Is the paranormal needed?

Brattus · 12th June 2010, 03:39 PM

I've read a lot questions on this forum concerning the paranormal.
Most are of the vain of whether it's real or not.

I think the real question is is the paranormal even needed.

I mean we have been chugging along just fine without it.
Just look at what the mere belief in the paranormal has done.
Countless wars, theft, murder and so on and so on.

Do we really need to read each others thoughts?
Some say crime rates would dramatically fall.
I say we would just wait for them to go to sleep before we killed.

What would the dead have to say that we didn't already know?
That our lost loved ones wished us well? That our mothers loved us?

What real good could come from knowing the future?
Since we would already know then what would be the point of anything?

My vote is no the paranormal is not needed.
There is so much beauty and wonder and mystery in our world as it really is, why make up a fake one?

Resume · 12th June 2010, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Brattus

I read a lot questions on this forum concerning the paranormal.
Most are of the vain of whether it's real or not.

I think the real question is is the paranormal even needed.

I mean we have been chugging along just fine without it.
Just look at what the mere belief in the paranormal has done.
Countless wars, theft, murder and so on and so on.

Do we really need to read each others thoughts?
Some say crime rates would dramatically fall.
I say we would just wait for them to go to sleep before we killed.

What would the dead have to say that we didn't already know?
That our lost loved ones wished us well? That our mothers loved us?

What real good could come from knowing the future?
Since we would already know then what would be the point of anything?

My vote is no the paranormal is not needed.
There is so much beauty and wonder and mystery in our world as it really is, why make up a fake one?

It is as unnecessary as it is non-existent.

Sledge · 12th June 2010, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Brattus

I think the real question is is the paranormal even needed.

Got to stop you here. I totally disagree. Whether the paranormal exists is a far more important question than if it's needed as long as there are people claiming it exists.

Stray Cat · 12th June 2010, 04:25 PM

Surely, the only reason people claim it exists is because they have a need for it?

Brattus · 12th June 2010, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

Got to stop you here. I totally disagree. Whether the paranormal exists is a far more important question than if it's needed as long as there are people claiming it exists.

Well I guess since it doesn't exist then there's no real need of it.

Brattus · 12th June 2010, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

Surely, the only reason people claim it exists is because they have a need for it?

I think it has more to do with a form of escape from the everyday ins and outs of life. Than of any kind of real need.

That of course only applies to the belief in the paranormal since all things paranormal don't really exist anyway.

Stray Cat · 12th June 2010, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Brattus

I think it has more to do with a form of escape from the everyday ins and outs of life. Than of any kind of real need.

Well really any kind of perceived need for something that doesn't exist isn't going to be a real need. Otherwise a real solution to address the real need would be sought instead of relying upon made up stuff.

Need: I need warmth
Solution: I turn on the fire

Need: I need to eat
Solution: I cook

Need: I need to have my soul saved
Solution: I pray

Spot the odd one out.

Brattus · 12th June 2010, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

Well really any kind of perceived need for something that doesn't exist isn't going to be a real need. Otherwise a real solution to address the real need would be sought instead of relying upon made up stuff.

Need: I need warmth
Solution: I turn on the fire

Need: I need to eat
Solution: I cook

Need: I need to have my soul saved
Solution: I pray

Spot the odd one out.

It's the cooking thing. Right?

Stray Cat · 12th June 2010, 06:03 PM

Mmmm.... maybe, if I was a breatharian

GrandMasterFox · 13th June 2010, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by Brattus

I mean we have been chugging along just fine without it.

Oh? Is that so?

We have no sick people who would benefit from miracle cures?

We cannot benefit from finding lost children?

We won't benefit from talking to the dead? That would make premeditated murder rates drop dramatically...

Originally Posted by Brattus

Just look at what the mere belief in the paranormal has done.
Countless wars, theft, murder and so on and so on.

Likewise, pursuit of science has given us any number of toxins, enviormental problems, weapons of mass destruction and a whole other bunch of bad stuff.

But guns don't kill people, people kill people
and science doesn't kill people, people kill people.

If there is something that is paranormal and real (contradiction here, I know) and we get some actual proper evidence for it, we should go after it with everything we got.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 13th June 2010, 02:03 PM

If the paranormal were real (let's assume this for our purposes), there would be a lot of good that could come from it and a lot of bad.

If psychic powers were real, that would be awesome- but the government wouldn't even need to tap our phones. They'd just hire Sylvia Browne. The FBI and the police would be right in our heads instead of just in our living rooms. The SATs and the lottery would have to be canceled because cheating on them would be so easy. And the incredible personal violation of having another human be able to see every single memory you have just by looking at you- that would be terrible.

Taking a vacation would be a lot easier if woo were real. Instead of going to a travel agency to get tickets, you'd teleport. This, however, would also make burglary very easy and untraceable.

And so on.

If woo were real, it would make life easier and cooler and funner in some ways but much harder and more complicated in others.

Stray Cat · 13th June 2010, 04:16 PM

And as we already know that the only thing required to be able to counter the effects of woo is to have a sceptic close by, we could sell our services to non sceptics under the trade name of Scepti-guard™ to protect people's thoughts and homes from invasion by those who would use their super powers for evil... We'd be rich I tell you.... rich!!!

Brattus · 13th June 2010, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by GrandMasterFox

Oh? Is that so?

We have no sick people who would benefit from miracle cures?

Who decides who gets these cures and who doesn't?
Rich sick people would get better till they ran out of money.
Being sick is just one of the prices we pay for being alive.
Some sick people even enjoy the painful days because the pain tells them they are still alive.

Originally Posted by GrandMasterFox

We cannot benefit from finding lost children?

Who's children get found and who's doesn't?
It's not just the rich who get their children taken. We could also come together more as human beings in the community's where we live.
Talk to one another. Share our lives with our neighbors.
That would help slow down child abductions and it could really happen in the real world.

Originally Posted by GrandMasterFox

We won't benefit from talking to the dead? That would make premeditated murder rates drop dramatically...

You know this how? If there was life after death then how do you know the dead wouldn't want their loved ones dead so they could all be together in deadville?
Life is only important to the living. Why would the dead care about it?

What could the dead tell us that we don't already know?
You are assuming that dead people can see the future or read minds.
Why would the dead need to see into the future? The dead have no future.
Why would you think the dead could read minds? Seen it a movie or read it in a book perhaps?
The people who made the movie or wrote the book don't know any more about after death than any body else does.

Originally Posted by GrandMasterFox

Likewise, pursuit of science has given us any number of toxins, enviormental problems, weapons of mass destruction and a whole other bunch of bad stuff.

And a whole bunch of very good stuff!!!!!!!!!
All of which is very real!!!!!!!!!!
You can have all the skeptics in a room you want but the lamp will still work every time! Electricity will still flow to the filament in a vacuum and make it burn bright every time you hit the light switch.
Makes no difference if you don't believe it will work.
Real things just are!

Originally Posted by GrandMasterFox

But guns don't kill people, people kill people
and science doesn't kill people, people kill people.

If there is something that is paranormal and real (contradiction here, I know) and we get some actual proper evidence for it, we should go after it with everything we got.

You don't think people wouldn't be offin' each other right and left with paranormal powers if such things were real?

gnome · 13th June 2010, 06:12 PM

Count me among the ones that could find lots of great uses for real paranormal powers. Used carefully but wisely, amazing benefits could be reaped.

GrandMasterFox · 15th June 2010, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Brattus

Who decides who gets these cures and who doesn't?
Rich sick people would get better till they ran out of money.
Being sick is just one of the prices we pay for being alive.
Some sick people even enjoy the painful days because the pain tells them they are still alive.

We don't know what paranormal abilities would become real, we don't know how they work and can't project on them. Debates on that nature is completely pointless.

My comment in response to your assertion:

Quote:

I think the real question is is the paranormal even needed.

I mean we have been chugging along just fine without it.

The question is not how healing treatments would work, you asked if we have a need for it. We do. Period.
If our current health system is sufficient why do we still research medicine scientifically?

Because we are looking for imporvements and it doesn't matter where these imporvements come from as long as they work and are backed up by evidence (which paranormal currently doesn't, but this is a "what if").

Quote:

Who's children get found and who's doesn't?
It's not just the rich who get their children taken. We could also come together more as human beings in the community's where we live.
Talk to one another. Share our lives with our neighbors.
That would help slow down child abductions and it could really happen in the real world.

I'm sorry, but I really have no idea what you are talking about. Are you saying that we are better off today when a child gets kidnapped and we have no way of finding out what happened?

Again, there are modern day scientific developments for this problem.
Therfore we have a need for it.

And the "who decides" question is just plain stupid. Who decides if 2 children get kidnapped, which one the police will try to find?

Quote:

You know this how? If there was life after death then how do you know the dead wouldn't want their loved ones dead so they could all be together in deadville?
Life is only important to the living. Why would the dead care about it?

Sorry, but no. You cannot say that you think the entire process is pointless because some imaginary limitations you decided on may or may not exist.

The question you asked isn't if we're ever going to realistically achieve any of this (as we both agree paranormal is rubbish), but whether there is even a point to try.

The question is if we have a real life properly tested John Edwards or any of his ilk, the assumption is that their ability works as they say it does.
Otherwise, you need to clarify exactly on which form of paranormal abilities you are talking about before the discussion moves on.

Quote:

What could the dead tell us that we don't already know?
You are assuming that dead people can see the future or read minds.

Wrong. I never said either of the two.
For start, the dead can tell us who killed them, won't they?
This reduces the ways you can kill a person and get away with it.
You will have to kill your victim so he can't see you and that reduces crime rates dramatically.

Not to mention that just intergoating various victims could squash conspiracy theories (like victims of 9\11) or preventing people from being killed in order to silence them (they talk anyway).

Even without making stuff up, just the very nature of the possiblity of knowing a person's history has various useful uses for us.

Quote:

And a whole bunch of very good stuff!!!!!!!!!
<snipped>
Real things just are!

Let's make it clear - I'm not supporting any woo nonesense.
I am well aware of the difference between real or not.
You said that paranormal by definition leads to horrible stuff.

I simply mentioned that you cannot disqualify technology just because some people abused it. Paranormal would be exactly alike.

We discourage paranormal because it doesn't work, not because we don't need it or it leads to horrible stuff.

Quote:

You don't think people wouldn't be offin' each other right and left with paranormal powers if such things were real?

Tough question to answer.

First, what is the ability in question? It's tough to say.
If all I can do is dowsing or healing I can't see how that can be used to kill people.

Now mind control \ teleportation \ thought-killing is a different story.

Second, it also greatly varies on whether this is an ability for one person or something that can be replicated on mass.

12th June 2010, 03:39 PM	#1
Brattus Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: The bowels of death and despair Posts: 1,223	Is the paranormal needed? I've read a lot questions on this forum concerning the paranormal. Most are of the vain of whether it's real or not. I think the real question is is the paranormal even needed. I mean we have been chugging along just fine without it. Just look at what the mere belief in the paranormal has done. Countless wars, theft, murder and so on and so on. Do we really need to read each others thoughts? Some say crime rates would dramatically fall. I say we would just wait for them to go to sleep before we killed. What would the dead have to say that we didn't already know? That our lost loved ones wished us well? That our mothers loved us? What real good could come from knowing the future? Since we would already know then what would be the point of anything? My vote is no the paranormal is not needed. There is so much beauty and wonder and mystery in our world as it really is, why make up a fake one?
	__________________ Whatever Brattus types is correct. - Brattus Anyone who quotes themselves is way cool - Brattus Last edited by Brattus; 12th June 2010 at 04:02 PM.

12th June 2010, 03:48 PM	#2
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038	Originally Posted by Brattus I read a lot questions on this forum concerning the paranormal. Most are of the vain of whether it's real or not. I think the real question is is the paranormal even needed. I mean we have been chugging along just fine without it. Just look at what the mere belief in the paranormal has done. Countless wars, theft, murder and so on and so on. Do we really need to read each others thoughts? Some say crime rates would dramatically fall. I say we would just wait for them to go to sleep before we killed. What would the dead have to say that we didn't already know? That our lost loved ones wished us well? That our mothers loved us? What real good could come from knowing the future? Since we would already know then what would be the point of anything? My vote is no the paranormal is not needed. There is so much beauty and wonder and mystery in our world as it really is, why make up a fake one? It is as unnecessary as it is non-existent.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,038

12th June 2010, 04:22 PM	#3
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by Brattus I think the real question is is the paranormal even needed. Got to stop you here. I totally disagree. Whether the paranormal exists is a far more important question than if it's needed as long as there are people claiming it exists.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

12th June 2010, 04:25 PM	#4
Stray Cat Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Land That Time Forgot Posts: 6,510	Surely, the only reason people claim it exists is because they have a need for it?
	__________________ It's only my madness that stops me from going insane!

12th June 2010, 05:07 PM	#5
Brattus Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: The bowels of death and despair Posts: 1,223	Originally Posted by Sledge Got to stop you here. I totally disagree. Whether the paranormal exists is a far more important question than if it's needed as long as there are people claiming it exists. Well I guess since it doesn't exist then there's no real need of it.
	__________________ Whatever Brattus types is correct. - Brattus Anyone who quotes themselves is way cool - Brattus

12th June 2010, 05:12 PM	#6
Brattus Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: The bowels of death and despair Posts: 1,223	Originally Posted by Stray Cat Surely, the only reason people claim it exists is because they have a need for it? I think it has more to do with a form of escape from the everyday ins and outs of life. Than of any kind of real need. That of course only applies to the belief in the paranormal since all things paranormal don't really exist anyway.
	__________________ Whatever Brattus types is correct. - Brattus Anyone who quotes themselves is way cool - Brattus

12th June 2010, 05:33 PM	#7
Stray Cat Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Land That Time Forgot Posts: 6,510	Originally Posted by Brattus I think it has more to do with a form of escape from the everyday ins and outs of life. Than of any kind of real need. Well really any kind of perceived need for something that doesn't exist isn't going to be a real need. Otherwise a real solution to address the real need would be sought instead of relying upon made up stuff. Need: I need warmth Solution: I turn on the fire Need: I need to eat Solution: I cook Need: I need to have my soul saved Solution: I pray Spot the odd one out.
	__________________ It's only my madness that stops me from going insane!

12th June 2010, 05:53 PM	#8
Brattus Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: The bowels of death and despair Posts: 1,223	Originally Posted by Stray Cat Well really any kind of perceived need for something that doesn't exist isn't going to be a real need. Otherwise a real solution to address the real need would be sought instead of relying upon made up stuff. Need: I need warmth Solution: I turn on the fire Need: I need to eat Solution: I cook Need: I need to have my soul saved Solution: I pray Spot the odd one out. It's the cooking thing. Right?
	__________________ Whatever Brattus types is correct. - Brattus Anyone who quotes themselves is way cool - Brattus

12th June 2010, 06:03 PM	#9
Stray Cat Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Land That Time Forgot Posts: 6,510	Mmmm.... maybe, if I was a breatharian
	__________________ It's only my madness that stops me from going insane!

13th June 2010, 12:42 AM	#10
GrandMasterFox Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,315	Originally Posted by Brattus I mean we have been chugging along just fine without it. Oh? Is that so? We have no sick people who would benefit from miracle cures? We cannot benefit from finding lost children? We won't benefit from talking to the dead? That would make premeditated murder rates drop dramatically... Originally Posted by Brattus Just look at what the mere belief in the paranormal has done. Countless wars, theft, murder and so on and so on. Likewise, pursuit of science has given us any number of toxins, enviormental problems, weapons of mass destruction and a whole other bunch of bad stuff. But guns don't kill people, people kill people and science doesn't kill people, people kill people. If there is something that is paranormal and real (contradiction here, I know) and we get some actual proper evidence for it, we should go after it with everything we got.

13th June 2010, 02:03 PM	#11
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	If the paranormal were real (let's assume this for our purposes), there would be a lot of good that could come from it and a lot of bad. If psychic powers were real, that would be awesome- but the government wouldn't even need to tap our phones. They'd just hire Sylvia Browne. The FBI and the police would be right in our heads instead of just in our living rooms. The SATs and the lottery would have to be canceled because cheating on them would be so easy. And the incredible personal violation of having another human be able to see every single memory you have just by looking at you- that would be terrible. Taking a vacation would be a lot easier if woo were real. Instead of going to a travel agency to get tickets, you'd teleport. This, however, would also make burglary very easy and untraceable. And so on. If woo were real, it would make life easier and cooler and funner in some ways but much harder and more complicated in others.
	__________________ Help Robert out- please visit (Stop) Sylvia Browne ! StopJohnofGod.blogspot.com

13th June 2010, 04:16 PM	#12
Stray Cat Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Land That Time Forgot Posts: 6,510	And as we already know that the only thing required to be able to counter the effects of woo is to have a sceptic close by, we could sell our services to non sceptics under the trade name of Scepti-guard™ to protect people's thoughts and homes from invasion by those who would use their super powers for evil... We'd be rich I tell you.... rich!!!
	__________________ It's only my madness that stops me from going insane!

13th June 2010, 05:33 PM	#13
Brattus Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: The bowels of death and despair Posts: 1,223	Originally Posted by GrandMasterFox Oh? Is that so? We have no sick people who would benefit from miracle cures? Who decides who gets these cures and who doesn't? Rich sick people would get better till they ran out of money. Being sick is just one of the prices we pay for being alive. Some sick people even enjoy the painful days because the pain tells them they are still alive. Originally Posted by GrandMasterFox We cannot benefit from finding lost children? Who's children get found and who's doesn't? It's not just the rich who get their children taken. We could also come together more as human beings in the community's where we live. Talk to one another. Share our lives with our neighbors. That would help slow down child abductions and it could really happen in the real world. Originally Posted by GrandMasterFox We won't benefit from talking to the dead? That would make premeditated murder rates drop dramatically... You know this how? If there was life after death then how do you know the dead wouldn't want their loved ones dead so they could all be together in deadville? Life is only important to the living. Why would the dead care about it? What could the dead tell us that we don't already know? You are assuming that dead people can see the future or read minds. Why would the dead need to see into the future? The dead have no future. Why would you think the dead could read minds? Seen it a movie or read it in a book perhaps? The people who made the movie or wrote the book don't know any more about after death than any body else does. Originally Posted by GrandMasterFox Likewise, pursuit of science has given us any number of toxins, enviormental problems, weapons of mass destruction and a whole other bunch of bad stuff. And a whole bunch of very good stuff!!!!!!!!! All of which is very real!!!!!!!!!! You can have all the skeptics in a room you want but the lamp will still work every time! Electricity will still flow to the filament in a vacuum and make it burn bright every time you hit the light switch. Makes no difference if you don't believe it will work. Real things just are! Originally Posted by GrandMasterFox But guns don't kill people, people kill people and science doesn't kill people, people kill people. If there is something that is paranormal and real (contradiction here, I know) and we get some actual proper evidence for it, we should go after it with everything we got. You don't think people wouldn't be offin' each other right and left with paranormal powers if such things were real?
	__________________ Whatever Brattus types is correct. - Brattus Anyone who quotes themselves is way cool - Brattus

13th June 2010, 06:12 PM	#14
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,873	Count me among the ones that could find lots of great uses for real paranormal powers. Used carefully but wisely, amazing benefits could be reaped.
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,873	__________________

15th June 2010, 09:59 AM	#15
GrandMasterFox Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,315	Originally Posted by Brattus Who decides who gets these cures and who doesn't? Rich sick people would get better till they ran out of money. Being sick is just one of the prices we pay for being alive. Some sick people even enjoy the painful days because the pain tells them they are still alive. We don't know what paranormal abilities would become real, we don't know how they work and can't project on them. Debates on that nature is completely pointless. My comment in response to your assertion: Quote: I think the real question is is the paranormal even needed. I mean we have been chugging along just fine without it. The question is not how healing treatments would work, you asked if we have a need for it. We do. Period. If our current health system is sufficient why do we still research medicine scientifically? Because we are looking for imporvements and it doesn't matter where these imporvements come from as long as they work and are backed up by evidence (which paranormal currently doesn't, but this is a "what if"). Quote: Who's children get found and who's doesn't? It's not just the rich who get their children taken. We could also come together more as human beings in the community's where we live. Talk to one another. Share our lives with our neighbors. That would help slow down child abductions and it could really happen in the real world. I'm sorry, but I really have no idea what you are talking about. Are you saying that we are better off today when a child gets kidnapped and we have no way of finding out what happened? Again, there are modern day scientific developments for this problem. Therfore we have a need for it. And the "who decides" question is just plain stupid. Who decides if 2 children get kidnapped, which one the police will try to find? Quote: You know this how? If there was life after death then how do you know the dead wouldn't want their loved ones dead so they could all be together in deadville? Life is only important to the living. Why would the dead care about it? Sorry, but no. You cannot say that you think the entire process is pointless because some imaginary limitations you decided on may or may not exist. The question you asked isn't if we're ever going to realistically achieve any of this (as we both agree paranormal is rubbish), but whether there is even a point to try. The question is if we have a real life properly tested John Edwards or any of his ilk, the assumption is that their ability works as they say it does. Otherwise, you need to clarify exactly on which form of paranormal abilities you are talking about before the discussion moves on. Quote: What could the dead tell us that we don't already know? You are assuming that dead people can see the future or read minds. Wrong. I never said either of the two. For start, the dead can tell us who killed them, won't they? This reduces the ways you can kill a person and get away with it. You will have to kill your victim so he can't see you and that reduces crime rates dramatically. Not to mention that just intergoating various victims could squash conspiracy theories (like victims of 9\11) or preventing people from being killed in order to silence them (they talk anyway). Even without making stuff up, just the very nature of the possiblity of knowing a person's history has various useful uses for us. Quote: And a whole bunch of very good stuff!!!!!!!!! <snipped> Real things just are! Let's make it clear - I'm not supporting any woo nonesense. I am well aware of the difference between real or not. You said that paranormal by definition leads to horrible stuff. I simply mentioned that you cannot disqualify technology just because some people abused it. Paranormal would be exactly alike. We discourage paranormal because it doesn't work, not because we don't need it or it leads to horrible stuff. Quote: You don't think people wouldn't be offin' each other right and left with paranormal powers if such things were real? Tough question to answer. First, what is the ability in question? It's tough to say. If all I can do is dowsing or healing I can't see how that can be used to kill people. Now mind control \ teleportation \ thought-killing is a different story. Second, it also greatly varies on whether this is an ability for one person or something that can be replicated on mass.