Electrical Sensitivity

[cbish]

My hometown newspaper is at it again.

http://www.theunion.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../NEWS/40127007

This is a lengthy article about a guy who claims electricity is killing him so he moved his family out to Grizzly Adam's shack. I'm curious to see how many logical fallacies you fine folks can find with this one. Some quotes I found interesting:

Quote:

Don Kaput and his wife had been to doctors and specialists, and they found themselves considering acupuncture to determine just what was making him sick.

This is the only reference about seeking medical attention. From whom? To what diagnosis/suggested treatment? I would like a little more elaboration on this point.

Quote:

Don and his family believe those symptoms of electrical sensitivity most likely appeared years before his wilderness odyssey began, after he developed an aversion to oil-based thinners and solvents used in their painting-contracting business.

You don't suppose this could be relevent?

Quote:

Her proof of the towers’ destructive effect on her husband is a large cardboard box stuffed with copies of affidavits, court files, texts and articles reprinted from the Internet about electrical sensitivity

That proves it to me! What better source than the land of hearsay. By the way, how could they be surfing the web when he's allergic to computers?

This could be my favorite

Quote:

Don Kaput and his family are in hearings to determine if he’s eligible for federal financial assistance.

Can you believe it?....who'd a thunk it?!

Actually, I know the author of this article and usually he's pretty skeptical. I'm a little suprised he wrote in such a flattering tone. He did however write somewhat of an addendum which was on the last page of the original article:

http://www.theunion.com/apps/pbcs.dl...NEWS/101270049

From this article

Quote:

The American Medical Association hasn't recognized electrical sensitivity, known as ES, as an established organic disease.

and

Quote:

Rand Malone, a Florida-based allergist and member of the American Academy of Asthma, Allergy and Immunology, said the syndrome probably is an acute sensitivity to chemicals, smells, detergents or paints that is called vaso motor rhinitis

Quote:

Research on syndromes like ES have proved inconclusive, because there haven't been any successful double-blind tests where the tester and the subject are unaware they're being exposed to the environment making them sick

I've often argued with our editor that he can do more to dumb down our community with his work than I can do in the classroom.

One last question. What is the psychology behind this type of behavior? To be oversimplified it seems to boil down to "I'm sick, remove myself from society, poor me, aren't I great?" I had a psychologist tell me once that feeling sorry for yourself was fun. It was comforting. A form of self love. Like the "they'll be sorry when I'm dead" fantasy after your parents scolded you as a child. It seems pretty easy. Easier than finding out what's really wrong.

[Goshawk]

Umm...I'm probably missing something here:

Quote:

brought on by modern conveniences — such as his 17 years of sleeping on a waterbed heated with electrical currents, which Don said made him vomit during the night.

Most of the waterbed heaters I'm familiar with are made of a pad with electrical wires running through it which goes underneath the water-filled mattress. The pad, needless to say, is covered in vinyl, so you don't get electrocuted. The waterbed mattress is also usually of vinyl.

Now, my understanding was that vinyl is an excellent insulator--that's why black electrician's tape is made of vinyl, no? So how was Don being exposed to electricity--from fully insulated wires? The electricity wasn't "floating around" in the water of the waterbed. If that were true, then he'd have been electrocuted. The electricity was all contained within the wires.

AND, what about this?

Quote:

These days, Don misses simple pleasures, like being able to turn on the TV and watch a ballgame. Save for a gas-powered generator that he fires up occasionally to run the washing machine, lights and refrigerator, “we’re practically out of power all the time.”

Errm...they're all living like the "Swiss Family Robinson" in order to "preserve the life of their patriarch", who is so strongly "allergic" to electricity that they've all decamped to the total boondocks and are supposedly eschewing electricity in all its forms--but he runs the washing machine, and lights? Off a generator? Isn't that, like, um, electricity?

And they also need the generator to run the TV.

Quote:

There is a TV, but it’s rarely, if ever, turned on.

A small B & W TV pulls 100 watts; a color TV pulls 300 watts.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/emergency-power2.htm

So when those kids turn on their TV, they're blasting their beloved patriarch with at least 100 watts of the thing that makes him sick. Why is it even in the house?

What am I missing?

[Abdul Alhazred]

Quote:

Originally posted by Goshawk

The electricity was all contained within the wires.

Not that I give any creedence to this hypochondriac, but you are vibrating in sympathy with the alternating current around you.

This can be confirmed by turning an oscilloscope up to maximum senstitivity and holding the leads in one hand (but not touching each other). You can then increase the signal quite a bit by grabbing the insulated power cord of the oscilloscope.

It will be a few millivolts at most, but you are an antenna all the same.

[cbish]

Abdul wrote:

Quote:

but you are an antenna all the same

So he's suffering from a form of 'Electrical Lupis'?

[Jeff Corey]

So, too much juice and Don is Kauput?

[cbish]

Jeff,
I was going to PM you to see if you'd jump in on this. I'm curious about the psychology involved in this extreme action. I see this as a form of martyrdom.

It seems to me there is a myriad of variables yet to be ruled out. From the article, it doesn't seem to indicate that he's even tried. In my mind, in analyzing this type of situation, it seems more like he doesn't really want to explore all options because this one is more comforting to him and his family. Why is that?

[Jeff Corey]

There is not enough information to even guess. But the expert opinion on the effects of aerosol and paint vapors summs plausible.
And I meant to say Kaput.

[Iconoclast]

Quote:

Originally posted by Goshawk
Now, my understanding was that vinyl is an excellent insulator--that's why black electrician's tape is made of vinyl, no? So how was Don being exposed to electricity--from fully insulated wires? The electricity wasn't "floating around" in the water of the waterbed. If that were true, then he'd have been electrocuted. The electricity was all contained within the wires.

While the waterbed heater is completely insulated, the issue at hand is the electric field that's generated by the current in the wiring which will extend beyond the wires themselves. However, a wire carrying 4 amps at 110V or even -- the more masculine Australian equivalent -- 240V produce such a weak electric field that I can't see it affecting anyone.

Mr Kaput seems not to be immune to pseudoscience, since in this artcle he's shown holding a "cone-shaped contraption in his left hand, called a polarizer, helps him live a productive life in an increasingly high-tech world. The $90 resin device helps his body diffuse radio waves from microwave ranges, fluorescent lighting and televsion sets that often leave him nauseated and dizzy for days."

The thing I don't understand is why it seems nobody has bothered to perform a simple test as to whether or not these people really CAN feel when they're near electric fields, the testing protocol would be quite simple.

[MRC_Hans]

Don Kaput? Don Kaput??? ... I'm sorry, of course the man's name is irrelevant, still.... giggle.

I have heard of such cases, but they never seem to be investigated, although, as somebody mentioned, the protocol would be very simple indeed. The resin cone thing is ridiculous, of course, but we can't expect Mr. Kaput (giggle) to be an electric engineer.

On the technical side: Sure, we are exposed to electric fields from wires and utilities all around us. These fields come in many strengths and frequencies, so IF a sensitivity exists, it will surely affect the person.

The thing that makes it a bit unlikely is that humans are notoriously insensitive to electrical fields (I am for simplicity lumping electric and magnetic fields here). The normal person has to be subjected to VERY strong fields indeed to be able to feel it. There are several reasons for this; among other things, the human body is not good at absorbing these fields, they mostly pass through us at low frequencies and reflect off us at high frequencies.

The currents induced in a human body from normal wires and utilities is much lower than the electrical signals running in our nervous system, so if a person had some hypersensitivity to electircal currents, you would think he/she would be tormented constantly by the electrical signals in his/her nerves.

I don't suppose we can rule out electrical hypersensivity entirely without performing tests, but it is FAR more likely that persons claiming to suffer from it have a psychological problem.

Hans

[Quasi]

Quote:

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
The currents induced in a human body from normal wires and utilities is much lower than the electrical signals running in our nervous system, so if a person had some hypersensitivity to electircal currents, you would think he/she would be tormented constantly by the electrical signals in his/her nerves.

I don't suppose we can rule out electrical hypersensivity entirely without performing tests, but it is FAR more likely that persons claiming to suffer from it have a psychological problem.

Hans

I thought the same thing too. I believe that MCS and ES are caused by a relatively common form of mental illness. Too bad they are being taken advantage of. I also found it humorous that he can drive a car without any effects in addition to the others you mentioned.

[cbish]

MRC_Hans wrote:

Quote:

Don Kaput? Don Kaput??? ... I'm sorry, of course the man's name is irrelevant, still.... giggle

I know, I know! I did wonder if this was a legitamite article. As I mentioned, I know of this writer and he's normally pretty skeptical of these things. I can picture him giggling the whole time. The editor is also quite a prankster. But, knowing our community (we have a disporportionate population of alternative lifestyles here), it was a real/sell newspapers article.

MRC_Hans also wrote:

Quote:

I don't suppose we can rule out electrical hypersensivity entirely without performing tests, but it is FAR more likely that persons claiming to suffer from it have a psychological problem.

If you read the second article, it mentions that it has been tested and basically has failed double-blind studies.

Quasi wrote:

Quote:

I believe that MCS and ES are caused by a relatively common form of mental illness

This was actually the intent of this thread. I'm really interested in the psychology involved.

[Goshawk]

IANA psychologist, but I do know another family in which the dad is the dysfunctional center of attention, or, as the mom once confessed to me, "In our family, Tom is the problem child..."

So, IMO it's just an immature bid for "attention". I mean, look at the way he's got his whole family jumping through hoops for him.

Not to mention the media sniffin' round...

[Agammamon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Goshawk
. . .Now, my understanding was that vinyl is an excellent insulator--that's why black electrician's tape is made of vinyl, no? So how was Don being exposed to electricity--from fully insulated wires? The electricity wasn't "floating around" in the water of the waterbed. If that were true, then he'd have been electrocuted. The electricity was all contained within the wires.
. . .

In addition to being insulated from any LF EM by several inches of water.

[cbish]

From the end of the second article.

Quote:

The condition causes her to pick up low sounds from Beale Air Force Base in neighboring Yuba County, she said, and she can hear garbled voices or sounds, "like a faint radio," when her house is quiet

THAT'S AWESOME!! I wish I could do that.

Wasn't there an episode of Gilligan's Island where Gilligan turned into a radio?