The Zahi Hawass Fan Club (& General Egypt Discussion)

[MG1962]

Thanks - I had totally forgotten......................all over it

[Cleon]

I'm totally digging Chasing Mummies...It's not your standard run-of-the-mill "Dr. Hawass Shows You Ancient Egypt" TV show.

[MG1962]

Originally Posted by Cleon

I'm totally digging Chasing Mummies...It's not your standard run-of-the-mill "Dr. Hawass Shows You Ancient Egypt" TV show.

It was almost like deadliest catch meets hells kitchen meets mummies. He is a fiesty fellow lol

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by MG1962

It was almost like deadliest catch meets hells kitchen meets mummies. He is a fiesty fellow lol

Hah...It's got to be hell on wheels working for him; the guy's got a hell of a short fuse. And the way everyone kisses his ass as a result is comical. "Oh, I'm so sorry, Dr. Hawass!" "Yes, my fault, Dr. Hawass!" "I'll get it right away, Dr. Hawass!"

[Tacita]

I enjoyed the show.

[Audible Click]

I wish they'd ditch the drama and focus on the actual "mummy chasing" but that's reality TV for ya.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Audible Click

I wish they'd ditch the drama and focus on the actual "mummy chasing" but that's reality TV for ya.

I actually like the drama. Yeah, it's cheesy, but it's also a side of Egyptology we don't get to see from the usual one-hour specials and documentaries.

[ShadowSot]

Seems the Zoe girl is an actress, from her profile.

I enjoyed the show, to a degree, but beyond that...it was sort of ridiculous.

It's like they tried to balance out their other projects (ancient aliens) and just... missed it.

[Orphia Nay]

http://www.archaeologydaily.com/news...aoh-Found.html

Quote:

Archaeologists in Jerusalem have unearthed the most ancient written document ever found in the Holy City a tiny fragment of a letter thought to be addressed to Akhenaten, the "heretic" pharaoh who ruled Egypt during the 14th century B.C.

Wow. Evidences from the birth & spread of monotheism.

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

http://www.archaeologydaily.com/news...aoh-Found.html



Wow. Evidences from the birth & spread of monotheism.

It was supposed to be atheism. It's not my fault the reed cutters went off half-Horused.

[dudalb]

I enjoy the show, but Hawiss is trying to be the Simon Cowell of Archaelogy. I think he is doing the nasty bit as shtick.

[ShadowSot]

Second episode wasn't as bad, still didn't find it as good as I was hoping.

[Akhenaten]

Press Release - King Tut's Chariot travels to New York

Mr Farouk Hosni, Minister of Culture, made a major announcement today that one of King Tutankhamun’s chariots would travel to New York City. This is the first time that a chariot from the tomb of Tutankhamun will be allowed out of Egypt. The High Council of Culture decided to sent the chariot to be part of the Tutankhamun and the Golden Age of the Pharaohs exhibit at the Discovery Times Square Exposition. Dr. Zahi Hawass, Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities said that the chariot will arrive in New York City on Wednesday and will be accompanied by a conservator and the Director of the Luxor Musuem, where the chariot is currently displayed.

(Photo: Egyptian Museum)

This particular chariot is very unique and stands out among the other five chariots found among Tutankamun’s burial equipment. Howard Carter found the chariot in the south-east corner of the Antechamber along with three other chariots. It is completely lacking in decoration and has a very light, open sided construction. The tires are also extremely worn, suggesting that this chariot was used frequently in hunting expeditions by the young king. Carter described the chariot as, "of more open, lighter construction probably for hunting or exercising purposes."

Originally Posted by Zahi Hawass

This is the first time that the chariot will travel outside Egypt. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the people of New York to see something of such great significance from the boy king’s life.

linkh

[ShadowSot]

I wish I lived closer to New York. Dang.

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by ShadowSot

I wish I lived closer to New York. Dang.

I'm sure there are a few New Yorkers wishing they lived in Florida.

Swapsies?

[ShadowSot]

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

I'm sure there are a few New Yorkers wishing they lived in Florida.

Swapsies?

Be glad to, Lemee get my hat.

[Apology]

Originally Posted by dudalb

I enjoy the show, but Hawiss is trying to be the Simon Cowell of Archaelogy. I think he is doing the nasty bit as shtick.

Oh, I don't. I think he's much nastier when there isn't a camera pointed at him all the time. I also think that he's doing his level best to maintain his "huggy-teddy-bear-of-Archaeology" image.

He's threatened to fire both Zoe and Derek but kept them on instead; I think that if it weren't for the show, they'd have really been let go. I think someone took the time to convince him that the American audiences already like the fellows, and reminded him to think of all the American tourists and research grants they could expect next year if the show was a hit.

I also think that some of Hawass' more baffling characteristics, such as the over-the-top figures of speech, are indeed cultural in nature.

Does anyone remember, years ago, a special hosted by Maury Povich (before he did his current who's-the-daddy talk show) that featured Dr. Hawass? Hawass was on his best behavior just as he is during his various press conferences and other appearances. He was taking Povich into one of the pyramids and noticed that Povich had shaved in spite of Dr. Hawass' specific instructions. (Please note that they were already inside the pyramid when Dr. Hawass noticed Povich's clean-shaven appearance) Hawass proceeded to explain to Povich that there were bacteria and other nasties down in the tombs that were perfectly capable of surviving being encased in stone for that long, how they could enter through the most minute nick in the skin, giving the shaven person a possibly untreatable, ancient disease, and generally scared the crap out of Povich, to the point that Povich fled the pyramid in terror. I realized that he could be a bit of a jerk way back then, and I could tell that he was biting his tongue and restraining himself from yelling at Povich. It was great viewing

My personal opinion is that Hawass can be a real jerk at times. There's no doubt in my mind that he plays things up in order to keep interest in the pyramids (and therefore tourism and research grants) high. However, he's a very big fish in a very big pond. He has little free time in his schedule, and he deserves to get huffy when someone wastes even a second of it on something stupid.

I would probably dislike him intensely, except that his accomplishments are truly impressive and I think it's funny every time he starts yelling at someone or snaps at them to "SHUT....UP!!!" I can't say that anyone he's yelled at was truly innocent of any transgression, and for every person involved with the show (except Hawass) there are a hundred others like them that would be glad to take their places in Hawass' august presence.

I have to admit, I tuned in thinking that the show was going to turn out drier than a Pharaoh's phart. I couldn't have been more wrong. Not only has there been an interesting discovery and adventure every episode so far, there's all that juicy drama surrounding who Hawass is going to yell at next

[Audible Click]

Although I'm enjoying the show I still deplore all the fake drama. The History Channel Forum is all abuzz with viewer reactions to the "intern" Zoe D'Amato.

http://community.history.com/topic/1...rn.html?page=1

[Apology]

Originally Posted by Audible Click

Although I'm enjoying the show I still deplore all the fake drama. The History Channel Forum is all abuzz with viewer reactions to the "intern" Zoe D'Amato.

http://community.history.com/topic/1...rn.html?page=1

It seems like I'm the only person in America who actually likes this show, according to this message board

Apparently everyone thinks it's fake. Most of the posts in the thread you linked are anti-Zoe in nature, and apparently she took anthropology in college, not archaeology. Now I feel cheated. There are so many more-deserving, less-cute people who could actually benefit from learning from Hawass...

[Orphia Nay]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

http://www.drhawass.com/blog/djedi-t...new%3F+Feed%29

Quote:

Recently I went to visit the Great Pyramid of Khufu and observe the work of the Djedi team. Djedi is a joint international-Egyptian mission, which I named after Djedi, the magician who Khufu consulted when planning the layout of his pyramid. The purpose of this project is to send a robotic tunnel explorer into the two “air shafts” that lead from the Queen’s Chamber of the Great Pyramid of Khufuto gather evidence to determine the purpose of the shafts.

[...]

With the help of the Djedi team, we hope to uncover the meaning of these airshafts by drilling through the doors that are blocking them. The team has made to previous examinations of the airshafts in July and December of 2009. The team is hoping to gather as much evidence as possible to try to piece together the purpose of the airshafts, while at the same time ensuring that the Great Pyramid is not damaged in any way.

[...]

Fascinating! There's always more to learn about the Great Pyramid! Plus, I look forward to hearing what the pyramidiots have to say about their evil nemesis Zahi's revelations.

More on this story:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...d-2046506.html

Quote:

[...]

No one knows what the shafts are for. In 1992, a camera sent up the shaft leading from the south wall of the Queen's Chamber discovered it was blocked after 60 metres by a limestone door with two copper handles. In 2002, a further expedition drilled through this door and revealed, 20 centimetres behind it, a second door.

"The second door is unlike the first. It looks as if it is screening or covering something," said Dr Zahi Hawass, the head of the Supreme Council who is in charge of the expedition. The north shaft bends by 45 degrees after 18 metres but, after 60 metres, is also blocked by a limestone door.

Now technicians at Leeds University are putting the finishing touches to a robot which, they hope, will follow the shaft to its end. Known as the Djedi project, after the magician whom Khufu consulted when planning the pyramid, the robot will be able to drill through the second set of doors to see what lies beyond.

Dr Robert Richardson, of the Leeds University School of Mechanical Engineering, said they would continue the expedition until they reach the end of the shafts.

"We have been working on the project for five years," he said. "We have no preconceptions. We are trying to gain evidence for other people to draw conclusions. There are two shafts. The north shaft is blocked by a limestone door and nothing has penetrated that door. With the south shaft a previous team has measured the thickness of the stone, drilled through it and put a camera through it and found there was another surface. We are going to determine how thick that is and we could drill through it. We are preparing the robot now and expect to send it up before the end of the year. It's a big question, and it's very important not to cause unnecessary damage. We will carry on until we find the answer. We hope to get all the data possible which will be sufficient to answer the questions."

[...]

Place your bets as to what they will find!

My guess is solid limestone.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Apology

Most of the posts in the thread you linked are anti-Zoe in nature, and apparently she took anthropology in college, not archaeology.

That doesn't mean anything, really. In American universities, archaeology is usually considered a subset of anthropology. My college degree is in anthropology, but archaeology was my focus.

[Akhenaten]

Press Release - New settlement discovered in Kharga Oasis

The American-Egyptian mission from Yale University has stumbled upon what appears to be the remains of a substantial settlement. The city is a thousand years earlier than the major surviving ancient remains at the Umm Mawagir area in Kharga Oasis.

Minister of Culture, Farouk Hosny, announced that the settlement is dated to the Second Intermediate Period (ca.1650-1550 BC) and was discovered during excavation work as part of the Theban Desert Road Survey. This project serves to investigate and map the ancient desert routes in the Western desert.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________Photo: Wikimedia Commons
Kharga Oasis

Dr. Zahi Hawass, Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities (SCA), said that the newly discovered settlement is 1km long from north to south and 250m wide from east to west. It lies along the bustling caravan routes connecting the Nile Valley of Egypt and the western oasis with points as far as Darfur in western Sudan. Hawass continued that archaeological evidence at the site indicated that its inhabitants were part of an administrative center and they were engaged in baking on a massive scale.

Excavating the bakery complex at Umm Mawagir
(Photo: Courtesy of the expedition)

Dr. John Coleman Darnell, head of the Yale mission, said that during excavations remains of large administrative mudbrick structures were found. These buildings consisted of rooms and halls similar to administrative buildings previously found in several sites in the Nile Valley. These sites may have been used as a lookout post as part of the administrative center of the settlement. Part of an ancient bakery was also found with two ovens and a potter’s wheel, used to make the ceramic bread molds in which the bread was baked. The amount of remains from the debris dumps outside the bakery suggest that the settlement produced a food surplus and may have even been feeding an army.

Linkh

[Cleon]

Chasing Mummies is simultaneously addictive and driving me crazy at the same time. The "fellows" are obviously actors, and not very good ones - the over-the-top manufactured drama just has to go.

But once Hawass is in his element - talking archaeology - it's endlessly fascinating. Even when the timings of the "discoveries" are rather suspicious, it's neat to watch.

(I really enjoyed the episode where they kept referring to the "pyramidiots.")


Much became clear to me when I discovered that Leslie Greif, the producer who insists on shoving his face into every scene, helped bring Walker, Texas Ranger into the world.

[Apology]

I had high hopes for the new fellow, Alice, but it seems she doesn't know much more about archaeology than the two that have already left. She certainly knows less about Egyptian archaeology than our own Akhenaten

I'm a little disappointed in the series because I feel that the fellows on the show should be knowledgeable about Egyptian archaeology in order to deserve their positions with Dr. Hawass. I'd rather see homely fellows that know a lot than attractive fellows that are ignorant. In my opinion, the show would be better without any fellows at all, just a camera crew following Dr. Hawass around while he shows us what they've found.

[Rodney]

I attended Hawass's Saturday evening lecture at the Association for Research and Enlightenment (Edgar Cayce's organization) in Virginia Beach, VA. Hawass was quite witty and alluded to a recent discovery he had made that has not yet been publicized. When asked when he plans to retire, Hawass didn't reply directly, but said that he has not yet found an Egyptologist with his passion. When asked how the Great Pyramid was built, he said that was another lecture, but noted that he had seen his workers move and cut 20-ton stones with relative ease. That did not explain to my satisfaction how the 40-70 ton granite blocks were positioned more than 200 feet above the King's Chamber, but perhaps that's his new discovery.

[Orphia Nay]

Originally Posted by Rodney

I attended Hawass's Saturday evening lecture at the Association for Research and Enlightenment (Edgar Cayce's organization) in Virginia Beach, VA. Hawass was quite witty and alluded to a recent discovery he had made that has not yet been publicized. When asked when he plans to retire, Hawass didn't reply directly, but said that he has not yet found an Egyptologist with his passion. When asked how the Great Pyramid was built, he said that was another lecture, but noted that he had seen his workers move and cut 20-ton stones with relative ease. That did not explain to my satisfaction how the 40-70 ton granite blocks were positioned more than 200 feet above the King's Chamber, but perhaps that's his new discovery.

Or perhaps the Egyptians moved those 40-70 ton blocks with relative difficulty. That doesn't mean it was impossible for them.

[Rodney]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

Or perhaps the Egyptians moved those 40-70 ton blocks with relative difficulty. That doesn't mean it was impossible for them.

Does it bother you that books such as The Pyramids and Sphinx (Newsweek, 1971) informed their readers with no evidence that external ramps were used to move those blocks, and that the external ramp theory has now been discredited?

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Rodney

Does it bother you that books such as The Pyramids and Sphinx (Newsweek, 1971) informed their readers with no evidence that external ramps were used to move those blocks, and that the external ramp theory has now been discredited?

It doesn't bother me one little bit, actually. That's how science works - when new evidence disproves the prevailing idea, it is discarded.

This is why modern medicine largely depends on germ theory, which has scads of evidence, rather than the previous "maladjustment of humors" theory, which doesn't.

It's a much more productive approach than the "pyramidiot*" approach of arguments from incredulity mixed with good old-fashioned "making **** up."

* Dr. Hawass' term, I believe.

[Rodney]

Originally Posted by Cleon

It doesn't bother me one little bit, actually. That's how science works - when new evidence disproves the prevailing idea, it is discarded.

Yes, but why was the external ramp idea presented by mainstream Egyptologists for years as the unquestioned truth?

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by Rodney

Yes, but why was the external ramp idea presented by mainstream Egyptologists for years as the unquestioned truth?

Because it made sense? For that matter, it still does.

Where are you getting the idea that the external ramp theory has been discarded anyway? Apart from one bloke's snazzy-looking computer model of internal ramps, where is the evidence that this is how it was done.

Or are you suggesting something with no ramps at all?

Heliopoliscopters?

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Rodney

Yes, but why was the external ramp idea presented by mainstream Egyptologists for years as the unquestioned truth?

Because it was the best explanation at the time. There was no reason to think that it was false.

[Rodney]

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Because it made sense? For that matter, it still does.

Where are you getting the idea that the external ramp theory has been discarded anyway?

As Wikipedia notes: "One of the widely discredited ramping methods is the large straight ramp, and it is routinely discredited on functional grounds for its massive size, lack of archaeological evidence, huge labor cost, and other problems . . . Other ramps serve to correct these problems of ramp size, yet either run into critiques of functionality, limited archaeological evidence, or the inability to construct the entire monument, mostly due to the limited space available at the top of the monument." See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptia...ion_techniques

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Apart from one bloke's snazzy-looking computer model of internal ramps, where is the evidence that this is how it was done.

I agree that the internal ramps hypothesis is speculative as well -- it's just that it hasn't been around that long, and so has not been extensively explored. On the other hand, the external ramps hypothesis has been around for ages, and there's still no evidence to support it.

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Or are you suggesting something with no ramps at all?

Heliopoliscopters?

There's the kite hypothesis -- see http://www.philipcoppens.com/kite_obel.html. However, my main point is that Egyptologists should not be so anxious to discredit the "space aliens built it" or the "Atlanteans built it" hypotheses that they grasp at the most convenient straw.

[Orphia Nay]

From Zahi:

http://www.guardians.net/hawass/buildtomb.htm

Quote:

The lower part of the cemetery [of the pyramid builders] contains about 600 such graves for workmen and 30 larger tombs, perhaps for overseers. The tombs come in a variety of forms: stepped domes, beehives, and gabled roofs. Two to six feet high, the domes covered simple rectangular grave pits, following the configuration of the pyramids in an extremely simplified form. One small tomb featured a miniature ramp leading up and around its dome. Could the builder have intended it to represent the construction ramp of a royal pyramid?

[shadron]

Originally Posted by Rodney

Does it bother you that books such as The Pyramids and Sphinx (Newsweek, 1971) informed their readers with no evidence that external ramps were used to move those blocks, and that the external ramp theory has now been discredited?

Maybe I'm a bit slow here, but what has supplanted external ramps? Who has discredited them? Surely you aren't taking the simple word of that French architect who sees tunnels all through the pyramids, are you? If that's not it, then give me a clue, and tell me where all the evidence for it is.

BTW, I would expect external ramps were the theory because they are pretty much the simplest kind of solution there is.

Edit: I see Ankhenaten got there ahead of me; I should have expected that. So I guess I'm not the only one in the dark about this archaeological revolution. No, I don't mean one long ramp; the accepted version is a series of ramps winding around the pyramid. Also, I wouldn't put it past the Frechman to edit wikipedia himself; the one communication I had with him gave me a new impression on "pushy". There's all sorts of clever chaps who have clever ideasd about specific parts of the building process, but afaik, except for the French chap, no one has a better idea.

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by Rodney

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Because it made sense? For that matter, it still does.

Where are you getting the idea that the external ramp theory has been discarded anyway?

As Wikipedia notes: "One of the widely discredited ramping methods is the large straight ramp, and it is routinely discredited on functional grounds for its massive size, lack of archaeological evidence, huge labor cost, and other problems . . .

A long straight ramp and a ramp which wraps around the Pyramid both have the same objective: to convert horizontal movement into vertical movement.

However, a wrap-around ramp (or a zig-zagger) offers at least two major advantages:

1. Part of the ramp is provided by the Pyramid itself. This represents a considerable saving in both labour and material.
   
   
2. Increasing the height of a long straight ramp to keep pace with the increasing height of the Pyramid would mean moving the start point of the ramp further and further away, while the start point of a wrap-around remains in one place and material is only added to the upper end. Having the start point both static and close to the construction site offer advantages in command and control, decreased movement of the labour force and materials, and ease of deconstruction once the Pyramid is completed.

Originally Posted by Rodney

Other ramps serve to correct these problems of ramp size, yet either run into critiques of functionality, limited archaeological evidence, or the inability to construct the entire monument, mostly due to the limited space available at the top of the monument." See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptia...ion_techniques

I did indeed see your reference, and this is what I saw:

Quote:

Most Egyptologists acknowledge that ramps are the most tenable of the methods to raise the blocks, yet they acknowledge that it is an incomplete method that must be supplemented by another device. Archaeological evidence for the use of ramps has been found at the Great Pyramid of Giza and other pyramids.

and

Quote:

Levering methods are considered to be the most tenable solution to complement ramping methods, partially due to Herodotus' description; and partially to the Shadoof; an irrigation device first depicted in Egypt during the New Kingdom, and found concomitantly with the Old Kingdom in Mesopotamia. In Lehner's (1997: 222) point of view, levers should be employed to lift the top 3% of the material of the superstructure. It is important to note that the top 4% of this material comprises 33% of the total height of the monument. In other words, in Lehner's view, levers should be employed to lift a small amount of material and a great deal of vertical height of the monument.

Geeze, mate. Quote mining Wikipedia is no way to construct a Pyramid an argument.

Originally Posted by Rodney

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Apart from one bloke's snazzy-looking computer model of internal ramps, where is the evidence that this is how it was done.

I agree that the internal ramps hypothesis is speculative as well -- it's just that it hasn't been around that long, and so has not been extensively explored. On the other hand, the external ramps hypothesis has been around for ages, and there's still no evidence to support it.

What do you mean, "no evidence to support it"?

Remember this?

Originally Posted by Rodney

Other ramps serve to correct these problems of ramp size, yet either run into critiques of functionality, limited archaeological evidence . . .

my bolding

You can't reject one hypothesis on the basis of having little evidence and propose that another hypothesis, with no evidence at all is more likely to be true.

Well, you can, but people would say you're being silly.

Originally Posted by Rodney

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Or are you suggesting something with no ramps at all?

Heliopoliscopters?

There's the kite hypothesis -- see http://www.philipcoppens.com/kite_obel.html.

Kites??!!!eleven??!!

Apart from the fact that the drongoes in your link are talking about raising 11 tonne obelisks and not dead lifting the blocks the Pyramids are made out of, that idea makes my joke about the Heliopoliscopters seem plausible.

Besides, there's this hieroglyph from the temple of Seti I at Abydos:

Heliopoliscopters, jet planes and blimps. No kites.

Originally Posted by Rodney

However, my main point is that Egyptologists should not be so anxious to discredit the "space aliens built it" or the "Atlanteans built it" hypotheses that they grasp at the most convenient straw.

I have a feeling that aliens and Atlanteans would fall more into the "grasping at straws" category than anything proposed by Egyptologists.

[SusanB-M1]

Just picked up this link on the News Desk of the Graham Hancock message board:

http://news.discovery.com/archaeolog...andfather.html

I don't know whether this is oldish news, but thought it would fit in with this topic.

[Akhenaten]

Dad!

[Helen]

He looks kind of cosy, all by himselves

[Wolrab]

Will Zahi Hawass survive a regime change in Egypt?

[tyr_13]

Originally Posted by Wolrab

Will Zahi Hawass survive a regime change in Egypt?

I hope so! He should be fine though unless the government gets taken over by rabid nationalist/Muslim extremist who push their ideology over science, Hawass will remain.

I just named a character in my book Zahi.