Hamas warns "informers"

[lionking]

Originally Posted by WildCat

Peephole apparently uses the same school of "thought" as Thunder, whereby blowing up civilians in a cafe, or bashing in the head of a toddler after killing his mother in front of him, is the moral equivalent of not having cheese doodles or coriander on store shelves.

Thanks. Gotcha.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by WildCat

Peephole apparently uses the same school of "thought" as Thunder, whereby blowing up civilians in a cafe, or bashing in the head of a toddler after killing his mother in front of him, is the moral equivalent of not having cheese doodles or coriander on store shelves.

Maybe I'm not familiar with Peephole, but I read that as a condemnation of Palestinian terror?

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Maybe I'm not familiar with Peephole, but I read that as a condemnation of Palestinian terror?

I'd be very surprised.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by The Fool

what part of Israel? Loonie right? Mainstream? What do YOU think...



Personally I think the loonie right wants what they think god promised them and the mainstream want peace and borders something like 1967...

I meant Israel as a whole. Care to answer that?

My opinion is they'll be satisfied with whatever agreement that has Palestinians settling down to the business of self-government rather than pursuing their relentless war against Israel.

With the possible exception of East Jerusalem. Israel may decide to hang onto that.

[Virus]

And right of return. They won't want to become a minority in an Arab state after a few generations.

[geni]

Originally Posted by Virus

And right of return. They won't want to become a minority in an Arab state after a few generations.

The numbers don't look too good there. There are no real pools of imigrants left and there only groups having significant numbers of children are the ultra orthodox mob who are of only limited use economicaly and have so far managed to avoid millitry service..

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

And right of return. They won't want to become a minority in an Arab state after a few generations.

jaja, the racists here also claim we need to stop letting in all those foreigners, we are becoming a minority in our own land...

[lionking]

Originally Posted by DC

jaja, the racists here also claim we need to stop letting in all those foreigners, we are becoming a minority in our own land...

Can you please explain how it is racist to have a position on immigration policy? I don't like boat people arriving in Australia. Am I racist?

[Virus]

Originally Posted by DC

jaja, the racists here also claim we need to stop letting in all those foreigners, we are becoming a minority in our own land...

Fine. Switzerland can take four million Palestinians in one go.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

Fine. Switzerland can take four million Palestinians in one go.

last time i checked we didnt drive away anyone from his home and his land. Thus no right to return.

[DC]

Originally Posted by lionking

Can you please explain how it is racist to have a position on immigration policy? I don't like boat people arriving in Australia. Am I racist?

why dont you like "boat people" arriving in Australia?
are you scared to end up as a minority in your own country?

[lionking]

Originally Posted by DC

why dont you like "boat people" arriving in Australia?
are you scared to end up as a minority in your own country?

Answer my question. Am I a racist?

[DC]

Originally Posted by lionking

Answer my question. Am I a racist?

i dont know, why do you dislike people that flee on boats to your country?

[DC]

Quote:

According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination.

just in case your confued of my used of the term racism.

[DC]

so we have a country that drove poeple away from their homes and land. they dont want them to giive them their right to return.
in the same time, that same country erects illegal settlements on other peoples land.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by DC

jaja, the racists here also claim we need to stop letting in all those foreigners, we are becoming a minority in our own land...

Do you think that is or is not a legitimate concern?

Do you think it's possible for Switzerland or another country to allow so much immigration that their own culture is overwhelmed?

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by DC

so we have a country that drove poeple away from their homes and land. they dont want them to giive them their right to return.
in the same time, that same country erects illegal settlements on other peoples land.

That's one narrative, but you know that not everyone agrees with that, right?

[Virus]

Originally Posted by DC

so we have a country that drove poeple away from their homes and land. they dont want them to giive them their right to return.
in the same time, that same country erects illegal settlements on other peoples land.

It looks to me like they started a war, lost, started a few more and lost, then started a terrorist campaign and lost that, now they want to be pitied and compensated for it.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

It looks to me like they started a war, lost, started a few more and lost, then started a terrorist campaign and lost that, now they want to be pitied and compensated for it.

those that were driven out of their houses started a war?

[DC]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Do you think that is or is not a legitimate concern?

Do you think it's possible for Switzerland or another country to allow so much immigration that their own culture is overwhelmed?

no i don't think so, i even like the idea of Foreigners that live here, and are not swiss nationals to have a right to vote.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by DC

those that were driven out of their houses started a war?

They left because the Arab states started a war.

[The Fool]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Do you think that is or is not a legitimate concern?

Do you think it's possible for Switzerland or another country to allow so much immigration that their own culture is overwhelmed?

like letting in too many black people?

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

They left because the Arab states started a war.

So?

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by DC

So?

So life isn't fair. The fact that you live in Switzerland and not the Gaza strip is ample evidence. Indeed, your own well-being is founded upon centuries of people exploiting life's essential unfairness for their own benefit at the expense of those less fortunate.

Switzerland won a few wars, once upon a time. Palestine lost a few. Your good fortune is every bit as much an atrocity as is the misfortune of Palestinian civilians caught in a war not of their choosing (except for those that voted in Hamas, of course; I can't imagine a morally sane world in which they don't have it coming).

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by The Fool

like letting in too many black people?

Let's put the question to you. Do you think it's a legitimate concern that a country might have too much immigration so that the immigrants might overwhelm the culture of the people already there?

[DC]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Let's put the question to you. Do you think it's a legitimate concern that a country might have too much immigration so that the immigrants might overwhelm the culture of the people already there?

well from time to time our racist Right wing parties claim that yes. Sofar nothing of the sort happened.

[Virus]

You didn't answer the question DC. Is too much immigration a legitimate concern?

[DC]

Originally Posted by Virus

You didn't answer the question DC. Is too much immigration a legitimate concern?

what is too much? Many many people emmigrate to my country and there still is enough space for even more people to come here. I never have seen to much emmigration. I think there is no such thing as to much emmigration.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Virus

You didn't answer the question DC. Is too much immigration a legitimate concern?

He's given an answer and the answer is "no". I can respect that.

Complex issues are going to have divergent points of view, and it would be short-sighted to claim there is only once correct point of view to be had. I personally come from a very large country and it's difficult to imagine immigration heavy enough to overwhelm our culture and traditions, except perhaps regionally, but that's my country. Switzerland has a population of less than eight million, and especially if they give the vote to non-citizens, it's easy to imagine them having enough immigration to change the very nature of their country.

Personally, I'm eager to hear how The Fool answers the question.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

He's given an answer and the answer is "no". I can respect that.

Complex issues are going to have divergent points of view, and it would be short-sighted to claim there is only once correct point of view to be had. I personally come from a very large country and it's difficult to imagine immigration heavy enough to overwhelm our culture and traditions, except perhaps regionally, but that's my country. Switzerland has a population of less than eight million, and especially if they give the vote to non-citizens, it's easy to imagine them having enough immigration to change the very nature of their country.

Personally, I'm eager to hear how The Fool answers the question.

the country has changed, a lot indeed, and some things i dislike. others i like. there has always been migration and there will always be migration.

ETA: and btw, a lot of those "new" citizens know more about Switzerland than the average swiss, they have to pass a difficult test, i just had to survive birth

[Pardalis]

Anyone want to go back to the OP?

[Peephole]

Originally Posted by lionking

I'd respond to this if it made sense.

Indeed, there was no logic at all in what you said.

War doesn't justify everything. That's why the concept of war crimes was invented.

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Maybe I'm not familiar with Peephole, but I read that as a condemnation of Palestinian terror?

I'm sorry, but that doesn't fit in WildCat's world view. When you're not defending everything the glorious states of Israel and the US do, you're obvious a terrorist supporter.

There is only black and white.

[Darth Rotor]

Originally Posted by DC

oh and that excuses blockade of goods for the civilian population?

Actually, yes, it does. It's part of war. See the, among other documents, the articles in the UN charter.

War exists regardless of declaration in many cases, and since WW II, in an increasing number of cases.

DC, does a state of belligerency exist between Israel and Hamas? If yes, then various warlike acts can be expected by both parties. I think one does, but maybe one doesn't. It is a rather muddy situation.

Now, if you feel a state of belligerency does not exist between them, and you may have a good argument for that, please describe their political relationship to support that idea.

I am open to your thoughts.

[Darth Rotor]

Originally Posted by The Fool

wow...a talking tree. Am I supposed to take threats from talking trees seriously?

Yes, since the silent spring is over ...

[Darth Rotor]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Let's put the question to you. Do you think it's a legitimate concern that a country might have too much immigration so that the immigrants might overwhelm the culture of the people already there?

Might want to ask a member of the Iroquois nation, not some old Fool on the internet ...

[The Fool]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Let's put the question to you. Do you think it's a legitimate concern that a country might have too much immigration so that the immigrants might overwhelm the culture of the people already there?

Its a common theme among bigots.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by The Fool

Its a common theme among bigots.

I think it's funny you want to suggest I've lost the "courage in my convictions" while you give feeble non-committal answers like this.

I can see that it can be a theme among bigots, but is it exclusive to bigots? Or can it be a legitimate concern?

C'mon, put yourself out there. The worst that might happen is you will change your mind later, and that's not so terrible, is it?

Darth Rotor brings up the Iroquois...would you call them bigots if at some time over the last 500 years they expressed a concern that there may have been too much European immigration to the Americas?

DC doesn't seem to mind, but what if another Swiss citizen felt that immigrants were changing his country in ways he didn't approve of? Would he be a bigot to think that maybe the solution is to have fewer immigrants?

[DC]

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Actually, yes, it does. It's part of war. See the, among other documents, the articles in the UN charter.

War exists regardless of declaration in many cases, and since WW II, in an increasing number of cases.

DC, does a state of belligerency exist between Israel and Hamas? If yes, then various warlike acts can be expected by both parties. I think one does, but maybe one doesn't. It is a rather muddy situation.

Now, if you feel a state of belligerency does not exist between them, and you may have a good argument for that, please describe their political relationship to support that idea.

I am open to your thoughts.

just because you think it is lawful doesn't mean i have to agree with it.
i still think it is wrong.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

I think it's funny you want to suggest I've lost the "courage in my convictions" while you give feeble non-committal answers like this.

I can see that it can be a theme among bigots, but is it exclusive to bigots? Or can it be a legitimate concern?

C'mon, put yourself out there. The worst that might happen is you will change your mind later, and that's not so terrible, is it?

Darth Rotor brings up the Iroquois...would you call them bigots if at some time over the last 500 years they expressed a concern that there may have been too much European immigration to the Americas?

DC doesn't seem to mind, but what if another Swiss citizen felt that immigrants were changing his country in ways he didn't approve of? Would he be a bigot to think that maybe the solution is to have fewer immigrants?

yes he would, we have quite a few of these. SVP and worse.

If one would say, we need more detailed criminal history checks on migrants so it will be harder or impossible for people with criminal background to migrate. That isn't bigoted, but mostly those people simply don't want other folks to come here in general. Most often they do generalize and draw them as criminals in general or they just come here to abuse our security nets and if its not that its simply that they take away our workplaces.

If we didn't have the money to or not enough place for all those people coming here, that would be a good reason to say, eeh moment, we are in trouble ourself. But we are one of the richest countries in the world and this is for a great deal also do to people that migrated to Switzerland.
But we tend to concentrate on the bad apples that undoubtedly came into this country also. But the huge majority is an enrichment to our society even thou they maybe don't eat as much Rösti as we do.

[The Fool]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

I can see that it can be a theme among bigots, but is it exclusive to bigots? Or can it be a legitimate concern?

Its a common theme among bigots. and it is the "they will overwhelm our culture" variation that bigots prefer. They rarely consider the cultural effects of the immigrants of thier own culture as a negative...Its generally a color they are not or a religion they are not....thats what gets to them.