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Elizabeth I · 17th July 2010, 12:48 PM

Has anybody else seen the new BP TV ad with the good ol' boy who's "from around here" talking about how he's goin' to work real hard to clean up this here mess? Nobody cares more about this here Gulf Coast than he does!

Hello, BP? Talking crap in a southern accent doesn't make you any more credible than talking crap in a British accent.

And it doesn't make us like you any better, or feel any more inclined to forgive your incredible carelessness, arrogance and indifference.

MarkCorrigan · 17th July 2010, 12:49 PM

Ah BP, the soulless face of Britain. Keep on truckin' you amoral bastards.

calebprime · 17th July 2010, 12:56 PM

Why do you folks hate pretty green flower-petals?

And why won't you think of the CEO? He'd like his life back. Have you no pity for him? He's a person, too.

phantomb · 17th July 2010, 01:10 PM

What a ~~slimy~~ oily move!

ShadowSot · 17th July 2010, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by calebprime

Why do you folks hate pretty green flower-petals?

And why won't you think of the CEO? He'd like his life back. Have you no pity for him? He's a person, too.

Great Shades of Chris Cocker Batman!
:P

Quinn · 17th July 2010, 01:27 PM

I have this vision of that guy being some anonymous, paper-pushing office drone until this mess went down, and someone in PR noticed that Drone #4275B was an authentic good ol' boy from down da bayou, at which point he was informed that if we wanted to remain in BP's employ, he would accept this promotion to the position of Head Cleanup Guy (chief duty: producing TV soundbytes).

Elizabeth I · 17th July 2010, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Quinn

I have this vision of that guy being some anonymous, paper-pushing office drone until this mess went down, and someone in PR noticed that Drone #4275B was an authentic good ol' boy from down da bayou, at which point he was informed that if we wanted to remain in BP's employ, he would accept this promotion to the position of Head Cleanup Guy (chief duty: producing TV soundbytes).

Tricky · 17th July 2010, 02:37 PM

I don't know about that ad, but I know about another one. It featured Darryl Willis. He's a geophysicist that I worked with in the South Louisiana group. That was about ten years ago, and Darryl has advanced pretty far. He's not a paper-pusher He's the head of an exploration team and is making quite a name for himself. And yes, he truly is from Louisiana (as many of BPs staff are) and that really is his accent.

And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life.

If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there. Oh, and why don't you bike or walk there. You wouldn't want to use any gasoline, because that would mean we have to keep drilling oil wells.

Alt+F4 · 17th July 2010, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life.

If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there.

I agree with you Tricky, but BP should just stop the television ads, it doesn't help anything.

Tricky · 17th July 2010, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Alt+F4

I agree with you Tricky, but BP should just stop the television ads, it doesn't help anything.

It doesn't do any good with incredibly cynical people, but I think a lot of people out there don't realize that BP is composed of a whole lot of people like me and Darryl. We're not a bunch of faceless paper-pushers and we really do care.

Remember the Exxon method? After Valdez, there was stony silence and un-cooperativeness and little or no information given to the press. You really think that's the better way? Maybe it worked better to keep the stock up, but it BP has committed itself to being open and accessible about this. And compared to a lot of companies after a disaster, I think you would have to admit that they've been so. Our CEO is a household name now. Every time there is a story, there is a name attached, not "just Vice President of Technical Finagling". And people like Darryl Willis and whoever that guy was in the ad Elizabeth mentioned. (I hardly watch TV anymore. Too depressing.)

We are skeptics here, that is true. But skepticism is not synonymous with cynicism. Sure we want to portray our company in the best light possible, but I can say from first-hand knowledge that this is not some lie perpetuated by Wall Street. I know these folks. Lots of them. I am one. And I'm proud of the way my company has not run away from criticism, but has come through with the information, the people, and the cash to try to deal with this disaster.

I think, maybe a few years from now, when people can look back on this disaster without the harsh light of the TV cameras photographing the same dead bird thousands of times, maybe they will see it too.

The Central Scrutinizer · 17th July 2010, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

Has anybody else seen the new BP TV ad with the good ol' boy who's "from around here" talking about how he's goin' to work real hard to clean up this here mess? Nobody cares more about this here Gulf Coast than he does!

Hello, BP? Talking crap in a southern accent doesn't make you any more credible than talking crap in a British accent.

And it doesn't make us like you any better, or feel any more inclined to forgive your incredible carelessness, arrogance and indifference.

I have to admit, I fell for it.

Rolfe · 17th July 2010, 03:50 PM

And you still think you were taken for a sucker by cynical PR, after reading Tricky's posts? Just because Elizabeth is cynical?

Rolfe.

Cavemonster · 17th July 2010, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

It doesn't do any good with incredibly cynical people, but I think a lot of people out there don't realize that BP is composed of a whole lot of people like me and Darryl. We're not a bunch of faceless paper-pushers and we really do care.

Remember the Exxon method? After Valdez, there was stony silence and un-cooperativeness and little or no information given to the press. You really think that's the better way? Maybe it worked better to keep the stock up, but it BP has committed itself to being open and accessible about this. And compared to a lot of companies after a disaster, I think you would have to admit that they've been so. Our CEO is a household name now. Every time there is a story, there is a name attached, not "just Vice President of Technical Finagling". And people like Darryl Willis and whoever that guy was in the ad Elizabeth mentioned. (I hardly watch TV anymore. Too depressing.)

We are skeptics here, that is true. But skepticism is not synonymous with cynicism. Sure we want to portray our company in the best light possible, but I can say from first-hand knowledge that this is not some lie perpetuated by Wall Street. I know these folks. Lots of them. I am one. And I'm proud of the way my company has not run away from criticism, but has come through with the information, the people, and the cash to try to deal with this disaster.

I think, maybe a few years from now, when people can look back on this disaster without the harsh light of the TV cameras photographing the same dead bird thousands of times, maybe they will see it too.

Tricky, it becomes a question of who the we're talking about when we're talking about BP.

Of course many of the employees, and even the highest levels of management may feel awful about this disaster and want to stop the damage as much and as quickly as possible.

But what remains, is that this same company downplayed threats when they wanted to get clearance to build these kinds of things in the first place, and that they did not have adequate plans in place to deal with what they knew was a very possible disaster. They knew that that particular well was a risk and purposefully decided to sacrifice safety measures to cut costs

They lied about the extent of the oil spilling out.

The company as a whole has behaved dishonestly and destructively. And with these ads, they are attempting to co-opt the real human emotions of their employees to help quell consumer distrust and ultimately get people buying their product again. By buying their product again, you vote with your dollars for the people at the top who allowed this to happen.

Tricky, I am in no way questioning your sincerity in feeling terrible about this disaster, but I'm puzzled that you don't mind that sincerity being harnessed to try to save the higher-ups who created this terrible situation.

Elizabeth I · 17th July 2010, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

I don't know about that ad, but I know about another one. It featured Darryl Willis. He's a geophysicist that I worked with in the South Louisiana group. That was about ten years ago, and Darryl has advanced pretty far. He's not a paper-pusher He's the head of an exploration team and is making quite a name for himself. And yes, he truly is from Louisiana (as many of BPs staff are) and that really is his accent.

And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life.

If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there. Oh, and why don't you bike or walk there. You wouldn't want to use any gasoline, because that would mean we have to keep drilling oil wells.

Tricky, I'm sorry I offended you. Of course there are decent people working for BP. There are decent people working for just about any company. I can't quite get into schadenfreude about the bankruptcy of one of my former employers because I know it means a bunch of good people are going througn a hard time.

And no need to create a strawman that I said anything about stopping oil exploration and production (I didn't, did I?)

But BP's record is not exactly golden.

As a southerner with a pretty pronounced accent myself, I resent it when people try to talk "lak me." Do I think that ad is cynical? Do I think it's exploitive? Hell, yes, I do.

And...well, what Cavemonster said.

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

Tricky, it becomes a question of who we're talking about when we're talking about BP.

Of course many of the employees, and even the highest levels of management may feel awful about this disaster and want to stop the damage as much and as quickly as possible.

Bt what remains, is that this same company downplayed threats when they wanted to get clearance to build these kinds of things in the first place, and that they did not have. They knew that that particular well was a risk and purposefully decided to sacrifice safety measures to cut costs

They lied about the extent of the oil spilling out.

The company as a whole has behaved dishonestly and destructively. And with these ads, they are attempting to co-opt the real human emotions of their employees to help quell consumer distrust and ultimately get people buying their product again. By buying their product again, you vote with your dollars for the people at the top who allowed this to happen.

Tricky, I am in no way questioning your sincerity in feeling terrible about this disaster, but I'm puzzled that you don't mind that sincerity being harnessed to try to save the higher-ups who created this terrible situation.

TraneWreck · 17th July 2010, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

It doesn't do any good with incredibly cynical people, but I think a lot of people out there don't realize that BP is composed of a whole lot of people like me and Darryl. We're not a bunch of faceless paper-pushers and we really do care.

[...]

I think, maybe a few years from now, when people can look back on this disaster without the harsh light of the TV cameras photographing the same dead bird thousands of times, maybe they will see it too.

We can separate your governing structure from the people who work in the company, just like we don't blame the soldiers for starting the wars in the Mid-East.

But what would really help BP in the PR department is not, say, lying about the amount of oil leaking from the pipe to limit liability (I trust your company's abilities enough to guess that they just didn't make a mistake and were thus off by a factor of 60-100). Or avoid lobbying for the release of international terrorists to secure drilling agreements. Or not running up 760 "Egregious" OSHA violations during the same period Exxon had 1.

I don't know at what level of the command structure folks start making the dangerous decisions, but a few commercials won't wipe away the record. We've decided that the primary legal obligation of corporations in the United States is to make money for the shareholders. I think that's a terrible decision, but fine, a lot of what went wrong in this disaster was BP pursuing their legal obligations (and skirting around some others). BP is obviously not remotely the only company doing this, they've just chosen a line of work that can result in thousands of people losing their livelihoods when something goes wrong.

But surely you can see why people are upset with BP expending dollars and efforts in a PR campaign, when dollars and effort could have forestalled this disaster. It's like a celebrity or politician going on TV and apologizing for cheating on their spouse: they're not actually sorry for the infidelity, otherwise they wouldn't have done it in the first place. They're sorry they got caught.

WildCat · 17th July 2010, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

As a southerner with a pretty pronounced accent myself, I resent it when people try to talk "lak me." Do I think that ad is cynical? Do I think it's exploitive? Hell, yes, I do.

Yeah, that British guy worked so well...

Furcifer · 18th July 2010, 01:08 AM

760 OHSA violations. This company has the option to adopt safety standards above OHSA standards and be exempt from inspection, and instead they have over $100 Million in fines, and quite likely Billions to pay to clean up the spill.

Whoever is responsible for making the decision not to adopt better standards, and not preventing these OHSA violations needs to be fired.

I know they are going to clean this up and I know they are going to pay for it. I want to know TODAY what they are doing to prevent this from happening and it better involve not getting any more OHSA violations.

My job as a Supervisor was to make sure there were no OHSA violations in my area. Before I turned on my computer I made sure there was nothing that could harm or injure my employees. If I found something I didn't leave until it was fixed. It had to be.

Quote:

After the BP refinery in Texas City blew up on March 23, 2005, the U.S. Chemical Safety Board, an independent federal agency, concluded that the disaster was caused by “organizational and safety deficiencies at all levels of the BP Corporation. Warning signs of a possible disaster were present for several years, but company officials did not intervene effectively to prevent it.

If this company can't operate a safe work place, it doesn't need to operate. Neither do any of the other refineries that got 1500 Serious Citations. The whole industry needs some drastic changes.

So the next commercial I want to see is "Here's our new Head of Safety for North America and Environmental Engineering, and they will be hiring a whole new staff to go around to our all of our plants, tomorrow, so this this won't ever happen again"

Granted OHSA isn't exactly related to what happened in the Gulf, but a company that doesn't care about its employees sure as heck doesn't care about the public or the environment.

ponderingturtle · 18th July 2010, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

I don't know about that ad, but I know about another one. It featured Darryl Willis. He's a geophysicist that I worked with in the South Louisiana group. That was about ten years ago, and Darryl has advanced pretty far. He's not a paper-pusher He's the head of an exploration team and is making quite a name for himself. And yes, he truly is from Louisiana (as many of BPs staff are) and that really is his accent.

And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life.

If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there. Oh, and why don't you bike or walk there. You wouldn't want to use any gasoline, because that would mean we have to keep drilling oil wells.

And have pipelines leak and refineries explode, because you know maintenance is expensive.

Darat · 18th July 2010, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

...snip... , but has come through with the information, the people, and the cash to try to deal with this disaster.

...snip...

As ever I would say follow the money - there has never been any sign since the disaster happened that something has been delayed because BP was slow or reluctant to pay for it, money has been flowing out of BP faster that the oil spill itself, I can't think of any other company that has ever reacted in such a way to a disaster of their own making. It's set a very high benchmark for other companies to be measured against in future disasters (and there will be future disasters).

Darat · 18th July 2010, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

And have pipelines leak and refineries explode, because you know maintenance is expensive.

In BPs defence this was changing, a few years ago it certainly was a company that I considered would rather pay out a few million because someone died in a preventable incident rather than commit to spending several more million to ensure the incident couldn't happen.

Cavemonster · 18th July 2010, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

As ever I would say follow the money - there has never been any sign since the disaster happened that something has been delayed because BP was slow or reluctant to pay for it.

Frankly, this would be hard to know without actually being inside the confidential meetings being held there. This is a one of a kind disaster, so from the outside, it's impossible to know if possible solutions are being shot down or delayed because of reluctance to pay. The reason so much money is flowing out of BP is that the early attempts to stop the flow did not work. I don't attribute any nobility to it. They are dead as a company until they stop the oil from flowing out.

What we do know, from memos, is that of the 11 people killed in the blast, some of them may likely have survived if BP had bought the stronger shelters specifically designed to protect against such a blast, which they specifically declined to buy, instead opting for the cheapest shelters.

So we have a documentation of them putting profit above human lives in a gamble and losing those lives. I am less apt to give them the benefit of the doubt in their other actions.

quarky · 18th July 2010, 07:48 AM

If it was really cynical, wouldn't the spokesperson be a mega-babe in a bikini, holding a power tool and explaining the next move?

MG1962 · 18th July 2010, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by quarky

If it was really cynical, wouldn't the spokesperson be a mega-babe in a bikini, holding a power tool and explaining the next move?

she would be firing a 50 cal machine gun

Tricky · 18th July 2010, 11:49 AM

Sorry, I haven't had a lot of time to participate more in this thread. For one thing, I have stated my position. For another, I recognize that a BP employee can hardly be unbiased. And for a third, I had to change my car oil and dump the old oil in the duck pond near my house. Being evil is a full time job.

Stellafane · 18th July 2010, 01:39 PM

From what I can see, BP ***** up and ***** up big. Everybody ***** up, from individuals to big corporations. It's what you do after you *** up that matters. It looks to me as though BP is handling this as well as, or better than, any other company has who's been in a remotely commensurate situation. They're an easy target and will be for quite a while. But in the end, I think of all the companies this could have happened to, we're lucky it's BP (if that last statement makes even a lick of sense).

As for the ad, damned if you do, damned if you don't, I think. If they said nothing, people would probably be on them for not caring. If they had some suit in a British accent talking down to us, we'd accuse them of elitism or something. If it's jes' plain folks, threads like this happen. All I know is, BP is sure pumping a lot of money into the US because of this. That may or may not compensate for anything, but it's at least a start.

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Elizabeth I · 18th July 2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

All I know is, BP is sure pumping a lot of money into the US because of this.

So they're to be commended for doing the least they could do, which is to clean up the incredible mess their corner-cutting caused?

And what's wrong with someone with a neutral accent saying, "This and this and this are what we are doing"? There's no need to do the tug-at-the-heartstrings thing in a southern accent.

Tricky · 18th July 2010, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

And what's wrong with someone with a neutral accent saying, "This and this and this are what we are doing"? There's no need to do the tug-at-the-heartstrings thing in a southern accent.

There using people who are actually from the affected states. If you're from Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama, there's a pretty good chance you have a southern accent. As I said, in the one that used my friend Darryl Willis, that's what he actually sounds like.

rwguinn · 18th July 2010, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

So they're to be commended for doing the least they could do, which is to clean up the incredible mess their corner-cutting caused?

And what's wrong with someone with a neutral accent saying, "This and this and this are what we are doing"? There's no need to do the tug-at-the-heartstrings thing in a southern accent.

If you go looking for something to be insulted over, you can always find it.
And you definitely went looking if this accent offends you.

steve s · 18th July 2010, 03:26 PM

I heard a radio ad from BP in which they're reminding people that the employees at your local BP gas station are your neighbors, and if you boycott BP you'll be hurting them.

Steve S

PogoPedant · 18th July 2010, 03:43 PM

What's a neutral accent?

ponderingturtle · 18th July 2010, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Stellafane

From what I can see, BP ***** up and ***** up big. Everybody ***** up, from individuals to big corporations. It's what you do after you *** up that matters. It looks to me as though BP is handling this as well as, or better than, any other company has who's been in a remotely commensurate situation. They're an easy target and will be for quite a while. But in the end, I think of all the companies this could have happened to, we're lucky it's BP (if that last statement makes even a lick of sense).

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Moderated content removed.

The thing is that this is the third major **** up that they have had. They didn't seem to do much when their pipeline broke because they didn't bother to maintain it. Then when their refinery blew up killing a bunch of people they don't seem to have changed much after that.

So why should we think that this unlike the previous problems they have had from doing things in an improper manner will change anything?

Stellafane · 18th July 2010, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

So why should we think that this unlike the previous problems they have had from doing things in an improper manner will change anything?

Well, $10 billion (and counting) and a bit of negative publicity is probably fairly good motivation.

Checkmite · 18th July 2010, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

There using people who are actually from the affected states. If you're from Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama, there's a pretty good chance you have a southern accent. As I said, in the one that used my friend Darryl Willis, that's what he actually sounds like.

This. Come on, guys; BP employees in Louisiana are likely from Louisiana. The notion that BP went out of its way, or would even have had to go out of its way, to find someone specifically with a southern accent for PR sake isn't just cynical, it's kind of stupid. The spill is in the Gulf. You expect them to use someone from Minnesota for the ads instead?

If they did a commercial where Tricky was explaining that he would be there in the Gulf until the mess is cleaned up, would you be feeling all patronized?

Tricky · 18th July 2010, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

If they did a commercial where Tricky was explaining that he would be there in the Gulf until the mess is cleaned up, would you be feeling all patronized?

Probably. I have a southern accent. I'm from Alabama. Every summer when I was a child we'd go to my grandfather's cabin in Gulf Shores and play on the beautiful white sand beaches. I am heartbroken that those beaches are now dirty. I hope we will be able to make them recover. I'm sure going to try.

Mycroft · 18th July 2010, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Stellafane

From what I can see, BP ***** up and ***** up big. Everybody ***** up, from individuals to big corporations. It's what you do after you *** up that matters. It looks to me as though BP is handling this as well as, or better than, any other company has who's been in a remotely commensurate situation. They're an easy target and will be for quite a while. But in the end, I think of all the companies this could have happened to, we're lucky it's BP (if that last statement makes even a lick of sense).

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Moderated content removed.

Not entirely. What also matters is what steps you take not to **** to begin with. It's great that BP is making a huge effort to clean this up and is being very liberal with the checkbook for clean-up efforts and for people who's livelihoods were destroyed, but that's only a mitigating factor.

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Originally Posted by Stellafane

As for the ad, damned if you do, damned if you don't, I think. If they said nothing, people would probably be on them for not caring. If they had some suit in a British accent talking down to us, we'd accuse them of elitism or something. If it's jes' plain folks, threads like this happen. All I know is, BP is sure pumping a lot of money into the US because of this. That may or may not compensate for anything, but it's at least a start.

There is a lot of anger. While BP may be doing all the right things now, there is plenty of evidence that it was their egregious disregard for safety that caused the mess to begin with. I don't think doing all the right things after the fact absolves them of responsibility for negligence from before.

PhantomWolf · 18th July 2010, 05:54 PM

Meanwhile Halibuton is getting another free pass.....

TraneWreck · 18th July 2010, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

This. Come on, guys; BP employees in Louisiana are likely from Louisiana. The notion that BP went out of its way, or would even have had to go out of its way, to find someone specifically with a southern accent for PR sake isn't just cynical, it's kind of stupid. The spill is in the Gulf. You expect them to use someone from Minnesota for the ads instead?

If they did a commercial where Tricky was explaining that he would be there in the Gulf until the mess is cleaned up, would you be feeling all patronized?

Originally Posted by Tricky

Probably. I have a southern accent. I'm from Alabama. Every summer when I was a child we'd go to my grandfather's cabin in Gulf Shores and play on the beautiful white sand beaches. I am heartbroken that those beaches are now dirty. I hope we will be able to make them recover. I'm sure going to try.

This is the exact sort of psychology that leads people to charge opponents of the Wars with "hating the troops."

What's obnoxious about choosing a local worker to deliver the message is that it wasn't the workers that *** up in the first place. It was policy decisions at the top. THey tried having their goofy English and Swedish spokespeople have a go at it, and they embarrassed themselves. So now they're trying to immunize themselves from criticism by hiding behind the workers who 1) are trying to earn an honest living and 2) will really do everything they can to fix this disaster.

I feel the same level of eye-rolling annoyance (notice it's not "rage" or "anger") at the BP commercial as I do when criticisms of Donald Rumsfeld are met with, "So you want the terrorists to kill our soldiers?"

And no, the spill and the war aren't of the same magnitude, but the attempt to hide behind the non-decision makers is the same.

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TraneWreck · 18th July 2010, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Meanwhile Halibuton is getting another free pass.....

Absolutely.

At this point a Haliburton **** is about like another porn star claiming she hooked up with Tiger Woods. Just not a story anymore...

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Cavemonster · 18th July 2010, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Probably. I have a southern accent. I'm from Alabama. Every summer when I was a child we'd go to my grandfather's cabin in Gulf Shores and play on the beautiful white sand beaches. I am heartbroken that those beaches are now dirty. I hope we will be able to make them recover. I'm sure going to try.

Tricky, I'd really like your take on my point above, that BP as a company is using the honest feelings of employees like you as a shield to deflect anger directed at the upper management who caused this crisis. That's what's repugnant to me.

They're making arguments that boycotting the company will only hurt employees, but what option does that leave us with? The weapon that the general public has in a capitalist society to enforce it's will is to vote with our dollars. By this logic, we can never decide to stop patronizing any large business no matter how horrible the externalities they create are, because every large company has employees who genuinely care and need their jobs.

As someone else stated, it's similar to the tactic of twisting anti-war sentiment up with anti-troop sentiment.

rwguinn · 18th July 2010, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

Tricky, I'd really like your take on my point above, that BP as a company is using the honest feelings of employees like you as a shield to deflect anger directed at the upper management who caused this crisis. That's what's repugnant to me.

They're making arguments that boycotting the company will only hurt employees, but what option does that leave us with? The weapon that the general public has in a capitalist society to enforce it's will is to vote with our dollars. By this logic, we can never decide to stop patronizing any large business no matter how horrible the externalities they create are, because every large company has employees who genuinely care and need their jobs.

As someone else stated, it's similar to the tactic of twisting anti-war sentiment up with anti-troop sentiment.

How 'bout "The big wigs ********** up. Now it's up to us local folks to fix it"?

17th July 2010, 12:48 PM	#1
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,356	It's not going to work, BP Has anybody else seen the new BP TV ad with the good ol' boy who's "from around here" talking about how he's goin' to work real hard to clean up this here mess? Nobody cares more about this here Gulf Coast than he does! Hello, BP? Talking crap in a southern accent doesn't make you any more credible than talking crap in a British accent. And it doesn't make us like you any better, or feel any more inclined to forgive your incredible carelessness, arrogance and indifference.
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...

17th July 2010, 12:49 PM	#2
MarkCorrigan Winter is Coming Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Middle of nowhere, UK. Posts: 7,167	Ah BP, the soulless face of Britain. Keep on truckin' you amoral bastards.
	__________________ Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data. It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz Now I lay me down to sleep, a bag of peanuts at my feet. If I should die before I wake, give them to my brother Jake.

17th July 2010, 12:56 PM	#3
calebprime Somewhat Elitist Parasite Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,764	Why do you folks hate pretty green flower-petals? And why won't you think of the CEO? He'd like his life back. Have you no pity for him? He's a person, too.
	__________________ Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory.

17th July 2010, 01:10 PM	#5
ShadowSot Muse Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pensacola Posts: 782	Originally Posted by calebprime Why do you folks hate pretty green flower-petals? And why won't you think of the CEO? He'd like his life back. Have you no pity for him? He's a person, too. Great Shades of Chris Cocker Batman! :P
	__________________ I love this crazy tragic, sometimes almost magic, awful beautiful life. - Darryl Worley The Stupid! It burns!

17th July 2010, 01:27 PM	#6
Quinn Breathtakingly blasphemous. Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,948	I have this vision of that guy being some anonymous, paper-pushing office drone until this mess went down, and someone in PR noticed that Drone #4275B was an authentic good ol' boy from down da bayou, at which point he was informed that if we wanted to remain in BP's employ, he would accept this promotion to the position of Head Cleanup Guy (chief duty: producing TV soundbytes).
	__________________ It's not a matter of living life without mystery or wonder. It's a matter of living life without the approval of people who ignorantly assume that by rejecting the irrational, I experience no mystery or wonder. And frankly, I do just fine without that.

17th July 2010, 01:10 PM	#4
phantomb Muse Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 567	What a ~~slimy~~ oily move!

17th July 2010, 01:39 PM	#7
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,356	Originally Posted by Quinn I have this vision of that guy being some anonymous, paper-pushing office drone until this mess went down, and someone in PR noticed that Drone #4275B was an authentic good ol' boy from down da bayou, at which point he was informed that if we wanted to remain in BP's employ, he would accept this promotion to the position of Head Cleanup Guy (chief duty: producing TV soundbytes).
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...

17th July 2010, 02:37 PM	#8
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,403	I don't know about that ad, but I know about another one. It featured Darryl Willis. He's a geophysicist that I worked with in the South Louisiana group. That was about ten years ago, and Darryl has advanced pretty far. He's not a paper-pusher He's the head of an exploration team and is making quite a name for himself. And yes, he truly is from Louisiana (as many of BPs staff are) and that really is his accent. And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life. If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there. Oh, and why don't you bike or walk there. You wouldn't want to use any gasoline, because that would mean we have to keep drilling oil wells.
	Last edited by Tricky; 17th July 2010 at 02:39 PM.

17th July 2010, 02:39 PM	#9
Alt+F4 diabolical globalist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Department of Abandoned Places Posts: 9,804	Originally Posted by Tricky And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life. If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there. I agree with you Tricky, but BP should just stop the television ads, it doesn't help anything.
	__________________ "My folks touched a lot of kids." - Jerry Sandusky

17th July 2010, 02:54 PM	#10
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,403	Originally Posted by Alt+F4 I agree with you Tricky, but BP should just stop the television ads, it doesn't help anything. It doesn't do any good with incredibly cynical people, but I think a lot of people out there don't realize that BP is composed of a whole lot of people like me and Darryl. We're not a bunch of faceless paper-pushers and we really do care. Remember the Exxon method? After Valdez, there was stony silence and un-cooperativeness and little or no information given to the press. You really think that's the better way? Maybe it worked better to keep the stock up, but it BP has committed itself to being open and accessible about this. And compared to a lot of companies after a disaster, I think you would have to admit that they've been so. Our CEO is a household name now. Every time there is a story, there is a name attached, not "just Vice President of Technical Finagling". And people like Darryl Willis and whoever that guy was in the ad Elizabeth mentioned. (I hardly watch TV anymore. Too depressing.) We are skeptics here, that is true. But skepticism is not synonymous with cynicism. Sure we want to portray our company in the best light possible, but I can say from first-hand knowledge that this is not some lie perpetuated by Wall Street. I know these folks. Lots of them. I am one. And I'm proud of the way my company has not run away from criticism, but has come through with the information, the people, and the cash to try to deal with this disaster. I think, maybe a few years from now, when people can look back on this disaster without the harsh light of the TV cameras photographing the same dead bird thousands of times, maybe they will see it too.

17th July 2010, 02:55 PM	#11
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,573	Originally Posted by Elizabeth I Has anybody else seen the new BP TV ad with the good ol' boy who's "from around here" talking about how he's goin' to work real hard to clean up this here mess? Nobody cares more about this here Gulf Coast than he does! Hello, BP? Talking crap in a southern accent doesn't make you any more credible than talking crap in a British accent. And it doesn't make us like you any better, or feel any more inclined to forgive your incredible carelessness, arrogance and indifference. I have to admit, I fell for it.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

17th July 2010, 03:50 PM	#12
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,407	And you still think you were taken for a sucker by cynical PR, after reading Tricky's posts? Just because Elizabeth is cynical? Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

17th July 2010, 03:57 PM	#13
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	Originally Posted by Tricky It doesn't do any good with incredibly cynical people, but I think a lot of people out there don't realize that BP is composed of a whole lot of people like me and Darryl. We're not a bunch of faceless paper-pushers and we really do care. Remember the Exxon method? After Valdez, there was stony silence and un-cooperativeness and little or no information given to the press. You really think that's the better way? Maybe it worked better to keep the stock up, but it BP has committed itself to being open and accessible about this. And compared to a lot of companies after a disaster, I think you would have to admit that they've been so. Our CEO is a household name now. Every time there is a story, there is a name attached, not "just Vice President of Technical Finagling". And people like Darryl Willis and whoever that guy was in the ad Elizabeth mentioned. (I hardly watch TV anymore. Too depressing.) We are skeptics here, that is true. But skepticism is not synonymous with cynicism. Sure we want to portray our company in the best light possible, but I can say from first-hand knowledge that this is not some lie perpetuated by Wall Street. I know these folks. Lots of them. I am one. And I'm proud of the way my company has not run away from criticism, but has come through with the information, the people, and the cash to try to deal with this disaster. I think, maybe a few years from now, when people can look back on this disaster without the harsh light of the TV cameras photographing the same dead bird thousands of times, maybe they will see it too. Tricky, it becomes a question of who the we're talking about when we're talking about BP. Of course many of the employees, and even the highest levels of management may feel awful about this disaster and want to stop the damage as much and as quickly as possible. But what remains, is that this same company downplayed threats when they wanted to get clearance to build these kinds of things in the first place, and that they did not have adequate plans in place to deal with what they knew was a very possible disaster. They knew that that particular well was a risk and purposefully decided to sacrifice safety measures to cut costs They lied about the extent of the oil spilling out. The company as a whole has behaved dishonestly and destructively. And with these ads, they are attempting to co-opt the real human emotions of their employees to help quell consumer distrust and ultimately get people buying their product again. By buying their product again, you vote with your dollars for the people at the top who allowed this to happen. Tricky, I am in no way questioning your sincerity in feeling terrible about this disaster, but I'm puzzled that you don't mind that sincerity being harnessed to try to save the higher-ups who created this terrible situation.
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON Last edited by Cavemonster; 17th July 2010 at 04:51 PM.

17th July 2010, 04:49 PM	#14
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,356	Originally Posted by Tricky I don't know about that ad, but I know about another one. It featured Darryl Willis. He's a geophysicist that I worked with in the South Louisiana group. That was about ten years ago, and Darryl has advanced pretty far. He's not a paper-pusher He's the head of an exploration team and is making quite a name for himself. And yes, he truly is from Louisiana (as many of BPs staff are) and that really is his accent. And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life. If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there. Oh, and why don't you bike or walk there. You wouldn't want to use any gasoline, because that would mean we have to keep drilling oil wells. Tricky, I'm sorry I offended you. Of course there are decent people working for BP. There are decent people working for just about any company. I can't quite get into schadenfreude about the bankruptcy of one of my former employers because I know it means a bunch of good people are going througn a hard time. And no need to create a strawman that I said anything about stopping oil exploration and production (I didn't, did I?) But BP's record is not exactly golden. As a southerner with a pretty pronounced accent myself, I resent it when people try to talk "lak me." Do I think that ad is cynical? Do I think it's exploitive? Hell, yes, I do. And...well, what Cavemonster said. Originally Posted by Cavemonster Tricky, it becomes a question of who we're talking about when we're talking about BP. Of course many of the employees, and even the highest levels of management may feel awful about this disaster and want to stop the damage as much and as quickly as possible. Bt what remains, is that this same company downplayed threats when they wanted to get clearance to build these kinds of things in the first place, and that they did not have. They knew that that particular well was a risk and purposefully decided to sacrifice safety measures to cut costs They lied about the extent of the oil spilling out. The company as a whole has behaved dishonestly and destructively. And with these ads, they are attempting to co-opt the real human emotions of their employees to help quell consumer distrust and ultimately get people buying their product again. By buying their product again, you vote with your dollars for the people at the top who allowed this to happen. Tricky, I am in no way questioning your sincerity in feeling terrible about this disaster, but I'm puzzled that you don't mind that sincerity being harnessed to try to save the higher-ups who created this terrible situation.
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...

17th July 2010, 04:53 PM	#15
TraneWreck Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 6,414	Originally Posted by Tricky It doesn't do any good with incredibly cynical people, but I think a lot of people out there don't realize that BP is composed of a whole lot of people like me and Darryl. We're not a bunch of faceless paper-pushers and we really do care. [...] I think, maybe a few years from now, when people can look back on this disaster without the harsh light of the TV cameras photographing the same dead bird thousands of times, maybe they will see it too. We can separate your governing structure from the people who work in the company, just like we don't blame the soldiers for starting the wars in the Mid-East. But what would really help BP in the PR department is not, say, lying about the amount of oil leaking from the pipe to limit liability (I trust your company's abilities enough to guess that they just didn't make a mistake and were thus off by a factor of 60-100). Or avoid lobbying for the release of international terrorists to secure drilling agreements. Or not running up 760 "Egregious" OSHA violations during the same period Exxon had 1. I don't know at what level of the command structure folks start making the dangerous decisions, but a few commercials won't wipe away the record. We've decided that the primary legal obligation of corporations in the United States is to make money for the shareholders. I think that's a terrible decision, but fine, a lot of what went wrong in this disaster was BP pursuing their legal obligations (and skirting around some others). BP is obviously not remotely the only company doing this, they've just chosen a line of work that can result in thousands of people losing their livelihoods when something goes wrong. But surely you can see why people are upset with BP expending dollars and efforts in a PR campaign, when dollars and effort could have forestalled this disaster. It's like a celebrity or politician going on TV and apologizing for cheating on their spouse: they're not actually sorry for the infidelity, otherwise they wouldn't have done it in the first place. They're sorry they got caught.
	Last edited by TraneWreck; 17th July 2010 at 05:04 PM.

17th July 2010, 04:59 PM	#16
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,457	Originally Posted by Elizabeth I As a southerner with a pretty pronounced accent myself, I resent it when people try to talk "lak me." Do I think that ad is cynical? Do I think it's exploitive? Hell, yes, I do. Yeah, that British guy worked so well...

18th July 2010, 01:08 AM	#17
Furcifer miscreant Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: hohm Posts: 13,379	760 OHSA violations. This company has the option to adopt safety standards above OHSA standards and be exempt from inspection, and instead they have over $100 Million in fines, and quite likely Billions to pay to clean up the spill. Whoever is responsible for making the decision not to adopt better standards, and not preventing these OHSA violations needs to be fired. I know they are going to clean this up and I know they are going to pay for it. I want to know TODAY what they are doing to prevent this from happening and it better involve not getting any more OHSA violations. My job as a Supervisor was to make sure there were no OHSA violations in my area. Before I turned on my computer I made sure there was nothing that could harm or injure my employees. If I found something I didn't leave until it was fixed. It had to be. Quote: After the BP refinery in Texas City blew up on March 23, 2005, the U.S. Chemical Safety Board, an independent federal agency, concluded that the disaster was caused by “organizational and safety deficiencies at all levels of the BP Corporation. Warning signs of a possible disaster were present for several years, but company officials did not intervene effectively to prevent it. If this company can't operate a safe work place, it doesn't need to operate. Neither do any of the other refineries that got 1500 Serious Citations. The whole industry needs some drastic changes. So the next commercial I want to see is "Here's our new Head of Safety for North America and Environmental Engineering, and they will be hiring a whole new staff to go around to our all of our plants, tomorrow, so this this won't ever happen again" Granted OHSA isn't exactly related to what happened in the Gulf, but a company that doesn't care about its employees sure as heck doesn't care about the public or the environment.

18th July 2010, 06:11 AM	#18
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,551	Originally Posted by Tricky I don't know about that ad, but I know about another one. It featured Darryl Willis. He's a geophysicist that I worked with in the South Louisiana group. That was about ten years ago, and Darryl has advanced pretty far. He's not a paper-pusher He's the head of an exploration team and is making quite a name for himself. And yes, he truly is from Louisiana (as many of BPs staff are) and that really is his accent. And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life. If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there. Oh, and why don't you bike or walk there. You wouldn't want to use any gasoline, because that would mean we have to keep drilling oil wells. And have pipelines leak and refineries explode, because you know maintenance is expensive.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin Last edited by ponderingturtle; 18th July 2010 at 06:15 AM.

18th July 2010, 06:16 AM	#19
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,983	Originally Posted by Tricky ...snip... , but has come through with the information, the people, and the cash to try to deal with this disaster. ...snip... As ever I would say follow the money - there has never been any sign since the disaster happened that something has been delayed because BP was slow or reluctant to pay for it, money has been flowing out of BP faster that the oil spill itself, I can't think of any other company that has ever reacted in such a way to a disaster of their own making. It's set a very high benchmark for other companies to be measured against in future disasters (and there will be future disasters).
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

18th July 2010, 06:19 AM	#20
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,983	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle And have pipelines leak and refineries explode, because you know maintenance is expensive. In BPs defence this was changing, a few years ago it certainly was a company that I considered would rather pay out a few million because someone died in a preventable incident rather than commit to spending several more million to ensure the incident couldn't happen.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

18th July 2010, 07:07 AM	#21
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	Originally Posted by Darat As ever I would say follow the money - there has never been any sign since the disaster happened that something has been delayed because BP was slow or reluctant to pay for it. Frankly, this would be hard to know without actually being inside the confidential meetings being held there. This is a one of a kind disaster, so from the outside, it's impossible to know if possible solutions are being shot down or delayed because of reluctance to pay. The reason so much money is flowing out of BP is that the early attempts to stop the flow did not work. I don't attribute any nobility to it. They are dead as a company until they stop the oil from flowing out. What we do know, from memos, is that of the 11 people killed in the blast, some of them may likely have survived if BP had bought the stronger shelters specifically designed to protect against such a blast, which they specifically declined to buy, instead opting for the cheapest shelters. So we have a documentation of them putting profit above human lives in a gamble and losing those lives. I am less apt to give them the benefit of the doubt in their other actions.
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON

18th July 2010, 07:48 AM	#22
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454	If it was really cynical, wouldn't the spokesperson be a mega-babe in a bikini, holding a power tool and explaining the next move?
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454

18th July 2010, 07:55 AM	#23
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Originally Posted by quarky If it was really cynical, wouldn't the spokesperson be a mega-babe in a bikini, holding a power tool and explaining the next move? she would be firing a 50 cal machine gun

18th July 2010, 11:49 AM	#24
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,403	Sorry, I haven't had a lot of time to participate more in this thread. For one thing, I have stated my position. For another, I recognize that a BP employee can hardly be unbiased. And for a third, I had to change my car oil and dump the old oil in the duck pond near my house. Being evil is a full time job.

18th July 2010, 02:45 PM	#26
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,356	Quote: All I know is, BP is sure pumping a lot of money into the US because of this. So they're to be commended for doing the least they could do, which is to clean up the incredible mess their corner-cutting caused? And what's wrong with someone with a neutral accent saying, "This and this and this are what we are doing"? There's no need to do the tug-at-the-heartstrings thing in a southern accent.
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...

18th July 2010, 02:56 PM	#27
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,403	Originally Posted by Elizabeth I And what's wrong with someone with a neutral accent saying, "This and this and this are what we are doing"? There's no need to do the tug-at-the-heartstrings thing in a southern accent. There using people who are actually from the affected states. If you're from Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama, there's a pretty good chance you have a southern accent. As I said, in the one that used my friend Darryl Willis, that's what he actually sounds like.

18th July 2010, 02:56 PM	#28
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,505	Originally Posted by Elizabeth I So they're to be commended for doing the least they could do, which is to clean up the incredible mess their corner-cutting caused? And what's wrong with someone with a neutral accent saying, "This and this and this are what we are doing"? There's no need to do the tug-at-the-heartstrings thing in a southern accent. If you go looking for something to be insulted over, you can always find it. And you definitely went looking if this accent offends you.
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

18th July 2010, 03:26 PM	#29
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,703	I heard a radio ad from BP in which they're reminding people that the employees at your local BP gas station are your neighbors, and if you boycott BP you'll be hurting them. Steve S
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,703	__________________ "Nature abhors a moron." -- H. L. Mencken

18th July 2010, 03:43 PM	#30
PogoPedant Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 764	What's a neutral accent?
PogoPedant Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 764	__________________ GENERATION 7: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

18th July 2010, 04:52 PM	#32
Stellafane Village Idiot. Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Green Mountains Posts: 6,322	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle So why should we think that this unlike the previous problems they have had from doing things in an improper manner will change anything? Well, $10 billion (and counting) and a bit of negative publicity is probably fairly good motivation.
	__________________ Another Shameless Googlebomb Plug for www.stopsylvia.com

18th July 2010, 05:39 PM	#33
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,977	Originally Posted by Tricky There using people who are actually from the affected states. If you're from Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama, there's a pretty good chance you have a southern accent. As I said, in the one that used my friend Darryl Willis, that's what he actually sounds like. This. Come on, guys; BP employees in Louisiana are likely from Louisiana. The notion that BP went out of its way, or would even have had to go out of its way, to find someone specifically with a southern accent for PR sake isn't just cynical, it's kind of stupid. The spill is in the Gulf. You expect them to use someone from Minnesota for the ads instead? If they did a commercial where Tricky was explaining that he would be there in the Gulf until the mess is cleaned up, would you be feeling all patronized?
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 Last edited by Checkmite; 18th July 2010 at 05:42 PM.

18th July 2010, 05:48 PM	#34
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,403	Originally Posted by Checkmite If they did a commercial where Tricky was explaining that he would be there in the Gulf until the mess is cleaned up, would you be feeling all patronized? Probably. I have a southern accent. I'm from Alabama. Every summer when I was a child we'd go to my grandfather's cabin in Gulf Shores and play on the beautiful white sand beaches. I am heartbroken that those beaches are now dirty. I hope we will be able to make them recover. I'm sure going to try.

18th July 2010, 05:54 PM	#36
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lost Deimos Moon Base Posts: 10,004	Meanwhile Halibuton is getting another free pass.....
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My Apollo Page. 1 on 1 Debating Forum for Skeptics and sceptics.

18th July 2010, 06:18 PM	#39
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	Originally Posted by Tricky Probably. I have a southern accent. I'm from Alabama. Every summer when I was a child we'd go to my grandfather's cabin in Gulf Shores and play on the beautiful white sand beaches. I am heartbroken that those beaches are now dirty. I hope we will be able to make them recover. I'm sure going to try. Tricky, I'd really like your take on my point above, that BP as a company is using the honest feelings of employees like you as a shield to deflect anger directed at the upper management who caused this crisis. That's what's repugnant to me. They're making arguments that boycotting the company will only hurt employees, but what option does that leave us with? The weapon that the general public has in a capitalist society to enforce it's will is to vote with our dollars. By this logic, we can never decide to stop patronizing any large business no matter how horrible the externalities they create are, because every large company has employees who genuinely care and need their jobs. As someone else stated, it's similar to the tactic of twisting anti-war sentiment up with anti-troop sentiment.
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON

18th July 2010, 06:21 PM	#40
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,505	Originally Posted by Cavemonster Tricky, I'd really like your take on my point above, that BP as a company is using the honest feelings of employees like you as a shield to deflect anger directed at the upper management who caused this crisis. That's what's repugnant to me. They're making arguments that boycotting the company will only hurt employees, but what option does that leave us with? The weapon that the general public has in a capitalist society to enforce it's will is to vote with our dollars. By this logic, we can never decide to stop patronizing any large business no matter how horrible the externalities they create are, because every large company has employees who genuinely care and need their jobs. As someone else stated, it's similar to the tactic of twisting anti-war sentiment up with anti-troop sentiment. How 'bout "The big wigs ********** up. Now it's up to us local folks to fix it"?
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