JREF Homepage Swift Blog Events Calendar $1 Million Paranormal Challenge The Amaz!ng Meeting Useful Links Support Us
James Randi Educational Foundation JREF Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   JREF Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
Click Here To Donate

Notices


Welcome to the JREF Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.

Tags cataract

Reply
Old 13th August 2010, 08:30 AM   #1
Yuri Nalyssus
Graduate Poster
 
Yuri Nalyssus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The Ancient Isle of Avignuon
Posts: 1,316
Ethos Bright Eyes

Has anyone heard of this stuff? http://www.ethos.ag/

The product (ethos bright eyes) claims to be able to treat cataracts in humans and dogs by the application of drops, promising 100% response (no definition of 'response') in the case of age related cataracts according to Chinese research.

There are numerous pub med references to an L-carnosine based treatment for cataracts but they predominantly feature one researcher and don't look too convincing to me, being low on numbers and high on hyperbole, some of the abstracts being almost indistinguishable from adverts:

"Overall, accumulated study data demonstrate that the IVP-designed new vision-saving drugs, including N-acetylcarnosine eyedrops, promote health vision and prevent vision disability from senile cataracts, primary open-angle glaucoma, age-related macular degeneration, diabetic retinopathy, and aging. N-acetylcarnosine eyedrop therapy is the crown jewel of the anti-aging medical movement and revolutionizes early detection, treatment, and rejuvenation of aging-related eye-disabling disorders. N-acetylcarnosine, as an innovative medical science tool and component of the home medicine and alternative medicine approaches, has the potential to alleviate visual impairment and its associated social, economic, and political woes for an aging population."

... crown jewel... political woes???

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19487926
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19149498
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15139774

My scepti-scope is reading red but I've been wrong before and I'd be grateful for any opinions received.

Cheers,

Yuri
__________________
www.rationalvetmed.org/ - because nothing is as good as homeopathy...
Yuri Nalyssus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th July 2011, 05:30 PM   #2
Turgor
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 363
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
You are right to be skeptical; <snip wall of text>
I agree with that sentence, after that I'm not so sure. Could you please instead of linking to a pdf that asserts that 100% of senile cataracts were cured by Carnosine as evidence for your assertion that Carnosine cures 100% of senile cataracts, link to any actual research, with data?

ETA: Oh i just now noticed the necromancy

Last edited by Turgor; 4th July 2011 at 05:32 PM.
Turgor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th July 2011, 05:44 PM   #3
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 17,696
Originally Posted by Turgor View Post
ETA: Oh i just now noticed the necromancy
It died in 1988, so there's a definite zombie quality to this one.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th July 2011, 10:56 PM   #4
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
It died in 1988, so there's a definite zombie quality to this one.
It didn't 'die'... it has been suppressed ever since, like so many other things the powers that be don't wan't people to know about... As I state above, cataracts surgery is already a $6.8 billion a year industry in the states alone and they definitely don't want a simple course of eye drops jeopardising that little revenue stream... As Professor John Marshall at St. Thomas's Hospital in London told me back in 2004; "...Yes, it sounds great, but please only sell them in Africa or India as I have a one and a half million pound a year cataracts business."

All the best

Ethos Pete...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th July 2011, 11:09 PM   #5
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
[quote=Turgor;7339407]I agree with that sentence, after that I'm not so sure. Could you please instead of linking to a pdf that asserts that 100% of senile cataracts were cured by Carnosine as evidence for your assertion that Carnosine cures 100% of senile cataracts, link to any actual research, with data?

That is the findings of Professor Wang's clinical trial listed in the pdf file... As it's states there, she did a further trial with 1,000 people with similar results... But like I also said, ALL data surrounding these trials has been suppressed for the above stated reasons...

See the 'before' and 'after' photos here: http://petdrops.com/

A picture paints a thousand words and this was a totally independent trial carried out at Broome Wildlife Sanctuary in Western Australia. Following Joey's brilliant results they are now doing another trial on a baby wallaby. Results with animals totally dispel any possibility that it is a placebo effect.

Also see Dr Elizabette Cohen WCBS880 News Radio Pet Vet's testimonial about Allie her dog on the same website.

The drops work... Hundreds of thousands of people the world over can attest to their results... It's just The Powers That Be don't want people knowing about them... It's as simple as that...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th July 2011, 11:18 PM   #6
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
You'll also note that the report stated 100% effectiveness on mild to moderate cataracts over their 6 months trial period and only 80% effectiveness on more advanced mature cataracts. I also stated that more severe cases can take more than six boxes to fully dissolve a more mature cataract.

We openly admit that nothing can possibly have a 100% effectiveness in all cases... But 90%+ of users do experience excellent results.
Mod WarningBreach of rule 4 removed. Do not copy and paste material from elsewhere.
Posted By:Cuddles

Last edited by Cuddles; 5th July 2011 at 05:09 AM. Reason: Line Space Formatting...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 02:19 AM   #7
catsmate1
Penultimate Amazing
 
catsmate1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Dublin (the one in Ireland)
Posts: 11,122
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
<much garbage snipped>
So not only are you pimping DVDs promoting conspiracy nonsense you're also pimping magic eye drops.
catsmate1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 04:22 AM   #8
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
So not only are you pimping DVDs promoting conspiracy nonsense you're also pimping magic eye drops.
The mind is like a parachute...

It works best when open...

As I said above, the eye drops were first discovered back in 1988 so are old news...

But if you think that eye drops dissolving cataracts are some form of 'magic' look up extracellular matrix compound and Anthony Atala's work on organ regeneration... Now that is what I call magic!

http://www.ted.com/speakers/anthony_atala.html

Up until only very recently all 'scientists' believed that it was impossible for bumble bees to fly... but it never seemed to stop them from flying...

All the best

Ethos Pete...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 04:28 AM   #9
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,322
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
The mind is like a parachute...

It works best when open...

As I said above, the eye drops were first discovered back in 1988 so are old news...

But if you think that eye drops dissolving cataracts are some form of 'magic' look up extracellular matrix compound and Anthony Atala's work on organ regeneration... Now that is what I call magic!

http://www.ted.com/speakers/anthony_atala.html

Up until only very recently all 'scientists' believed that it was impossible for bumble bees to fly... but it never seemed to stop them from flying...

All the best

Ethos Pete...
And now he's using the old "bumble bee" line...good grief!
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 04:35 AM   #10
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
Eye drops for dissolving cataracts is old news... it's just been suppressed...

Organ regrowth is also old news but is no longer suppressed as it's a brand new industry and doesn't threaten an existing one... like cataracts $6.8 billion a year in the states alone for surgery...

Here's the 'Magic' dust... ExtraCellular Matrix Compound... Next you'll be telling me this is 'magic' too...

Medicine's Cutting Edge: Re-Growing Organs
February 11, 2009 3:13 PM


(CBS) Imagine re-growing a severed fingertip, or creating an organ in the lab that can be transplanted into a patient without risk of rejection. It sounds like science fiction, but it's not. It's the burgeoning field of regenerative medicine, in which scientists are learning to harness the body's own power to regenerate itself, with astonishing results. Correspondent Wyatt Andrews brings you to the scientific frontier.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3960219.shtml

The truth is out there... The truth will set you free...

All the best

Ethos Pete...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 04:43 AM   #11
catsmate1
Penultimate Amazing
 
catsmate1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Dublin (the one in Ireland)
Posts: 11,122
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
The mind is like a parachute...

It works best when open...
Ah, trying to wallpaper over your lack of facts and evidence with the usual garbage.

Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
As I said above, the eye drops were first discovered back in 1988 so are old news...

But if you think that eye drops dissolving cataracts are some form of 'magic' look up extracellular matrix compound and Anthony Atala's work on organ regeneration... Now that is what I call magic!

http://www.ted.com/speakers/anthony_atala.html
And the properly conducted trials and peer reviewed analysis?

Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
Up until only very recently all 'scientists' believed that it was impossible for bumble bees to fly... but it never seemed to stop them from flying...
No actually they didn't. Either you know this is untrue, and are deliberately repeating a lie, or you haven't bothered to check your "facts" which rather casts your magic cataract drops in doubt.

Further I note that one of your posts began "We openly admit", is this an admission that you have an interest is selling the magic cataract drops?
catsmate1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 04:43 AM   #12
Ethan Thane Athen
Graduate Poster
 
Ethan Thane Athen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,127
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
It didn't 'die'... it has been suppressed ever since, like so many other things the powers that be don't wan't people to know about... As I state above, cataracts surgery is already a $6.8 billion a year industry in the states alone and they definitely don't want a simple course of eye drops jeopardising that little revenue stream... As Professor John Marshall at St. Thomas's Hospital in London told me back in 2004; "...Yes, it sounds great, but please only sell them in Africa or India as I have a one and a half million pound a year cataracts business."

All the best

Ethos Pete...
I assume he's happy for you to quote him or that you have proof that he said exactly that, else you may find yourself on the end of a litigation case...
Ethan Thane Athen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 04:49 AM   #13
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
And now he's using the old "bumble bee" line...good grief!
Okay, I'll use a different example if you prefer...

Up until very recently 'scientists' still believed that conventional current flowed from positive to negative... Then they had to re-write all their text books...

When microwave ovens first came out many people thought that they would die from radiation sickness...

The Flat Earth society is another prime example...

Any theory is only a theory until it is replaced by a newer one...

All 'new' discoveries get ridiculed... until enough enlightened people share the same views... Then they become fact...

Next you'll be telling me that you believe Darwin's theory of evolution and that you evolved from the apes... lol

All the very best

Ethos Pete...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 04:51 AM   #14
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,322
He doesn't want the money from Africa and India?
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 04:52 AM   #15
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,322
Quote:
Next you'll be telling me that you believe Darwin's theory of evolution and that you evolved from the apes
Is that what the TOE says?
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 04:55 AM   #16
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
I assume he's happy for you to quote him or that you have proof that he said exactly that, else you may find yourself on the end of a litigation case...
I doubt very much that he is happy that I recount his exact words and I bet that he regrets ever uttering them.

Yes, Professor Steven Charles Gallant, our Professor of Bio-Chemistry, was in the same meeting in St. Thomas's Hospital in 2004 and witnessed that those were his exact words.

I only ever speak the truth... I have no need nor reason to lie...

If he would like to go for litigation I only have to ask him to take a simple lie detector test along with me and end of case...

The Truth is out there... The truth will set you free...

All the best

Ethos Pete...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 04:58 AM   #17
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
He doesn't want the money from Africa and India?
No, he just wanted me to only sell them in third world countries so as not to upset his one and a half million pound a year cataracts operation business.

That was back in 2004 and so I am sure that his business is even more successful now.

Darwin's TOE ... mmmmmm... same as Einstein's TOR I guess...

All the best

Ethos Pete...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 05:08 AM   #18
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
Ah, trying to wallpaper over your lack of facts and evidence with the usual garbage.
And the properly conducted trials and peer reviewed analysis?
No actually they didn't. Either you know this is untrue, and are deliberately repeating a lie, or you haven't bothered to check your "facts" which rather casts your magic cataract drops in doubt.
Further I note that one of your posts began "We openly admit", is this an admission that you have an interest is selling the magic cataract drops?
If you read my original post you will see that it is my company that sells Bright Eyes, magic or otherwise, Drops for cataracts... and I'm very proud of the fact as we have helped literally hundreds of thousands of people the world over to regain their sight without undergoing traumatic and invasive cataracts surgery... Rightly or wrongly I think it is a very good thing and that we are supplying a very useful and beneficial product... I stand behind all of my Ethos products with a rock-solid and unshakable belief in them, period. All Ethos Products do exactly what they say on the tin, period.

All the very best

Ethos Pete...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 05:11 AM   #19
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
Me having the user name 'ethospete' was another very big clue that I sell the Ethos eye drops too...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 05:17 AM   #20
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,322
These type of eye drops are available from several different sources. Whoever is suppressing the idea is doing a poor job.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 05:24 AM   #21
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tuolumne City, CA
Posts: 20,280
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
No, he just wanted me to only sell them in third world countries so as not to upset his one and a half million pound a year cataracts operation business.

That was back in 2004 and so I am sure that his business is even more successful now.

Darwin's TOE ... mmmmmm... same as Einstein's TOR I guess...

All the best

Ethos Pete...
So that there isn't a derail I encourage you to start another thread to flesh out that idea.
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 05:27 AM   #22
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
These type of eye drops are available from several different sources. Whoever is suppressing the idea is doing a poor job.
Yes, they are readily available from several different sources as you very rightly say...

But, had you ever heard about them before you read this post..?

Considering they were first discovered back in 1988 and first marketed in 2000 isn't it a little bit odd that everybody hasn't already heard about them already..?

As the US Doctors newsletter I quoted above states...

The enormous benefits of NAC eye drops should be the topic of every nightly newscast and front-page headlines on every newspaper - but you and I both know that just won't happen. Cataract surgery and treatment has become too big of a business. With the oldest of the baby boomers just now beginning to reach the age where cataracts starts to form, the condition will become a surgical "cash cow".

It's all the main-stream media that keeps the information suppressed...

All the best

Ethos Pete...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 05:31 AM   #23
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
So that there isn't a derail I encourage you to start another thread to flesh out that idea.
That's an excellent idea... if I knew how to convert it into a different thread..?

All the best

Ethos Pete...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 05:39 AM   #24
Maurice Ledifficile
Lost in translation
 
Maurice Ledifficile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 1,265
Evolution happened.
Thread topics are not suppressed.
Your product is a scam.
This is not the place to sell your product.
Spam and eggs; eggs with spam; spam, spam and sausage...
__________________
"There is a plenty of proof, but unfortunately it is entirely unprovable." - Punshhh
"There’s a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore like an idiot." – Stephen Wright
Maurice Ledifficile is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 05:50 AM   #25
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,631
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
These type of eye drops are available from several different sources. Whoever is suppressing the idea is doing a poor job.
Perhaps it's only the evidence of efficacy that's been suppressed.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 06:01 AM   #26
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
Look above... My original post has already been removed... And you say that this information isn't suppressed!!!

I thought this forum was open for open discussion... but obviously not...

What a joke... lol

Bye for now friends...

Ethos Pete...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 06:04 AM   #27
ethospete
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London
Posts: 34
P.S. I rest my case...
ethospete is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 06:35 AM   #28
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,322
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
P.S. I rest my case...
Rewrite your post so that it doesn't violate the board's rules...

No one is suppressing such eye drops. Not even yours.

Everyone who googles the subject in any of several ways, will get a link to such eye drops.

There is even much discussion encouraging the use of such drops along with surgery.

Whether they do anything or not is for the buyer to decide.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 06:51 AM   #29
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 25,383
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
The mind is like a parachute...

It works best when open...

http://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459.abstract

__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 06:55 AM   #30
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 25,383
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
Look above... My original post has already been removed... And you say that this information isn't suppressed!!!

I thought this forum was open for open discussion... but obviously not...

What a joke... lol

Bye for now friends...

Ethos Pete...
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
P.S. I rest my case...

See Rule 6 (which you agreed to follow when you signed up). I suspect that much of the content of that post will have been considered overly promotional.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 07:04 AM   #31
Cuddles
Decoy
Moderator
 
Cuddles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies
Posts: 18,310
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
Considering they were first discovered back in 1988 and first marketed in 2000 isn't it a little bit odd that everybody hasn't already heard about them already..?
No, not in the slightest. Firstly, why on Earth should everybody have heard of them at all? It's a claimed treatment for an ailment that the majority of people in the world don't have. Most people don't know what treatments are available for surfer's ear either, that doesn't mean they're being suppressed.

Secondly, by far the most obvious reason even those interested might not have heard of it is because it's a scam. It's practically a textbook example of extraordinary claims backed up by zero evidence, unverifiable testimonials, accusations of wild conspiracies, and spam. When the response to questions or criticism is not to point to peer reviewed publications but instead accuse the entire world of conspiring against you, it's generally a fair indication that the claims aren't worth taking seriously.

Thirdly, even if not a deliberate scam, there's simply no evidence. Maybe every single person with cataracts actually has heard of this, they're just correctly told that it doesn't work and promptly ignore it in favour of real medicine.

Finally, maybe you just suck at marketing? It doesn't matter how amazing a product is if you're incapable of convincing anyone to actually buy it. Spam and conspiracy theories are really rather unlikely to convince anyone, and most people will just tune it straight out. It's the same situation we see with cold fusion proponents - if they're so sure they're claims are correct, why do they go to so much trouble to make them look exactly like a scam?
__________________
If I let myself get hung up on only doing things that had any actual chance of success, I'd never do anything!
Cuddles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 07:14 AM   #32
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 25,383
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
It's all the main-stream media that keeps the information suppressed...

Because the main-stream media never, ever, run uncritical stories about "alternative" treatments.[/sarcasm]
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 07:33 AM   #33
Emet
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,395
Okay. I did a little digging, but won't be posting links.

The parent company has an affiliate program: they either started as, or are branching into network marketing/multi-level marketing.

Ugh.
Emet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 08:09 AM   #34
fls
Penultimate Amazing
 
fls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,236
Originally Posted by Yuri Nalyssus View Post
There are numerous pub med references to an L-carnosine based treatment for cataracts but they predominantly feature one researcher and don't look too convincing to me, being low on numbers and high on hyperbole, some of the abstracts being almost indistinguishable from adverts:

"Overall, accumulated study data demonstrate that the IVP-designed new vision-saving drugs, including N-acetylcarnosine eyedrops, promote health vision and prevent vision disability from senile cataracts, primary open-angle glaucoma, age-related macular degeneration, diabetic retinopathy, and aging. N-acetylcarnosine eyedrop therapy is the crown jewel of the anti-aging medical movement and revolutionizes early detection, treatment, and rejuvenation of aging-related eye-disabling disorders. N-acetylcarnosine, as an innovative medical science tool and component of the home medicine and alternative medicine approaches, has the potential to alleviate visual impairment and its associated social, economic, and political woes for an aging population."

... crown jewel... political woes???

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19487926
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19149498
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15139774

My scepti-scope is reading red but I've been wrong before and I'd be grateful for any opinions received.

Cheers,

Yuri
I also found the abstract in the first link quite bizarre. I looked through the other abstracts in that journal and they appear quite ordinary. I find it very odd that advertising language, rather than the language of medical research reporting, was allowed through peer-review. Then, reference is made in passing to an RCT involving 50,000 subjects, but no details whatsoever are provided? I find its inclusion in what appears to be an ordinary sort of peer-reviewed journal to be inexplicable.

Linda
__________________
God:a capricious creative or controlling force said to be the subject of a religion.
Evidence is anything that tends to make a proposition more or less true.-Loss Leader
SCAM will now be referred to as DIM (Demonstrably Ineffective Medicine)
Look how nicely I'm not reminding you you're dumb.-Happy Bunny
When I give an example, do not assume I am excluding every other possible example. Thank you.
fls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 08:10 AM   #35
Turgor
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 363
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
That is the findings of Professor Wang's clinical trial listed in the pdf file... As it's states there, she did a further trial with 1,000 people with similar results... But like I also said, ALL data surrounding these trials has been suppressed for the above stated reasons...
So the research was never published? How can you make claims based on unpublished results?
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
The drops work... Hundreds of thousands of people the world over can attest to their results... It's just The Powers That Be don't want people knowing about them... It's as simple as that...
Your conspiracy theory doesn't stack up with the fact that a quick search on pubmed reveals this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?t...ine%20cataract
Had you simply linked to any study on that list, or even the list itself, you might have convinced me. Or at least given us something to debate over. Reading the abstracts it does seem to me carnosine has an effect on cataracts and their formation. But most studies seem rather small.

But your tactic of blaming the apparent lack of information on conspiracies of eye surgeons makes me very wary of just accepting any positive studies that are out there without full access (which I sadly don't have).
Turgor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 08:14 AM   #36
Turgor
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 363
Originally Posted by Emet View Post
Okay. I did a little digging, but won't be posting links.

The parent company has an affiliate program: they either started as, or are branching into network marketing/multi-level marketing.

Ugh.
That parent company is Innovative Vision Products, Inc. i assume? I saw their name on nearly every abstract.
Turgor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 08:18 AM   #37
Turgor
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 363
Originally Posted by fls View Post
I also found the abstract in the first link quite bizarre. I looked through the other abstracts in that journal and they appear quite ordinary. I find it very odd that advertising language, rather than the language of medical research reporting, was allowed through peer-review. Then, reference is made in passing to an RCT involving 50,000 subjects, but no details whatsoever are provided? I find its inclusion in what appears to be an ordinary sort of peer-reviewed journal to be inexplicable.

Linda
Yeah, that abstract caught my eye as something that might look at first glance to be a large study (what with the words "a clinical study of the new vision-saving drug N-acetylcarnosine eyedrop therapy in a database population of over 50,500 patients"). But then they start of by describing in vitro tests... the second half of that abstract seems to have nothing to do with the first half.
Turgor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 08:26 AM   #38
catsmate1
Penultimate Amazing
 
catsmate1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Dublin (the one in Ireland)
Posts: 11,122
Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
Okay, I'll use a different example if you prefer...

Up until very recently 'scientists' still believed that conventional current flowed from positive to negative... Then they had to re-write all their text books...
So now we can add basic electrodynamics to the list of subjects you don't understand.

Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
When microwave ovens first came out many people thought that they would die from radiation sickness...

The Flat Earth society is another prime example...
Ignorant people belive in stupid stuff, chiropractic, homeopathy, radionics, quack medicine in general, giant conspiracies..........
This, however, has no effect on facts.

Any theory is only a theory until it is replaced by a newer one...

Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
All 'new' discoveries get ridiculed... until enough enlightened people share the same views... Then they become fact...
No. Many new 'discoveries' remain nonsense because they're simply untrue.

Originally Posted by ethospete View Post
Next you'll be telling me that you believe Darwin's theory of evolution and that you evolved from the apes... lol
Like rational and intelligent people in general I accept evolution is true (nice "you evolved from the apes" strawman). That you apparently do not accept evolution says an awful lot about you, none of it good.


And don't forget we're still waiting for your evidence that you magic cataract drops actually work. In you haste to snipe you seem to have forgotten about this.
catsmate1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 08:27 AM   #39
Emet
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,395
Originally Posted by Turgor View Post
That parent company is Innovative Vision Products, Inc. i assume? I saw their name on nearly every abstract.
Nope. The company I researched is the company mentioned in the OP.*



* I found a few other ways to search out the details--as I knew nothing about MLMs a while back, despite being a licensed veterinarian. I had heard of the big MLMs, and knew of folks who sold the products-- but my personal interactions were with... you know... legitimate sales reps. I spent a lot of time investigating MLMs before I moved on.
Emet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 08:27 AM   #40
catsmate1
Penultimate Amazing
 
catsmate1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Dublin (the one in Ireland)
Posts: 11,122
Originally Posted by Emet View Post
Okay. I did a little digging, but won't be posting links.

The parent company has an affiliate program: they either started as, or are branching into network marketing/multi-level marketing.

Ugh.
So a pyramid scheme selling quack remedies. A match made in heaven.
catsmate1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

JREF Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:42 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2001-2013, James Randi Educational Foundation. All Rights Reserved.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.