Clearing one's conscience

Ixion · 29th June 2010, 09:47 AM

Interesting article I came across. It is very short, but it brought up some thoughts. Not sure which sub-forum I should put it in though, so if a mod thinks it should go somewhere else, feel free to move it.

Basically, a restaurant in Mesa, Arizona (a suburb of Phoenix) decides to sell lion burgers. These burgers are made with a combination of beef and African lion meat. The restaurant owner feels bad about it and offers a cash donation to an animal rescue group and asks patrons to also donate to the rescue group.

The rescue group rejects the money because of how it was obtained.

Here is a link to the article:
Rescue group rejects cash from lion burger sales

So, several questions in my mind arose from this:
1. How difficult is it to obtain lion meat? Aren't African lions a threatened wildlife group?

2. Are there laws about the preparation and sale of exotic meats for consumption?

3. The amount of money offered was only $100 (I don't know how much he charged for a lion burger, but I expect it would be rather more than a typical beef burger). Should the restaurant owner have offered more, especially if he felt bad about selling the burgers?

4. Is this a good method of atonement (atone being loosely defined here)?

5. Should the rescue group have accepted the money, even if it was from a source they whole-heartedly disagreed with?

To me, this is a sticky situation, even without bringing in all sorts of slippery slope arguments. What do you think?

Meclizine · 29th June 2010, 10:02 AM

If he feels bad then he shouldn't have sold burgers with lion meat in them. I don't know what was going through his head but this seems simple to me.

RenaissanceBiker · 29th June 2010, 10:05 AM

I'm pretty sure selling lion meat in South Carolina would be illegal. How does this guy get it? Did a wholeseller approach him with lion meat or the pre-packaged burgers? Does he obtain the lion meat from overseas and make the burgers himself? Is it inspected by the US FDA?

Cleon · 29th June 2010, 10:13 AM

CNN did an investigation about the source of the lion meat.

The source of the meat is...rather ambiguous, but it seems to be legal to eat lion in the US.

paximperium · 29th June 2010, 10:16 AM

It is legal to eat lion meat in the US but it is illegal to trade in it.
Where the heck did it come from?

Ixion · 29th June 2010, 10:38 AM

Well, apparently (according to the CNN link that Cleon provided), a meat distributor outside of Chicago obtained it for the restaurant. The distributor claims that the animals were inspected by the USDA. However, the USDA states that lion meat falls under the jurisdiction of the FDA. Nevertheless, overall, it seems that no one seems to be too sure of trading lion meat. The distributor says the meat is a "by-product" of the lion because the animals are killed for fur. Smells like a loop-hole to me.

paximperium · 29th June 2010, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Ixion

Well, apparently (according to the CNN link that Cleon provided), a meat distributor outside of Chicago obtained it for the restaurant. The distributor claims that the animals were inspected by the USDA. However, the USDA states that lion meat falls under the jurisdiction of the FDA. Nevertheless, overall, it seems that no one seems to be too sure of trading lion meat. The distributor says the meat is a "by-product" of the lion because the animals are killed for fur. Smells like a loop-hole to me.

It should be the FDA. Imported foods are inspected by the FDA. They should be able to clearly produce the paperwork to support this claim...shouldn't they?

Killing lions for fur is illegal and lion products are all illegal...how the heck is lion meat legal. The same laws apply to elephant byproducts, it is illegal to trade in ivory.
If there is a meat loophole, it definitely should be closed.

Naddig74 · 29th June 2010, 12:28 PM

Something I've heard said is ''If you want to save a species from extinction, put it on the menu.''

All the rare breed farms in the UK that I've ever visited specialise in conserving certain breeds of pig or sheep or whatever, because they make such good eating.

If somebody discovered that a daily bowl of Crispy Fried Panda reduced cholesterol or some such, we'd find a way to make the buggers breed.

rjh01 · 29th June 2010, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Naddig74

Something I've heard said is ''If you want to save a species from extinction, put it on the menu.''

All the rare breed farms in the UK that I've ever visited specialise in conserving certain breeds of pig or sheep or whatever, because they make such good eating.

If somebody discovered that a daily bowl of Crispy Fried Panda reduced cholesterol or some such, we'd find a way to make the buggers breed.

However wild animals are different from farm animals. An extreme example are sheep bred for wool. They need to be fleeced at least every few years or they will die. Wild sheep do not have this problem. A human breeder would not breed an animal that is hard to control, yet that is the sort of animal that will survive in the wild.

GrouchoMarxist · 29th June 2010, 03:03 PM

"Welcome to the mysterious world of back-alley exotic meat purveyance."

Feel free to browse around.

kerikiwi · 29th June 2010, 07:16 PM

This is silly beyond belief.
If the owner thinks he shouldn't be selling lion meat, he shouldn't sell it.
If he thinks it's okay, he shouldn't be trying to atone for doing something that he doesn't think is wrong.

GrouchoMarxist · 29th June 2010, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by kerikiwi

This is silly beyond belief.
If the owner thinks he shouldn't be selling lion meat, he shouldn't sell it.
If he thinks it's okay, he shouldn't be trying to atone for doing something that he doesn't think is wrong.

It's a silly world.
I suspect the bad publicity may have something to do with his desire to repent.

Edit: Actually I think repent is the wrong word. A special dispensation from the animal rights activists is what he's after, I think.

Ixion · 30th June 2010, 10:39 AM

I have to agree with some of the comments above. If it is not illegal to eat lion meat, but it is illegal to sell it, then why hasn't there been any legal actions? The distributor was convicted in 2003 for such transactions and served a 6 month prison term. That doesn't excuse him from being convicted again of the same type of crime 7 years later.

Actually, it seems that this is because lion meat is not protected. The distributor's original sentence was for selling tiger and leopard meat, which is protected. This sounds like there needs to be a review of federally protected species.

I just love this quote from the distributor too:

Quote:

Do you question where chickens come from when you go to Brown's Chicken or Boston Market?

Just because people don't, doesn't mean they shouldn't. USDA regulates these meats. When food is not properly inspected, then problems arise. The recent E. coli outbreaks seemed to be linked to poor inspection of food-stuffs.

As for the restaurant owner, I agree that he only seems to be back-pedalling after the bad publicity.

casebro · 30th June 2010, 04:04 PM

There are many exotic game farms in the U.S. It's apparently legal to hunt them as ummm 'non-native species". Merely livestock getting slaughtered.

Source is everything. Wild shot game from Africa is pretty illegal to trade in. Texas game farms, something else.

And even under the CITEs treaty, if you legally shot an elephant, you can legally bring home, and possess, the ivory. I suppose that is where the 'illegal to trade' line comes in- legal to bring in your own meat, illegal to sell it to me.

ETA, there is a good business in trading with zoos for their excess inventory. Between zoos, to and from game farms. Do you think they cremate the remains, or sell meat by the pound?

bluesjnr · 30th June 2010, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

However wild animals are different from farm animals. An extreme example are sheep bred for wool. They need to be fleeced at least every few years or they will die. Wild sheep do not have this problem. A human breeder would not breed an animal that is hard to control, yet that is the sort of animal that will survive in the wild.

My emphasis.

What is it that kills these sheep "bred for wool"?

You seem to know something about the subject so can you tell me how "wild sheep" differ in that they have somehow split from their sheep brethren and can survive non fleecing "at least every few years"

kerikiwi · 30th June 2010, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

My emphasis.

What is it that kills these sheep "bred for wool"?

You seem to know something about the subject so can you tell me how "wild sheep" differ in that they have somehow split from their sheep brethren and can survive non fleecing "at least every few years"

Sheep bred for wool become extremely heavily burdened with fleece when not shorn regularly. They eventually can barely walk, and are subject to extreme heat stress.

Cain · 30th June 2010, 09:04 PM

Sounds yummy. What's the big deal? If you don't eat lion meat then you're a pussy. ****, I eat rhino. I eat dolphin. You can eat my words. I have guns. I **** a lot of women. I've ********** your mom. More than once. I put beagle meat on my bagels. I have "manly man" tattooed on my cock. Your mom ate my words.

GrouchoMarxist · 30th June 2010, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Cain

Sounds yummy.

Tastes like chicken.

By the way, I have "Manly Man of La Mancha" tatooed on mine.

Ixion · 1st July 2010, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Cain

Sounds yummy. What's the big deal? If you don't eat lion meat then you're a pussy. ****, I eat rhino. I eat dolphin. You can eat my words. I have guns. I **** a lot of women. I've ********** your mom. More than once. I put beagle meat on my bagels. I have "manly man" tattooed on my cock. Your mom ate my words.

Well, the thread drifted a bit. I didn't mean it as "Should lions be eaten?", which is where it seemed to go. My original intent was "Is paying an animal rescue group to clear one's conscience of eating a threatened species an appropriate way to atone?" and "Should the rescue group take the money, or were they right to refuse it?"

Cain · 1st July 2010, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by GrouchoMarxist

By the way, I have "Manly Man of La Mancha" tatooed on mine.

I was gonna do that... but then I wouldn't have had enough room for the Second Amendment.

GrouchoMarxist · 1st July 2010, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Cain

I was gonna do that... but then I wouldn't have had enough room for the Second Amendment.

Good call. Now you can go around saying that your unit was given a favorable ruling by the scotus.

All I can do is sing Golden Helmet of Mambrino

GrouchoMarxist · 1st July 2010, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Ixion

Well, the thread drifted a bit. I didn't mean it as "Should lions be eaten?", which is where it seemed to go. My original intent was "Is paying an animal rescue group to clear one's conscience of eating a threatened species an appropriate way to atone?" and "Should the rescue group take the money, or were they right to refuse it?"

http://www.azcentral.com/community/m...-abrk0628.html

Quote:

Jennifer Berry, of Arizona Rescue, said in his original email Selogie offered to donate either $100 or $2.50 per burger sold and asked them for permission to use their name when he emailed and posted in response to the protests. Berry said she was planning to return the donation, because they did not want to "profit from the killing of cats, albeit lions."

"You don't get to kill one cat and give to another," Berry said.

I can see Selogie's logic, but I don't know about Berry.

29th June 2010, 09:47 AM	#1
Ixion Inquiring Mind Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,287	Clearing one's conscience Interesting article I came across. It is very short, but it brought up some thoughts. Not sure which sub-forum I should put it in though, so if a mod thinks it should go somewhere else, feel free to move it. Basically, a restaurant in Mesa, Arizona (a suburb of Phoenix) decides to sell lion burgers. These burgers are made with a combination of beef and African lion meat. The restaurant owner feels bad about it and offers a cash donation to an animal rescue group and asks patrons to also donate to the rescue group. The rescue group rejects the money because of how it was obtained. Here is a link to the article: Rescue group rejects cash from lion burger sales So, several questions in my mind arose from this: 1. How difficult is it to obtain lion meat? Aren't African lions a threatened wildlife group? 2. Are there laws about the preparation and sale of exotic meats for consumption? 3. The amount of money offered was only $100 (I don't know how much he charged for a lion burger, but I expect it would be rather more than a typical beef burger). Should the restaurant owner have offered more, especially if he felt bad about selling the burgers? 4. Is this a good method of atonement (atone being loosely defined here)? 5. Should the rescue group have accepted the money, even if it was from a source they whole-heartedly disagreed with? To me, this is a sticky situation, even without bringing in all sorts of slippery slope arguments. What do you think?
	__________________ Avatar kindly animated by Paulhoff. Because the last time I was playing Friday night, we ended up with the Ixion Fiasco - Horatius

29th June 2010, 10:05 AM	#3
RenaissanceBiker Eats shoots and leaves. Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 6,803	I'm pretty sure selling lion meat in South Carolina would be illegal. How does this guy get it? Did a wholeseller approach him with lion meat or the pre-packaged burgers? Does he obtain the lion meat from overseas and make the burgers himself? Is it inspected by the US FDA?
	__________________ "Truth does not contradict truth." - St. Augustine "Faith often contradicts faith. Therefore faith is not an indication of truth." - RenaissanceBiker

29th June 2010, 10:13 AM	#4
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,517	CNN did an investigation about the source of the lion meat. The source of the meat is...rather ambiguous, but it seems to be legal to eat lion in the US.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

29th June 2010, 10:16 AM	#5
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	It is legal to eat lion meat in the US but it is illegal to trade in it. Where the heck did it come from?
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett

29th June 2010, 10:38 AM	#6
Ixion Inquiring Mind Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,287	Well, apparently (according to the CNN link that Cleon provided), a meat distributor outside of Chicago obtained it for the restaurant. The distributor claims that the animals were inspected by the USDA. However, the USDA states that lion meat falls under the jurisdiction of the FDA. Nevertheless, overall, it seems that no one seems to be too sure of trading lion meat. The distributor says the meat is a "by-product" of the lion because the animals are killed for fur. Smells like a loop-hole to me.
	__________________ Avatar kindly animated by Paulhoff. Because the last time I was playing Friday night, we ended up with the Ixion Fiasco - Horatius

29th June 2010, 10:02 AM	#2
Meclizine Scholar Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Paradise, California Posts: 90	If he feels bad then he shouldn't have sold burgers with lion meat in them. I don't know what was going through his head but this seems simple to me.

29th June 2010, 10:52 AM	#7
paximperium Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Location: Silicon Valley-Stuck between Google and Apple Posts: 10,727	Originally Posted by Ixion Well, apparently (according to the CNN link that Cleon provided), a meat distributor outside of Chicago obtained it for the restaurant. The distributor claims that the animals were inspected by the USDA. However, the USDA states that lion meat falls under the jurisdiction of the FDA. Nevertheless, overall, it seems that no one seems to be too sure of trading lion meat. The distributor says the meat is a "by-product" of the lion because the animals are killed for fur. Smells like a loop-hole to me. It should be the FDA. Imported foods are inspected by the FDA. They should be able to clearly produce the paperwork to support this claim...shouldn't they? Killing lions for fur is illegal and lion products are all illegal...how the heck is lion meat legal. The same laws apply to elephant byproducts, it is illegal to trade in ivory. If there is a meat loophole, it definitely should be closed.
	__________________ "The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan "They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett

29th June 2010, 12:28 PM	#8
Naddig74 Has a Rucksack Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Heading For the Hills Posts: 1,639	Something I've heard said is ''If you want to save a species from extinction, put it on the menu.'' All the rare breed farms in the UK that I've ever visited specialise in conserving certain breeds of pig or sheep or whatever, because they make such good eating. If somebody discovered that a daily bowl of Crispy Fried Panda reduced cholesterol or some such, we'd find a way to make the buggers breed.

29th June 2010, 02:43 PM	#9
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 17,179	Originally Posted by Naddig74 Something I've heard said is ''If you want to save a species from extinction, put it on the menu.'' All the rare breed farms in the UK that I've ever visited specialise in conserving certain breeds of pig or sheep or whatever, because they make such good eating. If somebody discovered that a daily bowl of Crispy Fried Panda reduced cholesterol or some such, we'd find a way to make the buggers breed. However wild animals are different from farm animals. An extreme example are sheep bred for wool. They need to be fleeced at least every few years or they will die. Wild sheep do not have this problem. A human breeder would not breed an animal that is hard to control, yet that is the sort of animal that will survive in the wild.

29th June 2010, 03:03 PM	#10
GrouchoMarxist Cowardly insulter of Buddhism Join Date: May 2008 Location: Surly Bonds correctional facility Posts: 939	"Welcome to the mysterious world of back-alley exotic meat purveyance." Feel free to browse around.
	__________________ I can't believe that having said what I said was interpreted as having been what I said when I said it, because I said it where I said it, when I said it, and who I said it to. Only in America!

29th June 2010, 07:16 PM	#11
kerikiwi Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bay of Islands NZ Posts: 5,845	This is silly beyond belief. If the owner thinks he shouldn't be selling lion meat, he shouldn't sell it. If he thinks it's okay, he shouldn't be trying to atone for doing something that he doesn't think is wrong.

29th June 2010, 07:26 PM	#12
GrouchoMarxist Cowardly insulter of Buddhism Join Date: May 2008 Location: Surly Bonds correctional facility Posts: 939	Originally Posted by kerikiwi This is silly beyond belief. If the owner thinks he shouldn't be selling lion meat, he shouldn't sell it. If he thinks it's okay, he shouldn't be trying to atone for doing something that he doesn't think is wrong. It's a silly world. I suspect the bad publicity may have something to do with his desire to repent. Edit: Actually I think repent is the wrong word. A special dispensation from the animal rights activists is what he's after, I think.
	__________________ I can't believe that having said what I said was interpreted as having been what I said when I said it, because I said it where I said it, when I said it, and who I said it to. Only in America! Last edited by GrouchoMarxist; 29th June 2010 at 07:35 PM.

30th June 2010, 10:39 AM	#13
Ixion Inquiring Mind Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,287	I have to agree with some of the comments above. If it is not illegal to eat lion meat, but it is illegal to sell it, then why hasn't there been any legal actions? The distributor was convicted in 2003 for such transactions and served a 6 month prison term. That doesn't excuse him from being convicted again of the same type of crime 7 years later. Actually, it seems that this is because lion meat is not protected. The distributor's original sentence was for selling tiger and leopard meat, which is protected. This sounds like there needs to be a review of federally protected species. I just love this quote from the distributor too: Quote: Do you question where chickens come from when you go to Brown's Chicken or Boston Market? Just because people don't, doesn't mean they shouldn't. USDA regulates these meats. When food is not properly inspected, then problems arise. The recent E. coli outbreaks seemed to be linked to poor inspection of food-stuffs. As for the restaurant owner, I agree that he only seems to be back-pedalling after the bad publicity.
	__________________ Avatar kindly animated by Paulhoff. Because the last time I was playing Friday night, we ended up with the Ixion Fiasco - Horatius

30th June 2010, 04:04 PM	#14
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,792	There are many exotic game farms in the U.S. It's apparently legal to hunt them as ummm 'non-native species". Merely livestock getting slaughtered. Source is everything. Wild shot game from Africa is pretty illegal to trade in. Texas game farms, something else. And even under the CITEs treaty, if you legally shot an elephant, you can legally bring home, and possess, the ivory. I suppose that is where the 'illegal to trade' line comes in- legal to bring in your own meat, illegal to sell it to me. ETA, there is a good business in trading with zoos for their excess inventory. Between zoos, to and from game farms. Do you think they cremate the remains, or sell meat by the pound?
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,792	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts. Last edited by casebro; 30th June 2010 at 04:06 PM.

30th June 2010, 04:42 PM	#15
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Not where I should be. Posts: 2,167	Originally Posted by rjh01 However wild animals are different from farm animals. An extreme example are sheep bred for wool. They need to be fleeced at least every few years or they will die. Wild sheep do not have this problem. A human breeder would not breed an animal that is hard to control, yet that is the sort of animal that will survive in the wild. My emphasis. What is it that kills these sheep "bred for wool"? You seem to know something about the subject so can you tell me how "wild sheep" differ in that they have somehow split from their sheep brethren and can survive non fleecing "at least every few years"
	__________________ A baby smoking? That's child abuse - UncaYimmy Your avatar really cracked me up the first hundred or so times I saw it...Now, it gets on my nerves.. - Skeptical Greg

30th June 2010, 08:59 PM	#16
kerikiwi Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bay of Islands NZ Posts: 5,845	Originally Posted by bluesjnr My emphasis. What is it that kills these sheep "bred for wool"? You seem to know something about the subject so can you tell me how "wild sheep" differ in that they have somehow split from their sheep brethren and can survive non fleecing "at least every few years" Sheep bred for wool become extremely heavily burdened with fleece when not shorn regularly. They eventually can barely walk, and are subject to extreme heat stress.

30th June 2010, 09:04 PM	#17
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,935	Sounds yummy. What's the big deal? If you don't eat lion meat then you're a pussy. **, I eat rhino. I eat dolphin. You can eat my words. I have guns. I a lot of women. I've ******** your mom. More than once. I put beagle meat on my bagels. I have "manly man" tattooed on my cock. Your mom ate my words.
	__________________ *Arrested Development* is coming back! Michael (to GOB): Get rid of the Seaward. Lucille: I’ll leave when I’m good and ready.

30th June 2010, 09:18 PM	#18
GrouchoMarxist Cowardly insulter of Buddhism Join Date: May 2008 Location: Surly Bonds correctional facility Posts: 939	Originally Posted by Cain Sounds yummy. Tastes like chicken. By the way, I have "Manly Man of La Mancha" tatooed on mine.
	__________________ I can't believe that having said what I said was interpreted as having been what I said when I said it, because I said it where I said it, when I said it, and who I said it to. Only in America! Last edited by GrouchoMarxist; 30th June 2010 at 09:34 PM.

1st July 2010, 10:35 AM	#19
Ixion Inquiring Mind Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,287	Originally Posted by Cain Sounds yummy. What's the big deal? If you don't eat lion meat then you're a pussy. **, I eat rhino. I eat dolphin. You can eat my words. I have guns. I a lot of women. I've ******** your mom. More than once. I put beagle meat on my bagels. I have "manly man" tattooed on my cock. Your mom ate my words. Well, the thread drifted a bit. I didn't mean it as "Should lions be eaten?", which is where it seemed to go. My original intent was "Is paying an animal rescue group to clear one's conscience of eating a threatened species an appropriate way to atone?" and "Should the rescue group take the money, or were they right to refuse it?"
	__________________ Avatar kindly animated by Paulhoff. Because the last time I was playing Friday night, we ended up with the Ixion Fiasco - Horatius

1st July 2010, 04:44 PM	#20
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,935	Originally Posted by GrouchoMarxist By the way, I have "Manly Man of La Mancha" tatooed on mine. I was gonna do that... but then I wouldn't have had enough room for the Second Amendment.
	__________________ *Arrested Development* is coming back! Michael (to GOB): Get rid of the Seaward. Lucille: I’ll leave when I’m good and ready.

1st July 2010, 06:37 PM	#21
GrouchoMarxist Cowardly insulter of Buddhism Join Date: May 2008 Location: Surly Bonds correctional facility Posts: 939	Originally Posted by Cain I was gonna do that... but then I wouldn't have had enough room for the Second Amendment. Good call. Now you can go around saying that your unit was given a favorable ruling by the scotus. All I can do is sing Golden Helmet of Mambrino
	__________________ I can't believe that having said what I said was interpreted as having been what I said when I said it, because I said it where I said it, when I said it, and who I said it to. Only in America! Last edited by GrouchoMarxist; 1st July 2010 at 07:56 PM.

1st July 2010, 07:47 PM	#22
GrouchoMarxist Cowardly insulter of Buddhism Join Date: May 2008 Location: Surly Bonds correctional facility Posts: 939	Originally Posted by Ixion Well, the thread drifted a bit. I didn't mean it as "Should lions be eaten?", which is where it seemed to go. My original intent was "Is paying an animal rescue group to clear one's conscience of eating a threatened species an appropriate way to atone?" and "Should the rescue group take the money, or were they right to refuse it?" http://www.azcentral.com/community/m...-abrk0628.html Quote: Jennifer Berry, of Arizona Rescue, said in his original email Selogie offered to donate either $100 or $2.50 per burger sold and asked them for permission to use their name when he emailed and posted in response to the protests. Berry said she was planning to return the donation, because they did not want to "profit from the killing of cats, albeit lions." "You don't get to kill one cat and give to another," Berry said. I can see Selogie's logic, but I don't know about Berry.
	__________________ I can't believe that having said what I said was interpreted as having been what I said when I said it, because I said it where I said it, when I said it, and who I said it to. Only in America!