Rwandan gov. conspiracy to disappear critic

Caustic Logic · 29th June 2010, 04:03 AM

I don't have the time to research this, but a guy is claiming what seems a conspiracy theory where the Rwandan government wanted to disappear him. Listed his flight as departed, then arresting him at his hotel, with I guess plans to kill him and just say only went missing AFTER Rwanda, so don't ask us.

This seems like a good link:
http://www.twincities.com/ci_15358903

Quote:

Peter Erlinder, a professor at the William Mitchell College of Law, said he believes no one would have learned of his fate if he hadn't been able to summon a U.S. embassy official to his hotel when he was arrested May 28. He said nobody at the embassy knew he was still in Rwanda because airline records somehow had been altered to show he had left the morning before.

He said he owes his life to thousands of people around the world who demanded his release after word got out. He returned home Tuesday after about three weeks in custody.

If true, obviously, it would be damning. And would lend a lot of eight to what he's arguing. Which is some revisionism about the apocalyptic massacres there in the 90s.

I'm sure the issue has been discussed elsewhere ,but for the CT connotations (claims, evidence, etc.) maybe this could be a dedicated thread to discuss concerns or doubts that anyone has. I will look at it myself in a couple days if no one else has anything to say first.

Scott Sommers · 29th June 2010, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

I don't have the time to research this, but a guy is claiming what seems a conspiracy theory where the Rwandan government wanted to disappear him. Listed his flight as departed, then arresting him at his hotel, with I guess plans to kill him and just say only went missing AFTER Rwanda, so don't ask us.

This seems like a good link:
http://www.twincities.com/ci_15358903

If true, obviously, it would be damning. And would lend a lot of eight to what he's arguing. Which is some revisionism about the apocalyptic massacres there in the 90s.

I'm sure the issue has been discussed elsewhere ,but for the CT connotations (claims, evidence, etc.) maybe this could be a dedicated thread to discuss concerns or doubts that anyone has. I will look at it myself in a couple days if no one else has anything to say first.

Why is this a conspiracy theory? It is widely know that Mr. Erlinder was arrested in Rwanda. This is like calling the arrest and subsequent execution of John Wayne a conspiracy theory. This is like calling the suspension of Ben Reynolds a conspiracy theory. In fact, if this is a conspiracy their, everything is a conspiracy theory.

Maybe that's your point. Who knows? Afterall, this is the JREF.

Ysidro · 29th June 2010, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan

Why is this a conspiracy theory? It is widely know that Mr. Erlinder was arrested in Rwanda. This is like calling the arrest and subsequent execution of John Wayne a conspiracy theory. This is like calling the suspension of Ben Reynolds a conspiracy theory. In fact, if this is a conspiracy their, everything is a conspiracy theory.

Maybe that's your point. Who knows? Afterall, this is the JREF.

The alteration of airplane records?

theprestige · 29th June 2010, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Ysidro

The alteration of airplane records?

Alleging that the airplane records were intentionally altered by the government of Rwanda is indeed a conspiracy theory.

It even seems plausible--at least as plausible as the theory that the airplane records were incorrect due to incompetence or inefficiency on the part of whoever is in charge of Rwandan airplane records.

Evidence that ruled out accident or coincidence, or otherwise supported the intentional alteration theory, would elevate the CT to an actual C.

Caustic Logic · 29th June 2010, 04:17 PM

Just starting with the question of if this is a conspiracy theory... absolutely, by the allegations. I think it's relatively plausible, but I don't actually believe it's true. It could be. It would imply that he's onto something with the official take on the genocide. And of course that the government knows that, and therefore wanted to get rid of the man's brain.

It could also be a fanciful construct by Mr. Erlinder to imply just that.

The airport records are key, and apparently (he presumes) the government there controls these. How could they be verified as showing what he says even if they did at one point? And how did he find that out if so?

And there are logic issues - like what if one of the arresting officers speaks up about the post-departure but pre-disappearance arrest? It's risky.

theprestige · 29th June 2010, 07:35 PM

I find it hard to imagine that the "official take" leaves nothing to be quibbled over or objected to.

That said, I also find it hard to imagine that if the government were hiding anything of major import, that this man would be the only person who knew about it. Surely there are enough survivors in Rwanda who would have a fairly good idea of what really happened.

It'd be like Nazi Germany covering up the Holocaust, and only Eli Weisel knows the truth. Everybody else who survived Sobibor and Treblinka and Auschwitz never noticed. The Red Cross? Totally clueless.

ETA: My point is, it's an extraordinary claim. Surely if this man had extraordinary evidence to support it, he'd be giving us that evidence, instead of this sob story.

29th June 2010, 04:03 AM	#1
Caustic Logic Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,979	Rwandan gov. conspiracy to disappear critic I don't have the time to research this, but a guy is claiming what seems a conspiracy theory where the Rwandan government wanted to disappear him. Listed his flight as departed, then arresting him at his hotel, with I guess plans to kill him and just say only went missing AFTER Rwanda, so don't ask us. This seems like a good link: http://www.twincities.com/ci_15358903 Quote: Peter Erlinder, a professor at the William Mitchell College of Law, said he believes no one would have learned of his fate if he hadn't been able to summon a U.S. embassy official to his hotel when he was arrested May 28. He said nobody at the embassy knew he was still in Rwanda because airline records somehow had been altered to show he had left the morning before. He said he owes his life to thousands of people around the world who demanded his release after word got out. He returned home Tuesday after about three weeks in custody. If true, obviously, it would be damning. And would lend a lot of eight to what he's arguing. Which is some revisionism about the apocalyptic massacres there in the 90s. I'm sure the issue has been discussed elsewhere ,but for the CT connotations (claims, evidence, etc.) maybe this could be a dedicated thread to discuss concerns or doubts that anyone has. I will look at it myself in a couple days if no one else has anything to say first.

29th June 2010, 05:02 AM	#2
Scott Sommers Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,642	Originally Posted by Caustic Logic I don't have the time to research this, but a guy is claiming what seems a conspiracy theory where the Rwandan government wanted to disappear him. Listed his flight as departed, then arresting him at his hotel, with I guess plans to kill him and just say only went missing AFTER Rwanda, so don't ask us. This seems like a good link: http://www.twincities.com/ci_15358903 If true, obviously, it would be damning. And would lend a lot of eight to what he's arguing. Which is some revisionism about the apocalyptic massacres there in the 90s. I'm sure the issue has been discussed elsewhere ,but for the CT connotations (claims, evidence, etc.) maybe this could be a dedicated thread to discuss concerns or doubts that anyone has. I will look at it myself in a couple days if no one else has anything to say first. Why is this a conspiracy theory? It is widely know that Mr. Erlinder was arrested in Rwanda. This is like calling the arrest and subsequent execution of John Wayne a conspiracy theory. This is like calling the suspension of Ben Reynolds a conspiracy theory. In fact, if this is a conspiracy their, everything is a conspiracy theory. Maybe that's your point. Who knows? Afterall, this is the JREF.
	__________________ for the original publication Who Still Believes in 9/11 Conspiracies? for Google Books Becoming Taiwan: From Colonialism to Democracy

29th June 2010, 05:46 AM	#3
Ysidro I'm watching you Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 5,334	Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan Why is this a conspiracy theory? It is widely know that Mr. Erlinder was arrested in Rwanda. This is like calling the arrest and subsequent execution of John Wayne a conspiracy theory. This is like calling the suspension of Ben Reynolds a conspiracy theory. In fact, if this is a conspiracy their, everything is a conspiracy theory. Maybe that's your point. Who knows? Afterall, this is the JREF. The alteration of airplane records?
Ysidro I'm watching you Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 5,334	__________________ This is a sig file. Does anyone even read this stuff?

29th June 2010, 10:31 AM	#4
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,569	Originally Posted by Ysidro The alteration of airplane records? Alleging that the airplane records were intentionally altered by the government of Rwanda is indeed a conspiracy theory. It even seems plausible--at least as plausible as the theory that the airplane records were incorrect due to incompetence or inefficiency on the part of whoever is in charge of Rwandan airplane records. Evidence that ruled out accident or coincidence, or otherwise supported the intentional alteration theory, would elevate the CT to an actual C.
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,569

29th June 2010, 07:35 PM	#6
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,569	I find it hard to imagine that the "official take" leaves nothing to be quibbled over or objected to. That said, I also find it hard to imagine that if the government were hiding anything of major import, that this man would be the only person who knew about it. Surely there are enough survivors in Rwanda who would have a fairly good idea of what really happened. It'd be like Nazi Germany covering up the Holocaust, and only Eli Weisel knows the truth. Everybody else who survived Sobibor and Treblinka and Auschwitz never noticed. The Red Cross? Totally clueless. ETA: My point is, it's an extraordinary claim. Surely if this man had extraordinary evidence to support it, he'd be giving us that evidence, instead of this sob story.
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,569	Last edited by theprestige; 29th June 2010 at 07:36 PM.

29th June 2010, 04:17 PM	#5
Caustic Logic Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,979	Just starting with the question of if this is a conspiracy theory... absolutely, by the allegations. I think it's relatively plausible, but I don't actually believe it's true. It could be. It would imply that he's onto something with the official take on the genocide. And of course that the government knows that, and therefore wanted to get rid of the man's brain. It could also be a fanciful construct by Mr. Erlinder to imply just that. The airport records are key, and apparently (he presumes) the government there controls these. How could they be verified as showing what he says even if they did at one point? And how did he find that out if so? And there are logic issues - like what if one of the arresting officers speaks up about the post-departure but pre-disappearance arrest? It's risky.