Ezekiel said what?

Arrow · 10th June 2010, 08:29 AM

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/

Being a low carb/ paleo eater - I eat similar to a hunter gatherer - I thought this post by a cardiologist about Ezekiel's bread mentioned in the bible interesting. You probably have to click the link to see the pictures.

THURSDAY, JUNE 10, 2010

Ezekiel said what?
Some people are reluctant to give up wheat because it is talked about in the Bible. But the wheat of the Bible is not the same as the wheat of today. (See In search of wheat and Emmer, einkorn and agribusiness.) Comparing einkorn to modern wheat, for example, means a difference of chromosome number (14 chromosomes in einkorn vs. 42 chromosomes in modern strains of Triticum aestivum), thousands of genes, and differing gluten content and structure.

How about Ezekiel bread, the sprouted wheat bread that is purported to be based on a "recipe" articulated in the Bible?

Despite the claims of lower glycemic index, we've had bad experiences with this product, with triggering of high blood sugars, small LDL, and triglycerides not much different from conventional bread.

David Rostollan of Health for Life sent me this interesting perspective on Ezekiel bread from an article he wrote about wheat and the Bible. David argues that the entire concept of Ezekiel bread is based on a flawed interpretation.

"I Want to Eat the Food in the Bible."

Are you sure about that?

Some people, still wanting to be faithful to the Bible, will discard the "no grain/wheat" message on the basis of biblical example. After all, God told Ezekiel to make bread, he gave the Israelites "bread from heaven," and then Jesus (who is called the "Bread of Life"!) multiplied bread, and even instituted the New Covenant with what? Bread and wine! If you're going to live the Bible, it seems that bread and/or wheat is going to play a part.

But this is unnecessary. Sure, the Bible can and does tell us how to live, but this doesn't mean that everything in the Bible is meant to be copied verbatim. Applying the Bible to our lives requires wisdom, not a Xerox machine.

The Bible was written in a historical context, and the setting happened to be an agricultural one. Because of this, the language used to describe blessing spoke of things like fields full of grain, or barns overflowing with wheat. Had the Bible been written in the context of a hunter-gatherer culture, the language describing blessing probably would have been about the abundance of wild game, or baskets full of vegetables. Whatever is most valuable in your time and in your culture is a blessing. God accommodated His message to the culture as it existed at the time. This is done throughout Scripture.

There is a danger, then, in merely copying what the Bible says, instead of extracting the principles by which to live. Take the above example of Ezekiel, for instance. There's a whole product line in health food stores called "Ezekiel Bread" that supposedly copies the recipe given in Ezekiel 4:9. This is from the website:

"Inspired by the Holy Scripture verse Ezekiel 4:9., 'Take also unto thee Wheat, and Barley, and beans, and lentils, and millet, and Spelt, and put them in one vessel, and make bread of it...'"

Believing that this "recipe" has some kind of special power just because it's in the Bible is ridiculous. How ridiculous is it? I'll tell you in a moment, but first let me say that this is why it's so important not to confuse descriptives with prescriptives. Is the Bible telling a story, or is it telling us to do something? We would be well-advised not to confuse the two.

In the case of the Ezekiel Bread, what is going on in the passage? There's a siege going on, with impending famine, and Ezekiel is consigned to eating what was considered back then to be some of the worst possible food. It was basically animal chow. But that's not the worst thing going on in this passage. Apparently, when the makers of Ezekiel Bread were gleaning their inspiration for the perfect recipe, they stopped short
of verse 12:

"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight."

Um...what? Well, there was a good reason for this. God was judging His people, and by polluting this really bad bread with dung (which was a violation of Mosaic law; Lev. 5:3), He was saying that they were no different from the unclean Gentiles.

So why would we take this story and extrapolate a bread recipe from it? Beats me. If you were going to be consistent, though, here's what you'd have to end up with:

Let that be a lesson to you. We don't just go and do everything that we see in the Bible.

HansMustermann · 10th June 2010, 09:01 AM

We've had this topic before, but basically, yes, Ezekiel 4:13 makes it very clear what it is: God will drive the Jews among the Gentiles, and make them eat defiled bread there. It even explicitly calls it defiled bread there.

But even without verse 12, it is pretty clear what it is. Under the old law, mixing grains (or fibers) was forbidden and unclean, and the only kosher bread was that made out of a single sort of grain. So the recipe God gives Ezekiel is basically a case of "bake this as an example of the kind of unclean stuff you'll get to eat when you're conquered by the Gentiles." It's not a recipe for good, nutritive bread but a horror recipe.

Though my absolute favourite in the story is verse 4:15. After hearing the recipe and the dung part, Ezekiel protests in verse 4:14 that he's been very devout and strictly kosher all his life, and shouldn't have to eat _that_. So as a reward for his piety, God gives him dispensation in 4:15 to eat his bad bread with cow crap instead of human crap. I'm sure Ezekiel must have been very grateful there

Now _that_ is a verse I'd recommend to anyone wanting to eat their Ezekiel bread because God said so.

But I digress.

But yeah, understanding what it actually says, would require them to actually read and understand the whole damned thing instead of just parroting some verse out of context. For most fundies, swallowing verse 11 as some commandment while having _zero_ clue about what verse 12 or 13 say, seems to me like par for the course. Sadly.

And that brings me to that closing paragraph: "Let that be a lesson to you. We don't just go and do everything that we see in the Bible." It's IMHO not even a case of just doing what they see in the bible. It's that they don't even know what the damned thing actually says, and what they do is some idiocy that's not even supported by the bible. And that is far sadder IMHO.

Marduk · 10th June 2010, 10:10 AM

I was hoping this was gonna be about spaceships that use rotors

HansMustermann · 10th June 2010, 10:19 AM

Eh, after Erich von Däniken that's not an easy topic. He set the bar of pencils-up-the-nose underpants-on-head retarded woo so high that nowadays even champion woosters look at that idea and go, "you know what? let's stick to easy stuff like quantum chi crystals"

the PC apeman · 10th June 2010, 02:31 PM

Chicken butt.

Soapy Sam · 10th June 2010, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by HansMustermann

Eh, after Erich von Däniken that's not an easy topic. He set the bar of pencils-up-the-nose underpants-on-head retarded woo so high that nowadays even champion woosters look at that idea and go, "you know what? let's stick to easy stuff like quantum chi crystals"

EvD is to be thanked. He set many of us on the road to rational thinking.

Ladewig · 11th June 2010, 02:13 AM

Arrow, you may run afoul of the forum's rules for quoting material - unless it was your blog.

Arrow · 11th June 2010, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

Arrow, you may run afoul of the forum's rules for quoting material - unless it was your blog.

Opps, you're right. Thanks. It is a blog I enjoy reading, but not mine.

10th June 2010, 08:29 AM	#1
Arrow Thinker Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 147	Ezekiel said what? http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/ Being a low carb/ paleo eater - I eat similar to a hunter gatherer - I thought this post by a cardiologist about Ezekiel's bread mentioned in the bible interesting. You probably have to click the link to see the pictures. THURSDAY, JUNE 10, 2010 Ezekiel said what? Some people are reluctant to give up wheat because it is talked about in the Bible. But the wheat of the Bible is not the same as the wheat of today. (See In search of wheat and Emmer, einkorn and agribusiness.) Comparing einkorn to modern wheat, for example, means a difference of chromosome number (14 chromosomes in einkorn vs. 42 chromosomes in modern strains of Triticum aestivum), thousands of genes, and differing gluten content and structure. How about Ezekiel bread, the sprouted wheat bread that is purported to be based on a "recipe" articulated in the Bible? Despite the claims of lower glycemic index, we've had bad experiences with this product, with triggering of high blood sugars, small LDL, and triglycerides not much different from conventional bread. David Rostollan of Health for Life sent me this interesting perspective on Ezekiel bread from an article he wrote about wheat and the Bible. David argues that the entire concept of Ezekiel bread is based on a flawed interpretation. "I Want to Eat the Food in the Bible." Are you sure about that? Some people, still wanting to be faithful to the Bible, will discard the "no grain/wheat" message on the basis of biblical example. After all, God told Ezekiel to make bread, he gave the Israelites "bread from heaven," and then Jesus (who is called the "Bread of Life"!) multiplied bread, and even instituted the New Covenant with what? Bread and wine! If you're going to live the Bible, it seems that bread and/or wheat is going to play a part. But this is unnecessary. Sure, the Bible can and does tell us how to live, but this doesn't mean that everything in the Bible is meant to be copied verbatim. Applying the Bible to our lives requires wisdom, not a Xerox machine. The Bible was written in a historical context, and the setting happened to be an agricultural one. Because of this, the language used to describe blessing spoke of things like fields full of grain, or barns overflowing with wheat. Had the Bible been written in the context of a hunter-gatherer culture, the language describing blessing probably would have been about the abundance of wild game, or baskets full of vegetables. Whatever is most valuable in your time and in your culture is a blessing. God accommodated His message to the culture as it existed at the time. This is done throughout Scripture. There is a danger, then, in merely copying what the Bible says, instead of extracting the principles by which to live. Take the above example of Ezekiel, for instance. There's a whole product line in health food stores called "Ezekiel Bread" that supposedly copies the recipe given in Ezekiel 4:9. This is from the website: "Inspired by the Holy Scripture verse Ezekiel 4:9., 'Take also unto thee Wheat, and Barley, and beans, and lentils, and millet, and Spelt, and put them in one vessel, and make bread of it...'" Believing that this "recipe" has some kind of special power just because it's in the Bible is ridiculous. How ridiculous is it? I'll tell you in a moment, but first let me say that this is why it's so important not to confuse descriptives with prescriptives. Is the Bible telling a story, or is it telling us to do something? We would be well-advised not to confuse the two. In the case of the Ezekiel Bread, what is going on in the passage? There's a siege going on, with impending famine, and Ezekiel is consigned to eating what was considered back then to be some of the worst possible food. It was basically animal chow. But that's not the worst thing going on in this passage. Apparently, when the makers of Ezekiel Bread were gleaning their inspiration for the perfect recipe, they stopped short of verse 12: "And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight." Um...what? Well, there was a good reason for this. God was judging His people, and by polluting this really bad bread with dung (which was a violation of Mosaic law; Lev. 5:3), He was saying that they were no different from the unclean Gentiles. So why would we take this story and extrapolate a bread recipe from it? Beats me. If you were going to be consistent, though, here's what you'd have to end up with: Let that be a lesson to you. We don't just go and do everything that we see in the Bible.
Arrow Thinker Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 147

10th June 2010, 02:31 PM	#5
the PC apeman Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 649	Ezekiel said what? Chicken butt.
the PC apeman Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 649

10th June 2010, 09:07 PM	#6
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Originally Posted by HansMustermann Eh, after Erich von Däniken that's not an easy topic. He set the bar of pencils-up-the-nose underpants-on-head retarded woo so high that nowadays even champion woosters look at that idea and go, "you know what? let's stick to easy stuff like quantum chi crystals" EvD is to be thanked. He set many of us on the road to rational thinking.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

11th June 2010, 02:13 AM	#7
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,792	Arrow, you may run afoul of the forum's rules for quoting material - unless it was your blog.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

11th June 2010, 07:53 AM	#8
Arrow Thinker Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 147	Originally Posted by Ladewig Arrow, you may run afoul of the forum's rules for quoting material - unless it was your blog. Opps, you're right. Thanks. It is a blog I enjoy reading, but not mine.
Arrow Thinker Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 147

10th June 2010, 09:01 AM	#2
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,830	We've had this topic before, but basically, yes, Ezekiel 4:13 makes it very clear what it is: God will drive the Jews among the Gentiles, and make them eat defiled bread there. It even explicitly calls it defiled bread there. But even without verse 12, it is pretty clear what it is. Under the old law, mixing grains (or fibers) was forbidden and unclean, and the only kosher bread was that made out of a single sort of grain. So the recipe God gives Ezekiel is basically a case of "bake this as an example of the kind of unclean stuff you'll get to eat when you're conquered by the Gentiles." It's not a recipe for good, nutritive bread but a horror recipe. Though my absolute favourite in the story is verse 4:15. After hearing the recipe and the dung part, Ezekiel protests in verse 4:14 that he's been very devout and strictly kosher all his life, and shouldn't have to eat _that_. So as a reward for his piety, God gives him dispensation in 4:15 to eat his bad bread with cow crap instead of human crap. I'm sure Ezekiel must have been very grateful there Now _that_ is a verse I'd recommend to anyone wanting to eat their Ezekiel bread because God said so. But I digress. But yeah, understanding what it actually says, would require them to actually read and understand the whole damned thing instead of just parroting some verse out of context. For most fundies, swallowing verse 11 as some commandment while having _zero_ clue about what verse 12 or 13 say, seems to me like par for the course. Sadly. And that brings me to that closing paragraph: "Let that be a lesson to you. We don't just go and do everything that we see in the Bible." It's IMHO not even a case of just doing what they see in the bible. It's that they don't even know what the damned thing actually says, and what they do is some idiocy that's not even supported by the bible. And that is far sadder IMHO.

10th June 2010, 10:10 AM	#3
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	I was hoping this was gonna be about spaceships that use rotors

10th June 2010, 10:19 AM	#4
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,830	Eh, after Erich von Däniken that's not an easy topic. He set the bar of pencils-up-the-nose underpants-on-head retarded woo so high that nowadays even champion woosters look at that idea and go, "you know what? let's stick to easy stuff like quantum chi crystals"