One World Gov't; seizing guns; and State Dept. publication 7277

Ladewig · 16th August 2010, 06:49 AM

I see the one of the purposes of the Conspiracy sub-forum as debunking false interpretations of past events, quotes, and documents.

While researching the number of guns in the U.S.,¹ I came across the claim that in 1961, the U.S. government actually announced its desire to remove all guns from the hands of Americans before turning the military over to the U.N.

The conspiracists are referring to Department of State Publication 7277 (Disarmament Series 5) Released September 1961. The entire text can be found on this semi-official government site (run by University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC)). The document is genuine, but should be taken in context. The U.S. and the Soviet Union were looking for a formal approach to disarmament talks. They finally agreed that the U.N. could be helpful in this respect. The state department wrote this U.N. proposal which was introduced to the U.N. Quite, obviously,as the negotiations progressed, neither side decided that this particular plan was going to meet their needs, so both sides backed away from it. Fortunately, however, the discussions from this U.N. proposal paved the way for nuclear weapon treaties in the next 20 years. The document does not (as some claim) carry the weight of law and was not a goal of any administration in the past 25 years.

The document does not specifically mention removing guns from the hands of Americans not in the military, but some might interpret the phrase "national arsenal" to include privately owned guns.

.................................................. .........
1) estimates with an identifiable, but not necessarily good methodology range from 192 to 283, estimates with no discernible methodology range from 150 to 370.

Gawdzilla · 16th August 2010, 06:52 AM

Gee, peace is a bad thing, ain't it?

BTW, I own more guns than the Hezzbolah, so don't go there.

Cuddles · 16th August 2010, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

While researching the number of guns in the U.S.,¹

1) estimates with an identifiable, but not necessarily good methodology range from 192 to 283, estimates with no discernible methodology range from 150 to 370.

I'm reasonably sure there are more guns than that in the US.

Ladewig · 16th August 2010, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Gawdzilla

Gee, peace is a bad thing, ain't it?

BTW, I own more guns than the Hezzbolah, so don't go there.

Don't go where? I just wanted to know how many guns were in the U.S. I had no intention of arguing in favor of or against any gun policies.

The Charnel Expanse · 16th August 2010, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

I just wanted to know how many guns were in the U.S.

Does "a lot" not suffice as an answer?

dudalb · 16th August 2010, 12:33 PM

A major reason I quit the NRA despite my strong support for The Right of citizens to own a firearm is that they push conspiracy crap like this.

Gawdzilla · 16th August 2010, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

Don't go where? I just wanted to know how many guns were in the U.S. I had no intention of arguing in favor of or against any gun policies.

Not you in particular, just bud-nipping somebody who would want to call me a tree-hugger/anti-gun nut. I know this forum.

Gawdzilla · 16th August 2010, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by The Charnel Expanse

Does "a lot" not suffice as an answer?

"a whole bleeping lot", not to put too fine a point on it.

TheRedWorm · 16th August 2010, 03:13 PM

Well, I own 5. One of my friends owns 3, another 2, and one of my professors 10. So that's 20/370, or roughly 5% of all guns in the U.S. between 4 people.

Gawdzilla · 16th August 2010, 03:30 PM

Um, when we're talking "guns" here, we're talking those with two wheels or less, right? If not I gotta change my total.

Ladewig · 16th August 2010, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by TheRedWorm

Well, I own 5. One of my friends owns 3, another 2, and one of my professors 10. So that's 20/370, or roughly 5% of all guns in the U.S. between 4 people.

While I usually bitch at the pedants, I will accept that you are absolutely correct and I was absolutely wrong to leave the "million" off of each figure.

Horatius · 16th August 2010, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gawdzilla

Um, when we're talking "guns" here, we're talking those with two wheels or less, right?

Only if you're a liberal wuss.

Zep · 16th August 2010, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by gawdzilla

not you in particular, just bud-nipping somebody who would want to call me a tree-hugger/anti-gun nut. I know this forum.

you're just a tree-hugging anti-gun nut!

Brought to you by Zep, living up to expectations since 2002!

Gawdzilla · 16th August 2010, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Horatius

Only if you're a liberal wuss.

Oh, good! And tracked vehicles? (M114 in the garage.)

talkie toaster · 17th August 2010, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

I see the one of the purposes of the Conspiracy sub-forum as debunking false interpretations of past events, quotes, and documents.

While researching the number of guns in the U.S.,¹ I came across the claim that in 1961, the U.S. government actually announced its desire to remove all guns from the hands of Americans before turning the military over to the U.N.

The conspiracists are referring to Department of State Publication 7277 (Disarmament Series 5) Released September 1961. The entire text can be found on this semi-official government site (run by University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC)). The document is genuine, but should be taken in context. The U.S. and the Soviet Union were looking for a formal approach to disarmament talks. They finally agreed that the U.N. could be helpful in this respect. The state department wrote this U.N. proposal which was introduced to the U.N. Quite, obviously,as the negotiations progressed, neither side decided that this particular plan was going to meet their needs, so both sides backed away from it. Fortunately, however, the discussions from this U.N. proposal paved the way for nuclear weapon treaties in the next 20 years. The document does not (as some claim) carry the weight of law and was not a goal of any administration in the past 25 years.

The document does not specifically mention removing guns from the hands of Americans not in the military, but some might interpret the phrase "national arsenal" to include privately owned guns.

.................................................. .........
1) estimates with an identifiable, but not necessarily good methodology range from 192 to 283, estimates with no discernible methodology range from 150 to 370.

The start of a good Conspiracy Theory:

Find yourself a Gov't document with suitable title.
Don't read the full document, NEVER read it in full
Post document on some favourable CT website.

Bingo, within a short time other ~~retards~~...~~thickos~~....misguided CTers will latch on to said document as proof of whatever they are trying to prove and in next to no time "You done got yourself honest to goodness proof of........."

There was one on a Chemtrail(eeuugh!!) thread with a PDF from a Parliament sub committee meeting on regulation of airborne aerosols and discussion of Geoengineering and subsequent introduction of regulations etc. This quickly became proof that the Gov't were indeed sparaying and generally messing up the skies.

I'll try and find the PDF if I can.

Ladewig · 17th August 2010, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by talkie toaster

The start of a good Conspiracy Theory:

Find yourself a Gov't document with suitable title.
Don't read the full document, NEVER read it in full
Post document on some favourable CT website.

Bingo, within a short time other ~~retards~~...~~thickos~~....misguided CTers will latch on to said document as proof of whatever they are trying to prove and in next to no time "You done got yourself honest to goodness proof of........."

There was one on a Chemtrail(eeuugh!!) thread with a PDF from a Parliament sub committee meeting on regulation of airborne aerosols and discussion of Geoengineering and subsequent introduction of regulations etc. This quickly became proof that the Gov't were indeed sparaying and generally messing up the skies.

I'll try and find the PDF if I can.

Well, it is easier if you start in the 1960's when the only way to find the publication was to contact the government and pay fifteen cents for it. Granted that is not a very high bar, but apparently it was high enough for some people.

TjW · 17th August 2010, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

Well, it is easier if you start in the 1960's when the only way to find the publication was to contact the government and pay fifteen cents for it. Granted that is not a very high bar, but apparently it was high enough for some people.

Thus the origin of the expression "Nickel and diming us to death".

ShadowSot · 17th August 2010, 03:50 PM

I have a shotgun and a pistol.
The shotgun you get for free as part of living in the South.

Gawdzilla · 17th August 2010, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by ShadowSot

I have a shotgun and a pistol.
The shotgun you get for free as part of living in the South.

I went to a formal wedding in Arkansas once. I could tell it was a high-falutin' affair, even the shotguns were white.

Ranb · 19th August 2010, 02:19 PM

I live in WA. It is one of those states that only bans the guns rarely associated with crime and allows you to own certain others, but not use some of them. And most gun owners think that is just fine.

Ranb

16th August 2010, 06:49 AM	#1
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,929	One World Gov't; seizing guns; and State Dept. publication 7277 I see the one of the purposes of the Conspiracy sub-forum as debunking false interpretations of past events, quotes, and documents. While researching the number of guns in the U.S.,¹ I came across the claim that in 1961, the U.S. government actually announced its desire to remove all guns from the hands of Americans before turning the military over to the U.N. The conspiracists are referring to Department of State Publication 7277 (Disarmament Series 5) Released September 1961. The entire text can be found on this semi-official government site (run by University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC)). The document is genuine, but should be taken in context. The U.S. and the Soviet Union were looking for a formal approach to disarmament talks. They finally agreed that the U.N. could be helpful in this respect. The state department wrote this U.N. proposal which was introduced to the U.N. Quite, obviously,as the negotiations progressed, neither side decided that this particular plan was going to meet their needs, so both sides backed away from it. Fortunately, however, the discussions from this U.N. proposal paved the way for nuclear weapon treaties in the next 20 years. The document does not (as some claim) carry the weight of law and was not a goal of any administration in the past 25 years. The document does not specifically mention removing guns from the hands of Americans not in the military, but some might interpret the phrase "national arsenal" to include privately owned guns. .................................................. ......... 1) estimates with an identifiable, but not necessarily good methodology range from 192 to 283, estimates with no discernible methodology range from 150 to 370.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board. Last edited by Ladewig; 16th August 2010 at 06:50 AM.

16th August 2010, 06:52 AM	#2
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,843	Gee, peace is a bad thing, ain't it? BTW, I own more guns than the Hezzbolah, so don't go there.
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

16th August 2010, 07:43 AM	#3
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,672	Originally Posted by Ladewig While researching the number of guns in the U.S.,¹ 1) estimates with an identifiable, but not necessarily good methodology range from 192 to 283, estimates with no discernible methodology range from 150 to 370. I'm reasonably sure there are more guns than that in the US.
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

16th August 2010, 07:47 AM	#4
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,929	Originally Posted by Gawdzilla Gee, peace is a bad thing, ain't it? BTW, I own more guns than the Hezzbolah, so don't go there. Don't go where? I just wanted to know how many guns were in the U.S. I had no intention of arguing in favor of or against any gun policies.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

16th August 2010, 02:00 PM	#7
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,843	Originally Posted by Ladewig Don't go where? I just wanted to know how many guns were in the U.S. I had no intention of arguing in favor of or against any gun policies. Not you in particular, just bud-nipping somebody who would want to call me a tree-hugger/anti-gun nut. I know this forum.
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

16th August 2010, 08:23 AM	#5
The Charnel Expanse Muse Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: The Transition Hospital Posts: 940	Originally Posted by Ladewig I just wanted to know how many guns were in the U.S. Does "a lot" not suffice as an answer?

16th August 2010, 12:33 PM	#6
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 23,014	A major reason I quit the NRA despite my strong support for The Right of citizens to own a firearm is that they push conspiracy crap like this.

16th August 2010, 02:01 PM	#8
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,843	Originally Posted by The Charnel Expanse Does "a lot" not suffice as an answer? "a whole bleeping lot", not to put too fine a point on it.
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

16th August 2010, 03:13 PM	#9
TheRedWorm I AM the Red Worm! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Body: Michigan, Heart: Chicago Posts: 3,980	Well, I own 5. One of my friends owns 3, another 2, and one of my professors 10. So that's 20/370, or roughly 5% of all guns in the U.S. between 4 people.
	__________________ See I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve. -Joker Working them to death is murder. Making them live like pigs and dying from disease is murder. Shooting them next to a ditch is murder. Digging them up and burning them to hide your murder, is extra credit evil. -beachnut

16th August 2010, 03:30 PM	#10
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,843	Um, when we're talking "guns" here, we're talking those with two wheels or less, right? If not I gotta change my total.
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

16th August 2010, 03:50 PM	#11
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,929	Originally Posted by TheRedWorm Well, I own 5. One of my friends owns 3, another 2, and one of my professors 10. So that's 20/370, or roughly 5% of all guns in the U.S. between 4 people. While I usually bitch at the pedants, I will accept that you are absolutely correct and I was absolutely wrong to leave the "million" off of each figure.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

16th August 2010, 04:11 PM	#12
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada Posts: 22,020	Originally Posted by Gawdzilla Um, when we're talking "guns" here, we're talking those with two wheels or less, right? Only if you're a liberal wuss.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

16th August 2010, 04:54 PM	#13
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Originally Posted by gawdzilla not you in particular, just bud-nipping somebody who would want to call me a tree-hugger/anti-gun nut. I know this forum. you're just a tree-hugging anti-gun nut! Brought to you by Zep, living up to expectations since 2002!
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Last edited by Zep; 16th August 2010 at 04:55 PM.

16th August 2010, 04:55 PM	#14
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,843	Originally Posted by Horatius Only if you're a liberal wuss. Oh, good! And tracked vehicles? (M114 in the garage.)
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

17th August 2010, 04:15 AM	#15
talkie toaster Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Hey !! I've been upgraded, got a shelf all to my own....Go Talkie, Go Talkie Posts: 358	Originally Posted by Ladewig I see the one of the purposes of the Conspiracy sub-forum as debunking false interpretations of past events, quotes, and documents. While researching the number of guns in the U.S.,¹ I came across the claim that in 1961, the U.S. government actually announced its desire to remove all guns from the hands of Americans before turning the military over to the U.N. The conspiracists are referring to Department of State Publication 7277 (Disarmament Series 5) Released September 1961. The entire text can be found on this semi-official government site (run by University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC)). The document is genuine, but should be taken in context. The U.S. and the Soviet Union were looking for a formal approach to disarmament talks. They finally agreed that the U.N. could be helpful in this respect. The state department wrote this U.N. proposal which was introduced to the U.N. Quite, obviously,as the negotiations progressed, neither side decided that this particular plan was going to meet their needs, so both sides backed away from it. Fortunately, however, the discussions from this U.N. proposal paved the way for nuclear weapon treaties in the next 20 years. The document does not (as some claim) carry the weight of law and was not a goal of any administration in the past 25 years. The document does not specifically mention removing guns from the hands of Americans not in the military, but some might interpret the phrase "national arsenal" to include privately owned guns. .................................................. ......... 1) estimates with an identifiable, but not necessarily good methodology range from 192 to 283, estimates with no discernible methodology range from 150 to 370. The start of a good Conspiracy Theory: Find yourself a Gov't document with suitable title. Don't read the full document, NEVER read it in full Post document on some favourable CT website. Bingo, within a short time other ~~retards~~...~~thickos~~....misguided CTers will latch on to said document as proof of whatever they are trying to prove and in next to no time "You done got yourself honest to goodness proof of........." There was one on a Chemtrail(eeuugh!!) thread with a PDF from a Parliament sub committee meeting on regulation of airborne aerosols and discussion of Geoengineering and subsequent introduction of regulations etc. This quickly became proof that the Gov't were indeed sparaying and generally messing up the skies. I'll try and find the PDF if I can.

17th August 2010, 06:16 AM	#16
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,929	Originally Posted by talkie toaster The start of a good Conspiracy Theory: Find yourself a Gov't document with suitable title. Don't read the full document, NEVER read it in full Post document on some favourable CT website. Bingo, within a short time other ~~retards~~...~~thickos~~....misguided CTers will latch on to said document as proof of whatever they are trying to prove and in next to no time "You done got yourself honest to goodness proof of........." There was one on a Chemtrail(eeuugh!!) thread with a PDF from a Parliament sub committee meeting on regulation of airborne aerosols and discussion of Geoengineering and subsequent introduction of regulations etc. This quickly became proof that the Gov't were indeed sparaying and generally messing up the skies. I'll try and find the PDF if I can. Well, it is easier if you start in the 1960's when the only way to find the publication was to contact the government and pay fifteen cents for it. Granted that is not a very high bar, but apparently it was high enough for some people.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

17th August 2010, 07:39 AM	#17
TjW Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: up in the air Posts: 10,108	Originally Posted by Ladewig Well, it is easier if you start in the 1960's when the only way to find the publication was to contact the government and pay fifteen cents for it. Granted that is not a very high bar, but apparently it was high enough for some people. Thus the origin of the expression "Nickel and diming us to death".
	__________________ TjW People like TjW -- Kelly

17th August 2010, 03:50 PM	#18
ShadowSot Muse Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pensacola Posts: 782	I have a shotgun and a pistol. The shotgun you get for free as part of living in the South.
	__________________ I love this crazy tragic, sometimes almost magic, awful beautiful life. - Darryl Worley The Stupid! It burns!

17th August 2010, 04:33 PM	#19
Gawdzilla 121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern St. Louis County, Missouri. Posts: 13,843	Originally Posted by ShadowSot I have a shotgun and a pistol. The shotgun you get for free as part of living in the South. I went to a formal wedding in Arkansas once. I could tell it was a high-falutin' affair, even the shotguns were white.
	__________________ World War II Diplomatic and Political Resources Hyperwar, WWII Military History Kido Butai did not transmit. 木戸舞台は、無線メッセージを送信しませんでした

19th August 2010, 02:19 PM	#20
Ranb Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 4,202	I live in WA. It is one of those states that only bans the guns rarely associated with crime and allows you to own certain others, but not use some of them. And most gun owners think that is just fine. Ranb