Crop circle debunking help needed

[23_Tauri]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

I happen to be the age of mid 40's. None of my friends, ever, invited me out on crop circle night. If they had, I would've declined, no duh, are ya sure. yep. Nope , not up for it.

And everyone else in the world is just like you, right?

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by 23_Tauri

And everyone else in the world is just like you, right?

They know you cant make a crop circle like we've seen lately. You couldn't do it with gps or a nasa budget. Everybody knows your fibbing. Care to try?

[23_Tauri]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

They know you cant make a crop circle like we've seen lately. You couldn't do it with gps or a nasa budget. Everybody knows your fibbing. Care to try?

Who's "they"?

Would you like to give an example of a recent crop circle that you believe could not be made by humans?

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by 23_Tauri

Who's "they"?

Everyone else

Originally Posted by 23_Tauri

Would you like to give an example of a recent crop circle that you believe could not be made by humans?

Why not you choose any one you want?

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

I happen to be the age of mid 40's. None of my friends, ever, invited me out on crop circle night. If they had, I would've declined, no duh, are ya sure. yep. Nope , not up for it.

Do they suddenly stop talking when you enter the room?

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Why not you choose any one you want?

Because you're the one who thinks they can't be made by humans?

[quarky]

Crop circles are often stunningly beautiful. If aliens made them, I find it hard to accept that its the same gang of aliens that do the famous abductions and anal probings.

Yet, Italians created fabulous art and the Mafia, so who knows?

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Everyone else




Why not you choose any one you want?

You choose, you're the one saying that some are too complicated for humans to make. If we choose one, we might pick one you think could be made.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

I happen to be the age of mid 40's. None of my friends, ever, invited me out on crop circle night. If they had, I would've declined, no duh, are ya sure. yep. Nope , not up for it.

How many crop circle makers do you think are needed to account for the number of circles? Have you thought about how likely you are to meet one?

[SusanB-M1]

Re: people not talking about making crop circles. As soon as the wholesystem became common knowledge, the part of the income of photographers who, surprise, surprise, know just where to get photos the next day, the microlight pilots who take them - and tourists - up to see them from above, the book and calendar publishers, etc evaporates in a puff of smoke.

[Safe-Keeper]

Quote:

They know you cant make a crop circle like we've seen lately. You couldn't do it with gps or a nasa budget.

"I can't think of a solution, and if I can't think of one, then surely none must exist, because I am the smartest person in the wooorld!"

Get a grip.

Oh, and if humans can't make crop circles, what on earth suggests to you aliens can? What advantages do they have that we do not that allows them to trample grass into elaborate patterns? Living on another planet?

[Stray Cat]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Why not you choose any one you want?

What about this one?
The biggest crop circle ever made!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Let the denial begin.

[23_Tauri]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Everyone else

Everyone else apart from whom?

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Why not you choose any one you want?

Because it's your claim, not mine. That's how it work's around here.

ETA: but the ever helpful Stray Cat has given us one to talk about, so let's discuss the cc he posted.

[chuck4842]

I've already admitted some were proven man made and maybe all. Before I was pulled in another subject, we were discussing the odds of all the hundreds maybe thousands of illegal crop circles made, there have been very few arrests. I'm curious to the farmers reaction of this video. He must've given the makers permission.

[Stray Cat]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

I've already admitted some were proven man made and maybe all.

Then this was a lie?

Originally Posted by chuck4842

They know you cant make a crop circle like we've seen lately. You couldn't do it with gps or a nasa budget. Everybody knows your fibbing. Care to try?

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Before I was pulled in another subject, we were discussing the odds of all the hundreds maybe thousands of illegal crop circles made, there have been very few arrests.

There has been exactly one arrest.
He was fined £150 and he wasn't caught making the circle, he was dobbed in by a crop circle researcher whom he admitted making the circle to.
However, several teams have been caught in the act by crop circle researchers and followers. None of these encounters have lead to any further action.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

I'm curious to the farmers reaction of this video. He must've given the makers permission.

The farm is easy to look up. Contact the farmer and let us know what he says.

[23_Tauri]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

I've already admitted some were proven man made and maybe all.

which is why you have to give an example of a crop circle that you think couldn't be made by people, not me. I don't know which ones you think are man-made and which ones not, only you know that. So, would you be so kind?

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Before I was pulled in another subject,

No, looking back down the thread you weren't "pulled in another subject". In your post #591, you re-posted the posts of other posters regarding what you believe is the impossibility of all circles being man-made (because more people would talk). Therefore, it is directly relevant to ask you to provide examples of a crop circle that you consider to not be man-made. This is especially so, in light of #595 and #602 where you inferred that I was being flippant and then lying.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

we were discussing the odds of all the hundreds maybe thousands of illegal crop circles made, there have been very few arrests.

Big number of fields, small number of circle makers relative to number of fields. Even in Wiltshire.

Have you ever sat on a hillside at night, over-looking a field where circle makers are making a circle, to see for yourself whether the makers would be visible to you at a distance of - ooh - 700 yards?

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by 23_Tauri

Have you ever sat on a hillside at night, over-looking a field where circle makers are making a circle, to see for yourself whether the makers would be visible to you at a distance of - ooh - 700 yards?

If I was a farmer that had been violated, you can bet your aunts sweet pumpkin pie my answer would be yes. Are you saying the makers aren't using lights? They're all equipped with night vision and GPS handhelds with no light?

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

If I was a farmer that had been violated, you can bet your aunts sweet pumpkin pie my answer would be yes. Are you saying the makers aren't using lights? They're all equipped with night vision and GPS handhelds with no light?

Did you figure out which ones couldn't possibly have been made by humans yet?

[Lamuella]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

They know you cant make a crop circle like we've seen lately. You couldn't do it with gps or a nasa budget. Everybody knows your fibbing. Care to try?

making geometric designs in corn fields isn't very difficult. I've chatted with circle makers, and really all you need is a board and some rope.

Considering that we have a natural explanation for the existence of crop circles (people admitting to have made them), why would we need to invent a more complicated one?

[steenkh]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Are you saying the makers aren't using lights? They're all equipped with night vision and GPS handhelds with no light?

I have never read a description of circle makers using light. A cloudless night with a Moon seems to be enough, but some are of course also using hi-tech equipment.

[Stray Cat]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Are you saying the makers aren't using lights? They're all equipped with night vision and GPS handhelds with no light?

There is no need for GPS, there is no need for lights, there is no need for night vision beyond the ability of the human eye to see in the dark anyway.
It would be really silly to be on a covert operation and to use lights, so methods have been developed which don't require light.
Further, any light source (including night vision equipment) only inhibits the human eye to adapt to darkness and is therefore counterproductive.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Lamuella

making geometric designs in corn fields isn't very difficult. I've chatted with circle makers, and really all you need is a board and some rope.

Considering that we have a natural explanation for the existence of crop circles (people admitting to have made them), why would we need to invent a more complicated one?

I know. Crop circles are nothing; I've seen fields where all the straw has been mysteriously cut, and rolled up into big cylinders; in some cases it's then been wrapped in some synthetic black material. I don't see how some human could do that, with or without boards and rope!

[23_Tauri]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

If I was a farmer that had been violated, you can bet your aunts sweet pumpkin pie my answer would be yes. Are you saying the makers aren't using lights? They're all equipped with night vision and GPS handhelds with no light?

So your answer's a 'no' then.

I didn't ask you whether, if you were a farmer, you would be disgruntled at having your wheat flattened. I asked you whether you personally had any experience that might help you assess whether you could spot someone at night, in a field of wheat, 700 yards away.

[tsig]

Originally Posted by Lamuella

making geometric designs in corn fields isn't very difficult. I've chatted with circle makers, and really all you need is a board and some rope.

Considering that we have a natural explanation for the existence of crop circles (people admitting to have made them), why would we need to invent a more complicated one?

We have a circle maker posting here and I'm fairly sure that he's human.

[tsig]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

If I was a farmer that had been violated, you can bet your aunts sweet pumpkin pie my answer would be yes. Are you saying the makers aren't using lights? They're all equipped with night vision and GPS handhelds with no light?

Outraged incredulity always looks funny.

[tsig]

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

There is no need for GPS, there is no need for lights, there is no need for night vision beyond the ability of the human eye to see in the dark anyway.
It would be really silly to be on a covert operation and to use lights, so methods have been developed which don't require light.
Further, any light source (including night vision equipment) only inhibits the human eye to adapt to darkness and is therefore counterproductive.

Most people don't get far enough from a source of light to allow the eye to dark adapt so they have no idea how well you can see on all but the darkest night.

Of course, there are senses other than sight.

_{hearing and touch are useful even if blind}

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by 23_Tauri

I asked you whether you personally had any experience that might help you assess whether you could spot someone at night, in a field of wheat, 700 yards away.

Under the following conditions, I wouldn't need experience.

Originally Posted by tsig

Most people don't get far enough from a source of light to allow the eye to dark adapt so they have no idea how well you can see on all but the darkest night.

[Lamuella]

I don't think the sentence you quoted means what you think it means.

Tsig is talking about the ability of a circle maker in the dark to see what he or she is doing in the dark, not the ability of a farmer in a well lit house to see people are doing in the dark.

EDIT: it says you're from the piedmont area of NC. I lived in that area for 8 years, and I've had several nights where I went out into the middle of nowhere in parts of the piedmont (especially round bessemer city and kings mountain) with friends at night. After ten minutes or so, your eyes adjust well enough to see pretty clearly by moonlight alone. Don't confuse what you can see when you're on the porch of a well lit house with what someone in the dark can see.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Under the following conditions, I wouldn't need experience.

Unable to answer the questions, you're abandoning your argument?

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Originally Posted by 23_Tauri

Have you ever sat on a hillside at night, over-looking a field where circle makers are making a circle, to see for yourself whether the makers would be visible to you at a distance of - ooh - 700 yards?

If I was a farmer that had been violated, you can bet your aunts sweet pumpkin pie my answer would be yes.

I wouldn't mind hearing an explanation for how being 'violated' improves one's night vision.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Are you saying the makers aren't using lights?

That's what I'd say. It's certainly the best way to do sneaky things at night without being spotted.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

They're all equipped with night vision and GPS handhelds with no light?

Where are you getting that information from?

[beren]

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

I wouldn't mind hearing an explanation for how being 'violated' improves one's night vision.

I imagine one would tend to keep one's eyes open pretty wide after that . . . .

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by beren

I imagine one would tend to keep one's eyes open pretty wide after that . . . .

[23_Tauri]

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

I wouldn't mind hearing an explanation for how being 'violated' improves one's night vision.

Has it got anything do to with carrots?

[Robrob]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

They know you cant make a crop circle like we've seen lately. You couldn't do it with gps or a nasa budget. Everybody knows your fibbing. Care to try?

Stundied.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

If I was a farmer that had been violated, you can bet your aunts sweet pumpkin pie my answer would be yes. Are you saying the makers aren't using lights? They're all equipped with night vision and GPS handhelds with no light?

Not for nothing but people have been admitting to making them with just boards and rope for years.

Out of curiosity, have you ever actually been outside at night?

Originally Posted by chuck4842

I've already admitted some were proven man made and maybe all. Before I was pulled in another subject, we were discussing the odds of all the hundreds maybe thousands of illegal crop circles made, there have been very few arrests.

Because no one is watching a corn field at night, this is your "evidence?"

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by Stray Cat

What about this one?
The biggest crop circle ever made!

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...orphosisTr.jpg

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Let the denial begin.

Thanks for encouraging me on this one, it was a fantastic journey. I wish I could post other peoples pics like you do. I always end up with copyright violation warnings. Finding the "farmer" wasn't "easy". There's a user on the ATS forums named "Sol12" from the Netherlands who claims on his threads that the land is owned by the government for agricultural research and noone gave permission for the formation. The formation is 6 football fields by 5 football fields. Your vid shows a company taking credit for the formation named "XLD Sign", Sol12 points out on their website, that this formation is the only one that doesn't seem to line up or use the tram lines for reference. He also found the girl is also a "presenter" for BNN the news agency that broadcast the story. The vid you posted is a very unrevealing claim.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Thanks for encouraging me on this one, it was a fantastic journey. I wish I could post other peoples pics like you do. I always end up with copyright violation warnings. Finding the "farmer" wasn't "easy". There's a user on the ATS forums named "Sol12" from the Netherlands who claims on his threads that the land is owned by the government for agricultural research and noone gave permission for the formation. The formation is 6 football fields by 5 football fields. Your vid shows a company taking credit for the formation named "XLD Sign", Sol12 points out on their website, that this formation is the only one that doesn't seem to line up or use the tram lines for reference. He also found the girl is also a "presenter" for BNN the news agency that broadcast the story. The vid you posted is a very unrevealing claim.

Are you saying that the 'circle' in that video could not have been made by humans?

[Lamuella]

this whole thing is a massive and rather sad argument from incredulity.

[Stray Cat]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Thanks for encouraging me on this one, it was a fantastic journey. I wish I could post other peoples pics like you do. I always end up with copyright violation warnings.

I rarely post other people's pictures. When I do, I host them myself instead of hotlinking. You've had this explained to you before.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Finding the "farmer" wasn't "easy". There's a user on the ATS forums named "Sol12"

Well that's where you're going wrong.
Farmers don't usually hang out on the ATS forum.
Land Registry is the place to be finding out about that sort of stuff.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

from the Netherlands who claims on his threads that the land is owned by the government for agricultural research and noone gave permission for the formation.

"who claims"? I don't suppose there's any evidence presented too... just some internet dude making a claim.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

The formation is 6 football fields by 5 football fields. Your vid shows a company taking credit for the formation named "XLD Sign", Sol12 points out on their website, that this formation is the only one that doesn't seem to line up or use the tram lines for reference.

So?

Originally Posted by chuck4842

He also found the girl is also a "presenter" for BNN the news agency that broadcast the story. The vid you posted is a very unrevealing claim.

He didn't find that out at all. The girl has been openly making a series of short films of this kind called "before you die" or something similar. This fact is not covered up in the video I linked... But like I already said... "Let the denial begin"

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Are you saying that the 'circle' in that video could not have been made by humans?

No, I'm saying the vid doesn't prove who made it. If I showed you a vid containing a recent masterpiece of an oil painting, and also me dipping a brush in some paint and touching the canvas with it, and saying "see this is how I did it." Wouldn't you feel a little robbed of the lesson? Would you consider it evidence that I most likely was the artist?

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by Lamuella

this whole thing is a massive and rather sad argument from incredulity.

I'd think it was a step up out of depression for someone who'd own a porcupine that pissed on graves.