Are conspiracy theories growing in popularity?

[bluskool]

I don't read the CT forums much, so I hope this hasn't been discussed, but lately I have been seeing more and more friends on FB posting stuff from Alex Jones' websites. This is, of course, purely anecdotal, but does anyone else think that CTs are becoming more mainstream or know of any research on the popularity of CTs?

A follow up question is, if CTs are becoming more popular, should they be getting more skeptical attention?

[LizardLover]

Sadly, yes. I blame Youtube and hold them responsible for it all. Every truther, freeman, NWO believer, UFO nut will inevitably direct you to a Youtube video as their source of proof within 30 seconds of any debate on their CT topic of choice. Roughly 65% of the CT nuts will post a direct link to the Youtube video that validates their claims, and their life, with the remaining 35% will tell you to go search it yourself, as they have and will not "do your homework for you."

Any posting of rebuttal videos that disprove their claim are automatically lumped into shill videos, agent video, NWO propaganda, MSM lies, Zionist brainwashing, etc, etc.

Your comments on their video of choice will either be deleted, or you will be responded to within 2 mins informing you that you are an agent, a shill, or in my case, a Lizard Lover.

Their next great sources of "proof" are blogs, Russian Today media, Iranian websites and anything else that supports their claims. Any posting of sites that disprove their claim are lumped into the above mentioned categories.

As for them getting more skeptical attention, there is loads of it. There are sites dedicated to ripping apart everything Alex Jones has said, lists of failed predictions, sites that destroy every point Richard Gage has ever made, but the point is, they don't want to read it or believe it. Thats the real sad part too, is that they will not even bother to read a site that goes against them, and at least try and have an open mind, they get about 3 words in and don't read anymore and all of a sudden act like a spider monkey on meth with ADHD, and that could be a insult to monkey with substance abuse problems.

Eventually they will get suckered into more and more CT theories. If you believe the government can do 9/11, why not believe they did it for the great new Zionist NWO, and if you believe that, why can't those Zionist NWO people come from Lizards and if you believe that, why can't those lizards be here on the planet now in disguise, and if you believe that, well, here's you sign.


_______________________
I've played guitar for 15 years and no one calls me a guitar player, yet challenge 1 Alex Jones video and I'm labelled a Lizard Lover.

[timhau]

I don't think it's just YouTube, its teh internetz. Back when I was an undergrad, I worked at a local bookstore on Saturdays. Every Saturday one of the first people to come into the store was a guy who had a huge wad of ditto-copied tracts, single-spaced and with no margins to speak of. He always left a small pile, never saying a word or buying anything.

The tracts were your standard paranoid conspiracy ramblings. Back in the days before the net, that was how they got the word out -- you wrote on pieces of paper that you distributed by hand (he didn't trust the mail -- they were a CIA/KGB front). That put a serious limitation on the potential audience of your run-of-the-mill nutcase. The chances of them running into another one were small, the chances of them running into another one who they might trust was probably even smaller.

Not so with the internet. Nowadays, the crank with a typewriter and a ditto machine has been replaced with the kook who has a webpage. You can google people who have the same paranoid delusions as you do, and you can communicate with them. It's much, much easier for teh stupid to reach critical mass.

[dudalb]

That raises the question as to if the number of those buying into the CTers is not greater then before, it is just that now they have a much higher profile thanks to the Internet and they can hook up easier.

[bluskool]

Originally Posted by dudalb

That raises the question as to if the number of those buying into the CTers is not greater then before, it is just that now they have a much higher profile thanks to the Internet and they can hook up easier.

Yes, that's what I am driving at. I wouldn't say that there are more of the traditional CTists (the easy to dismiss paranoid, delusional, hyper pattern seeking types), but it does seem like elements of CTs are becoming more popular and mainstream.

Lizardlover - Could you post some links to the sites you mention that go after Jones. The only sites that I could find going after Jones were the site that I linked to above and a bunch of other conspiracy sites that think that Jones is a shill for whoever they think is behind their favorite conspiracy (it's particularly amusing when CTs accuse other CTs of being a part of the conspiracy).

[Mac53]

The problem is, people trust each other unless told otherwise. If the "truthful" was told something about Alex Jones or David Icke, he would be less likely to believe in the beliefs of those presenters.

I'm not saying their wrong, or right, I have not done complete research, it's a loop trying to prove something that can be unproven because it has never been proved to exist. (UFOs, Reptilians, NWO, etc)

If you want to promote critically thinking, then think critically. You can only control yourself, CTs will fade out soon enough either with evidence or the lack or evidence.

[LizardLover]

Originally Posted by bluskool

Yes, that's what I am driving at. I wouldn't say that there are more of the traditional CTists (the easy to dismiss paranoid, delusional, hyper pattern seeking types), but it does seem like elements of CTs are becoming more popular and mainstream.

Lizardlover - Could you post some links to the sites you mention that go after Jones. The only sites that I could find going after Jones were the site that I linked to above and a bunch of other conspiracy sites that think that Jones is a shill for whoever they think is behind their favorite conspiracy (it's particularly amusing when CTs accuse other CTs of being a part of the conspiracy).

I need 15 posts to be able to post links but I will PM it to you. The one I have on hand shows some of his failed predictions, quotes and dissection of some of his movies.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Mac53

The problem is, people trust each other unless told otherwise. If the "truthful" was told something about Alex Jones or David Icke, he would be less likely to believe in the beliefs of those presenters.

.

Sadly, Jones and Icke and other CT "leaders" have been exposed as phonies ,liars, and at times out and out Con Men time and time again, but the True Believers ignore it. Never forget the will to believe. And CTers can always dismiss the evidence about Jones and company with the "The powers that be are out to discredit them and are faking the evidence" dodge. If your conspiracy is in trouble, just create a bigger conspiracy.

[TomiH]

I watched a video about HAARP.
When my country got hit by the earthquake (Chile).
Many people started talking about that thing...
I think my brain is going to blow up hearing so much ppl. talking about that
I heard about something called the anunakis.

I want to know if someone has a book or a study that tells why people believe in such things.

[Gawdzilla]

Originally Posted by TomiH

I watched a video about HAARP.
When my country got hit by the earthquake (Chile).
Many people started talking about that thing...
I think my brain is going to blow up hearing so much ppl. talking about that
I heard about something called the anunakis.

I want to know if someone has a book or a study that tells why people believe in such things.

Why People Believe Weird Things would be a good start. You can get it from Amazon.com I believe.

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by TomiH

I want to know if someone has a book or a study that tells why people believe in such things.

Well, there's this:

http://www.amazon.ca/People-Believe-.../dp/0716733870


But I'm of the opinion it fails at addressing that central question.

[Quad4_72]

Im guessing that there has always been a large number of conspiracy fantasists out there. The internet, specifically youtube videos, is just a new way of mass producing their fantasies.

[Sceptic-PK]

Originally Posted by timhau

I don't think it's just YouTube, its teh internetz. Back when I was an undergrad, I worked at a local bookstore on Saturdays. Every Saturday one of the first people to come into the store was a guy who had a huge wad of ditto-copied tracts, single-spaced and with no margins to speak of. He always left a small pile, never saying a word or buying anything.

The tracts were your standard paranoid conspiracy ramblings. Back in the days before the net, that was how they got the word out -- you wrote on pieces of paper that you distributed by hand (he didn't trust the mail -- they were a CIA/KGB front). That put a serious limitation on the potential audience of your run-of-the-mill nutcase. The chances of them running into another one were small, the chances of them running into another one who they might trust was probably even smaller.

Not so with the internet. Nowadays, the crank with a typewriter and a ditto machine has been replaced with the kook who has a webpage. You can google people who have the same paranoid delusions as you do, and you can communicate with them. It's much, much easier for teh stupid to reach critical mass.

Yeah, that's my view too. The internet made it much easier for people to access and share poor information. Luckily it made it easier to access good information as well, but as LD said above, CTs don't bother with that.

[fullflavormenthol]

Originally Posted by LizardLover

Your comments on their video of choice will either be deleted, or you will be responded to within 2 mins informing you that you are an agent, a shill, or in my case, a Lizard Lover.

Someone posted a video to youtube pointing out anomalies in videos (really digital artifacts) as proof of a reptilian conspiracy and by pointing out that it is simply compression artifacts I was labeled a shill and it was implied that I may actually be one of them....

[Bell]

Originally Posted by fullflavormenthol

Someone posted a video to youtube pointing out anomalies in videos (really digital artifacts) as proof of a reptilian conspiracy and by pointing out that it is simply compression artifacts I was labeled a shill and it was implied that I may actually be one of them....

But if you are one of them you would deny it of course.

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by Quad4_72

Im guessing that there has always been a large number of conspiracy fantasists out there.

But I also think that the recent economic troubles have created more conspiracy fantasists.

No one needs to explain (to themselves or to others) why they do have a job; everyone needs to explain why they don't. No one needs to explain why their house is not being foreclosed upon; everyone needs to explain why it is.

And people tend to focus on external causes when they explain negative stuff -- this is psych 101 stuff, usually taught under the heading of "locus of control." If I lost my job, my self-respect won't let me admit that it's because I was the biggest screwup and least pleasant worker in the office. It "must" be because someone else had it in for me.

Look at the amount of anti-Fed conspiracy 'tards out there, for example. Very few people really worried about the existence of the Fed back in 2006, when the economy was growing and inflation was low. The idea of losing purchasing power in your saved money was ridiculous because no one had any saved money -- if you had extra money, you invested it. Investment is what makes this country great.

.... and then investments crashed, and it must be the sneaky Joo bankers at the Fed who did it....

[bluskool]

Here is the link that Lizardlover sent me in case anyone is interested. http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/alex-jones/

[Squidgy]

Yes CT's are growing in popularity. I think it is bacause everyone feels that 'something is wrong'. Maybe the recession is to blame? Maybe the screwed up wars we are involved in is to blame? OR? Maybe it is to do with the fact that capatalism is ass raping every hard working individual who isn't high up in a major banking cartel, even the poloticians are getting raped and they know it...

[LizardLover]

I do agree, the internet in general has made it easier for the truthoil salesman to peddle his wares to many more people, more cheaply and easily that ever before. It's not like there haven't been CT kooks before the internet, but you had to dub VHS cassette tapes before and then print out flyers on mimograph machines before that. You also had to "know" someone who could invite you to a meeting, or a screening of a movie, it was all underground style. Now you can get a free blog, throw up some youtube links, a donate button, copy and paste a few prison planet articles and you're good to go.

Its like pedophiles. Its not like they never existed before the internet. They have always been out there. 40 years ago though, you needed a darkroom and the knowhow to develop your pedo-porn and to duplicate it. It was very hush hush and underground. To trade this pictures, you had to meet in person with someone else who had the knowhow to develop their own photos. Now with the net, everyone acts like where did pedophiles comes from, they are everywhere. No, its just easier, a digital camera and a wifi signal sitting in your car outside of someone's house, a coffee shop or proxy connections allow them to trade their photos faster than ever before. or even go buy child porn without having to leave the house.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Squidgy

Yes CT's are growing in popularity. I think it is bacause everyone feels that 'something is wrong'. Maybe the recession is to blame? Maybe the screwed up wars we are involved in is to blame? OR? Maybe it is to do with the fact that capatalism is ass raping every hard working individual who isn't high up in a major banking cartel, even the poloticians are getting raped and they know it...

You have to love the misspelled Marxist rhetoric.

[Squidgy]

Originally Posted by dudalb

You have to love the misspelled Marxist rhetoric.

OOH, sorry, I misspelled 'because'! Have you ever heard of a typo?

Marxist? Maybe. Unhappy with the distribution of wealth and the value of labour? Definitely, sorry if that disturbs you, I guess all those years of communism have led you to believe that capitalism is the only way.

[Squidgy]

ZOMG, I didn't spell capitalism right either the first time, that must completely devalue a single word I said!

[dudalb]

Piece of advice, Squidgy, coming off as illiterate is not a good thing in a discussion.

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by Squidgy

ZOMG, I didn't spell capitalism right either the first time, that must completely devalue a single word I said!

Relax. It's not your spelling that devalues every single word you "said" (wrote).

[rjh01]

Originally Posted by LizardLover

I do agree, the internet in general has made it easier for the truthoil salesman to peddle his wares to many more people, more cheaply and easily that ever before. It's not like there haven't been CT kooks before the internet, but you had to dub VHS cassette tapes before and then print out flyers on mimograph machines before that. You also had to "know" someone who could invite you to a meeting, or a screening of a movie, it was all underground style. Now you can get a free blog, throw up some youtube links, a donate button, copy and paste a few prison planet articles and you're good to go.
<snip>

The internet has also made it easier to find to find out the facts. Someone tells you a certain fact then it is easy to do a search and find plenty of sites that will discuss such issues. Hopefully the ones that have the facts will be the more convincing ones.

[LizardLover]

Originally Posted by rjh01

The internet has also made it easier to find to find out the facts. Someone tells you a certain fact then it is easy to do a search and find plenty of sites that will discuss such issues. Hopefully the ones that have the facts will be the more convincing ones.

Truthers don't use facts. Well real facts anyways. Thats an optimistic statement to say you hope the ones with facts will be more convincing. Hope is the key word there, and from my experience, they don't go with the ones with facts, they go with ones that suit their beliefs, even if it flies in the face of logic, reason, physics, or anything else rational. These are people who watch a youtube video and take it for face value as the truth of the entire universe. Some days I think the internet should require a license.




_______________________
I've played guitar for 15 years and no one calls me a guitar player, yet challenge 1 Alex Jones video and I'm labelled a Lizard Lover.

[Bell]

Originally Posted by LizardLover

Truthers don't use facts. Well real facts anyways. Thats an optimistic statement to say you hope the ones with facts will be more convincing. Hope is the key word there, and from my experience, they don't go with the ones with facts, they go with ones that suit their beliefs, even if it flies in the face of logic, reason, physics, or anything else rational. These are people who watch a youtube video and take it for face value as the truth of the entire universe. Some days I think the internet should require a license.

Truthers use a lot of facts. None of them of any relevance though...

[timhau]

Originally Posted by Squidgy

Maybe it is to do with the fact that capatalism is ass raping every hard working individual who isn't high up in a major banking cartel

Yes, we'd be so much better off with communism, feodalism, or any other sort of economy ever tried. Well, apart from things like food shortages, but hey, most of us could stand to shed a few pounds.

[rjh01]

Originally Posted by LizardLover

Truthers don't use facts. Well real facts anyways. Thats an optimistic statement to say you hope the ones with facts will be more convincing. Hope is the key word there, and from my experience, they don't go with the ones with facts, they go with ones that suit their beliefs, even if it flies in the face of logic, reason, physics, or anything else rational. These are people who watch a youtube video and take it for face value as the truth of the entire universe. Some days I think the internet should require a license.
<snip>

You are talking here about people who are trying to spread CT. Nothing much can be done for these people. When these people talk to others about CT these people can go on the Internet and find out the facts. So instead of these people having to think that CT is a possibility, they can find out CT is junk. Hence CT cannot spread beyond a small group of people.

[Orphia Nay]

Originally Posted by bluskool

Here is the link that Lizardlover sent me in case anyone is interested. http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/alex-jones/

Thanks for that, bluskool (and Lizardlover).

[Aufbruch]

In direct response to the OT....I'd argue that it's a "yes and no".

Infowars dot com and the like have indeed seeded many 'less than skeptical' minds with 'less than rational ideas' that they otherwise would never have encountered without teh intarweb, but the effect I've personally (and, I freely admit to only being able to back up anecdotally and perhaps logically) observed is that those who give the CTs a grain or more of salt are immediately thereafter divided...

E.g. : There are those that _suspect_ the government had something to do with 9/11, perhaps by "letting" the jihadists man those planes...then there are those that think the government actively aided and funded 9/11....then you have the folks that believe there were no planes. Then you have the death ray/hologram folks.

I'm sure there's at least three higher levels of lulz there, but the picture was painted and hopefully gotted. : ) Youtube has grown the conspiracy beleevr numbers, yes, but it's also divided them...and, amusingly seems to have done so in such a way that seems to categorize them via quantified gullibility, almost. : / See previous paragraph.

Anyone that hasn't seen the SA Flash thingy "Tight Dollars" should....semi NSFW:



somethingawful
com/d/flash-tub/conspiracy-theory-911.php

As you can clearly see, there are NO PLANES IN THIS VIDEO!

[Orphia Nay]

Here's your link, Aufbruch:

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/flas...theory-911.php

That was pretty funny! I can't believe I hadn't seen that already.

[Brainster]

There are a variety of reasons why conspiracy theories should be and probably are more prevalent these days. Conservatives tend to be more paranoid about the government than liberals, so it makes sense that there would be more conspiracy theories about the government during a Democratic administration. And corporations never go out of power, so the left-liberals always have their conspiracy theories about what the evil banksters are doing to us. And when you add the actual misdeeds of the bankers that led to the current crisis, it's not hard to see why the CTs would be very popular right now.

[bluskool]

Originally Posted by rjh01

You are talking here about people who are trying to spread CT. Nothing much can be done for these people. When these people talk to others about CT these people can go on the Internet and find out the facts. So instead of these people having to think that CT is a possibility, they can find out CT is junk. Hence CT cannot spread beyond a small group of people.

The unfortunate problem is that people aren't always going to look at both sides. Often, they are going to look at the side that presents information in the most entertaining way. And let's face it, most people are going to find videos by Alex Jones more entertaining than lengthy articles by skeptics. We need more Jon Ronsons I guess.

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by bluskool

The unfortunate problem is that people aren't always going to look at both sides. Often, they are going to look at the side that presents information in the most entertaining way.

There's also strong (psychological) reasons for people to listen to people who tell them what they want to hear.

If you lost your job, would you rather be told it's because you're a lazy, unskilled, slob,.... or that it's because Da Man is conspiring to keep you down?

[dudalb]

Then there is the fact the Consiracy Theories fit in so well with the "All Authority Sucks" attitude that is popular among the 16 to 23 year old age group. This is nothing new, of course, "rebellious youth" seems to be an eternal of the human condition,but the Internet has certainly give the Cters a much bigger playground.
A vast majority of the CTers in this age group grow out of it, and I have a feeling the really hard core beleivers are probably older.

[Squidgy]

LOL, I just re-read my previous posts... My spelling was atrocious! Anyways, I get a little emotional sometimes.

[defaultdotxbe]

double post...somehow im not sure how as i was still writing it....see below

[little grey rabbit]

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

i think this is pretty much it, the internet hasnt created more CTers, its just given them a bigger bullhorn

I remember reading Balkan Trilogy by Olivia Manning that was a novel but autobiographically based of her experiences in Romania during WW2. She had dialogue with an Englishman called Guy who kept going on about how the War had really been stirred up banks who were funding both sides.

So, yes, they have been around awhile. I am not sure if they have a bigger bullhorn than beofore. I wasnt even aware that anyone doubted 911 at all, until the Illuminati attacked me totally unprovoked.

Then I started searching around for an explanation of why I was being treated this way.

[defaultdotxbe]

Originally Posted by dudalb

That raises the question as to if the number of those buying into the CTers is not greater then before, it is just that now they have a much higher profile thanks to the Internet and they can hook up easier.

i think this is pretty much it, the internet hasnt created more CTers, its just given them a bigger bullhorn



and its not just the internet, its digital media in general, even 20 years ago it was pretty expensive to print up a bunch of flyers, now anyone can do it at home, you dont even need to make the flyer, you can download one

same with movies, anyone with a windows PC can make a movie with windows movie maker, then burn it to a DVD and hand it out with their flyers, and same as above, the truly lazy can just download someone elses movie

not long ago all this would have cost hundreds, even thousands of dollars, now it costs pennies, so that 16-23 crowd with their part time minimum wage jobs can afford to "get active" (as much as the term applies to the average CTer)



on the plus side, ive been seeing pretty much the same age cutoff where most kids grow out of it, so the increased saturation doesnt seem to equal increased penetration (or in other words, they can throw more **** against the wall, but it still doesnt stick)