Homeland Security: Go to Church Pay $10,000

subgenius · 10th February 2004, 03:51 PM

MONTREAL (Reuters) - Crossing the U.S.-Canada border to go to church on a Sunday cost a U.S. citizen $10,000 for breaching Washington's tough new security rules.

The expensive trip to church was a surprise for Richard Albert, a resident of rural Maine who lives so close to the Canadian border the U.S. customs office is right next door to his house.

Like the other half-dozen residents of Township 15 Range 15, crossing the border is a daily ritual for Albert. The nearby Quebec village of St. Pamphile is where they shop, eat and pray.

There are many such situations in rural areas along the largely unguarded 8,900-km (5,530-mile) border between Canada and the United States -- which in some cases actually runs down the middle of streets or through buildings.

As a result, Albert says did not expect any problems three weeks ago when he returned home to the United States after attending mass in Canada, as usual.

The local U.S. customs station is closed on Sundays, so he just drove around the locked gate, as he had done every weekend since the gate appeared last May, following a tightening of border security.

Two days later, Albert was summoned to the customs office, where an officer told him he had been caught on camera crossing the border illegally.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...nada_border_dc

So if you're following along, we have a guy drive around a gate at an unmanned customs station.

Thats our security. Good thing Osama doesn't read the news.

And instead of giving him a warning and keeping it quiet they fine the guy. Not $100, not $1000, but $10,000.
Remind me what country I live in.

Ælfgifu · 10th February 2004, 03:58 PM

Quote:

So if you're following along, we have a guy drive around a gate at an unmanned customs station.

Thats our security. Good thing Osama doesn't read the news.

And instead of giving him a warning and keeping it quiet they fine the guy. Not $100, not $1000, but $10,000.

<sarcasm>Golly, I hope if terrorists get into the country by driving around a gate at an unmanned customs station, that we do the right thing and slap a huge fine on them.</sarcasm>

Have a nice day,
Kelly

Nikk · 10th February 2004, 05:39 PM

Surely a citizen has a right to enter the country. How can they be convicted and fined for that?

WildCat · 10th February 2004, 07:31 PM

That fine is as idiotic as the "no-fly zones". All symbolism, no substance.

But how does a building get built straddling an international border, I wonder? Who issues the building permit, which countries regs apply, etc. - I'm dying to know!

Zep · 10th February 2004, 07:39 PM

He should pay the fine with a cheque drawn on a Canadian bank, written in French, posted from Canada to Washington. The paperwork would tie the thing up for years, and they can't claim he didn't pay.

Or it could just be dropped.

Nah. Guess not. Camp X-Ray, here he went!

Hexxenhammer · 10th February 2004, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nikk
Surely a citizen has a right to enter the country. How can they be convicted and fined for that?

What he was supposed to do was drive to a larger checkpoint that was probably miles and miles away since his was closed. Stupid and asinine, but what he should have done. Those small border towns shouldn't even have checkpoints.

subgenius · 10th February 2004, 08:00 PM

You would think that Customs would have taken the guy aside and said, "We'll let you off with a warning if you don't tell everyone that our borders are like a sieve."

And how about the fallout to the "Religious Right" for fining a guy $10,000 for going to church?

Zep · 10th February 2004, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by subgenius
And how about the fallout to the "Religious Right" for fining a guy $10,000 for going to church?

Then he should ASK to be fined retrospectively for all the times he crossed the border "illegally" to go to church between now and the effective date of the Homeland Security Bill. Then publish his plight on breakfast TV nationwide.

subgenius · 10th February 2004, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zep
Then he should ASK to be fined retrospectively for all the times he crossed the border "illegally" to go to church between now and the effective date of the Homeland Security Bill. Then publish his plight on breakfast TV nationwide.

Not a bad tactic, although I've had bad experience with inviting your adversary to "Bring it on."
Would love to hear, and smell, the fundies spinning this one.

ceo_esq · 11th February 2004, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by subgenius
And how about the fallout to the "Religious Right" for fining a guy $10,000 for going to church?

Actually, he was fined for leaving church. If only he had gone to church and stayed there, he'd have been okay. I'd recommend the same to the Religious Right.

Abdul Alhazred · 11th February 2004, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WildCat
That fine is as idiotic as the "no-fly zones". All symbolism, no substance.

The no-fly zones in Iraq were more than symbolism. They were enforced vigorously and very likely this policy prevented the total extermination of the Kurds.

Zep · 11th February 2004, 03:28 AM

Quick question: Can you get in trouble like this for LEAVING the USA as well as ENTERING? I mean, does the penalty apply for CROSSING the border in any direction, or only for ENTRY?

Bottle or the Gun · 11th February 2004, 04:30 AM

Can we put an unmanned gate in California by Mexico? We spend tons dollars and use thousands of agents closing that border and it doesn't stop anyone. If we only thought of a camera and unmanned gate before, think of the resources we could have missapplied elsewhere!

Agammamon · 11th February 2004, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zep
Quick question: Can you get in trouble like this for LEAVING the USA as well as ENTERING? I mean, does the penalty apply for CROSSING the border in any direction, or only for ENTRY?

Well that's a tricky one. Keep in mind he was fined not for entering the US per se but because he entered improperly.

It's all about the customs' angle and there are things you're not allowed to export from the US (irregardless of their legality at your destination), so while you can't be prevented from leaving the US as such(though being allowed to enter the other country is a different matter), you can be delayed/stopped leaving by customs inspections.

And of course you can be prevented from leaving if your destination country is one of several that the US government has deemed "off-limits" due to embargoe, etc (like Cuba).

zakur · 11th February 2004, 03:08 PM

Speaking of crazy fines: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNew...343066-ap.html

Quote:

Singapore's highest court has ruled a local man must pay a fine worth the equivalent of $4,720 Cdn for leaving a water-filled plastic pail lid outside, local news media reported Wednesday.

WildCat · 11th February 2004, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred

The no-fly zones in Iraq were more than symbolism. They were enforced vigorously and very likely this policy prevented the total extermination of the Kurds.

Oops, I wasn't very clear there. I was referring to the no-fly zones over US cities. Mayor Daley here freaks out whenever a temporary ban is lifted. As if a terrorist intent on a suicide nose dive into the Sears Tower would be dissuaded by a no-fly zone.

WildCat · 11th February 2004, 07:25 PM

You know, the more I think of it fining Christians $10,000 every time they go to church could pay off the national debt in a few weeks time. Just wait until the Planet Xians land and annoint me emperor!

subgenius · 11th February 2004, 07:25 PM

Ok? I did a search and couldn't find where "standing in the shadows of motown" was the topic, so I'm posting it here:
I'm 3/4 the way through the DVD and blown away.
One of the, if not the, greatest documentaries, much less music documentaries.
Anyone who's into music, Detroit, movies, or documentaries, must see this.
The soundtrack is awesome, as is the history. Michelle N'Degeocello stopped my heart, Gerald Levert, Joe Hunter's comment about Rachmaninoff's left hand, "Lottie the Body" and her influence on Motown, how Stevie stole (not a bad thing) from all of them, s**t, this is the s**t. Still trying to catch James cameo, .......final review later.

Also,

Just finished watching "West Wing" . If you want to imagine a world where we have a president with a brain, watch this show.
"Blind Willie Johnson" figured prominently. He was blinded, as a child, by his own mother when she discovered her husband fooling around. Did you think you had the blues?
His music was sent by NASA into space.
Stay tuned.

BTox · 11th February 2004, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by subgenius

Just finished watching "West Wing" . If you want to imagine a world where we have a president with a brain, watch this show.

Bwaaa! Martin Sheen pretending to be a president with a brain - love it!

subgenius · 12th February 2004, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bottle or the Gun
Can we put an unmanned gate in California by Mexico? We spend tons dollars and use thousands of agents closing that border and it doesn't stop anyone. If we only thought of a camera and unmanned gate before, think of the resources we could have missapplied elsewhere!

30 years ago the National Lampoon had a great picture of a bunch of border guards literally picking their asses as a busload of illegals went by behind their backs. Sure wish I kept that one.
Bush's solution: let em in, make em slaves.

10th February 2004, 03:51 PM	#1
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	Homeland Security: Go to Church Pay $10,000 MONTREAL (Reuters) - Crossing the U.S.-Canada border to go to church on a Sunday cost a U.S. citizen $10,000 for breaching Washington's tough new security rules. The expensive trip to church was a surprise for Richard Albert, a resident of rural Maine who lives so close to the Canadian border the U.S. customs office is right next door to his house. Like the other half-dozen residents of Township 15 Range 15, crossing the border is a daily ritual for Albert. The nearby Quebec village of St. Pamphile is where they shop, eat and pray. There are many such situations in rural areas along the largely unguarded 8,900-km (5,530-mile) border between Canada and the United States -- which in some cases actually runs down the middle of streets or through buildings. As a result, Albert says did not expect any problems three weeks ago when he returned home to the United States after attending mass in Canada, as usual. The local U.S. customs station is closed on Sundays, so he just drove around the locked gate, as he had done every weekend since the gate appeared last May, following a tightening of border security. Two days later, Albert was summoned to the customs office, where an officer told him he had been caught on camera crossing the border illegally. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...nada_border_dc So if you're following along, we have a guy drive around a gate at an unmanned customs station. Thats our security. Good thing Osama doesn't read the news. And instead of giving him a warning and keeping it quiet they fine the guy. Not $100, not $1000, but $10,000. Remind me what country I live in.
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	__________________ "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any controlling private power."---Franklin D. Roosevelt Proud to be Liberal

10th February 2004, 03:58 PM	#2
Ælfgifu Student Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 28	Quote: So if you're following along, we have a guy drive around a gate at an unmanned customs station. Thats our security. Good thing Osama doesn't read the news. And instead of giving him a warning and keeping it quiet they fine the guy. Not $100, not $1000, but $10,000. <sarcasm>Golly, I hope if terrorists get into the country by driving around a gate at an unmanned customs station, that we do the right thing and slap a huge fine on them.</sarcasm> Have a nice day, Kelly
Ælfgifu Student Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 28

10th February 2004, 05:39 PM	#3
Nikk Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,249	Surely a citizen has a right to enter the country. How can they be convicted and fined for that?
Nikk Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,249

10th February 2004, 07:39 PM	#5
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	He should pay the fine with a cheque drawn on a Canadian bank, written in French, posted from Canada to Washington. The paperwork would tie the thing up for years, and they can't claim he didn't pay. Or it could just be dropped. Nah. Guess not. Camp X-Ray, here he went!
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

10th February 2004, 07:48 PM	#6
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	Quote: Originally posted by Nikk Surely a citizen has a right to enter the country. How can they be convicted and fined for that? What he was supposed to do was drive to a larger checkpoint that was probably miles and miles away since his was closed. Stupid and asinine, but what he should have done. Those small border towns shouldn't even have checkpoints.
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

10th February 2004, 07:31 PM	#4
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,006	That fine is as idiotic as the "no-fly zones". All symbolism, no substance. But how does a building get built straddling an international border, I wonder? Who issues the building permit, which countries regs apply, etc. - I'm dying to know!

10th February 2004, 08:00 PM	#7
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	You would think that Customs would have taken the guy aside and said, "We'll let you off with a warning if you don't tell everyone that our borders are like a sieve." And how about the fallout to the "Religious Right" for fining a guy $10,000 for going to church?
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	__________________ "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any controlling private power."---Franklin D. Roosevelt Proud to be Liberal

10th February 2004, 08:19 PM	#8
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Quote: Originally posted by subgenius And how about the fallout to the "Religious Right" for fining a guy $10,000 for going to church? Then he should ASK to be fined retrospectively for all the times he crossed the border "illegally" to go to church between now and the effective date of the Homeland Security Bill. Then publish his plight on breakfast TV nationwide.
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

10th February 2004, 08:30 PM	#9
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	Quote: Originally posted by Zep Then he should ASK to be fined retrospectively for all the times he crossed the border "illegally" to go to church between now and the effective date of the Homeland Security Bill. Then publish his plight on breakfast TV nationwide. Not a bad tactic, although I've had bad experience with inviting your adversary to "Bring it on." Would love to hear, and smell, the fundies spinning this one.
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	__________________ "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any controlling private power."---Franklin D. Roosevelt Proud to be Liberal

11th February 2004, 02:30 AM	#10
ceo_esq Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,940	Quote: Originally posted by subgenius And how about the fallout to the "Religious Right" for fining a guy $10,000 for going to church? Actually, he was fined for leaving church. If only he had gone to church and stayed there, he'd have been okay. I'd recommend the same to the Religious Right.
ceo_esq Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,940

11th February 2004, 02:43 AM	#11
Abdul Alhazred Yes, that one. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,476	Quote: Originally posted by WildCat That fine is as idiotic as the "no-fly zones". All symbolism, no substance. The no-fly zones in Iraq were more than symbolism. They were enforced vigorously and very likely this policy prevented the total extermination of the Kurds.
	__________________ The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation.

11th February 2004, 03:28 AM	#12
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Quick question: Can you get in trouble like this for LEAVING the USA as well as ENTERING? I mean, does the penalty apply for CROSSING the border in any direction, or only for ENTRY?
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

11th February 2004, 04:30 AM	#13
Bottle or the Gun Muse Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 890	Can we put an unmanned gate in California by Mexico? We spend tons dollars and use thousands of agents closing that border and it doesn't stop anyone. If we only thought of a camera and unmanned gate before, think of the resources we could have missapplied elsewhere!
Bottle or the Gun Muse Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 890	__________________ It's "Lather, rinse, repeat", not "Lather, rinse, then there is divine intervention" - Don Life is inevitable because matter is self-organizing. A deity isn't necessary for a chemical reaction. - Don That's the biz, sweetheart. - Remo Williams

11th February 2004, 08:05 AM	#14
Agammamon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,385	Quote: Originally posted by Zep Quick question: Can you get in trouble like this for LEAVING the USA as well as ENTERING? I mean, does the penalty apply for CROSSING the border in any direction, or only for ENTRY? Well that's a tricky one. Keep in mind he was fined not for entering the US per se but because he entered improperly. It's all about the customs' angle and there are things you're not allowed to export from the US (irregardless of their legality at your destination), so while you can't be prevented from leaving the US as such(though being allowed to enter the other country is a different matter), you can be delayed/stopped leaving by customs inspections. And of course you can be prevented from leaving if your destination country is one of several that the US government has deemed "off-limits" due to embargoe, etc (like Cuba).
	__________________ It will be a great day when the US Air Force has all the bombs it needs and the NEA has to hold a bake sale in order to pay its lobbyists.

11th February 2004, 03:08 PM	#15
zakur Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 3,265	Speaking of crazy fines: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNew...343066-ap.html Quote: Singapore's highest court has ruled a local man must pay a fine worth the equivalent of $4,720 Cdn for leaving a water-filled plastic pail lid outside, local news media reported Wednesday.
	__________________ "I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." -Thomas Carlyle "That's the problem these days: nobody thinks of the tumors." -steinhenge

11th February 2004, 06:54 PM	#16
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,006	Quote: Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred The no-fly zones in Iraq were more than symbolism. They were enforced vigorously and very likely this policy prevented the total extermination of the Kurds. Oops, I wasn't very clear there. I was referring to the no-fly zones over US cities. Mayor Daley here freaks out whenever a temporary ban is lifted. As if a terrorist intent on a suicide nose dive into the Sears Tower would be dissuaded by a no-fly zone.

11th February 2004, 07:25 PM	#17
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,006	You know, the more I think of it fining Christians $10,000 every time they go to church could pay off the national debt in a few weeks time. Just wait until the Planet Xians land and annoint me emperor!

11th February 2004, 07:38 PM	#19
BTox Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,588	Quote: Originally posted by subgenius Just finished watching "West Wing" . If you want to imagine a world where we have a president with a brain, watch this show. Bwaaa! Martin Sheen pretending to be a president with a brain - love it!
BTox Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,588	__________________ "Your ignorance makes me ill... "

12th February 2004, 07:26 PM	#20
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	Quote: Originally posted by Bottle or the Gun Can we put an unmanned gate in California by Mexico? We spend tons dollars and use thousands of agents closing that border and it doesn't stop anyone. If we only thought of a camera and unmanned gate before, think of the resources we could have missapplied elsewhere! 30 years ago the National Lampoon had a great picture of a bunch of border guards literally picking their asses as a busload of illegals went by behind their backs. Sure wish I kept that one. Bush's solution: let em in, make em slaves.
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	__________________ "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any controlling private power."---Franklin D. Roosevelt Proud to be Liberal