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EeneyMinnieMoe · 20th June 2010, 10:35 PM

Yes, it's about cell phone use. Please play Dear Abby to me, I'm genuinely interested in other people's input about this.

I had to see a professor at the college I attend after class in her office hours. She also needed to see a boy in my class called Dan, who was to show her how to use a basic computer program to email the whole class (she is an older woman and quite computer illiterate).

Dan and I went to her office. She decided she wanted to see Dan first. They talked about other things first. I joined into the conversation. She went off to do her own stuff. Dan and I made small talk about a few things. Then she got to business. He patiently explained it to her. She didn't get it. He tried again. This went on for a long while. While she and Dan were sitting at the computer, I sat very patiently on a chair about a foot or two away from them, waiting for my turn. I did have a big favor to ask of her so I didn't want to offend her in any way.

I got a text message from a friend. It was about something fairly important and she needed my response right away. Dan was still explaining the program to the teacher. I interrupted them and said "I'm sorry, I just got a text message on my phone. It's about something important. May I respond to it?"

The teacher and Dan both looked up from the screen at me and looked at me with a confused expression. They exchanged confused looks and then looked back at me. The teacher asked "Why...are you asking me? What do you mean? Of course you can".

I awkwardly bumbled "Well...I'm in your office...in your presence. It would be impolite to text in front of you and Dan without your permission. "

She looked at me rather baffled, shrugged and said "I don't care. It's fine. If you need to make a call, just step outside the office and come back in when you are finished". Dan gave me a weird look, shrugged and said "Uhm, I don't care. Go ahead." And they returned to what they were doing.

I later mentioned this to my parents in conversation about something else. They were both stunned.

My mother and father both said that I shouldn't have even asked the professor's permission, I should have just not texted in her office. They were appalled that I'd text in a teacher's work room and in her presence- and a foot or two away from her and another person, to boot. They said they would have understood if I had done it while sitting across the room from her- and even that would have been pushing it. They said I should have excused myself and completely left the room- or waited until my turn with the teacher was over before responding to my friend.

I responded that the professor had said I shouldn't have even asked her permission, I should just have texted!

She didn't even understand why I was asking!

They were shocked and said that Americans have no manners whatsoever and that this would have been unacceptable in the home country.

Thoughts?

MetalPig · 20th June 2010, 10:59 PM

It depends on the nature of the meeting I'm in. If it's formal, my phone would be off or in silent mode, and anyone trying to reach me would have to wait until after the meeting.
In a more informal setting, like your meeting with the professor and Dan, I would have acted exactly the same as you did.

Richard Masters · 20th June 2010, 11:17 PM

Professors are less formal in the United States. You can almost speak freely with them as if they were colleagues. I've been told that this is not possible in countries like Italy.

Cultural conventions aside, your professor was absorbed learning the intricacies of spam. As long as you were not interrupting, or drawing attention to yourself, I don't see a problem.

Wolfman · 20th June 2010, 11:28 PM

As reflected by the answers you've gotten, the real answer is: "It depends"

Problem is, "it depends" on the specific people you're dealing with. Some will consider it impolite. Others will consider it strange to even ask or raise the issue. Heck, in China, people will answer a phone and talk to others right in the middle of a meeting...and everyone else will just ignore them and continue with their own discussion. Leaving the room to talk to someone on the phone would be a little strange, indicating that you are talking about something that you don't want others to hear.

Richard Masters · 20th June 2010, 11:35 PM

Additionally, (1) you weren't expected to pay attention to the computer lesson; (2) if your professor is computer illiterate, she probably can't tell the difference between texting and using your phone as a calculator, looking up an address, researching a definition, or even typing a note for yourself on your phone.

Democracy Simulator · 20th June 2010, 11:43 PM

I think you did the right thing.

You asked for permission to text from the only parties who have any just cause to be inconvenienced or otherwise put out by this action.

They accepted your request in good faith.

I think this highlights the problem with your parent's reasoning:

Quote:

They were shocked and said that Americans have no manners whatsoever and that this would have been unacceptable in the home country.

This suggests that they believe that the etiquette of their home country is more appropriate than 'American etiquette' when working/studying in America. I'm not sure why anyone would expect this to be the case as etiquette varies from culture to culture - American etiquette is 'most right' in America and your parents etiquette is most appropriate in their home country. There is not one over-arching standard that trumps all others.

Morrigan · 21st June 2010, 01:06 AM

Your parents are overreacting. You asked permission, which was very polite anyway. Had I been the professor (I do know what texting is :P), I would simply have said "sure, go ahead".

phantomb · 21st June 2010, 01:29 AM

I would have responded the same way as that professor and student. I guess some people are very formal, but unless you're in a movie theater or actively in conversation with someone, I can't think of many situations where I would expect someone to ask permission to respond to a text message.

At most I would have butted in to say something like "I have to make an important call while you guys are talking. It'll just take a moment.", and then withdrawn.

arthwollipot · 21st June 2010, 01:33 AM

"Sorry, I have to take this, it'll only take a minute or two." I certainly would not have waited for permission.

GrandMasterFox · 21st June 2010, 01:41 AM

Manners are complete BS.

Your teacher was not offended. Just in case he is someone who would be bothered, you asked for permission. That is the end of story.

Rasmus · 21st June 2010, 02:46 AM

Uh ...

they way I see it, you just happened top be in the same room, waiting for your turn to talk to the prof. Why would it be impolite to text?

You were not part of any ongoing conversation, you had nobody's attention, nobody had your attention, etc, pp.

I wouldn't have asked permission, either. Also, you read the initial message without asking permission, right? How can it be polite and okay to read a message, yet impolite to respond? (Unless, of course, you should have set things up in away that you could tell the message was important without looking at it at all ...)

Just to make you feel guilty: You probably caused more of a hassle when you interrupted them to ask if it was okay to text then you would have just texting ...

(And, yes, I would have asked permission to step outside for an actual call. But I would have never known it was important, since I wouldn't have taken any incoming calls at the time ...)

Aepervius · 21st June 2010, 03:27 AM

Usually in such a case if the meeting is not extremely important and you are not the speaker, you excuse yourself , the same way you would go to toilet, and get outside, without explaining the nature of your action.

BTW it is "Settle a very minor etiquette dispute between my parents and me"
Usually out of politesse one always cite the other party before citing one self

. / DUCK

Ocelot · 21st June 2010, 03:36 AM

The point is disruption. Firing off a quick text can often cause less disruption than asking permission.

Wolfman · 21st June 2010, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by Aepervius

BTW it is "Settle a very minor etiquette dispute between my parents and me"
Usually out of politesse one always cite the other party before citing one self

. / DUCK

This is obviously off-topic. If you want to "Settle a very minor grammar dispute between EeeneyMinnieMoe and me", then you should start a new thread to do so.

Richard Masters · 21st June 2010, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by Ocelot

The point is disruption. Firing off a quick text can often cause less disruption than asking permission.

Precisely.

Meadmaker · 21st June 2010, 05:01 AM

I agree that the important point is disruption.

The all too common problem with cell phones is that, during a face to face conversation, a cell phone rings and the person whose phone rang takes the call, leaving the other person sitting next to them twiddling his thumbs waiting for a different conversation to end. This sends the message that it's perfectly ok to waste the time of the person to whom one is actually with, in order to accomodate a disruption from a distant source. One should always give priority to the person who is actually present with you.

Depending on the nature of your job, it might be impossible to make a complete, blanket, rule that you should not answer a call or respond to a text while engaged in conversation with another, but all things being equal, the person you are with gets priority over the person trying to call in. For example, in my particular job, it is not at all uncommon to be in a meeting and hear a cell phone ring. The person whose phone rang looks at his phone to see the caller ID mesage and then either closes the phone or says, "Excuse me. It's from a customer." Because of the nature of our work, everyone understands that the face to face conversation gets shoved to the back burner. However, if it is another coworker that is calling, it would be very rude to take the call.

In your position, you were not actively engaged in any conversation, and would not have been disrupting anyone by responding to the text. It seems to me that you were waiting for something to happen and were only coincidentally in the same room with other people. Therefore, the best action would be to simply respond and not draw any attention to yourself. What you actually did doesn't strke me as bad manners, though. It's hard to fault someone for asking permission to do something that might be perceived as a breach of etiquette.

Of course, tone of voice plays a big role, too, and body language. I can picture a situation where the exact conversation from the OP occurs, but the meaning is extremely different. Suppose the person waiting was irritated that he is being made to wait while someone else explains email. He is shifting and squirming, and wears an expression of irritation. Then, a text message comes in and, in a voice dripping with sarcasm, says, "I'm sorry, I just got a text message on my phone. It's about something important. May I respond to it?"

The intent of the speaker in that situation would be to say, "Hey, you guys are really wasting my time here. Do you mind if I do something worthwhile while I wait for you?" In other words, I have seen people use feigned politeness to actually send a very rude message. Needless to say, that would be a bad.

Summary: It sounds like you did the right thing, although if you could have handled the situation without interrupting them at all, that would have been even better.

Sledge · 21st June 2010, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by Democracy Simulator

I think you did the right thing.

You asked for permission to text from the only parties who have any just cause to be inconvenienced or otherwise put out by this action.

I disagree that he did the right thing. By asking he inconvenienced them more than if he'd just responded to the text. If I'm reading the OP right, neither person was speaking to him or paying any attention to him at that point. If he'd received a phone call or needed to make one in response to the text message, I agree that it would have been polite to say "Excuse me, I just need to take this/make a quick call, I'll be back in a minute," and leave the room.

I think etiquette has become a far more situational matter than it was in the past. Things like mobile phones have created social issues that simply didn't exist even a generation ago, leaving us to make our own minds up as to what is rude and what isn't. Kind of interesting that we're being left to make our own minds up as to what is acceptable rather than having it dictated by formal books of rules.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 21st June 2010, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Rasmus

I wouldn't have asked permission, either. Also, you read the initial message without asking permission, right? How can it be polite and okay to read a message, yet impolite to respond? (Unless, of course, you should have set things up in away that you could tell the message was important without looking at it at all ...)

Well, I was just a foot or two from the professor. If I had whipped out the phone to text in her presence, she might think I was inconsiderate. She's a teacher, you behave even more formally towards her than towards other adults. She might have also gotten the impression that I'm one of those airheaded young people that are always glued to the phone and might not have treated me very seriously from that point on. And as a guest in someone's office during their office hours, you aren't there on your own time and in your own space (or in a neutral space) and so you can't do your own personal things there.

I heard my phone give off that little ring that means that a text has come in. I waited a few minutes and weighed whether to look at it or not. When the teacher still wasn't done with the boy, I decided to quickly sneak a look at it while they were both still absorbed in what they were doing and probably wouldn't look in my direction.

If it had been nothing, I'd obviously have put the phone away right after reading it.

Yes, I think I did disturb them more by asking than if I had just texted. However, they weren't in the least offended by being asked- just confused.

phantomb · 22nd June 2010, 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

Well, I was just a foot or two from the professor. If I had whipped out the phone to text in her presence, she might think I was inconsiderate.

Well, the general consensus here seems to be that she probably wouldn't think it inconsiderate, especially if you mentioned that you had to deal with an important message for a few moments and stepped back. We can confirm that this is true by her actual reaction, and furthermore, since her reaction can probably be considered typical of professors at your school, you should safely assume that most of your professors will not be expecting that level of politeness in the future.

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

She's a teacher, you behave even more formally towards her than towards other adults.

Teachers definitely deserve respect. On top of the fact that they provide an important service to society often for modest pay, they're the local experts in the skills and knowledge that you are working to master. But let's not forget that in this relationship you are the one paying her salary through your tuition, and that her boss and future prospective students will be going over what you write in your assessments (I assume your school has these).

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

She might have also gotten the impression that I'm one of those airheaded young people that are always glued to the phone and might not have treated me very seriously from that point on.

That is a legitimate concern, yes.

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

And as a guest in someone's office during their office hours, you aren't there on your own time and in your own space (or in a neutral space) and so you can't do your own personal things there.

Of course. However, you should again note that your tuition pays her salary, and that the job description that goes along with that salary likely includes a certain number of office hours for students in your course. You are paying her to be there.

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

I heard my phone give off that little ring that means that a text has come in. I waited a few minutes and weighed whether to look at it or not. When the teacher still wasn't done with the boy, I decided to quickly sneak a look at it while they were both still absorbed in what they were doing and probably wouldn't look in my direction.

If it had been nothing, I'd obviously have put the phone away right after reading it.

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is? I myself have an office at my workplace and I really couldn't care less what people do in it while waiting to talk to me. They could read a book for all I care. If it's not distracting me from the person I'm currently talking to, why would I care?

Rrose Selavy · 22nd June 2010, 03:39 AM

Maybe you should have simply switched off your cellphone before you started the meeting. Then you would have avoided the entire issue.
Any calls or reading of texts can be distracting.

Cain · 22nd June 2010, 03:42 AM

I can tell a lot of the above answers are wrong because they're too long.

No, it's not impolite to reply to a text while she's dealing with a computer problem. It was probably impolite of her to have Dan help her first, unless your issue would have taken longer to resolve, which I doubt.

I may have mentioned this before, but one day I was in the graduate adviser's office. His phone rang, he said he had to take it, and I offered to step outside. "No." Afterward he said it was kind of me to ask -- most people don't give a ****.

Ocelot · 22nd June 2010, 03:42 AM

There's an important factor that nobody has touched on. Were you nekkid?

If not then a brief "excuse me" might be sufficient. However if you were nekkid then I suspect that no course of action would be appropriate to avoid a social faux pas.

Now moving on, how to deal with an unwanted erection on public transport when it's your stop.

Dave Rogers · 22nd June 2010, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

Well, I was just a foot or two from the professor. If I had whipped out the phone to text in her presence, she might think I was inconsiderate. She's a teacher, you behave even more formally towards her than towards other adults. She might have also gotten the impression that I'm one of those airheaded young people that are always glued to the phone and might not have treated me very seriously from that point on. And as a guest in someone's office during their office hours, you aren't there on your own time and in your own space (or in a neutral space) and so you can't do your own personal things there.

I agree with all the above. And there's a meta-issue with respect to etiquette here, which is that several posters seem to think it's a breach of etiquette to enquire of somebody as to what they consider proper etiquette in a specific instance. If that were true, it would be impossible to behave correctly. If anything, I suspect your teacher has got so used to casual low-level impoliteness that it came as a pleasant surprise that someone was actually considering her reactions.

Dave

Alferd_Packer · 22nd June 2010, 05:44 AM

Did you talk out loud as you texted back?

OH. EM. GEE. DOT DOT DOT. DOUBLE YOU. AICH OH SPACE EFF AY ARE TEE EEE DEE QUESTION MARK

commandlinegamer · 22nd June 2010, 06:41 AM

Turn off your phone before you go into the meeting or leave it outside. No disruption.

For general etiquette questions Miss Manners is your friend; she's been providing reams of good advice for years.

http://www.missmanners.com/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...032501837.html

(The newest postings in the above link required registration - free)

EvilSmurf · 22nd June 2010, 06:47 AM

If I were in your situation I would not have even asked for permission. Your professor was engaged with someone else at the time, the text was important and your professor was probably going to be engaged with Dan for quite some time. If your professor was ready for you, you could have easily dropped what you were doing and been ready to start with what it is you were doing with your professor. Also, what you were doing was likely not going to be disruptive. Well, not disruptive assuming your phone doesn't make a noise every time you hit a key.

Dorian Gray · 22nd June 2010, 05:07 PM

You should have left your professor and Dan alone. You were acting like some type of blocker just then. She obviously wanted him to stuff her inbox.

TheKiwiSkeptic · 22nd June 2010, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dorian Gray

You should have left your professor and Dan alone. You were acting like some type of blocker just then. She obviously wanted him to stuff her inbox.

Ha, ha, ha... Nothing discrete about that remark.

Naddig74 · 23rd June 2010, 03:31 AM

The etiquette surrounding mobile phones, or more precisely certain people's perception that using your phone is somehow rude, is ridiculous.

If the person who texted you had knocked on the office door and said 'Eenie, can I speak to you for a minute?' there would be no issue. Either you'd be free to step outside and chat to them for a minute, or you wouldn't.

It's just the 'we fear change' mentality that makes some (older) people object to mobile phones. How is using your phone on the bus/train any more annoying to other transport users than talking to a person sat next to you? It isn't, but the Vocal Minority have decided it is.

We've invented a device the size of a matchbox that allows anyone on earth to contact anyone else anywhere else on earth (within limits of signal coverage obviously) and some people think that's a bad thing?

Foolmewunz · 23rd June 2010, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by Naddig74

The etiquette surrounding mobile phones, or more precisely certain people's perception that using your phone is somehow rude, is ridiculous.

I guess you think the same thing of land lines? It is rude to have a conversation on any type of phone when you're with someone. It says, "Hey, you're not that important to me, so I'll take this call and you'll understand and not fail me, right?"

Quote:

If the person who texted you had knocked on the office door and said 'Eenie, can I speak to you for a minute?' there would be no issue. Either you'd be free to step outside and chat to them for a minute, or you wouldn't.

Just how would the person who texted her know where she was? She was in a teacher's office, I believe.
Do you actually have friends who'd knock on the office of a meeting you're in (meaning a "meeting" e.g. with a teacher or a boss/co-workerl), and say, "Hey, can Naddig come out?"

Quote:

It's just the 'we fear change' mentality that makes some (older) people object to mobile phones. How is using your phone on the bus/train any more annoying to other transport users than talking to a person sat next to you?

No it isn't. You'd be surprised how hip some of us old geezers are. And no one objects to people having conversations on their mobile phones where I live. The problem is the morons who think they're impressing you, (not realizing that WE ALL HAVE mobile phones, now) and/or don't realize that there are little tiny amplification devices and that they do NOT have to shout into the phone.
On my average commute (via MTR, or "underground choo choo train thingamajigger" as we call it back at the home), there are ten to twelve people talking on their mobile, another three or four get calls during the commute, including me quite often (and I'm 60 you young whipper-snapper), and no one gives a damn.

But, last night one idiot sat there with his volume up all the way deleting SMS messages. At least five of us told him to STFU and turn the volume off - beep, kabing, beep, beep, plink. Rinse. Lather. Repeat. Through seventy-five messages! He got chewed out for it - by a younger person, not one of us withered old near-dead types.

Quote:

It isn't, but the Vocal Minority have decided it is.

You'll be posting evidence of either your major or minor premise in that sentence, then?

Quote:

We've invented a device the size of a matchbox that allows anyone on earth to contact anyone else anywhere else on earth (within limits of signal coverage obviously) and some people think that's a bad thing?

We've also invented a device the size of a matchbox that could blow up most of downtown Paris. Do we need to use it? And even if there is an appropriate use for it, do we need to use it all the time? As Groucho said to the man who had seven children which he explained away with "Well, Groucho, I guess I must really love my wife",....
"I love my cigar, too. But I take it out of my mouth sometimes."

I've had someone track me down and hand me a fax under the stall door in the men's room. Hey, we invented this fax thing... we should be available to everyone in the world, anywhere in the world, 24/7.

I have friends who I used to make dates with on say, Sunday, the 3rd. We'd say, "Sure, let's have drinks on Thursday. 8 o'clock. The Riviera." We'd be there if one or the other didn't call and change the plans.
Today? You leave the person on Sunday, and they immediatelly text you an appointment to meet on Thursday, which you accept. And you exchange phone conversations, emails, and SMS messages for the next three days, in cluding a forty-five minute exchange on Thursday that essentially consists of "Where are you?" "About five minutes." "Closer than before." "I'm just around the corner now." "Oh nvr mnd I c u." It's like landing a jet on a carrier deck with a team of six to guide it in.

So no, it's not an old fuddy-duddy generation not understanding. It's foolish younger people thinking that what they've grown up with is the only way things could ever be accomplished.

Now go to your room!

Foolmewunz · 23rd June 2010, 04:17 AM

Eeney, ya done right. But you might want to remind your parents that there are Innuit lands in America and one of the traditions of the Innuit is that when parents get too old to fend for themselves, they just float them out to sea on an ice floe.
(I have no idea if that's true or not, but it sure gets parents to stop being so damned judgmental.)

Naddig74 · 23rd June 2010, 04:48 AM