Merged: Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[DC]

Originally Posted by Skeptic

My experience with "Palestine Solidarity Movements" is rather extensive. They are, at least all such "activists" groups I've met, which are many, very much pro-Israel's destruction, behind a thin veneer of pseudo-"caring" for Palestinians, which evaporates completely the moment their suffering cannot be blamed on the Jews.

Surely your group is totally different -- it's those 98% of disgusting pro-genocide "Palestine Solidarity Groups" that give the other 2% the bad name -- but, if I were you, I'd double check.

often when i read Thunders posts i think to myself, well i get what he means but he is clearly over the top with that accusation, then you come along and confirm his points.

have you ever considered using a less broad brush? especially as you are one of those that likes to point to other people's broad brush.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Kotatsu

You've got to hand it to them, though: the left is very clever in the way that they are both anti-semites and thereby consider the Israeli some sort of subhuman scum, well separated from themselves, and consider the Israeli the same as themselves because they are both white people oppressing the browns! This sort of mental juggling is way beyond me -- I simply can't work it out!

Well, a group of people is a group, which means it’s made up of different people who may have different motivations for doing whatever it is they are doing. That means it’s quite possible for some people to be motivated by one thing and other people among the same group to be motivated by another.

Originally Posted by Kotatsu

Yes, quite likely some or even most of them did. I would not at all be surprised to learn that at least some of the people aboard those ships took very solemn and serious farewells of their friends and family before they left. That does not in any way imply that they were expecting to actually get shot to death by experts in non-lethal take-over.

Here is a clip from MEMRI.org that shows at least one woman talking about martyrdom.

http://www.memri.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/239/0/2489.htm

Originally Posted by Kotatsu

I would also like to reiterate that the protest meeting I was at had 16 speakers. As far as I can remember, these were:
- The Communistic Party
- The Green Party
- The Socialist Party
- The Social Democratic Party
- The Left party
- Amnesty International
- Ship to Gaza
- The Swedish-Turkish Society
- The Palestine Group
- The Union of Swedish Muslims (1)
- The Conservative Party
- The Centre Party (neoliberal)
- The People's Party (liberal)
- The Church of Sweden
- Emmaus (a religious charity organisation)
- and one more that I can't remember at the moment.

You will notice that at least five of these are on the political right, and that another four are (at least officially) politically neutral.

I’m looking at this list and I don’t know what you consider to be conservative. Can you identify which ones you consider to be conservative and which you consider neutral?

[Skeptic Guy]

I don't know how this is all going to shake out, at the very least (for wrong or right) it is a PR disaster of tremendous harm to the Isrealis whether they were justified in what they did or not. I did see an interview on CNN this morning with the Israeli Ambassador Oren where he said that the IDF boarded the ship armed with paint-ball guns. That sounded a bit weird, but I'm willing to go with it. Someone must have had real guns if a bunch of people got killed.

[bigjelmapro]

I can bring this up ad nauseum if you wish since its central to the argument supporting the raid of this neutral ship, and I've added a bit for the definition of contraband, if there was any on board, which wasn't mentioned when the aid was transferred to Gaza by Israel today:

San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994

Quote:

SECTION VI : CAPTURE OF NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND GOODS

146. Neutral merchant vessels are subject to capture outside neutral waters if they are engaged in any of the activities referred to in paragraph 67 or if it is determined as a result of visit and search or by other means, that they:

(a) are carrying contraband;
(b) are on a voyage especially undertaken with a view to the transport of individual passengers who are embodied in the armed forces of the enemy;
(c) are operating directly under enemy control, orders, charter, employment or direction;
(d) present irregular or fraudulent documents, lack necessary documents, or destroy, deface or conceal documents;
(e) are violating regulations established by a belligerent within the immediate area of naval operations; or
(f) are breaching or attempting to breach a blockade.

Capture of a neutral merchant vessel is exercised by taking such vessel as prize for adjudication.

147. Goods on board neutral merchant vessels are subject to capture only if they are contraband.

148. Contraband is defined as goods which are ultimately destined for territory under the control of the enemy and which may be susceptible for use in armed conflict.

I'll keep posting this until someone responds in kind and ceases with this allegation that international waters near a naval blockade within reach of the exclusion zone properly declared (under the clauses of Zoning of the same document) are somehow a free zone to do whatever one wishes, especially after repeated statements by the flotilla of its intentions to breach the blockade.

What this mob on board this ship was uncalled for and can only be interpreted as a provocation for propaganda purposes, which has overwhelmingly worked in the international media.

This can for all intensive purposes be on par with the propaganda material of Abu Ghraib used by Islamists groups to recruit and garner sympathy for their cause. The big difference between this and Abu Ghraib, the naval blockade and the raid of the main ship in this flotilla is legal according to international maritime law.

I hope the media will pay attention for the flotilla that is slated to go to Turkey's port where thousands of Armenians were killed to bring aid to the Armenians will follow through. Then perhaps we can see how Turkey will react, albeit, I highly doubt this will be as big a media spectacle as this in the lastest Gaza incident....

[Safe-Keeper]

Originally Posted by Pardalis

So she had a perfect vantage point to make that determination.

Which is a pity, since if I want an objective report, I'll ask an activist.

[Skeptic]

It didn't even take long to check.

The "Palestine Solidarity Review" in Atlanta, GA, has a web page where it -- in large type -- declares that one of its principles is the "Right of Return", that is, the destruction of Israel by demographic means, as well as the "full decolonization of the land in Palestine" -- that is, again, Israel's destruction.

It also has such wonderfully "informative" articles such as "zionism and Slavery in Sudan", interviewing folks who wrote books about "zionist collaboration with the Nazis", etc., etc., etc. There is nothing on that web site that isn't "evil zionists control the world" or "Israel must be destroyed".

Yes, that web page hasn't been updated since 2005, and I am not 100% sure the "Palestine Solidarity Review" is in fact the official organ of the "Palestine Solidarity movement" in Atlanta, but, allow me to suspect that, even if they aren't actually the same organization, there is a significant overlap in the people and views.

See? Told you, Cleon.

[DC]

Originally Posted by bigjelmapro

I can bring this up ad nauseum if you wish since its central to the argument supporting the raid of this neutral ship, and I've added a bit for the definition of contraband, if there was any on board, which wasn't mentioned when the aid was transferred to Gaza by Israel today:

San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994


I'll keep posting this until someone responds in kind and ceases with this allegation that international waters near a naval blockade within reach of the exclusion zone properly declared under the clauses of Zoning of the same document.

What this mob on board this ship was uncalled for and can only be interpreted as a provocation for propaganda purposes, which has overwhelmingly worked in the international media.

This can for all intensive purposes be on par with the propaganda material of Abu Ghraib used by Islamists groups to recruit and garner sympathy for their cause. The big difference between this and Abu Ghraib, the naval blockade and the raid of the main ship in this flotilla is legal according to international maritime law.

I hope the media will pay attention for the flotilla that is slated to go to Turkey's port where thousands of Armenians were killed to bring aid to the Armenians will follow through. Then perhaps we can see how Turkey will react, albeit, I highly doubt this will be as big a media spectacle as this in the lastest Gaza incident....

i have read parts of the UN charter involved and i also think that Israel was within the law when the blockade is considered legal.
Still the question is if the killing of 9 people can be justified with self defence.

and there is also moral point of view, not only the legal one.

[Skeptic]

Originally Posted by carlitos

This is pathetic, even for you.

Parky, as usual, takes Hamas' side. What did you expect? That's what he does.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Skeptic

It didn't even take long to check.

The "Palestine Solidarity Review" in Atlanta, GA, has a web page where it -- in large type -- declares that one of its principles is the "Right of Return", that is, the destruction of Israel by demographic means, as well as the "full decolonization of the land in Palestine" -- that is, again, Israel's destruction.

It also has such wonderfully "informative" articles such as "zionism and Slavery in Sudan", interviewing folks who wrote books about "zionist collaboration with the Nazis", etc., etc., etc. There is nothing on that web site that isn't "evil zionists control the world" or "Israel must be destroyed".

Yes, that web page hasn't been updated since 2005, and I am not 100% sure the "Palestine Solidarity Review" is in fact the official organ of the "Palestine Solidarity movement" in Atlanta, but, allow me to suspect that, even if they aren't actually the same organization, there is a significant overlap in the people and views.

See? Told you, Cleon.

care to explain?

what you mean by this exactly?
`
they actually say this

Quote:

The recognition of the Right of Return with compensation for the Palestinian refugees as per U.N. Resolution 194.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by funk de fino

Same old excuses, semantics, deflections and quibbling. Read a dictionary.

When I got punished for something my brother did but would not admit it was collective punishment. I dont need to read the GC to understand English.

This is dumb even for you.

lol, you got nothin'.

That and $4.50 buys you something at Starbucks.

[Thunder]

Why is Skeptic defending Fascists again?

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by DC

often when i read Thunders posts i think to myself, well i get what he means but he is clearly over the top with that accusation, then you come along and confirm his points.

have you ever considered using a less broad brush? especially as you are one of those that likes to point to other people's broad brush.

The International Solidarity Movement has a history of some very questionable activities that go way beyond what a "peace movement" should do. I don' t think it's an exaggeration to say they are on the side of Hamas.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-violence.html

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by carlitos

This is pathetic, even for you.

oh come on, didn't you find it a little funny?

you know you did. its ok to admit it. seeing those schmucks lowering themselves down into the crowd. what is wrong with them?

i too would have beat those fools with a stick...if they came on my boat.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Thunder

oh come on, didn't you find it a little funny?

you know you did. its ok to admit it. seeing those schmucks lowering themselves down into the crowd. what is wrong with them?

i too would have beat those fools with a stick...if they came on my boat.

not funny at all. it might be funny in TV but for both side involved it was in no way funny.

[Kotatsu]

Originally Posted by Pardalis

But as Kotatsu mentioned, you guys also are well informed and knew of the flotilla's intention to force against the blocade last week.

I still sort of get the impression that this is at least mildly surprising to you. Getting these boats and the volunteers and the money needed and the material and everything has taken a long time, and I know all the Swedes aboard had regular contact with people back home throughout the trip until the Israeli came, so I would be extremely surprised if the people who had organised all this and all the people who have in some way contributed would be entirely clueless about what day the ships would approach Israeli territorial waters and make for Gaza. The intention to get to Gaza -- and thus to break the blockade -- has, as far as I can remember, been at least implicit in the project since at least First of May last year (perhaps even further back, because I can't remember when I first heard about it).

The left -- and everyone else who supported this convoy -- were well aware of where the ship was and what its intent was. The wildcard was the Israeli military; there was no way to tell what they would do. A friend of mine actually hoped that they would sort of give in to some form of vague international pressure and just let the ship pass and thus lift the blockade, but that seemed to me to be somewhat naïve even before yesterday.

Originally Posted by Pardalis

Not in Canada. The demonstrations were international. It's not Memorial Day everywhere.

The demonstrations in Sweden that I know of were held after working hours. In my case, it was two hours after I finish work. I don't know about demonstrations in other countries, though.

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Go to the local Hillel Jewish pro-Israel meeting. Find an opportunity to ask them: "how many of you would accept a Palestinian state if it indeed recognizes and lives in peace with the Jewish state"?

I am willing to bet that, at least, 90% of the hands will go up.

Go to your local "Palestinian solidarity group" meeting and ask the same question (in reverse) -- how many would be willing to accept a Jewish state if it does, in fact, live in peace with a Palestinian state.

I am willing to bet less than 10% of the hands would go up.

I don't recall a single organisation speaking at the protest yesterday -- including the three Muslim ones -- who didn't advocate some form of two-state solution, and this was applauded by the entire audience every time. Maybe Sweden is aberrant, but I have never met anyone on the left here who has actually advocated anything other than either a two-state solution, or a solution in which there is only one state, but where the Israeli and the Palestinians coexist peacefully side by side.

Originally Posted by Pardalis

But unfortunately, you wouldn't have been able to attend massive protests about it, because such protests don't exist.

And like Skeptic (or whoever it was), I think that is a pity. I see no reason there shouldn't be any such protests. Could it be because the political right generally don't do protests, and the political left would never stage such a thing because of dogma?

Originally Posted by Pardalis

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, I'm just amazed at how extremely fast these groups can be channelled, organized on short notice and sprung into action whenever Israel is to blame.

I would say, based on my experience from Sweden, that protests against government murders of civilians in Iran, in Kurdistan and so on can be arranged as quickly. I will concede that they are not as numerous, and never as well-attended, but I have seen several large protests against the government in Iran the same day, or the day after, it has performed some atrocity.

To some extent, I do believe most of the people organising these latter events seem to be older, and belonging to interest groups rather than "proper" organisations, meaning that they would be forced to plan these protests after work hours, whereas many of the Palestine solidarity groups seem to consist of younger people, who may for instance have shorter work hours and so on. This could well be a factor in why other kinds of protests are sometimes delayed.

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Only they never bother to demonstrate when dictatorships engage in war.

Except, of course, for Iran, Iraq, Chile, Franco's Spain, and so on.

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Well, did you demonstrate when a Palestinian mob massacred reservist soldiers in Ramallah? No? Didn't think so.

I can give a few other examples when just what you said -- Palestinian mob killing soldiers (or civilians) -- occurred.

I'm willing to bet very good money you didn't demonstrate in any of those cases, either.

Thank you for letting me answer before you put words in my mouth. It appears, however, that you have made the wrong deduction. While, as Pardalis points out, there are no large-scale protests against Palestinian aggression, I have repeatedly protested in conversations with friends on the left whenever these things have happened. I have repeatedly made it clear to my leftist friends that I find the killings of Israeli civilians as despicable as the killings of Palestinian civilians. I have repeatedly challenged my friends on the left on what I perceive to be some sort of mindless censoring of Israeli activities, but an equally mindless acceptance of Palestinian guiltlessness.

If there were large-scale protests against Palestinian murders of Israeli civilians, I would be as likely to participate as I am in pro-Palestinian protests. What matters is whether or not someone has been killed, not who has killed her. But, again, there are no such protests.

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Here is a clip from MEMRI.org that shows at least one woman talking about martyrdom.

http://www.memri.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/239/0/2489.htm

Sorry, but when I click that, I get an error message saying that I need a certain plug-in, and when I click the link to get that plug-in, nothing happens. Do you know if the same clip is available at, for instance, YouTube?

Originally Posted by Mycroft

I’m looking at this list and I don’t know what you consider to be conservative. Can you identify which ones you consider to be conservative and which you consider neutral?

Certainly:
Politically conservative groups:
The Conservative party
The People's Party
The Centre party
The Church of Sweden

Politically neutral:
- Amnesty International
- Ship to Gaza
- The Swedish-Turkish Society
- The Palestine Group
- The Union of Swedish Muslims
- JIPS

However, I would like to correct myself. I was not very familiar with Emmaus before, and having checked, I realise that they cannot be described as "conservative", and thus I retract their inclusion in that list. On the other hand, I understand that JIPS is politically neutral (according to a friend; I haven't checked it myself).

[bigjelmapro]

Originally Posted by DC

i have read parts of the UN charter involved and i also think that Israel was within the law when the blockade is considered legal.
Still the question is if the killing of 9 people can be justified with self defence.

There's a point when you can't disarm people that well outnumber you, whom are armed with knives and pistols with every intent on killing the IDF soldiers, that one is completely justified in using lethal force. This applies to all Western nations from police to the military.

Quote:

and there is also moral point of view, not only the legal one.

What moral point is that? To kill or be killed?

I cannot understand for the life of me why with the video information given that in the situation the IDF were put in and every avenue pursued prior to the use lethal force, that the IDF still is not justified in using this lethal force.

[carlitos]

Originally Posted by Thunder

oh come on, didn't you find it a little funny?

you know you did. its ok to admit it. seeing those schmucks lowering themselves down into the crowd. what is wrong with them?

i too would have beat those fools with a stick...if they came on my boat.

Pathetic.

[DC]

Originally Posted by bigjelmapro

There's a point when you can't disarm people that well outnumber you, whom are armed with knives and pistols with every intent on killing the IDF soldiers, that one is completely justified in using lethal force. This applies to all Western nations from police to the military.


What moral point is that? To kill or be killed?

I cannot understand for the life of me why with the video information given that in the situation the IDF were put in and every avenue pursued prior to the use lethal force, that the IDF still is not justified in using this lethal force.

the videos did change my mind pretty much, but for you its 100% sure the blockade is legal, from your point of view understandable, but not so much for me.

and the videos not show everything, i think an independent investigation would be helpfull.

with the moral point I meant the blockade itself.

[bigjelmapro]

Originally Posted by Kotatsu

...
Politically neutral:
- Amnesty International

Don't know too much about the rest, but AI, although they declaration states that they are politically neutral, they are far from it.

Interesting set of articles on the matter since I don't want to derail:
Amnesty International

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Skeptic

It didn't even take long to check.

The "Palestine Solidarity Review" in Atlanta, GA, has a web page where it -- in large type -- declares that one of its principles is the "Right of Return", that is, the destruction of Israel by demographic means, as well as the "full decolonization of the land in Palestine" -- that is, again, Israel's destruction.

It also has such wonderfully "informative" articles such as "zionism and Slavery in Sudan", interviewing folks who wrote books about "zionist collaboration with the Nazis", etc., etc., etc. There is nothing on that web site that isn't "evil zionists control the world" or "Israel must be destroyed".

Yes, that web page hasn't been updated since 2005, and I am not 100% sure the "Palestine Solidarity Review" is in fact the official organ of the "Palestine Solidarity movement" in Atlanta, but, allow me to suspect that, even if they aren't actually the same organization, there is a significant overlap in the people and views.

See? Told you, Cleon.

Yeah...No. For so many, many reasons, no. Outdated, a different organization, different people...the PSReview was never the "official organ" of anything but the guy who ran it. (Who is no longer active, and I believe no longer lives in Atlanta.)

But I'm sure you know these people better than I do. After all, your experience is extensive.


The thing is, it doesn't matter. You classify everyone who sides with the Palestinians as terrorist-supporting lunatics bent on genocide of the Jews. It doesn't matter if they're Muslim, Jewish, Christian, agnostic, Republican, Maoist, pacifist, or whatever; everyone just wants to kill all the Jews.

It doesn't matter what the specifics are, or who the people involved are; you're going to say the same damn thing. So what's the point?

[Thunder]

Only an anti-Semite would not trust an internal IDF investigation into the matter.

[DreadNiK]

Originally Posted by Thunder

oh come on, didn't you find it a little funny?

you know you did. its ok to admit it. seeing those schmucks lowering themselves down into the crowd. what is wrong with them?

i too would have beat those fools with a stick...if they came on my boat.

Is it in poor taste to suggest you put your money where your mouth is and join the next flotilla?

[bigjelmapro]

Originally Posted by DC

and the videos not show everything, i think an independent investigation would be helpfull.

I agree. I do wonder how 'independent' this would be. I hope it wouldn't involve a Goldstone-like team.

Quote:

with the moral point I meant the blockade itself.

I'm not relishing the concept of a blockade on Gaza. I do, however, think its a necessary avenue (and quite frankly, don't know of many others to pursue) judging by who is in power, what their stated intentions are, the acts they've committed, and their plans for the future.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Thunder

i too would have beat those fools with a stick...if they came on my boat.

There's another boat leaving soon, will you be on it?

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Cleon

It doesn't matter if they're Muslim, Jewish, Christian, agnostic, Republican, Maoist, pacifist, or whatever; everyone just wants to kill all the Jews.

um.....are you saying they don't?

are you suggesting supporting Palestinian and Israeli-Arab civil rights does NOT equal wanting to genocide the Jews?

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by WildCat

There's another boat leaving soon, will you be on it?

if the IDF comes on my boat, I'll beat them senseless with my baton.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Thunder

if the IDF comes on my boat, I'll beat them senseless with my baton.

Will you be on the next boat Thunder?

[DreadNiK]

Originally Posted by Thunder

if the IDF comes on my boat, I'll beat them senseless with my baton.

signature material right here folks

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by WildCat

Will you be on the next boat Thunder?

What a silly question. Are you about to join the IDF?

[bigjelmapro]

Originally Posted by WildCat

There's another boat leaving soon, will you be on it?

Well, if that happens, I'll be sure to call in early for my reservist duty this year

[carlitos]

Originally Posted by Cleon

What a silly question. Are you about to join the IDF?

It would be a silly question, if parky wasn't posting his juvenile violence fantasies on this board. Again.

[Kotatsu]

Originally Posted by bigjelmapro

Don't know too much about the rest, but AI, although they declaration states that they are politically neutral, they are far from it.

Hence my qualification in the original list that there were five organisations that were at least officially politically neutral. I apologise for omitting this qualification in the second list.

I've also been informed that the aim was never for the fleet to enter Israeli territorial waters, so that would have to be amended in my previous posts to "Palestinian territorial waters". Further, my friends informs me that there was yet another group present at the protest, but I can't remember them at all, and he can't remember their name. Initially, there were supposed to be 15, but now it seems like there were (at least) 18.

Incidentally, here is the Swedish Ship to Gaza homepage. It is partially in English, but feel free to ask me to translate parts that are not. Their front page states:

Quote:

Ship to Gaza has three objectives:

1) The humanitarian objective is to provide the people of Gaza with means to rebuild.

2) The political objective is to re-establish international law. The current human catastrophe in Gaza does not come as a result of a tsunami or an earthquake; the catastrophe has been created through politics. We are not taking a stand in the internal conflicts in Palestine, but for international law and human rights.

3) The solidarity objective emphasizes that this is not about charity. We are convinced that Palestinians are capable of supporting themselves, provided they are not prevented from doing so.

[Skeptic]

Quote:

Yeah...No. For so many, many reasons, no. Outdated, a different organization, different people...

Yes, my mistake. You mean probably this place on myspace.

Look at the "Friends" list of the organization. The "top 17" friends includes one "Cleon" (perhaps you know him?) and... Mr. "Muslim forever", whose avatar is Hamas' coat of arms. (Along with other assorted useful idiots).

I'm sure that you, knowing Mr. "Muslim forever" so much personally better than me, can tell me what a wonderful, wonderful man he is.

[Stout]

Originally Posted by Kotatsu

Yes, as the political left is firmly set against all forms of modern technology, it is certainly hypocritical of them to use cell phones, Twitter and so on to keep in touch and organise protests when they fell outraged. It would be much easier if they followed the typical leftist dogma and eschewed all these modern wonders in favour of meeting in alleys after dusk so that they can easily be rounded up or beaten down with sabers, like in the good old days. It's over the top to both claim to be members of a progressive movement, and at the same time have the nerve to actually progress!

As I stated above, in the protest I went to yesterday there were such stalwart anti-technology and anti-corporation institutions as the Conservative party, the Swedish Church, and the "Liberals" involved.

You figure I'm asking to much for idealists to actually live their ideology, that banging out anti-corporate posts or waving anti-corporate placards is enough and actually enabling those corporations by purchasing their product(s) isn't hypocritical ? In my world someone whose opposed to the oil and gas industry, ranting about AGW, and going on about alternative energy sources, doesn't own a car or get on a plane.

Quote:

You've got to hand it to them, though: the left is very clever in the way that they are both anti-semites and thereby consider the Israeli some sort of subhuman scum, well separated from themselves, and consider the Israeli the same as themselves because they are both white people oppressing the browns! This sort of mental juggling is way beyond me -- I simply can't work it out!

The reason you can't work it out is because you're unfamiliar with the machinations of the left. It's all about privilege. The Israelis are privileged, they have stuff, like education, material goods, freedom of movement as does all of "western" society. As a lefty, you should be familiar with acknowledging that privilege, unless you're a soft lefty in which case the hard left hates you because you're a "wannabe"

Sure, they'll use you, they need boots on the ground but they're expecting you to sell out and act in your own self interest when push comes to shove.

Anti-semitism is never an issue in these IvP discussions, it's the actions of a state we're talking about, you should know this.

Quote:

You'd think this is something a conservative has just pulled out of his commodious behind because an analysis of the situation not based on the maxim "those lefty plebs are just plain stupid" is beyond their capabilities, but it is so obviously correct

Seriously, read some anti-racist/anti oppression literature. This is real and gets every bit as nutbar ( whoops, non-PC term there, mocking mental illness) as the far right.

Quote:

It's a good thing the conservatives are still holding the banner of separating radical Muslims from ordinary Muslims high, so that they, at least, won't be accused of painting with the broadest of the "the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim" brushes commercially available

Do you agree/disagree that all Muslims should be judged by the actions of a few ? When i say that HAMAS is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, do you read it as all Muslims are dedicated to the destruction of Israel ?

Quote:

I actually (no attempt at irony this time) <snip>

IMO, from here on until the end, the rest of your post rocked.

[Skeptic]

Quote:

if the IDF comes on my boat, I'll beat them senseless with my baton.

And if you see an air Marshall on a plane, you'll kill him.

[DC]

Originally Posted by bigjelmapro

Well, if that happens, I'll be sure to call in early for my reservist duty this year

would not have taught someone could post a stupider post.
i was wrong.

[carlitos]

Originally Posted by swedeish ship to gaza

We are convinced that Palestinians are capable of supporting themselves, provided they are not prevented from doing so.

Evidence?

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Yes, my mistake. You mean probably this place on myspace.

Another royally outdated site, by several years.

Would you please just give this up? It's clear you don't know the people and organizations involved (despite your claims to the contrary), and as I said it doesn't matter who's involved, you're going to say the same damn thing regardless.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Cleon

What a silly question. Are you about to join the IDF?

I wouldn't even be allowed to join the IDF, but there's nothing stopping Thunder from hopping on the next "freedom flotilla" boat so he can attack an IDF soldier when they board the ship, as he claims to long for.

So Cleon, how does your Palestine Solidarity group feel about Hamas? Hezbollah? Is Sami Kuntar a hero to them?

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Skeptic

And if you see an air Marshall on a plane, you'll kill him.

you are comparing a Federal Air Marshall on a commercial airliner originating in the USA, to an IDF soldier illegally boarding a ship full of food and supplies for 1.5 million people suffering under an illegal blockade?

priceless. brainless...but priceless.