Stem Cells & Healing?

[Mojo]

But note that these fundamentally allopathic systems are regulated by the same government department as homoeopathy, and their proponents have the nerve to call real medicine "allopathy".

[PixyMisa]

Yeah. The alternative medicine people will accept anything as long as it doesn't actually work.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Mojo

2+2=4.

Quote:

Several factors are important to regulate stem cell characteristics within the niche: cell-cell interactions between stem cells, as well as interactions between stem cells and neighbouring differentiated cells, interactions between stem cells and adhesion molecules, extracellular matrix components, the oxygen tension, growth factors, cytokines, and physiochemical nature of the environment including the pH, ionic strength (e.g. Ca2+ concentration) and metabolites, like ATP, are also important. The stem cells and niche may induce each other during development and reciprocally signal to maintain each other during adulthood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell_niche

I am more attracted to bold ones above. Probably, it is low oxygen tension, low pH & higher Ca2+ may be relavent to increased stem cells activities.

Can anyone tell me about level of these during prenatal fetal development?

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

HAha, thanks. I honestly couldn't even figure out what was being asked.

It can be due to that this may not be your subject.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by PixyMisa

I can add.

Homeopathy is fraud. It's dangerous and potentially deadly in that patients might die because they do not seek out real medical attention.

Ayurvedic medicine is fraud. It's dangerous and potentially deadly, not only in that patients might die because they do not seek out real medical attention, but also in that the medicines themselves can be poisonous.

Both are entirely without scientific basis and are promoted only by the supremely ignorant and the criminally negligent.

Repeating, whether science is yet absolute & final? If not, which system's medicines can be more harmful if given without absolute understanding?

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by PixyMisa

Also, India has some of the worst healthcare statistics of any country. Kumar, I'll give you three guesses as to why.

Whatever, still population of India is increasing more & more? Just check, what nature suggest?

[PixyMisa]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Repeating, whether science is yet absolute & final?

Stop that. All you are doing is hunting for excuses to shore up your belief in these frauds.

The question is, is there any evidence that homeopathy works? That it has any effect at all? That it is even possible that it could work?

No. There is none. What's more, it contradicts everything we know. Not only does it not work, it can't possibly work.

Quote:

If not, which system's medicines can be more harmful if given without absolute understanding?

Ayurvedic and other "traditional" medicines are worst by far. It's not unusual for deaths to be caused directly by these medicines, when they have no therapeutic value at all.

Then comes homeopathy. It's not directly harmful, but it is, as pointed out earlier, indirectly harmful and potentially lethal.

And then, far far better, comes real medicine. Sometimes real medicine can be dangerous. But it demonstrably saves enormous numbers of lives, where ayurvedic medicine just takes your money and poisons you.

[PixyMisa]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Whatever, still population of India is increasing more & more?

Yes, even with the abysmal public health standards of India, people are still reproducing faster than they are dying. So?

Quote:

Just check, what nature suggest?

What nature suggests is that you drop the ayurvedic medicine and homeopathy garbage and use real medicine.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by PixyMisa

Stop that. All you are doing is hunting for excuses to shore up your belief in these frauds.

The question is, is there any evidence that homeopathy works? That it has any effect at all? That it is even possible that it could work?

No. There is none. What's more, it contradicts everything we know. Not only does it not work, it can't possibly work.


Ayurvedic and other "traditional" medicines are worst by far. It's not unusual for deaths to be caused directly by these medicines, when they have no therapeutic value at all.

Then comes homeopathy. It's not directly harmful, but it is, as pointed out earlier, indirectly harmful and potentially lethal.

And then, far far better, comes real medicine. Sometimes real medicine can be dangerous. But it demonstrably saves enormous numbers of lives, where ayurvedic medicine just takes your money and poisons you.

Other people in mass also feel & experiance with other systems like you feel with your prefered system. They simply prefer because they experiance lesser side effects with desired effects.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by PixyMisa

Yes, even with the abysmal public health standards of India, people are still reproducing faster than they are dying. So?


What nature suggests is that you drop the ayurvedic medicine and homeopathy garbage and use real medicine.

Nature suggests "survival of fittest".

[Giggywig]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Other people in mass also feel & experiance with other systems like you feel with your prefered system. They simply prefer because they experiance lesser side effects with desired effects.

You are mistaken. PixyMisa was not talking about how he "feels." He was talking about what is known through evidence. Your refusal to understand the difference is to your detriment.

[Kumar]

Quote:

How Stem Cells Help the Healing Process

When stem cells are injected intravenously, intramuscularly or subcutaneously, they travel to those parts of the body that have suffered from some type of injury. At these various sites of injury, the blood vessels have been damaged, narrowed and constricted. These constrictions prevent the oxygen carrying red blood cells from passing through to the tissues - which then produce areas of reduced oxygen content. Since stem cells are large, they become lodged in these narrowed and constricted small blood vessels. The low levels of oxygen found in these damaged areas are just what the stem cells need to grow and multiply.

http://www.stemcelltherapies.org/cordbloodresearch.htm

Conditions Treatable by Stem Cell Transplantation
http://www.stemcelltherapies.org/tre...conditions.htm

Above quote is also interesting & relavent.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Giggywig

You are mistaken. PixyMisa was not talking about how he "feels." He was talking about what is known through evidence. Your refusal to understand the difference is to your detriment.

Plenty of live evidences can be found in homeopathic clinics. On comparing risk-benefits, lower consistency of homeopathic outcome than outcome from strict scientific studies(for concentrated/toxic chemicals) can still be useful. He should get desired evidences when science will be absolute & final.

[Giggywig]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Plenty of live evidences can be found in homeopathic clinics.

You are mistaken.

Originally Posted by Kumar

On comparing risk-benefits, lower consistency of homeopathic outcome than outcome from strict scientific studies(for concentrated/toxic chemicals) can still be useful.

You are mistaken There is no benefit from homeopathy.

Originally Posted by Kumar

He should get desired evidences when science will be absolute & final.

Science will never be "absolute & final." This is a reality of this universe. Your refusal to understand this speaks to ignorance and juvenile naivete. This does not mean that any hypothesis is equally valuable. Some have been dismissed, like homeopathy.

[Taffer]

I see you are back and at it again, Kumar.

You mention people feeling good when using homeopathic medicine. Understand, it is a FACT that homeopathic medicine has no more affect than taking a sugar pill.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Nature suggests "survival of fittest".

How would you use this idea to control population, given that at present people are reproducing faster than they are dying?

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Giggywig

Science will never be "absolute & final."

He's had this pointed out to him time and time again.

[PixyMisa]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Other people in mass also feel & experiance with other systems like you feel with your prefered system.

No they don't. This is completely untrue. We can see this "in mass" via India's appalling healthcare statistics.

Quote:

They simply prefer because they experiance lesser side effects with desired effects.

With homeopathy, there's no direct side effect, but there's no desired effect either.

With ayurvedic medicine, the side effects are worse, and there's still no desired effect.

[PixyMisa]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Nature suggests "survival of fittest".

And in this context, the fittest are those who use real medicine.

[PixyMisa]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Plenty of live evidences can be found in homeopathic clinics.

No. The evidence found from "homeopath clinics" is that homeopathy does nothing.

Quote:

On comparing risk-benefits, lower consistency of homeopathic outcome than outcome from strict scientific studies(for concentrated/toxic chemicals) can still be useful. He should get desired evidences when science will be absolute & final.

No.

Homeopathy is completely ineffective. We've studied it. It doesn't work. It's physically impossible too, but the main point is that it just doesn't work.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Giggywig

You are mistaken.

You are mistaken There is no benefit from homeopathy.

I can be mistaken in you but not in mine.

Quote:

Science will never be "absolute & final." This is a reality of this universe. Your refusal to understand this speaks to ignorance and juvenile naivete. This does not mean that any hypothesis is equally valuable. Some have been dismissed, like homeopathy.

You have said the truth. However it can be upto certain extent, if it can respect both energy & matter--fandamentals to this universe.

Anyway, you are deviating & deviating me from the subject. You people couldn't contribute a least. So I am discouraged to continue unless I get something. We had wasted much time on TTTT so I shall only respond to subject discussions.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Mojo

How would you use this idea to control population, given that at present people are reproducing faster than they are dying?

Simply, whether today's prefered interventions are not effecting "surrvival of fittest" & propagating unfits to bring unfittness?

Sometime I am convinced with your prefered system as most valid as on date in view of whatever opposed nature's prime goal will correct it by adversities in view of "nature balances itself" & one who dig pit..... , for every action there is....etc. If one want to get graces of nature his acts should be aiding to nature whose prime goal is "balance, homeostasis(God)" neither excess of positives(angels) nor of negatives(devils) etc. because excess of everything is considered to be bad--on either side.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Mojo

He's had this pointed out to him time and time again.

Yes that is your basis, never "absolute & final" still valid?

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by PixyMisa

No. The evidence found from "homeopath clinics" is that homeopathy does nothing.


No.

Homeopathy is completely ineffective. We've studied it. It doesn't work. It's physically impossible too, but the main point is that it just doesn't work.

Today's people at mass are well educated & well informed so can't be guliable. Anyway, nothing to the subject is contributed and we are again wasting time in TTTT. Henceforth I may only respond to contribution to OP.

[PixyMisa]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Today's people at mass are well educated & well informed so can't be guliable.

Since you believe that homeopathy and ayurvedic medicine are useful, it is patently obvious that you, for one, are neither well-educated nor well-informed. Since your beliefs are widespread, it is clear that "people at mass" are similarly neither well-educated nor well-informed.

Indeed, given the unending barrage of nonsense we see on these forums, it is clear that the global education system as a whole is absolutely dreadful. Some countries are better in some areas, but on the whole, the situation is dire. The only comfort we can take is that it was even worse in the 70's.

Quote:

Anyway, nothing to the subject is contributed and we are again wasting time in TTTT. Henceforth I may only respond to contribution to OP.

No. It directly addresses your real point. Whatever stem cells may or may not do, homeopathy and ayurvedic medicine are entirely fraudulent.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Simply, whether today's prefered interventions are not effecting "surrvival of fittest" & propagating unfits to bring unfittness?

Sometime I am convinced with your prefered system as most valid as on date in view of whatever opposed nature's prime goal will correct it by adversities in view of "nature balances itself" & one who dig pit..... , for every action there is....etc. If one want to get graces of nature his acts should be aiding to nature whose prime goal is "balance, homeostasis(God)" neither excess of positives(angels) nor of negatives(devils) etc. because excess of everything is considered to be bad--on either side.

Are you really proposing that we stop using "today's prefered interventions" and eliminate people you consider to be unfit from the gene pool by instead treating them with the useless quackery you support?

Homoeopathy as eugenics?

[Giggywig]

Originally Posted by Mojo

Are you really proposing that we stop using "today's prefered interventions" and eliminate people you consider to be unfit from the gene pool by instead treating them with the useless quackery you support?

Homoeopathy as eugenics?

Can we treat them with something more humane, like a bullet to the head? Death from untreated disease is not fun.

[Giggywig]

Originally Posted by Kumar

I can be mistaken in you but not in mine.

Gibberish.

Originally Posted by Kumar

You have said the truth. However it can be upto certain extent, if it can respect both energy & matter--fandamentals to this universe.

More gibberish.

Originally Posted by Kumar

Anyway, you are deviating & deviating me from the subject. You people couldn't contribute a least. So I am discouraged to continue unless I get something. We had wasted much time on TTTT so I shall only respond to subject discussions.

Remind me what TTTT stands for?

[Mojo]

"This and That Type Talks".

[Kumar]

On the topic;

It is indicative that inflammation, acidic pH, Ca2+ & hypoxic conditions can be related to stem cells activation & mobilization. These also happen in many diseases. Somewhat bone resorption can be low pH related, hypoxia can also be related to acidosis. So all these can be related to each other. As such instabilities in these may be related to stem cells activities--for surrvival benefit.

[Giggywig]

Originally Posted by Kumar

On the topic;

It is indicative that inflammation, acidic pH, Ca2+ & hypoxic conditions can be related to stem cells activation & mobilization. These also happen in many diseases. Somewhat bone resorption can be low pH related, hypoxia can also be related to acidosis. So all these can be related to each other. As such instabilities in these may be related to stem cells activities--for surrvival benefit.

Is there a hypothesis buried there somewhere? I'm not sure what you are claiming.

[Taffer]

Originally Posted by Kumar

On the topic;

It is indicative that inflammation, acidic pH, Ca2+ & hypoxic conditions can be related to stem cells activation & mobilization. These also happen in many diseases. Somewhat bone resorption can be low pH related, hypoxia can also be related to acidosis. So all these can be related to each other. As such instabilities in these may be related to stem cells activities--for surrvival benefit.

Even if this were correct, it wouldn't change the fact that homeopathy does not work.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Giggywig

Is there a hypothesis buried there somewhere? I'm not sure what you are claiming.

However I am not yet sure that anyone here even know this subject.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Taffer

Even if this were correct, it wouldn't change the fact that homeopathy does not work.

Since you are unnecessary linking, Invisible force/Vital force in alternative systems/homeopathy can somewhat resemble to stem cell system. Derangement of this system can be a derangement in vital force.

[Taffer]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Since you are unnecessary linking, Invisible force/Vital force in alternative systems/homeopathy can somewhat resemble to stem cell system. Derangement of this system can be a derangement in vital force.

This doesn't make any sense. But it doesn't matter. Kumar, it is a scientific fact that homeopathy does not work.

[PixyMisa]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Since you are unnecessary linking, Invisible force/Vital force in alternative systems/homeopathy can somewhat resemble to stem cell system.

There is no "invisible force". There is no "vital force". Homeopathy does not resemble the "stem cell system" in any way whatsoever.

Quote:

Derangement of this system can be a derangement in vital force.

There is no vital force.

Also, homeopathy does not work.

[Helen]

Originally Posted by Kumar

Simply, whether today's prefered interventions are not effecting "surrvival of fittest" & propagating unfits to bring unfittness?

Sometime I am convinced with your prefered system as most valid as on date in view of whatever opposed nature's prime goal will correct it by adversities in view of "nature balances itself" & one who dig pit..... , for every action there is....etc. If one want to get graces of nature his acts should be aiding to nature whose prime goal is "balance, homeostasis(God)" neither excess of positives(angels) nor of negatives(devils) etc. because excess of everything is considered to be bad--on either side.

If I understand you correctly (and I'm far from sure I do), you are saying that hoemopathy and ayurvedic cures are better than modern medicine, because they do not interfere with the survival of the fittest (a concept I'm not sure your really understand, by the way). What a horribly callous idea.

So what you are saying in other words, it seems to me, is that homeopathy and ayueveda have no effect at all, since they do not disturb "nature's balance", in sharp contrast to modern medicine, which actually cures people. On that, at least, we agree.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Helen

If I understand you correctly (and I'm far from sure I do)...

I think you do. It isn't the first time he'd brought up the ideas of "survival of the fittest" or the "balance of nature". I'm not sure that he's properly thought it through, though.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by Taffer

This doesn't make any sense. But it doesn't matter. Kumar, it is a scientific fact that homeopathy does not work.

Sicientic fact--however a fact should be absolute and final.

[Kumar]

Originally Posted by PixyMisa

There is no "invisible force". There is no "vital force". Homeopathy does not resemble the "stem cell system" in any way whatsoever.

There is no vital force.

Also, homeopathy does not work.

How you know when you are unable to tell about stem cells?