My folk high school is promoting "woo", horses fall prey to scams

Safe-Keeper · 18th August 2010, 03:36 PM

Okay, so for those who haven't read my thread in the Forum Community, I'm enrolling in a folk high school. I'm taking the school's circus course, but it also have two courses (introductory or advanced) in the field of horses. Now, today when I logged onto Facebook, I saw a news update from the school that said people selling saddles would visit the school in September. All right, fair enough, but the ad the folk high school presented, complete with bad formatting and errors in spelling and grammar, boasted that they now also provide alternative therapies. Biolight. Pressure point therapy. Homeopathy. Their visit will be on the 10th and 11th of September, and interested students are told to sign up in advance to have their horses examined. The price for a thermography picture, treatment and saddle adjustment (don't know what the English term is) is 675 crowns, or close to a whooping 110 US dollars.

First off I took a look at biolight. You can google it yourself, but it essentially entails shining a very expensive infared flashlight at the horse's body. I have no idea how they justify the "bio" prefix. Either way, I found a blog that had an ad/personal testimonial in Norwegian for it, and it said that "no matter how deep the problem was, the light would reach the cells that were low on energy". It also states that anyone could use it, that you couldn't treat anyone wrong, and that it had no side effects. The biolight apparatus in the article I linked to has eight programs according to the blog post, which do things like provide "extra energy", treat joint/muscle pains, give "light acupuncture", and remove, among lactic acid, other things. The wonders of modern technology.

As for the thermography, it's just what it sounds like, you get a colourful image in tones of red, orange, blue and green of your horse from a "very powerful" camera that catches "the tiniest detail". This is to be used to help you pick a good saddle for your horse, by determining the points of sensitivity and pressure on the horse's back. I'm sorry, but I can't see how an image of someone's horse in various colours denoting temperature can tell me anything of how I'm supposed to put a saddle him or her.

Homeopathy I'm not getting into, everyone on this forum know what it is already, and if you want to know more, you shuold PM someone actually in the medical field, such as Rolfe. Nor did I check out pressure point therapy, because by then I was so disillusioned that I just didn't want to know. Their proposed treatment of back problems with infa-red light did not impress me either.

The fact that people like this exists isn't new to me, charlatans exist in all parts of society, but the fact that my own school endorses these charlatans and even invites them to campus, giving them a market to sell their merchandise to gullible students, that's a whole other story. I litterally got angry when I first read the ad, and feel that no respectable horse institution should have anything to do with this kind of charlatans asking you to part with over a hundred dollars to have someone take a picture of your horse with an IR camera and mess around with some (probably) scam back/joint treatment.

I'm uncertain as to what to do with this situation. Part of me wants to drop a negative comment, but the other half anticipate that this will probably start a hostile discussion and not give much of a first-impression for me, so I'm considering writting an e-mail to the school instead, something to the nature of "Dear Fjordane folkehøgskule, I see you are planning to be visited by so-and-so, and that they are offering alternative treatments a, b and c. These are scams because x, y, and z, and I strongly recommend you do not allow your campus to be visited by this kind of scammers". Does this sound like a good idea -- if so, how exactly should I go about composing the e-mail so that it sounds convincing?

GodMark2 · 18th August 2010, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

As for the thermography, it's just what it sounds like, you get a colourful image in tones of red, orange, blue and green of your horse from a "very powerful" camera that catches "the tiniest detail". This is to be used to help you pick a good saddle for your horse, by determining the points of sensitivity and pressure on the horse's back. I'm sorry, but I can't see how an image of someone's horse in various colours denoting temperature can tell me anything of how I'm supposed to put a saddle him or her.

I can help a bit with this part, as it's likely I built the camera they're using (we've sold into a lot of veterinary clinics across Europe).

The application of thermography to choosing a saddle is pretty simple. Put the desired saddle on the horse and have it walk around a bit. Take the saddle off and take a picture. And spots where the saddle was too tight and rubbing will show up as hotter, as the horse's bloodflow to these areas will have increased. If there are well defined areas with significant heating, you need to choose a saddle with a differently shaped gullet. Spread out areas of heating suggest choosing different lining/panel. If the whole area looks evenly warm, it's a pretty good fit.

If they're trying to tell you it can do more than that, however (like if they take pictures without having tried a saddle for fit), they're likely shoveling horse-hockey.

Amapola · 18th August 2010, 04:07 PM

I don't know how it is in Norway... in the USA, a lot of vets have begun to offer this kind of "stuff" (no swearing!

) because their clients demand it. Some people won't go to a vet if they do not offer things like homeopathy for their horse, or reiki or what have you. I'm at the other end of the spectrum... but the trouble is, it can be hard to find a vet that does not offer at least *some* of this blatant nonsense. In order to get my horse treated, I might have to tolerate a vet that does that sort of thing, although I make it clear in a polite manner that I'm not going to do any of that to my horse.

There is a site called Skeptvet.com where a particular vet has articles about such things. You might show the school one or more of these articles and express your concern that this is not in the best interest of the horse, especially if the owner then does not go to an actual vet for real treatment. If your concern is for the animal most people will honor this, even if they think you're wrong. If in addition you have a few well-written articles to back you up, they may be even more likely to accept what you have to say even though they may not agree.

I think there are places in the world where treatment of horses is almost like witch craft and alas, one of those places is the USA, where certain treatments such as pin-firing are still allowed (although it's dieing out, thank goodness). It's tough for one person to fight it, but working at it a little at a time, perhaps there will be progress made. One can only hope!

I hope your school will listen to you, or at least accept that not everyone thinks using nonsense on a horse is a good idea.

ETA: just read reply #2 and yes, there are certain legitimate uses for some of the things you mentioned. The "biolight" was more what I was thinking of.

Safe-Keeper · 18th August 2010, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by GodMark2

I can help a bit with this part, as it's likely I built the camera they're using (we've sold into a lot of veterinary clinics across Europe).

The application of thermography to choosing a saddle is pretty simple. Put the desired saddle on the horse and have it walk around a bit. Take the saddle off and take a picture. And spots where the saddle was too tight and rubbing will show up as hotter, as the horse's bloodflow to these areas will have increased. If there are well defined areas with significant heating, you need to choose a saddle with a differently shaped gullet. Spread out areas of heating suggest choosing different lining/panel. If the whole area looks evenly warm, it's a pretty good fit.

If they're trying to tell you it can do more than that, however (like if they take pictures without having tried a saddle for fit), they're likely shoveling horse-hockey.

Highly interesting, thanks a lot. I sense bias if you really are a manufacturer/salesman (or even the inventor!) of this camera, but that's highly interesting either way. I would never have thought of that.

ectoplasm · 19th August 2010, 06:46 AM

What is a "folk high school" ?

Ririon · 19th August 2010, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by ectoplasm

What is a "folk high school" ?

Wikipedia is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_high_school

I was wondering myself if that was the correct English translation. It sounds like a typical wrong translation made by someone with another native language. The separate words are translated directly.

I would have called it something like "alternative college for the people". That may be slightly more descriptive. Or not.

(The thermography thing sounds plausible, though. I would not get all upset about that.)

Safe-Keeper · 19th August 2010, 08:32 AM

Slight derail continues, bear with me.

Quote:

I was wondering myself if that was the correct English translation.

Yeah, it sounds dubious to say the least, given that the Norwegian term is folkehøgskule (New Norwegian) or folkehøyskole (Book Language), and høyskole translates to college, not high school, so the "correct" direct translation would be folk college.

Either way, it's a folk high school is an institution where kids live for a year, taking courses in academic and non-academic fields including photography, climbing and skiing, circus, music, Bible study, kayaking, boat building, the list goes on. They don't do tests, grades or exams, and the goal of the year is not as much to learn but to grow as a person and get a kind of "free year" between high school and college/uni.

Usually when I refer to folk high schools, I include a link to WP. Should've done it this time, too.

18th August 2010, 03:36 PM	#1
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,109	My folk high school is promoting "woo", horses fall prey to scams Okay, so for those who haven't read my thread in the Forum Community, I'm enrolling in a folk high school. I'm taking the school's circus course, but it also have two courses (introductory or advanced) in the field of horses. Now, today when I logged onto Facebook, I saw a news update from the school that said people selling saddles would visit the school in September. All right, fair enough, but the ad the folk high school presented, complete with bad formatting and errors in spelling and grammar, boasted that they now also provide alternative therapies. Biolight. Pressure point therapy. Homeopathy. Their visit will be on the 10th and 11th of September, and interested students are told to sign up in advance to have their horses examined. The price for a thermography picture, treatment and saddle adjustment (don't know what the English term is) is 675 crowns, or close to a whooping 110 US dollars. First off I took a look at biolight. You can google it yourself, but it essentially entails shining a very expensive infared flashlight at the horse's body. I have no idea how they justify the "bio" prefix. Either way, I found a blog that had an ad/personal testimonial in Norwegian for it, and it said that "no matter how deep the problem was, the light would reach the cells that were low on energy". It also states that anyone could use it, that you couldn't treat anyone wrong, and that it had no side effects. The biolight apparatus in the article I linked to has eight programs according to the blog post, which do things like provide "extra energy", treat joint/muscle pains, give "light acupuncture", and remove, among lactic acid, other things. The wonders of modern technology. As for the thermography, it's just what it sounds like, you get a colourful image in tones of red, orange, blue and green of your horse from a "very powerful" camera that catches "the tiniest detail". This is to be used to help you pick a good saddle for your horse, by determining the points of sensitivity and pressure on the horse's back. I'm sorry, but I can't see how an image of someone's horse in various colours denoting temperature can tell me anything of how I'm supposed to put a saddle him or her. Homeopathy I'm not getting into, everyone on this forum know what it is already, and if you want to know more, you shuold PM someone actually in the medical field, such as Rolfe. Nor did I check out pressure point therapy, because by then I was so disillusioned that I just didn't want to know. Their proposed treatment of back problems with infa-red light did not impress me either. The fact that people like this exists isn't new to me, charlatans exist in all parts of society, but the fact that my own school endorses these charlatans and even invites them to campus, giving them a market to sell their merchandise to gullible students, that's a whole other story. I litterally got angry when I first read the ad, and feel that no respectable horse institution should have anything to do with this kind of charlatans asking you to part with over a hundred dollars to have someone take a picture of your horse with an IR camera and mess around with some (probably) scam back/joint treatment. I'm uncertain as to what to do with this situation. Part of me wants to drop a negative comment, but the other half anticipate that this will probably start a hostile discussion and not give much of a first-impression for me, so I'm considering writting an e-mail to the school instead, something to the nature of "Dear Fjordane folkehøgskule, I see you are planning to be visited by so-and-so, and that they are offering alternative treatments a, b and c. These are scams because x, y, and z, and I strongly recommend you do not allow your campus to be visited by this kind of scammers". Does this sound like a good idea -- if so, how exactly should I go about composing the e-mail so that it sounds convincing?

18th August 2010, 04:07 PM	#3
Amapola Pirate Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mora, New Mexico Posts: 8,260	I don't know how it is in Norway... in the USA, a lot of vets have begun to offer this kind of "stuff" (no swearing! ) because their clients demand it. Some people won't go to a vet if they do not offer things like homeopathy for their horse, or reiki or what have you. I'm at the other end of the spectrum... but the trouble is, it can be hard to find a vet that does not offer at least some of this blatant nonsense. In order to get my horse treated, I might have to tolerate a vet that does that sort of thing, although I make it clear in a polite manner that I'm not going to do any of that to my horse. There is a site called Skeptvet.com where a particular vet has articles about such things. You might show the school one or more of these articles and express your concern that this is not in the best interest of the horse, especially if the owner then does not go to an actual vet for real treatment. If your concern is for the animal most people will honor this, even if they think you're wrong. If in addition you have a few well-written articles to back you up, they may be even more likely to accept what you have to say even though they may not agree. I think there are places in the world where treatment of horses is almost like witch craft and alas, one of those places is the USA, where certain treatments such as pin-firing are still allowed (although it's dieing out, thank goodness). It's tough for one person to fight it, but working at it a little at a time, perhaps there will be progress made. One can only hope! I hope your school will listen to you, or at least accept that not everyone thinks using nonsense on a horse is a good idea. ETA: just read reply #2 and yes, there are certain legitimate uses for some of the things you mentioned. The "biolight" was more what I was thinking of.
	__________________ ignoring is art....not science pillory Last edited by Amapola; 18th August 2010 at 04:10 PM.

19th August 2010, 06:46 AM	#5
ectoplasm Thinker Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 213	What is a "folk high school" ?
ectoplasm Thinker Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 213

19th August 2010, 07:22 AM	#6
Ririon Cool cat Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 2,063	Originally Posted by ectoplasm What is a "folk high school" ? Wikipedia is your friend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_high_school I was wondering myself if that was the correct English translation. It sounds like a typical wrong translation made by someone with another native language. The separate words are translated directly. I would have called it something like "alternative college for the people". That may be slightly more descriptive. Or not. (The thermography thing sounds plausible, though. I would not get all upset about that.)
	__________________ Engineer by day, scientist by night.

18th August 2010, 03:54 PM	#2
GodMark2 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 1,042	Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper As for the thermography, it's just what it sounds like, you get a colourful image in tones of red, orange, blue and green of your horse from a "very powerful" camera that catches "the tiniest detail". This is to be used to help you pick a good saddle for your horse, by determining the points of sensitivity and pressure on the horse's back. I'm sorry, but I can't see how an image of someone's horse in various colours denoting temperature can tell me anything of how I'm supposed to put a saddle him or her. I can help a bit with this part, as it's likely I built the camera they're using (we've sold into a lot of veterinary clinics across Europe). The application of thermography to choosing a saddle is pretty simple. Put the desired saddle on the horse and have it walk around a bit. Take the saddle off and take a picture. And spots where the saddle was too tight and rubbing will show up as hotter, as the horse's bloodflow to these areas will have increased. If there are well defined areas with significant heating, you need to choose a saddle with a differently shaped gullet. Spread out areas of heating suggest choosing different lining/panel. If the whole area looks evenly warm, it's a pretty good fit. If they're trying to tell you it can do more than that, however (like if they take pictures without having tried a saddle for fit), they're likely shoveling horse-hockey.
	__________________ Knowing that we do not know, it does not necessarily follow that we can not know.

18th August 2010, 04:18 PM	#4
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,109	Originally Posted by GodMark2 I can help a bit with this part, as it's likely I built the camera they're using (we've sold into a lot of veterinary clinics across Europe). The application of thermography to choosing a saddle is pretty simple. Put the desired saddle on the horse and have it walk around a bit. Take the saddle off and take a picture. And spots where the saddle was too tight and rubbing will show up as hotter, as the horse's bloodflow to these areas will have increased. If there are well defined areas with significant heating, you need to choose a saddle with a differently shaped gullet. Spread out areas of heating suggest choosing different lining/panel. If the whole area looks evenly warm, it's a pretty good fit. If they're trying to tell you it can do more than that, however (like if they take pictures without having tried a saddle for fit), they're likely shoveling horse-hockey. Highly interesting, thanks a lot. I sense bias if you really are a manufacturer/salesman (or even the inventor!) of this camera, but that's highly interesting either way. I would never have thought of that.

19th August 2010, 08:32 AM	#7
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,109	Slight derail continues, bear with me. Quote: I was wondering myself if that was the correct English translation. Yeah, it sounds dubious to say the least, given that the Norwegian term is folkehøgskule (New Norwegian) or folkehøyskole (Book Language), and høyskole translates to college, not high school, so the "correct" direct translation would be folk college. Either way, it's a folk high school is an institution where kids live for a year, taking courses in academic and non-academic fields including photography, climbing and skiing, circus, music, Bible study, kayaking, boat building, the list goes on. They don't do tests, grades or exams, and the goal of the year is not as much to learn but to grow as a person and get a kind of "free year" between high school and college/uni. Usually when I refer to folk high schools, I include a link to WP. Should've done it this time, too.