Examples of U.S. Soverign Citizen (Freeman on the Land) Failures - Page 3

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

Still waiting to hear what the US Constitution or the Declaration of Independence has to do with anything.

go and read, instead of having everything spoon fed to you.

that's the reason we are in this situation today.

Hans · 6th June 2010, 07:39 PM

What the US Constitution?

The one that doesn't give women the vote and allows slavery - do those exist in the present 'FOTL' world, or do you NOT allow slavery and grant women the right to vote?

Article IV the states

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence...... I don't see anything about a FOTL structure...where is that?

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868.

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.......so where is the mention of FOTL??

Please explain?

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Hans

What the US Constitution?

The one that doesn't give women the vote and allows slavery - do those exist in the present 'FOTL' world, or do you NOT allow slavery and grant women the right to vote?

Article IV the states

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence...... I don't see anything about a FOTL structure...where is that?

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868.

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.......so where is the mention of FOTL??

Please explain?

Explain what?

How a group of men who wanted too become free, did so?

Look we could nit pick all day about whats good and bad in the constitution, and i like how you picked the "bad" stuff, to try and make your point and prove me wrong (which you did not). But whatever, what else should we suspect from a JREFer its typical.

All that you need too know is that there have been Freeman before us and will be Freemen after us. And the DOI and Constitution is only proof of their previous success.

I still don't see how you guys are denying their existence.

D'rok · 6th June 2010, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

fallacy.

Which one?

Sledge · 6th June 2010, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

go and read, instead of having everything spoon fed to you.

that's the reason we are in this situation today.

What situation are we in and how do the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence relate to it? The reason I ask is I don't think you know, you're just hoping you can avoid the questions by getting people to go and read random documents. The ones you've mentioned have precisely zero relevance to my life, so why should I read them? What argument are you making that is supported by something they say?

Hans · 6th June 2010, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

Explain what?

How a group of men who wanted too become free, did so?

Look we could nit pick all day about whats good and bad in the constitution, and i like how you picked the "bad" stuff, to try and make your point and prove me wrong (which you did not). But whatever, what else should we suspect from a JREFer its typical.

All that you need too know is that there have been Freeman before us and will be Freemen after us. And the DOI and Constitution is only proof of their previous success.

I still don't see how you guys are denying their existence.

Did these Freeman in the Magna Carta also revoke their allegiance to the King? ie the government?

Yes, I did prove you wrong - can women not vote and is slavery allowed in your FOTL world?

Please explain how the DOI and Constitution prove that debts don't need to be repaid? The Constitution specifically states that the previous debts of the United States - created from printing money (continentals) are still valid

Elizabeth I · 6th June 2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

fallacy.

try again.

Perhaps you'd like to put down the hookah long enough to tell us which fallacy?

(Here's a hint: fallacy doesn't simply mean "wrong.")

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

What situation are we in and how do the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence relate to it? The reason I ask is I don't think you know, you're just hoping you can avoid the questions by getting people to go and read random documents. The ones you've mentioned have precisely zero relevance to my life, so why should I read them? What argument are you making that is supported by something they say?

I'm not here too educate everyone (thats your own job). Im not trying to avoid anyone.I just have better things too do then go point by point on how you guys are wrong.

If the DOI and Constitution have no relevance too yourself then im guessing your not American and then this has nothing to do with you.

the whole issue is that they EXIST, freeman made them real. and if they can do it then anyone else who comes after them can do the samething.

Elizabeth I · 6th June 2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

I still don't see how you guys are denying their existence.

Denying whose existence?

Hans · 6th June 2010, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

.

If the DOI and Constitution have no relevance too yourself then im guessing your not American and then this has nothing to do with you.

Well BK623 I am American and my ancestors signed the Constitution and DOI. I pretty much have it memorized.

You my friend have no idea what you are talking about.

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Hans

Did these Freeman in the Magna Carta also revoke their allegiance to the King? ie the government?

Yes, I did prove you wrong - can women not vote and is slavery allowed in your FOTL world?

Please explain how the DOI and Constitution prove that debts don't need to be repaid? The Constitution specifically states that the previous debts of the United States - created from printing money (continentals) are still valid

Some freeman align themselves with government and some don't.. this is the key too being a "free"man.

Fallacy.I don't have a FOTL world, so no you did not prove me wrong.

And I never said the DOI and Constitution prove that debts don't need to be repaid. This is your 2nd fallacy in one response.

everyone's rebuttals get worse and worse.

Cl1mh4224rd · 6th June 2010, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

opinions can be reality based but my knowledge is fact based.

That's quite possibly the most retarded attempt at "wisdom" I've seen anyone display.

Sledge · 6th June 2010, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

I'm not here too educate everyone (thats your own job). Im not trying to avoid anyone.I just have better things too do then go point by point on how you guys are wrong.

Then stop posting. Either get in the discussion or leave. Simply telling everyone that they're wrong but refusing to explain why isn't useful or interesting, it's pretty much just trolling. And bad trolling at that.

Quote:

If the DOI and Constitution have no relevance too yourself then im guessing your not American

Well DUH!

Quote:

and then this has nothing to do with you.

Don't be silly.

Quote:

the whole issue is that they EXIST, freeman made them real. and if they can do it then anyone else who comes after them can do the samething.

What exists? The Constitution and DoI? That was never in dispute. Once again, I'm asking you to explain what relevance that has to the matter being discussed. I'm happy to read the two documents and debate them with you if you explain what their relevance is to the discussion.

Basically, you're not making any sense, and I don't think you understand what is being discussed here. Either that or your reading and writing skills are too poor to permit you to get your point across.

Hans · 6th June 2010, 08:26 PM

You seem to be making up stuff

No one in the newly formed US was a Freeman in the sense you seem to think - to those who wanted 'elbow room' went west.

There is no west now either you accept the US government or you are free to go and renounce your citizenship.

Oh, so your one of the special sect of Freeman who pays their debts? Good on ya, but how are we suppose to know? What is you sect called Freeman of the land - non-freeloader division?

D'rok · 6th June 2010, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd

That's quite possibly the most retarded attempt at "wisdom" I've seen anyone display.

Bluekush623 is a previous Stundie winner.

I have high hopes for this one, although it's not quite as good as his last winning effort.

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

Perhaps you'd like to put down the hookah long enough to tell us which fallacy?

(Here's a hint: fallacy doesn't simply mean "wrong.")

how about you get too the subject matter instead of continuing too spew ad hominems in every reply too myself.

not too mention this is coming from someone named Elizabeth 1.

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

Denying whose existence?

re read the posts.

D'rok · 6th June 2010, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

how about you get too the subject matter instead of continuing too spew ad hominems in every reply too myself.

That wasn't an ad hominem.

Quote:

not too mention this is coming from someone named Elizabeth 1.

But that was.

Is it laughing dog time yet?

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Hans

Well BK623 I am American and my ancestors signed the Constitution and DOI. I pretty much have it memorized.

You my friend have no idea what you are talking about.

this was not meant for you, so stop jumping into a conversation between me and someone else.

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd

That's quite possibly the most retarded attempt at "wisdom" I've seen anyone display.

who says i was trying to display wisdom? i was simply stating facts.

(maybe i am just that smart).

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

Then stop posting. Either get in the discussion or leave. Simply telling everyone that they're wrong but refusing to explain why isn't useful or interesting, it's pretty much just trolling. And bad trolling at that.

Well DUH!
Don't be silly.

What exists? The Constitution and DoI? That was never in dispute. Once again, I'm asking you to explain what relevance that has to the matter being discussed. I'm happy to read the two documents and debate them with you if you explain what their relevance is to the discussion.

Basically, you're not making any sense, and I don't think you understand what is being discussed here. Either that or your reading and writing skills are too poor to permit you to get your point across.

I have explained myself countless number of times, you people just refuse too accept reality. And im not trolling, i trying too help actually help you guys.

the relevance is that the DOI and Constitution was not created by a omnipresence, omnipotent and omniscient god or government or the British empire.

it was created by FREEMAN who choose too live life how they seen fit. and not under the rule of anyone but themselves.

and this means if it was done ONCE it can be done AGAIN.

and thus proof of the freeman theory.

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Hans

You seem to be making up stuff

No one in the newly formed US was a Freeman in the sense you seem to think - to those who wanted 'elbow room' went west.

There is no west now either you accept the US government or you are free to go and renounce your citizenship.

Oh, so your one of the special sect of Freeman who pays their debts? Good on ya, but how are we suppose to know? What is you sect called Freeman of the land - non-freeloader division?

LoL, so the fascists get too bogart all the land? that's not freedom, so i guess you accept the reality of a government gone bad, right? not too mention land property is just an illusion up held by a gun.

And frankly it is JREF who has deemed the FOTL freeloaders.

You guys don't care too analyze anything you all just made broad assumptions and stereotypes and apply them too the group as a whole, because its woo.

seriously the accumulated intelligence here is worse then a 6 grade classroom.

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by D'rok

Bluekush623 is a previous Stundie winner.

I have high hopes for this one, although it's not quite as good as his last winning effort.

i am?

can you provide my previous selected entry winner.

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by D'rok

That wasn't an ad hominem.

But that was.

Is it laughing dog time yet?

oh whatever, because funny smelling smoke and hookahs are not in reference too my name bluekush.

get real.

Sledge · 6th June 2010, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

I have explained myself countless number of times, you people just refuse too accept reality. And im not trolling, i trying too help actually help you guys. <snip>

Ah, so you have no idea what's being discussed here. I really do suggest you run along at this point, you're making yourself look very silly.

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

Ah, so you have no idea what's being discussed here. I really do suggest you run along at this point, you're making yourself look very silly.

I think you are talking too yourself.

Elizabeth I · 6th June 2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

how about you get ~~too~~ to the subject matter instead of continuing ~~too~~ to spew ad hominems in every reply ~~too~~ to myself?

not ~~too~~ to mention this is coming from someone named Elizabeth 1.

Quote:

who says i was trying to [yay! Very good. Maybe he can learn.] display wisdom? i was simply stating facts.

(maybe i am just that smart).

Quote:

I have explained myself countless number of times, you people just refuse ~~too~~ to accept reality. And im I'm not trolling, i I'm trying ~~too~~ to ~~help~~ actually help you guys.

the relevance is that the DOI and Constitution was not created by a omnipresence, omnipotent and omniscient god or government or the British empire.

it was created by FREEMAN who choose ~~too~~ to live life how they ~~seen~~ saw fit. and not under the rule of anyone but themselves.

and this means if it was done ONCE it can be done AGAIN.

and thus proof of the freeman theory.

And here's evidence, if any were needed, that overindulgence in the magic weed clouds both thought and expression.

Why don't you sleep it off, then come back and re-read the thread and find out exactly whom posters are referring to when they speak of "Freemen on the Land"?

D'rok · 6th June 2010, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

I think you are talking too yourself.

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Too-or-To-Correctly

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

And here's evidence, if any were needed, that overindulgence in the magic weed clouds both thought and expression.

Why don't you sleep it off, then come back and re-read the thread and find out exactly whom posters are referring to when they speak of "Freemen on the Land"?

more ad hominems? what if i have never even smoked in my life? where does your argument go from there? your assumptions/opinions are really discrediting your credibility.

and just for your information, internet forum grammar is the last of my worries as i barely proofread at all (only multiple paragraphs).

grammar Nazi's point out bad grammar because they have nothing else too discredit/attack their opponent with.

So in my book your arguments have now have less validity. just like the 3 other people who have pointed out my 2 minor grammar mistakes.

D'rok · 6th June 2010, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

i am?

can you provide my previous selected entry winner.

Your wish is my command.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...stundie+finals

It was a landslide victory.

Cl1mh4224rd · 6th June 2010, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

who says i was trying to display wisdom? i was simply stating facts.

(maybe i am just that smart).

Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

Originally Posted by D'rok

Bluekush623 is a previous Stundie winner.

Originally Posted by D'rok

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...stundie+finals

It was a landslide victory.

Ohhh, right. Wow...

LightinDarkness · 6th June 2010, 09:06 PM

This is what I love about FOTLers: You rarely have to say anything to them, they gleefully dig their own graves and debunk themselves if you let them go on long enough.

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by D'rok

Your wish is my command.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...stundie+finals

It was a landslide victory.

wow if that was a stupid comment award winner, this forum is alot dumber then i thought.

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd

Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

Ohhh, right. Wow...

I know i dont know it all, the problem is you guys actually do think you know it all.

Cl1mh4224rd · 6th June 2010, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

I know i dont know it all, the problem is you guys actually do think you know it all.

I'll take that as a "no".

The Dunning-Kruger effect has absolutely nothing to do with believing you "know it all". It has everything to do with being so incompetent in a particular subject that you actually believe you are above average in that subject. It also describes the tendency to dismiss competence in others.

The fact that you so thoroughly misrepresent the FOTL movement itself—something you're actually defending and, therefore, should be expected to understand—tells me that you're awfully ignorant about this subject.

Ladewig · 6th June 2010, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

I'm not here too educate everyone (thats your own job). Im not trying to avoid anyone.I just have better things too do then go point by point on how you guys are wrong.

Fine. You don't have to educate everyone. You don't have to explain why it works. You don't have to explain how it works. You don't have to explain its origins, its value, its nobility or anything else.

ALL WE WANT IS EVIDENCE THAT IT WORKS. Simply provide a documented example of someone saying the FMOTL words in a court of law and subsequently having the case dismissed.

I've said it several times in this thread. The fastest way to get skeptics (including JREF skeptics) to shut up is provide reliable evidence.

Hans · 6th June 2010, 09:29 PM

Well gee BK623 so the creation of the US is an example of your type of FOTL (whichever type that is)

So you are saying you are in rebellion against the US government (as the colonies were against the British)

Is that correct?

You do realize that the people in the new United States:

Didn't individually consent (those who liked the King moved to Canada or New Orleans, etc) but after that no concept of individual 'consent' has ever been present in our political system.

Congress started almost immediately to create statutes (gasp)

Debts were paid

What in the startup of the US do you see a reflection of your version of FOTL.

Please explain

Bluekush623 · 6th June 2010, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd

I'll take that as a "no".

The Dunning-Kruger effect has absolutely nothing to do with believing you "know it all". It has everything to do with being so incompetent in a particular subject that you actually believe you are above average in that subject. It also describes the tendency to dismiss competence in others.

The fact that you so thoroughly misrepresent the FOTL movement itself—something you're actually defending and, therefore, should be expected to understand—tells me that you're awfully ignorant about this subject.

It's not me who misrepresent the FOTL movement it is everyone here at JREF who does that, as i believe it has been dubbed something like Freeloaders on the land or whatever you guys call it.

Im still waiting for you guys too prove someone can not become free or sovereign. the only "real" issue is how its applied or done.

many FOTL are trying too go about this the civil way in court (without the fighting aspect because we have already done that). however with the system (government/courts) being so far dis attached from its origins it has been shown very difficult to do.

however this does not make it false/wrong or unattainable.

Ladewig · 6th June 2010, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

Im still waiting for you guys to prove someone can not become free or sovereign. the only "real" issue is how its applied or done.

It is not our job to prove that someone cannot become sovereign. It is your job to prove that someone actually used the correct FOTL words to avoid debts or prosecution. Please provide evidence in the form of documented court cases that were dismissed because of FOTL claims made in open court.

Cl1mh4224rd · 6th June 2010, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Bluekush623

Im still waiting for you guys too prove someone can not become free or sovereign.

"[...] negative evidence is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven false [...]"

6th June 2010, 07:37 PM	#81
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Sledge Still waiting to hear what the US Constitution or the Declaration of Independence has to do with anything. go and read, instead of having everything spoon fed to you. that's the reason we are in this situation today.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 07:39 PM	#82
Hans Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: NW United States Posts: 2,786	What the US Constitution? The one that doesn't give women the vote and allows slavery - do those exist in the present 'FOTL' world, or do you NOT allow slavery and grant women the right to vote? Article IV the states The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence...... I don't see anything about a FOTL structure...where is that? Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.......so where is the mention of FOTL?? Please explain?
	Last edited by Hans; 6th June 2010 at 07:40 PM.

6th June 2010, 07:59 PM	#83
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Hans What the US Constitution? The one that doesn't give women the vote and allows slavery - do those exist in the present 'FOTL' world, or do you NOT allow slavery and grant women the right to vote? Article IV the states The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence...... I don't see anything about a FOTL structure...where is that? Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.......so where is the mention of FOTL?? Please explain? Explain what? How a group of men who wanted too become free, did so? Look we could nit pick all day about whats good and bad in the constitution, and i like how you picked the "bad" stuff, to try and make your point and prove me wrong (which you did not). But whatever, what else should we suspect from a JREFer its typical. All that you need too know is that there have been Freeman before us and will be Freemen after us. And the DOI and Constitution is only proof of their previous success. I still don't see how you guys are denying their existence.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:00 PM	#84
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,237	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 fallacy. Which one?
	__________________ "War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor "Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

6th June 2010, 08:05 PM	#85
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 go and read, instead of having everything spoon fed to you. that's the reason we are in this situation today. What situation are we in and how do the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence relate to it? The reason I ask is I don't think you know, you're just hoping you can avoid the questions by getting people to go and read random documents. The ones you've mentioned have precisely zero relevance to my life, so why should I read them? What argument are you making that is supported by something they say?
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

6th June 2010, 08:09 PM	#86
Hans Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: NW United States Posts: 2,786	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 Explain what? How a group of men who wanted too become free, did so? Look we could nit pick all day about whats good and bad in the constitution, and i like how you picked the "bad" stuff, to try and make your point and prove me wrong (which you did not). But whatever, what else should we suspect from a JREFer its typical. All that you need too know is that there have been Freeman before us and will be Freemen after us. And the DOI and Constitution is only proof of their previous success. I still don't see how you guys are denying their existence. Did these Freeman in the Magna Carta also revoke their allegiance to the King? ie the government? Yes, I did prove you wrong - can women not vote and is slavery allowed in your FOTL world? Please explain how the DOI and Constitution prove that debts don't need to be repaid? The Constitution specifically states that the previous debts of the United States - created from printing money (continentals) are still valid
	Last edited by Hans; 6th June 2010 at 08:12 PM.

6th June 2010, 08:14 PM	#87
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,267	Quote: fallacy. try again. Perhaps you'd like to put down the hookah long enough to tell us which fallacy? (Here's a hint: fallacy doesn't simply mean "wrong.")
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...

6th June 2010, 08:15 PM	#88
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Sledge What situation are we in and how do the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence relate to it? The reason I ask is I don't think you know, you're just hoping you can avoid the questions by getting people to go and read random documents. The ones you've mentioned have precisely zero relevance to my life, so why should I read them? What argument are you making that is supported by something they say? I'm not here too educate everyone (thats your own job). Im not trying to avoid anyone.I just have better things too do then go point by point on how you guys are wrong. If the DOI and Constitution have no relevance too yourself then im guessing your not American and then this has nothing to do with you. the whole issue is that they EXIST, freeman made them real. and if they can do it then anyone else who comes after them can do the samething.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:17 PM	#89
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,267	Quote: I still don't see how you guys are denying their existence. Denying whose existence?
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...

6th June 2010, 08:18 PM	#90
Hans Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: NW United States Posts: 2,786	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 . If the DOI and Constitution have no relevance too yourself then im guessing your not American and then this has nothing to do with you. Well BK623 I am American and my ancestors signed the Constitution and DOI. I pretty much have it memorized. You my friend have no idea what you are talking about.
	Last edited by Hans; 6th June 2010 at 08:20 PM.

6th June 2010, 08:20 PM	#91
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Hans Did these Freeman in the Magna Carta also revoke their allegiance to the King? ie the government? Yes, I did prove you wrong - can women not vote and is slavery allowed in your FOTL world? Please explain how the DOI and Constitution prove that debts don't need to be repaid? The Constitution specifically states that the previous debts of the United States - created from printing money (continentals) are still valid Some freeman align themselves with government and some don't.. this is the key too being a "free"man. Fallacy.I don't have a FOTL world, so no you did not prove me wrong. And I never said the DOI and Constitution prove that debts don't need to be repaid. This is your 2nd fallacy in one response. everyone's rebuttals get worse and worse.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:21 PM	#92
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 6,618	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 opinions can be reality based but my knowledge is fact based. That's quite possibly the most retarded attempt at "wisdom" I've seen anyone display.

6th June 2010, 08:23 PM	#93
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 I'm not here too educate everyone (thats your own job). Im not trying to avoid anyone.I just have better things too do then go point by point on how you guys are wrong. Then stop posting. Either get in the discussion or leave. Simply telling everyone that they're wrong but refusing to explain why isn't useful or interesting, it's pretty much just trolling. And bad trolling at that. Quote: If the DOI and Constitution have no relevance too yourself then im guessing your not American Well DUH! Quote: and then this has nothing to do with you. Don't be silly. Quote: the whole issue is that they EXIST, freeman made them real. and if they can do it then anyone else who comes after them can do the samething. What exists? The Constitution and DoI? That was never in dispute. Once again, I'm asking you to explain what relevance that has to the matter being discussed. I'm happy to read the two documents and debate them with you if you explain what their relevance is to the discussion. Basically, you're not making any sense, and I don't think you understand what is being discussed here. Either that or your reading and writing skills are too poor to permit you to get your point across.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

6th June 2010, 08:26 PM	#94
Hans Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: NW United States Posts: 2,786	You seem to be making up stuff No one in the newly formed US was a Freeman in the sense you seem to think - to those who wanted 'elbow room' went west. There is no west now either you accept the US government or you are free to go and renounce your citizenship. Oh, so your one of the special sect of Freeman who pays their debts? Good on ya, but how are we suppose to know? What is you sect called Freeman of the land - non-freeloader division?

6th June 2010, 08:27 PM	#95
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,237	Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd That's quite possibly the most retarded attempt at "wisdom" I've seen anyone display. Bluekush623 is a previous Stundie winner. I have high hopes for this one, although it's not quite as good as his last winning effort.
	__________________ "War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor "Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

6th June 2010, 08:28 PM	#96
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Elizabeth I Perhaps you'd like to put down the hookah long enough to tell us which fallacy? (Here's a hint: fallacy doesn't simply mean "wrong.") how about you get too the subject matter instead of continuing too spew ad hominems in every reply too myself. not too mention this is coming from someone named Elizabeth 1.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:32 PM	#97
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Elizabeth I Denying whose existence? re read the posts.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:32 PM	#98
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,237	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 how about you get too the subject matter instead of continuing too spew ad hominems in every reply too myself. That wasn't an ad hominem. Quote: not too mention this is coming from someone named Elizabeth 1. But that was. Is it laughing dog time yet?
	__________________ "War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor "Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

6th June 2010, 08:33 PM	#99
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Hans Well BK623 I am American and my ancestors signed the Constitution and DOI. I pretty much have it memorized. You my friend have no idea what you are talking about. this was not meant for you, so stop jumping into a conversation between me and someone else.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:34 PM	#100
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd That's quite possibly the most retarded attempt at "wisdom" I've seen anyone display. who says i was trying to display wisdom? i was simply stating facts. (maybe i am just that smart).
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:40 PM	#101
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Sledge Then stop posting. Either get in the discussion or leave. Simply telling everyone that they're wrong but refusing to explain why isn't useful or interesting, it's pretty much just trolling. And bad trolling at that. Well DUH! Don't be silly. What exists? The Constitution and DoI? That was never in dispute. Once again, I'm asking you to explain what relevance that has to the matter being discussed. I'm happy to read the two documents and debate them with you if you explain what their relevance is to the discussion. Basically, you're not making any sense, and I don't think you understand what is being discussed here. Either that or your reading and writing skills are too poor to permit you to get your point across. I have explained myself countless number of times, you people just refuse too accept reality. And im not trolling, i trying too help actually help you guys. the relevance is that the DOI and Constitution was not created by a omnipresence, omnipotent and omniscient god or government or the British empire. it was created by FREEMAN who choose too live life how they seen fit. and not under the rule of anyone but themselves. and this means if it was done ONCE it can be done AGAIN. and thus proof of the freeman theory.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:46 PM	#102
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Hans You seem to be making up stuff No one in the newly formed US was a Freeman in the sense you seem to think - to those who wanted 'elbow room' went west. There is no west now either you accept the US government or you are free to go and renounce your citizenship. Oh, so your one of the special sect of Freeman who pays their debts? Good on ya, but how are we suppose to know? What is you sect called Freeman of the land - non-freeloader division? LoL, so the fascists get too bogart all the land? that's not freedom, so i guess you accept the reality of a government gone bad, right? not too mention land property is just an illusion up held by a gun. And frankly it is JREF who has deemed the FOTL freeloaders. You guys don't care too analyze anything you all just made broad assumptions and stereotypes and apply them too the group as a whole, because its woo. seriously the accumulated intelligence here is worse then a 6 grade classroom.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:48 PM	#103
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by D'rok Bluekush623 is a previous Stundie winner. I have high hopes for this one, although it's not quite as good as his last winning effort. i am? can you provide my previous selected entry winner.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:49 PM	#104
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by D'rok That wasn't an ad hominem. But that was. Is it laughing dog time yet? oh whatever, because funny smelling smoke and hookahs are not in reference too my name bluekush. get real.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:51 PM	#105
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 I have explained myself countless number of times, you people just refuse too accept reality. And im not trolling, i trying too help actually help you guys. <snip> Ah, so you have no idea what's being discussed here. I really do suggest you run along at this point, you're making yourself look very silly.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

6th June 2010, 08:52 PM	#106
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Sledge Ah, so you have no idea what's being discussed here. I really do suggest you run along at this point, you're making yourself look very silly. I think you are talking too yourself.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 08:53 PM	#107
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,267	Quote: how about you get ~~too~~ to the subject matter instead of continuing ~~too~~ to spew ad hominems in every reply ~~too~~ to myself? not ~~too~~ to mention this is coming from someone named Elizabeth 1. Quote: who says i was trying to [yay! Very good. Maybe he can learn.] display wisdom? i was simply stating facts. (maybe i am just that smart). Quote: I have explained myself countless number of times, you people just refuse ~~too~~ to accept reality. And im I'm not trolling, i I'm trying ~~too~~ to ~~help~~ actually help you guys. the relevance is that the DOI and Constitution was not created by a omnipresence, omnipotent and omniscient god or government or the British empire. it was created by FREEMAN who choose ~~too~~ to live life how they ~~seen~~ saw fit. and not under the rule of anyone but themselves. and this means if it was done ONCE it can be done AGAIN. and thus proof of the freeman theory. And here's evidence, if any were needed, that overindulgence in the magic weed clouds both thought and expression. Why don't you sleep it off, then come back and re-read the thread and find out exactly whom posters are referring to when they speak of "Freemen on the Land"?
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...

6th June 2010, 08:55 PM	#108
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,237	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 I think you are talking too yourself. http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Too-or-To-Correctly
	__________________ "War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor "Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

6th June 2010, 09:00 PM	#109
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Elizabeth I And here's evidence, if any were needed, that overindulgence in the magic weed clouds both thought and expression. Why don't you sleep it off, then come back and re-read the thread and find out exactly whom posters are referring to when they speak of "Freemen on the Land"? more ad hominems? what if i have never even smoked in my life? where does your argument go from there? your assumptions/opinions are really discrediting your credibility. and just for your information, internet forum grammar is the last of my worries as i barely proofread at all (only multiple paragraphs). grammar Nazi's point out bad grammar because they have nothing else too discredit/attack their opponent with. So in my book your arguments have now have less validity. just like the 3 other people who have pointed out my 2 minor grammar mistakes.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 09:03 PM	#110
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,237	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 i am? can you provide my previous selected entry winner. Your wish is my command. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...stundie+finals It was a landslide victory.
	__________________ "War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor "Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

6th June 2010, 09:04 PM	#111
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 6,618	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 who says i was trying to display wisdom? i was simply stating facts. (maybe i am just that smart). Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect? Originally Posted by D'rok Bluekush623 is a previous Stundie winner. Originally Posted by D'rok http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...stundie+finals It was a landslide victory. Ohhh, right. Wow...
	Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 6th June 2010 at 09:08 PM.

6th June 2010, 09:06 PM	#112
LightinDarkness Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,554	This is what I love about FOTLers: You rarely have to say anything to them, they gleefully dig their own graves and debunk themselves if you let them go on long enough.

6th June 2010, 09:08 PM	#113
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by D'rok Your wish is my command. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...stundie+finals It was a landslide victory. wow if that was a stupid comment award winner, this forum is alot dumber then i thought.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 09:10 PM	#114
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645	Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect? Ohhh, right. Wow... I know i dont know it all, the problem is you guys actually do think you know it all.
Bluekush623 Muse Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 645

6th June 2010, 09:17 PM	#115
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 6,618	Originally Posted by Bluekush623 I know i dont know it all, the problem is you guys actually do think you know it all. I'll take that as a "no". The Dunning-Kruger effect has absolutely nothing to do with believing you "know it all". It has everything to do with being so incompetent in a particular subject that you actually believe you are above average in that subject. It also describes the tendency to dismiss competence in others. The fact that you so thoroughly misrepresent the FOTL movement itself—something you're actually defending and, therefore, should be expected to understand—tells me that you're awfully ignorant about this subject.
	Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 6th June 2010 at 09:20 PM.