Which constitutional amendment is the most important?

KingMerv00 · 26th June 2010, 03:26 PM

The repeal of which amendment would bother you the most? Why?

(Only room for 20 poll options, sorry.)

Edit - Whoops, I suck. Tons of type-os and I screwed up the description of the ninth.

KingMerv00 · 26th June 2010, 04:02 PM

Someone seriously thought the right to own a gun was more important than the right not be be enslaved?

Darth Rotor · 26th June 2010, 04:18 PM

All of them are important. This is a dishonest question.

Beerina · 26th June 2010, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Someone seriously thought the right to own a gun was more important than the right not be be enslaved?

Ironically, some foolishly think it is the only thing that can preserve the others, when push comes to shove.

JoeTheJuggler · 26th June 2010, 04:22 PM

I said the First, but it really is a tough question. Also, the Constitution would not have been ratified without the simultaneous ratification of the Bill of Rights (1-10). I think those are thought of as a block for good reason.

MG1962 · 26th June 2010, 04:26 PM

Clearly the third is the most important. It has never been challenged in court, nor is there any evidence in 200 years of anyone trying to abuse it

defaultdotxbe · 26th June 2010, 05:17 PM

the first amendment is first for a reason (and the second is a close second)

BTW its not just speech and religion, its also press, assemble peacefully and petition for a redress of grievances (although most americans will not be able to name all 5 of those if you stop them on the street)

Tsukasa Buddha · 26th June 2010, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Ironically, some foolishly think it is the only thing that can preserve the others, when push comes to shove.

You go out shooting when you lose a Supreme Court case?

leftysergeant · 26th June 2010, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha

You go out shooting when you lose a Supreme Court case?

No, when the sitting president tells you that the next election has been cancelled and we all have to convert to Jainism.

KingMerv00 · 26th June 2010, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

All of them are important. This is a dishonest question.

I didn't say they weren't all important. In what way was I dishonest?

KingMerv00 · 26th June 2010, 10:58 PM

Can one of the 2nd amendment people please tell me what the hell you are thinking? I can understand that you think the second amendment is important but the MOST important? Are you friggin kidding me?

KingMerv00 · 26th June 2010, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

the first amendment is first for a reason (and the second is a close second)

Again I ask...what the hell?

Quote:

BTW its not just speech and religion, its also press, assemble peacefully and petition for a redress of grievances (although most americans will not be able to name all 5 of those if you stop them on the street)

Yes I know. I was just giving a brief summary.

Bob Blaylock · 26th June 2010, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Someone seriously thought the right to own a gun was more important than the right not be be enslaved?

The Second Amendment is what protects all the others. It's not nearly as easy to enslave someone who has a gun, as it is to enslave someone who does not.

It is well worth noting that the earliest “gun control” laws in the United States were specifically aimed at blacks, shortly after slavery was abolished. As it was no longer legal to keep them in slavery, laws were implemented prohibiting them from owning arms, in order to assure that they could still be oppressed and abused by those who remained armed.

KingMerv00 · 26th June 2010, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

The Second Amendment is what protects all the others.

No, that would be the courts. When was the last time anyone used a gun to protect their Constitutional rights?

Quote:

It's not nearly as easy to enslave someone who has a gun, as it is to enslave someone who does not.

And if I start shipping in slaves from other countries?

jhunter1163 · 27th June 2010, 12:30 AM

No one but me thought that giving the vote to half of all Americans was important?

Mark R · 27th June 2010, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

It's not nearly as easy to enslave someone who has a gun, as it is to enslave someone who does not.

Your point taken, but it is also hard to enslave someone who has the right to speak out against that enslavement, which is part of the importance of the First Amendment. Freedom of speech makes it difficult to marginalize a group because they have the power to speak out. It acts like a safety valve that prevents violence from becoming a necessary competent. I am not going to argue it always works, but I think it has been an essential factor in the relative stability of our political system since its inception.

Ladewig · 27th June 2010, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by MG1962

Clearly the third is the most important. It has never been challenged in court, nor is there any evidence in 200 years of anyone trying to abuse it

Engblom v. Carey, 677 F.2d 957 (2d. Cir. 1982).

Ladewig · 27th June 2010, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

No, that would be the courts. When was the last time anyone used a gun to protect their Constitutional rights?

While number 2 is not my choice, understanding those who did vote for it might be achieved by reading NRA President Charlton Heston's February 1997 Press Club Address.

a short clip:

Originally Posted by C. Heston

The Second Amendment is America's First Freedom, the one right that protects all of the others. Among freedom of speech, of the press, of religion, of assembly, of redress of grievances, it is the first among equals. It alone offers the absolute capacity to live without fear. The right to keep and bear arms is the one right that allows "rights" to exist at all.

defaultdotxbe · 27th June 2010, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

When was the last time anyone used a gun to protect their Constitutional rights?

to put it another way, when was the last time anyone had the balls try TRY to take away our constitutional rights?

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Someone seriously thought the right to own a gun was more important than the right not be be enslaved?

Originally Posted by jhunter1163

No one but me thought that giving the vote to half of all Americans was important?

and this is why i said first, the second may or may not be needed to protect rights you DO have, but the first amendment is the only way to get rights you SHOULD have

Unabogie · 27th June 2010, 08:40 AM

Merv, this is a great question. And though I voted for the fourth, in my opinion it's kind of meaningless, since I think almost none of the big ones can exist without the others. So you can own a gun, but you can't speak out about it? So you'd have to engage in gun battles to defend what you say? Not good. Likewise, you can say whatever you want, but with no fourth amendment, police can spy on your every word and deed with no warrant? Put cameras in your home? How long before they could find an "offense" that could put anyone they wanted in jail? I could go on and on.

The beauty of the Constitution is that it addresses all of this. Our freedoms are pretty amazing.

DC · 27th June 2010, 08:47 AM

whats more important, breathing or eating?

Beerina · 27th June 2010, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha

You go out shooting when you lose a Supreme Court case?

If it re-authorized slavery, or abridged the first ammendment, wouldn't you?

Or do we all just sit with blinders on, hoping things don't change, against all experience from human history?

ponderingturtle · 27th June 2010, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Can one of the 2nd amendment people please tell me what the hell you are thinking? I can understand that you think the second amendment is important but the MOST important? Are you friggin kidding me?

It stems from the idea that the threat of domestic terrorism is vitally important to this country.

ponderingturtle · 27th June 2010, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

to put it another way, when was the last time anyone had the balls try TRY to take away our constitutional rights?

Reagan had issues with many of them, 1st 4th 5th specifically. He so I guess John Hinkley really shows the importance to our system that firearms bring.

We really need to think about abolishing the secret services role in presidential protection, makes it too hard for those armed people to properly express their political opinions.

defaultdotxbe · 27th June 2010, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Reagan had issues with many of them, 1st 4th 5th specifically. He so I guess John Hinkley really shows the importance to our system that firearms bring.

We really need to think about abolishing the secret services role in presidential protection, makes it too hard for those armed people to properly express their political opinions.

thats clearly not the point and i really hope you are smart enough to realize that, assassinating a figurehead does nothing to further anyones political goals (except perhaps the next in line of succession)

Noztradamus · 27th June 2010, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Can one of the 2nd amendment people please tell me what the hell you are thinking? I can understand that you think the second amendment is important but the MOST important? Are you friggin kidding me?

If you ask the question, don't complain about the answer.

ponderingturtle · 27th June 2010, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

thats clearly not the point and i really hope you are smart enough to realize that, assassinating a figurehead does nothing to further anyones political goals (except perhaps the next in line of succession)

The point is clearly about domestic terrorism, so which forms of domestic terrorism are you for and which ones are you against?

defaultdotxbe · 27th June 2010, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

It stems from the idea that the threat of domestic terrorism is vitally important to this country.

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

The point is clearly about domestic terrorism, so which forms of domestic terrorism are you for and which ones are you against?

it seems the implication is that the only reason someone would support the 2nd amendment is if they plan to engage in domestic terrorism

once again, i hope you are smart enough to realize this is not the case

MaGZ · 27th June 2010, 10:53 AM

Preempt the Gun Godwin

Hitler was not in favor of gun control.
http://www.natall.com/national-vangu...gunhitler.html

gnome · 27th June 2010, 11:05 AM

I voted Fourteenth... though it's really hard to pick just one.

The Bill Of Rights wouldn't be terribly meaningful if each state were free to violate it.
Plus the definition of citizenship is remarkably unqualified.

Cain · 27th June 2010, 11:07 AM

I disagree with the poll question but who else picked the 14th?

ETA: Other than Noam.

CptColumbo · 27th June 2010, 01:19 PM

Without the first amendment, it would be hard to have discussions like this one.

Loss Leader · 27th June 2010, 01:27 PM

I think repeal of the 4th would most fundamentally change the nature of our society.

KingMerv00 · 27th June 2010, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

to put it another way, when was the last time anyone had the balls try TRY to take away our constitutional rights?

Everytime someone tries to strike down a law for being unconstitutional, they are claiming exactly that. When they lose in the Surpeme Court, they don't storm the capitol building, they go back to their daily lives. In other words, the democratic process protects your rights, guns do not.

Guns are nearly worthless when it comes to enforcing your rights. The only time I could see them being useful is if the federal government converts to fascism (at which point the Constitution is a moot point anyway). Do you think that is at hand? Do you think private gun ownership keeps fascism at bay?

Originally Posted by Unabogie

Merv, this is a great question. And though I voted for the fourth, in my opinion it's kind of meaningless, since I think almost none of the big ones can exist without the others. So you can own a gun, but you can't speak out about it? So you'd have to engage in gun battles to defend what you say? Not good. Likewise, you can say whatever you want, but with no fourth amendment, police can spy on your every word and deed with no warrant? Put cameras in your home? How long before they could find an "offense" that could put anyone they wanted in jail? I could go on and on.

The beauty of the Constitution is that it addresses all of this. Our freedoms are pretty amazing.

Just because an amendment is repealed, it wouldn't mean the end of that freedom. For example, if the 2nd amendment was repealed, Congress would still be accountable for the gun laws they create and the states could create a gun right in their own constitutions.

Originally Posted by DC

whats more important, breathing or eating?

Breathing.

KingMerv00 · 27th June 2010, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by CptColumbo

Without the first amendment, it would be hard to have discussions like this one.

Depends on what laws follow.

KingMerv00 · 27th June 2010, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Noztradamus

If you ask the question, don't complain about the answer.

Don't answer a question and expect no one to challenge you.

MontagK505 · 27th June 2010, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by DC

whats more important, breathing or eating?

As long as you breathe you can search for food.

defaultdotxbe · 27th June 2010, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Everytime someone tries to strike down a law for being unconstitutional, they are claiming exactly that. When they lose in the Surpeme Court, they don't storm the capitol building, they go back to their daily lives. In other words, the democratic process protects your rights, guns do not.

Guns are nearly worthless when it comes to enforcing your rights. The only time I could see them being useful is if the federal government converts to fascism (at which point the Constitution is a moot point anyway). Do you think that is at hand? Do you think private gun ownership keeps fascism at bay?

the framers of the constitution seemed to think so

and it seems the JREF forum members agree with me too, first is first, second is second

KingMerv00 · 27th June 2010, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

the framers of the constitution seemed to think so

That's not a real argument.

In all fairness, it made more sense back then. The states were not fully unified and the lack of technology meant that private gun ownership posed a real threat to the military.

Quote:

and it seems the JREF forum members agree with me too, first is first, second is second

That's not an argument either.

Ladewig · 27th June 2010, 05:21 PM

I can't remember the last time I saw a poll where Planet X was at 2%.

First - Speech and religion	59	49.17%
Second - Right to bear arms	19	15.83%
Third - No quarting of soldiers	2	1.67%
Fourth - Search and seizure	3	2.50%
Fifth - Right to remain silent, eminent domain, etc.	1	0.83%
Sixth - Speedy trial / right to counsel	1	0.83%
Eighth - Cruel and unusual punishment	1	0.83%
Ninth - Reserved state powers	1	0.83%
Tenth - Rights reserved by the states	0	0%
Thirteenth - Abolish of slavery	7	5.83%
Fourteenth - Due process, equal prottection, incorporation	10	8.33%
Nineteenth - Women's sufferage	3	2.50%
Twenty-first - Repeal of prohibition	2	1.67%
Twenty-Second - Presidential term limits	1	0.83%
Twenty-Fourth - No poll taxes	1	0.83%
Twenty-Fifth - Presidential succession	1	0.83%
Twenty-Sixth - 18 year olds can vote	0	0%
Twenty-Seventh - Congressional pay raises are delayed	0	0%
Other	1	0.83%
Planet X has a Bill of Wrongs	7	5.83%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

26th June 2010, 03:26 PM	#1
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Which constitutional amendment is the most important? The repeal of which amendment would bother you the most? Why? (Only room for 20 poll options, sorry.) Edit - Whoops, I suck. Tons of type-os and I screwed up the description of the ninth.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust? Last edited by KingMerv00; 26th June 2010 at 03:37 PM.

26th June 2010, 04:02 PM	#2
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Someone seriously thought the right to own a gun was more important than the right not be be enslaved?
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust? Last edited by KingMerv00; 26th June 2010 at 04:03 PM.

26th June 2010, 04:18 PM	#3
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,255	All of them are important. This is a dishonest question.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

26th June 2010, 04:20 PM	#4
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 Someone seriously thought the right to own a gun was more important than the right not be be enslaved? Ironically, some foolishly think it is the only thing that can preserve the others, when push comes to shove.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

26th June 2010, 04:22 PM	#5
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,748	I said the First, but it really is a tough question. Also, the Constitution would not have been ratified without the simultaneous ratification of the Bill of Rights (1-10). I think those are thought of as a block for good reason.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

26th June 2010, 04:26 PM	#6
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Clearly the third is the most important. It has never been challenged in court, nor is there any evidence in 200 years of anyone trying to abuse it

26th June 2010, 05:17 PM	#7
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 7,482	the first amendment is first for a reason (and the second is a close second) BTW its not just speech and religion, its also press, assemble peacefully and petition for a redress of grievances (although most americans will not be able to name all 5 of those if you stop them on the street)
	__________________ I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

26th June 2010, 09:30 PM	#8
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 9,899	Originally Posted by Beerina Ironically, some foolishly think it is the only thing that can preserve the others, when push comes to shove. You go out shooting when you lose a Supreme Court case?
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

26th June 2010, 09:44 PM	#9
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha You go out shooting when you lose a Supreme Court case? No, when the sitting president tells you that the next election has been cancelled and we all have to convert to Jainism.

26th June 2010, 10:54 PM	#10
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor All of them are important. This is a dishonest question. I didn't say they weren't all important. In what way was I dishonest?
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

26th June 2010, 10:58 PM	#11
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Can one of the 2nd amendment people please tell me what the hell you are thinking? I can understand that you think the second amendment is important but the MOST important? Are you friggin kidding me?
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

26th June 2010, 11:02 PM	#12
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe the first amendment is first for a reason (and the second is a close second) Again I ask...what the hell? Quote: BTW its not just speech and religion, its also press, assemble peacefully and petition for a redress of grievances (although most americans will not be able to name all 5 of those if you stop them on the street) Yes I know. I was just giving a brief summary.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

26th June 2010, 11:27 PM	#13
Bob Blaylock Forklift Operator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: N38°35' W121°29' Posts: 3,013	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 Someone seriously thought the right to own a gun was more important than the right not be be enslaved? The Second Amendment is what protects all the others. It's not nearly as easy to enslave someone who has a gun, as it is to enslave someone who does not. It is well worth noting that the earliest “gun control” laws in the United States were specifically aimed at blacks, shortly after slavery was abolished. As it was no longer legal to keep them in slavery, laws were implemented prohibiting them from owning arms, in order to assure that they could still be oppressed and abused by those who remained armed.

26th June 2010, 11:29 PM	#14
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock The Second Amendment is what protects all the others. No, that would be the courts. When was the last time anyone used a gun to protect their Constitutional rights? Quote: It's not nearly as easy to enslave someone who has a gun, as it is to enslave someone who does not. And if I start shipping in slaves from other countries?
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

27th June 2010, 12:30 AM	#15
jhunter1163 Beer-Swilling Semiliterate Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Room 118, Bohemian Grove Marriott Posts: 15,576	No one but me thought that giving the vote to half of all Americans was important?

27th June 2010, 12:50 AM	#16
Mark R Thinker Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Inland Empire Posts: 127	Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock It's not nearly as easy to enslave someone who has a gun, as it is to enslave someone who does not. Your point taken, but it is also hard to enslave someone who has the right to speak out against that enslavement, which is part of the importance of the First Amendment. Freedom of speech makes it difficult to marginalize a group because they have the power to speak out. It acts like a safety valve that prevents violence from becoming a necessary competent. I am not going to argue it always works, but I think it has been an essential factor in the relative stability of our political system since its inception.

27th June 2010, 02:26 AM	#17
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,800	Originally Posted by MG1962 Clearly the third is the most important. It has never been challenged in court, nor is there any evidence in 200 years of anyone trying to abuse it Engblom v. Carey, 677 F.2d 957 (2d. Cir. 1982).
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

27th June 2010, 02:36 AM	#18
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,800	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 No, that would be the courts. When was the last time anyone used a gun to protect their Constitutional rights? While number 2 is not my choice, understanding those who did vote for it might be achieved by reading NRA President Charlton Heston's February 1997 Press Club Address. a short clip: Originally Posted by C. Heston The Second Amendment is America's First Freedom, the one right that protects all of the others. Among freedom of speech, of the press, of religion, of assembly, of redress of grievances, it is the first among equals. It alone offers the absolute capacity to live without fear. The right to keep and bear arms is the one right that allows "rights" to exist at all.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

27th June 2010, 06:09 AM	#19
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 7,482	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 When was the last time anyone used a gun to protect their Constitutional rights? to put it another way, when was the last time anyone had the balls try TRY to take away our constitutional rights? Originally Posted by KingMerv00 Someone seriously thought the right to own a gun was more important than the right not be be enslaved? Originally Posted by jhunter1163 No one but me thought that giving the vote to half of all Americans was important? and this is why i said first, the second may or may not be needed to protect rights you DO have, but the first amendment is the only way to get rights you SHOULD have
	__________________ I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein Last edited by defaultdotxbe; 27th June 2010 at 06:11 AM.

27th June 2010, 08:40 AM	#20
Unabogie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,846	Merv, this is a great question. And though I voted for the fourth, in my opinion it's kind of meaningless, since I think almost none of the big ones can exist without the others. So you can own a gun, but you can't speak out about it? So you'd have to engage in gun battles to defend what you say? Not good. Likewise, you can say whatever you want, but with no fourth amendment, police can spy on your every word and deed with no warrant? Put cameras in your home? How long before they could find an "offense" that could put anyone they wanted in jail? I could go on and on. The beauty of the Constitution is that it addresses all of this. Our freedoms are pretty amazing.

27th June 2010, 08:47 AM	#21
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,650	whats more important, breathing or eating?
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

27th June 2010, 09:03 AM	#22
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha You go out shooting when you lose a Supreme Court case? If it re-authorized slavery, or abridged the first ammendment, wouldn't you? Or do we all just sit with blinders on, hoping things don't change, against all experience from human history?
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? Last edited by Beerina; 27th June 2010 at 09:04 AM.

27th June 2010, 09:18 AM	#23
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,424	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 Can one of the 2nd amendment people please tell me what the hell you are thinking? I can understand that you think the second amendment is important but the MOST important? Are you friggin kidding me? It stems from the idea that the threat of domestic terrorism is vitally important to this country.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

27th June 2010, 09:22 AM	#24
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,424	Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe to put it another way, when was the last time anyone had the balls try TRY to take away our constitutional rights? Reagan had issues with many of them, 1st 4th 5th specifically. He so I guess John Hinkley really shows the importance to our system that firearms bring. We really need to think about abolishing the secret services role in presidential protection, makes it too hard for those armed people to properly express their political opinions.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

27th June 2010, 09:36 AM	#25
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 7,482	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle Reagan had issues with many of them, 1st 4th 5th specifically. He so I guess John Hinkley really shows the importance to our system that firearms bring. We really need to think about abolishing the secret services role in presidential protection, makes it too hard for those armed people to properly express their political opinions. thats clearly not the point and i really hope you are smart enough to realize that, assassinating a figurehead does nothing to further anyones political goals (except perhaps the next in line of succession)
	__________________ I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

27th June 2010, 09:38 AM	#26
Noztradamus Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,846	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 Can one of the 2nd amendment people please tell me what the hell you are thinking? I can understand that you think the second amendment is important but the MOST important? Are you friggin kidding me? If you ask the question, don't complain about the answer.
	__________________ The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.

27th June 2010, 09:43 AM	#27
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,424	Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe thats clearly not the point and i really hope you are smart enough to realize that, assassinating a figurehead does nothing to further anyones political goals (except perhaps the next in line of succession) The point is clearly about domestic terrorism, so which forms of domestic terrorism are you for and which ones are you against?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

27th June 2010, 09:48 AM	#28
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 7,482	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle It stems from the idea that the threat of domestic terrorism is vitally important to this country. Originally Posted by ponderingturtle The point is clearly about domestic terrorism, so which forms of domestic terrorism are you for and which ones are you against? it seems the implication is that the only reason someone would support the 2nd amendment is if they plan to engage in domestic terrorism once again, i hope you are smart enough to realize this is not the case
	__________________ I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

27th June 2010, 10:53 AM	#29
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Preempt the Gun Godwin Hitler was not in favor of gun control. http://www.natall.com/national-vangu...gunhitler.html
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

27th June 2010, 11:05 AM	#30
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	I voted Fourteenth... though it's really hard to pick just one. The Bill Of Rights wouldn't be terribly meaningful if each state were free to violate it. Plus the definition of citizenship is remarkably unqualified.
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	__________________

27th June 2010, 11:07 AM	#31
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,935	I disagree with the poll question but who else picked the 14th? ETA: Other than Noam.
	__________________ *Arrested Development* is coming back! Michael (to GOB): Get rid of the Seaward. Lucille: I’ll leave when I’m good and ready. Last edited by Cain; 27th June 2010 at 11:08 AM.

27th June 2010, 01:19 PM	#32
CptColumbo Just One More Question Join Date: May 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 9,130	Without the first amendment, it would be hard to have discussions like this one.
	__________________ I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office" The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling

27th June 2010, 01:27 PM	#33
Loss Leader Opinionated Jerk Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11,885	I think repeal of the 4th would most fundamentally change the nature of our society.
	__________________ Follow me on Twitter! @LossLeader This force is receiving all the right to vote through the use of magic. - Miernik Wieslaw <NEW> VOTE FOR ME JUST BECAUSE <NEW>

27th June 2010, 04:25 PM	#34
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe to put it another way, when was the last time anyone had the balls try TRY to take away our constitutional rights? Everytime someone tries to strike down a law for being unconstitutional, they are claiming exactly that. When they lose in the Surpeme Court, they don't storm the capitol building, they go back to their daily lives. In other words, the democratic process protects your rights, guns do not. Guns are nearly worthless when it comes to enforcing your rights. The only time I could see them being useful is if the federal government converts to fascism (at which point the Constitution is a moot point anyway). Do you think that is at hand? Do you think private gun ownership keeps fascism at bay? Originally Posted by Unabogie Merv, this is a great question. And though I voted for the fourth, in my opinion it's kind of meaningless, since I think almost none of the big ones can exist without the others. So you can own a gun, but you can't speak out about it? So you'd have to engage in gun battles to defend what you say? Not good. Likewise, you can say whatever you want, but with no fourth amendment, police can spy on your every word and deed with no warrant? Put cameras in your home? How long before they could find an "offense" that could put anyone they wanted in jail? I could go on and on. The beauty of the Constitution is that it addresses all of this. Our freedoms are pretty amazing. Just because an amendment is repealed, it wouldn't mean the end of that freedom. For example, if the 2nd amendment was repealed, Congress would still be accountable for the gun laws they create and the states could create a gun right in their own constitutions. Originally Posted by DC whats more important, breathing or eating? Breathing.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust? Last edited by KingMerv00; 27th June 2010 at 04:37 PM.