became de facto permissible.

Edit: and by the way, I agree with you that if the great white hope is ever actually captured, he should be charged with treason. Of course then we'd actually have to have a trial...

7th March 2010, 01:32 PM	#1
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	American Taliban Captured They got him. Quote: KARACHI, Pakistan – The American-born spokesman for al-Qaida has been arrested by Pakistani intelligence officers in the southern city of Karachi, two officers and a government official said Sunday, the same day Adam Gadahn appeared in a video urging U.S. Muslims to attack their own country. The arrest of Gadahn is a major victory in the U.S.-led battle against al-Qaida and will be taken as a sign that Pakistan, criticized in the past for being an untrustworthy ally, is cooperating more fully with Washington. It follows the recent detentions of several Afghan Taliban commanders in Karachi, including the movement's No. 2 commander. Gadahn has appeared in more than half a dozen al-Qaida videos, taunting and threatening the West and calling for its destruction. A U.S. court charged Gadahn with treason in 2006, making him the first American to face such a charge in more than 50 years. Okay, I'm all for his capture, but I am very uneasy about this yoyo being charged with Treason. His actions may have been treasonous, but this makes him a martyr, and that's the last thing we need.

7th March 2010, 01:51 PM	#2
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,266	Originally Posted by Roadtoad They got him. Okay, I'm all for his capture, but I am very uneasy about this yoyo being charged with Treason. His actions may have been treasonous, but this makes him a martyr, and that's the last thing we need. What would you charge him with?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

7th March 2010, 02:07 PM	#3
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,426	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer What would you charge him with? If publicly urging attacks on your own country, publicly supporting people who want to attack your own country, and providing moral support for such people is not treason, then 1. nothing is, or 2. you're Jane Fonda
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

7th March 2010, 02:10 PM	#4
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,266	Originally Posted by rwguinn If publicly urging attacks on your own country, publicly supporting people who want to attack your own country, and providing moral support for such people is not treason, then 1. nothing is, or 2. you're Jane Fonda Did Jane Fonda call for attacks on America?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

7th March 2010, 02:29 PM	#6
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past 'Resume Speed' Posts: 12,873	Is there any reason to believe that is the case here ?
	__________________ " Somewhere between Jesus dying on the cross, and a giant bunny hiding eggs,there seems to be a gap in information. " Stan - Southpark Prove your computer is not a wimp ! Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

7th March 2010, 02:24 PM	#5
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,557	Originally Posted by rwguinn If publicly urging attacks on your own country, publicly supporting people who want to attack your own country, and providing moral support for such people is not treason, then 1. nothing is, or 2. you're Jane Fonda Treason is the kind of charge you don't want to encorage goverments to get too comfortable about using.

7th March 2010, 02:33 PM	#7
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,448	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Did Jane Fonda call for attacks on America? As far as I can remember,no.

7th March 2010, 02:34 PM	#8
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 3,556	Originally Posted by Roadtoad Okay, I'm all for his capture, but I am very uneasy about this yoyo being charged with Treason. His actions may have been treasonous, but this makes him a martyr, and that's the last thing we need. I don't know the legal definition of a "traitor", so I'm also not sure if Gadahn should be charged as such. If he was in the military, FBI, CIA, or any other government branch I could see it. But AFAIK he's never been entrusted with any responsibility by the American government. Labeling this clown as a traitor makes him seem much more important than he really is.
	__________________ If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak. -Jayne Cobb Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

7th March 2010, 02:39 PM	#9
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past 'Resume Speed' Posts: 12,873	Quote: I don't know the legal definition of a "traitor", In the U.S." Quote: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. WIKI is your friend .. What should we charge him with if not treason ? Wearing a silly hat ?
	__________________ " Somewhere between Jesus dying on the cross, and a giant bunny hiding eggs,there seems to be a gap in information. " Stan - Southpark Prove your computer is not a wimp ! Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Last edited by Skeptical Greg; 7th March 2010 at 02:41 PM.

7th March 2010, 02:40 PM	#10
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,426	Originally Posted by geni Treason is the kind of charge you don't want to encorage goverments to get too comfortable about using. The worlod ends tomorrow, because I agree with you there.
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

7th March 2010, 02:44 PM	#11
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,426	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Did Jane Fonda call for attacks on America? I used "and" in my post because the idiot in question did all 3, any one of which qualifies. calling for attacks is not required-see below Originally Posted by dafydd As far as I can remember,no. Not required-see below Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg In the U.S." Quote: Quote: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. WIKI is your friend .. What should we charge him with if not treason ? Wearing a silly hat ?
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

7th March 2010, 02:54 PM	#12
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Geni pretty much answered it for me. No, his silly hat simply made him look silly, as did is asinine outbursts, and while he did provide material support for Al Quaeda, charging him with treason seems to assign him greater authority than he has ever held. He's more assclown than anything else. My thought would be that if he's to be tried for treason, commute the sentence to life, and leave him someplace like Marion Penitentiary to rot for the remainder of his existence, forgotten by as many as possible.

7th March 2010, 03:21 PM	#13
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past 'Resume Speed' Posts: 12,873	Quote: .....leave him someplace like Marion Penitentiary to rot for the remainder of his existence, forgotten by as many as possible. You forgot the part about " ....periodically publish pictures of him wearing the latest from Victoria's Secret ... "
	__________________ " Somewhere between Jesus dying on the cross, and a giant bunny hiding eggs,there seems to be a gap in information. " Stan - Southpark Prove your computer is not a wimp ! Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

7th March 2010, 04:09 PM	#14
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg You forgot the part about " ....periodically publish pictures of him wearing the latest from Victoria's Secret ... " Damn. I just KNEW I'd forgotten something. (You're one sick individual, you know that? I like that.)

7th March 2010, 04:27 PM	#15
shuize Master Poster Join Date: May 2002 Location: Japan Posts: 2,308	If he's willing to cough up intel on his Al Queda buddies, I say give him 20 years without parole like they did with John Walker Lindh. Otherwise, shove him up against a wall and shoot him in Pakistan and save everyone the trouble of a media circus.

7th March 2010, 04:35 PM	#16
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by shuize If he's willing to cough up intel on his Al Queda buddies, I say give him 20 years without parole like they did with John Walker Lindh. Otherwise, shove him up against a wall and shoot him in Pakistan and save everyone the trouble of a media circus. I agree with the sentiment, but how would that prevent a media circus? Consider what's happened to Che Guevara over the years: He's a franchise industry, in spite of the fact that he was directly responsible for the deaths of many of Fidel Castro's political opponents. Consider further that in that part of the world, shooting him is regarded as a heroic departure. Consider the alternative: Lock him away and forget him. You lock out the bulk of the media, show him for the whiny little **** he is, and once he's in prison, you say as little as possible about him. You might release the menu for the night once in a while, (Pork roast with mashed potatoes and gravy, for example), but beyond that, after about five years, he is reduced to nothing. He becomes a nullity, more worthless by the day. Eventually, even his Jewish Grandfather would likely forget he ever darkened his door, which in that man's case, might be a blessing for his miserable grandson's monumental disloyalty to both his family and his country.

7th March 2010, 05:40 PM	#17
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,426	oops... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...html?tag=stack Quote: Now, CBS News' Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad writes that earlier reports the detained individual was Gadahn proved false. According to a Pakistan security official who spoke with CBS News on condition of anonymity, the arrested individual is in fact "a Taliban militant leader who is known as Abu Yahya." The official said evidence compiled from an interrogation of the suspect and information exchanged with U.S. officials verified the man's identify.
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

7th March 2010, 05:45 PM	#18
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by rwguinn oops... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...html?tag=stack Big one. Too bad, though. It would have been nice to lock his sorry @$$ up.

7th March 2010, 10:32 PM	#19
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,740	It seems they did catch an American Taliban, but a different one. Regarding whether Adam Gadahn's actions qualify as treason, hell yes! It's a textbook definition of the word.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

7th March 2010, 11:10 PM	#20
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by Puppycow It seems they did catch an American Taliban, but a different one. Regarding whether Adam Gadahn's actions qualify as treason, hell yes! It's a textbook definition of the word. Link for the story.

7th March 2010, 11:18 PM	#21
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,740	Originally Posted by geni Treason is the kind of charge you don't want to encorage goverments to get too comfortable about using. I think you are correct. I wouldn't want it used against Jane Fonda for example. And the US hadn't charged anyone with treason in 50 years. So I don't think one can say they are overusing it. Quote: Gadahn, the first American to face treason charges in more than 50 years, has appeared in more than half a dozen al-Qaida videos, taunting the West and calling for its destruction. The video that surfaced Sunday showed him urging American Muslims to attack their own country. He has been on the FBI's most wanted list since 2004 and there is a $1 million reward for information leading to his arrest. He was charged with treason in 2006 and faces the death penalty if convicted. He was also charged with two counts of providing material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

7th March 2010, 11:18 PM	#22
Bill Thompson Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Redmond, Washington Posts: 6,176	Originally Posted by Roadtoad They got him. "Two Pakistani officers and a government official said Sunday... " Maybe they have not. It could be any gringo. They all look the same to them. I know from some experience.

7th March 2010, 11:24 PM	#23
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson "Two Pakistani officers and a government official said Sunday... " Maybe they have not. It could be any gringo. They all look the same to them. I know from some experience. Perhaps. Right now, it appears they have an American. Frankly, I would just as soon see him brought back here and locked away, forgotten. Too bad that Johnny Lindh will eventually be released.

7th March 2010, 11:27 PM	#24
Bill Thompson Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Redmond, Washington Posts: 6,176	Originally Posted by Roadtoad Perhaps. Right now, it appears they have an American. Frankly, I would just as soon see him brought back here and locked away, forgotten. Too bad that Johnny Lindh will eventually be released. I would prefer to see him stay in Pakistan and let their justice system deal with him. We would be way too soft on him, I think.

7th March 2010, 11:31 PM	#25
BaaBaa Semi-literate hench-person Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,419	I thought this thread was about this: http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/04/texas-taliban/ "Christian Hate Group ‘Repent Amarillo’ Terrorizes Texas Town, Harassing Gays, Liberals, And Other ‘Sinners’"

7th March 2010, 11:33 PM	#26
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Covered in another thread, but thanks for the reminder.

8th March 2010, 12:20 AM	#27
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer What would you charge him with? Originally Posted by rwguinn If publicly urging attacks on your own country, publicly supporting people who want to attack your own country, and providing moral support for such people is not treason, then 1. nothing is, or 2. you're Jane Fonda Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg What should we charge him with if not treason ? Wearing a silly hat ? Originally Posted by Puppycow It seems they did catch an American Taliban, but a different one. Regarding whether Adam Gadahn's actions qualify as treason, hell yes! It's a textbook definition of the word. Should John Walker Lindh have been tried for treason?
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

8th March 2010, 06:08 AM	#28
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,884	There is a big difference between AQ and the Taliban. This man is AQ.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945

8th March 2010, 06:11 AM	#29
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,884	Originally Posted by Bill Thompson I would prefer to see him stay in Pakistan and let their justice system deal with him. We would be way too soft on him, I think. Would you 'prefer' to have their justice system in the US?
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945

8th March 2010, 06:15 AM	#30
Matthew Best Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 4,113	Quote: Gadahn, the first American to face treason charges in more than 50 years, has appeared in more than half a dozen al-Qaida videos, taunting the West and calling for its destruction. The video that surfaced Sunday showed him urging American Muslims to attack their own country. He has been on the FBI's most wanted list since 2004 and there is a $1 million reward for information leading to his arrest. He was charged with treason in 2006 and faces the death penalty if convicted. He was also charged with two counts of providing material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization. Blimey! And I'd never even heard of him before, or seen a single one of these videos. Maybe I should pay more attention.

8th March 2010, 06:53 AM	#31
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,266	Originally Posted by Puppycow It seems they did catch an American Taliban, but a different one. Yes. We actually caught the American Idol Taliban.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

8th March 2010, 07:02 AM	#32
Alferd_Packer Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 7,201	Quote: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. So, unless you have two witnesses to an over tact, you are out of luck charging someone with treason. I'm not sure making a video fals under that category as it may be protected by the first amendment,
	__________________ No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post

8th March 2010, 08:29 AM	#33
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 3,556	Update: the American militant who was picked up is not Gadahn. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_pakistan_al_qaida_arrest
	__________________ If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak. -Jayne Cobb Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

8th March 2010, 08:38 AM	#34
drkitten Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Wits' End Posts: 21,647	Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer So, unless you have two witnesses to an over tact, you are out of luck charging someone with treason. I'm not sure making a video fals under that category as it may be protected by the first amendment, The video itself is treasonous; two witnesses can easily testify to the existence of the video.

8th March 2010, 08:50 AM	#35
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus There is a big difference between AQ and the Taliban. This man is AQ. Oh, do explain. Or by "big difference" do you mean "AQ flew planes into buildings, Taliban only pointed and laughed (and housed and fed and protected etc)" as the basic distinguishing factor? I'm trying to figure out why Lindh, who was captured fighting US troops (though apparently not 'technically' so) should be considered any different just because of which fundie club his name gets attached to.
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}