Are you an evil influence?

Tricky · 24th August 2010, 08:44 AM

Have you skeptics of God ever been in the situation were you were accused of influencing others with your atheism? I know I've talked with a number of people about my beliefs, including some younger people, and I strongly suspect that some of the onlookers, like my sister, have told their kids, "Don't pay too much attention to Uncle Tricky. He's a sinner who will lead you to hell."

But if you were a teacher or other youth counsellor, you might find some irate parent giving you a rasher of... er... grief because of some ideas you had planted in Junior's mind. Or perhaps some pious health care worker might fault you for discussing your skepticism of the afterlife with a dying person. "You should be comforting them, you jerk," is what I can imagine my ultra-Christian brother saying, "Not scaring them!"

It hasn't happened to me yet, but I can imagine it might. What about you folks?

aggle-rithm · 24th August 2010, 08:58 AM

Parents: "Thanks for babysitting. Did you change him?"
Dogbert: "Probably."

TubbaBlubba · 24th August 2010, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

"You should be comforting them, you jerk," is what I can imagine my ultra-Christian brother saying, "Not scaring them!"

"Terminal heart failure, huh?"
"Y.. Yeah..."
"BOOO!"
*beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep*

RoboTimbo · 24th August 2010, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Have you skeptics of God ever been in the situation were you were accused of influencing others with your atheism?

Sadly, not as often as I would like.

Soapy Sam · 24th August 2010, 09:22 AM

Gosh, yes.
Several dozen suicides , a Satanist coven and at least one invasion of Poland.

You lot need to try harder.

Monketey Ghost · 24th August 2010, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Have you skeptics of God ever been in the situation were you were accused of influencing others with your atheism? I know I've talked with a number of people about my beliefs, including some younger people, and I strongly suspect that some of the onlookers, like my sister, have told their kids, "Don't pay too much attention to Uncle Tricky. He's a sinner who will lead you to hell."

But if you were a teacher or other youth counsellor, you might find some irate parent giving you a rasher of... er... grief because of some ideas you had planted in Junior's mind. Or perhaps some pious health care worker might fault you for discussing your skepticism of the afterlife with a dying person. "You should be comforting them, you jerk," is what I can imagine my ultra-Christian brother saying, "Not scaring them!"

It hasn't happened to me yet, but I can imagine it might. What about you folks?

I learned not to admit to being an atheist, in almost any situation... especially work. People just look at you like you declared war on the zombie invaders from another planet.

Once, once, I gave a brief explanation of my views to a patient whose mother came in toward the end of it... she was horrified, and I had to "touch bases" with management afterwards.

Piscivore · 24th August 2010, 09:31 AM

My daughter's Mormon boyfriend's mother thinks so, I'm sure. I don't know for certain, because she (and her husband) seem to lack the nerve to speak to me directly.

Monketey Ghost · 24th August 2010, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Piscivore

My daughter's Mormon boyfriend's mother thinks so, I'm sure. I don't know for certain, because she (and her husband) seem to lack the nerve to speak to me directly.

because no matter how you put it, no matter how carefully you word it, no matter how nice you are... you're still annoyingly correct... and the very fact that you don't agree with their religious beliefs is insulting to their views.

Lisa Simpson · 24th August 2010, 09:39 AM

Not with atheism, but with feminism. My brother-in-law, a paranoid control freak would come home and check the closets etc. for proof his wife was cheating. When I told her she didn't have to put up with that, I was declared a "bad influence" and told to stay away. Ultimately, he moved to a rural part of the country in order to isolate his wife.

Professor Yaffle · 24th August 2010, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Monkey Ghost

because no matter how you put it, no matter how carefully you word it, no matter how nice you are... you're still annoyingly correct... and the very fact that you don't agree with their religious beliefs is insulting to their views.

Just a reminder that not all believers are like that. I recently went to my cousin's wedding. She is catholic and very religious like lots of my family (and like I used to be). A couple of days before the wedding she was worrying that the hymns she had chosen for the service aren't very well known and that if nobody sang, it would be embarassing. So she spoke to me and my sister and asked if we would mind singing the hymns (we both knew them from when we were younger) loudly even though we don't believe in it all any more. She later thanked us and gave us a bottle of wine each saying that she really appreciated it. And all without trying to reconvert us.

Piscivore · 24th August 2010, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Monkey Ghost

because no matter how you put it, no matter how carefully you word it, no matter how nice you are... you're still annoyingly correct... and the very fact that you don't agree with their religious beliefs is insulting to their views.

In this specific case, I don't think that's what it is. From what I've heard from the kids- directly and indirectly- is that his parents have A Plan for the boy, and our family's disregard for the tenants (not just the religious ones, but our fundamentally different approaches to basic parenting, too) on which they've based most of The Plan is a temptation that endangers The Plan.

aggle-rithm · 24th August 2010, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle

Just a reminder that not all believers are like that. I recently went to my cousin's wedding. She is catholic and very religious like lots of my family (and like I used to be). A couple of days before the wedding she was worrying that the hymns she had chosen for the service aren't very well known and that if nobody sang, it would be embarassing. So she spoke to me and my sister and asked if we would mind singing the hymns (we both knew them from when we were younger) loudly even though we don't believe in it all any more.

That would immediately make you look very suspicious, because Catholics never sing hymns loudly, whether they know them or not.

dasmiller · 24th August 2010, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

That would immediately make you look very suspicious, because Catholics never sing hymns loudly, whether they know them or not.

Good point. And if you sang on-key, that would definitely be a give-away.

Wait, maybe that's Lutheran . . .

sadhatter · 24th August 2010, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle

Just a reminder that not all believers are like that. I recently went to my cousin's wedding. She is catholic and very religious like lots of my family (and like I used to be). A couple of days before the wedding she was worrying that the hymns she had chosen for the service aren't very well known and that if nobody sang, it would be embarassing. So she spoke to me and my sister and asked if we would mind singing the hymns (we both knew them from when we were younger) loudly even though we don't believe in it all any more. She later thanked us and gave us a bottle of wine each saying that she really appreciated it. And all without trying to reconvert us.

So, your cousin gets you to sing a religious song, then rewards you for it. How exactly was that showing your atheism? I have a feeling if you did refuse to sing the story may have went differently.

Of course she is being nice, you complied to her wishes , no one is saying all believers have to be jerks. She thanked you for doing something out of character. This does not necessarily indicate that should would thank you for doing something in character.

tourmaline · 24th August 2010, 01:35 PM

"Are you an evil influence?"

Since good and evil are a mater of opinion, it would depend on who you ask. All I know is that I have pissed-off some people directly or indirectly by discussing the flaws with religion and some of its followers.

C_Felix · 24th August 2010, 01:41 PM

If I wasn't an evil influence today, I didn't live up to my own expectations.

---
But, in all seriousness...

If I wasn't an evil influence today, I didn't live up to my own expectations.

---
Teachers shouldn't be jumping into the religion area too much.
A history of religion is okay...but, not attempting to poke holes in someone's belief(s).

gnome · 24th August 2010, 02:14 PM

This isn't religion-based but seems related.

I was raised in a reasonably strict household... I tended to think of most of my peers as having LESS restrictive parents.

In high school I learned it was all relative, though. I was put in a project group with a couple of girls who happened to be sisters. Really attractive, too... at first I felt shy and socially inferior. We were using some pop music in the presentation, and they told me their parents required them to avoid pop songs with any lyrics (instrumental only). We were able to get around the problem by cutting all the parts with words and just using the rest of the song. The song? The Fat Boys and Beach Boys: "Wipeout", with such subversive lyrics as:

Quote:

The sun went down and the night began
We was rapping for the people cold chillin' boppin'
We was partying hard making lots of noise
When around the corner came the real Beach Boys
So we all jumped up and started to shout
"Let's all sing the song called the 'Wipeout'"

I wondered if they'd ask me for a tape of other "forbidden" stuff, but they seemed intent on pleasing their parents and in fact never spoke to me again after the project.

Yeah that's me, the bad boy.

If they'd known I was atheist it probably would have been even worse.

gnome · 24th August 2010, 02:25 PM

One more story:

I turned someone from Christianity into Wiccan...
Only somewhat involved myself, it was during a spiritual exploration of my beliefs before I returned to atheism.

When I explained to an online friend that I was Wiccan, she expressed a good deal of concern for me (since she was Christian) but was open minded enough to ask for info. We lost contact for a while, and a few years later when we reconnected, it turned out she and her whole family had converted to Wicca, based partly on the info that I sent! Funny thing was I was kind of in the sunset of that period of my life. Now I'm back to atheism and she's been ordained and is now performing legal marriages (including gays)... I'm proud of her, but sometimes a bit startled at where my influence led.

Mashuna · 24th August 2010, 02:47 PM

I'm still waiting to get my copy of The God Delusion back from the vicar I lent it to. When he brings it back, I'll ask him if I was an evil influence.

Cainkane1 · 24th August 2010, 02:56 PM

I've lost friends after they found out I was an atheist. I have a facebook account and my now deceased bestfriends wife was a friend. When I was young I used to help my friend babysit her 4 year old sister. I bonded with this girl and I tried to keep in touch with her on facebook also. I made a post in support of evolution and I also posted a "atheist experience" video and they both not only took me off of their friends list they put me on ignore.

It makes me feel bad.

fossilhound · 24th August 2010, 03:10 PM

My in-laws are convinced I stole their daughter from christianity and made an atheist out of her. Actually our shared disgust with the church was one of the things that we had most in common, that made us a strong couple in the first place. They cannot believe that it was their own slavish ignorance and the pestilance of the roman catholic nuns who ruled her childhood that drove her out. I came from a fundamental protestant household, so of course I had to rebel (according to them... which is true) be she had been an obedient and passive daughter until she met me. They were denied baptisms and confirmations and a religious wedding for our daughter, but too bad. Now my grandson is being raised in an atheist household as well. Victory.

godless dave · 24th August 2010, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by C_Felix

Teachers shouldn't be jumping into the religion area too much.
A history of religion is okay...but, not attempting to poke holes in someone's belief(s).

Unfortunately, many believers will see a neutral lesson on the history of religion as an attempt to poke holes their beliefs.

Tumblehome · 24th August 2010, 05:06 PM

Religion is such a non-issue in my circle that I never get to ~~poke an accusing finger in anyone's chest~~ explain the facts of life.

ME: You see, there's no logical reason for the existence of God."

HE: 'Nother beer?

ME: But....yeah, sure.

Originally Posted by Piscivore

...our family's disregard for the tenants...

I can forgive your family for being godless heathen, but bad landlords?

Monketey Ghost · 25th August 2010, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle

Just a reminder that not all believers are like that. I recently went to my cousin's wedding. She is catholic and very religious like lots of my family (and like I used to be). A couple of days before the wedding she was worrying that the hymns she had chosen for the service aren't very well known and that if nobody sang, it would be embarassing. So she spoke to me and my sister and asked if we would mind singing the hymns (we both knew them from when we were younger) loudly even though we don't believe in it all any more. She later thanked us and gave us a bottle of wine each saying that she really appreciated it. And all without trying to reconvert us.

I didn't mean to spread that generalization over the whole piece of toast. My family and friends are believers and not obnoxious at all about it. Though my best friend believes in his heart that I'll go to hell for rejecting Christ.

Originally Posted by Piscivore

In this specific case, I don't think that's what it is. From what I've heard from the kids- directly and indirectly- is that his parents have A Plan for the boy, and our family's disregard for the tenants (not just the religious ones, but our fundamentally different approaches to basic parenting, too) on which they've based most of The Plan is a temptation that endangers The Plan.

Tenets, man, tenets.

Ah, temptation. Plans would be so perfect without 'em... also, anything that isn't the Plan. I have some fundie in-laws I know better than to talk freely with.

JimBenArm · 25th August 2010, 06:32 AM

Not to brag, but I do belong to this:

Piscivore · 25th August 2010, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Monkey Ghost

Tenets, man, tenets.

Originally Posted by JimBenArm

Not to brag, but I do belong to this:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...66bd37c003.bmp

Splitter. Bad Horse and the Evil League of Evil are the true villians.

CurtC · 25th August 2010, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson

When I told her she didn't have to put up with that, I was declared a "bad influence" and told to stay away.

Well that was pretty uppity of you.

ShadowSot · 25th August 2010, 11:46 AM

It's funny... the only time I've been told I'm a bad influence was when someone found out I was an atheist.
Previous to that, I'd always been regarded as a good influence.

Schrodinger's Cat · 25th August 2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

My in-laws are convinced I stole their daughter from christianity and made an atheist out of her. Actually our shared disgust with the church was one of the things that we had most in common, that made us a strong couple in the first place. They cannot believe that it was their own slavish ignorance and the pestilance of the roman catholic nuns who ruled her childhood that drove her out. I came from a fundamental protestant household, so of course I had to rebel (according to them... which is true) be she had been an obedient and passive daughter until she met me. They were denied baptisms and confirmations and a religious wedding for our daughter, but too bad. Now my grandson is being raised in an atheist household as well. Victory.

Something very similar happened to me. I'm not an atheist, but I'm also not religious anymore. My husband comes from an extremely conservative Christian family. Now he's on the conservative side himself, but NOTHING like what his family is. He is from the rural south and then moved with me to Boston.

Up until he'd moved in with me, he'd lived with his parents. Living at home, it was easier to keep the peace by not really talk about his actual opinions on things. So his parents were under the impression that he thought just like him. When he was out of their house, he started being more (though not completely) honest about his beliefs. Of course his family thought that meant that his evil Yankee secular wife had brainwashed him. They actually threatened to disown him and told him he had turned his back on everything he'd ever believed in, and hardly spoke with him for months.

They just couldn't accept the fact that he NEVER believed that stuff to begin with, and that if he had ever really been like them, he and I would never have gotten together in the first place.

In his case though, it wasn't just the religious aspect of things, it was the political side of things too. When they realized my husband wasn't Rush Limbaugh Jr, they just couldn't deal with it.

godless dave · 25th August 2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

They just couldn't accept the fact that he NEVER believed that stuff to begin with

I think controlling parents often have trouble understanding that their children have different values, desires, and opinions than they do.

Schrodinger's Cat · 25th August 2010, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by godless dave

I think controlling parents often have trouble understanding that their children have different values, desires, and opinions than they do.

I think it's because that's the entire reason they're controlling in the first place. They WANT their kids to be exactly like them. It's what they put most of their parenting effort into. So when their kids don't grow up into little clones, it's pretty much like their entire two decades of effort completely failed. It's got to be pretty disheartening to go through so much effort to shelter and control your kid and then not even get the expected result.

epeos76 · 25th August 2010, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by sadhatter

So, your cousin gets you to sing a religious song, then rewards you for it. How exactly was that showing your atheism? I have a feeling if you did refuse to sing the story may have went differently.

Of course she is being nice, you complied to her wishes , no one is saying all believers have to be jerks. She thanked you for doing something out of character. This does not necessarily indicate that should would thank you for doing something in character.

Take a deep breath, man. Nothing in Prof.'s post, "necessarily indicates" that her counsin was being insincere, or wouldn't have respected a decision not to sing. On contrary, it sounds like the entire exhange was predicated on thoughtful respect by all parties involved.

Marduk · 25th August 2010, 03:52 PM

Mbwahahahaha

fossilhound · 25th August 2010, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat

In his case though, it wasn't just the religious aspect of things, it was the political side of things too. When they realized my husband wasn't Rush Limbaugh Jr, they just couldn't deal with it.

The politics thing happened to us exactly. My In-laws, the very religious ones, get all of their news from Rush. My wife and I are politically left of center. We're celebrating our 35th anniversary next month, so our atheist marriage is stronger than a lot of those that claimed to have faith at their core.

Piscivore · 25th August 2010, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat

I think it's because that's the entire reason they're controlling in the first place. They WANT their kids to be exactly like them. It's what they put most of their parenting effort into. So when their kids don't grow up into little clones, it's pretty much like their entire two decades of effort completely failed. It's got to be pretty disheartening to go through so much effort to shelter and control your kid and then not even get the expected result.

Contrariwise, I put most of my effort into making sure mine didn't turn out like me.

Ladewig · 25th August 2010, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson

Not with atheism, but with feminism. My brother-in-law, a paranoid control freak would come home and check the closets etc. for proof his wife was cheating. When I told her she didn't have to put up with that, I was declared a "bad influence" and told to stay away. Ultimately, he moved to a rural part of the country in order to isolate his wife.

I guess I am kind of slow - what exactly was he looking for in the closets?

Piscivore · 25th August 2010, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

I guess I am kind of slow - what exactly was he looking for in the closets?

Other dudes. That's where they hide in cheesy movies and paranoid fantasies.

Mashuna · 26th August 2010, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by ShadowSot

It's funny... the only time I've been told I'm a bad influence was when someone found out I was an atheist.
Previous to that, I'd always been regarded as a good influence.

It makes sense. If you were good, and a Christian, you'd be promoting Christianity by your actions. If you're good, and an atheist, you're promoting atheism by your actions, thus luring people away from Christianity towards a fulfilling atheist life.

The only way to be a good influence as an atheist is to be evil, thus pushing people towards theism.

Or something.

Cainkane1 · 26th August 2010, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by Piscivore

My daughter's Mormon boyfriend's mother thinks so, I'm sure. I don't know for certain, because she (and her husband) seem to lack the nerve to speak to me directly.

I have a Mormon friend whose very educated and articulate. His arguments with other sects of xcianity can be marathon.

One of the few people he doesn't care to argue with is me however. The fundys attack his religion specifically whereas I attack religion in general and I quote my dear departed mentor Captain Jack Fink.

Captain Fink said. "Why pick on the Mormons?" I was born a jew and I don't believe Moses walked up to a burning but unconsumed bush and spoke to God who scratched the ten commandments out of a rock and then gave them to him".

I attack Genesis which the Mormons say was actually a positive happening with gusto. using a small amount of science and common sense I destroy all of his arguments.

Ron_Tomkins · 26th August 2010, 07:59 AM

I only tell girls I'm a bad influence, as a mechanism to appear more badass and attractive to them.

24th August 2010, 08:44 AM	#1
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,359	Are you an evil influence? Have you skeptics of God ever been in the situation were you were accused of influencing others with your atheism? I know I've talked with a number of people about my beliefs, including some younger people, and I strongly suspect that some of the onlookers, like my sister, have told their kids, "Don't pay too much attention to Uncle Tricky. He's a sinner who will lead you to hell." But if you were a teacher or other youth counsellor, you might find some irate parent giving you a rasher of... er... grief because of some ideas you had planted in Junior's mind. Or perhaps some pious health care worker might fault you for discussing your skepticism of the afterlife with a dying person. "You should be comforting them, you jerk," is what I can imagine my ultra-Christian brother saying, "Not scaring them!" It hasn't happened to me yet, but I can imagine it might. What about you folks?

24th August 2010, 08:58 AM	#2
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	Parents: "Thanks for babysitting. Did you change him?" Dogbert: "Probably."
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

24th August 2010, 09:00 AM	#3
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,409	Originally Posted by Tricky "You should be comforting them, you jerk," is what I can imagine my ultra-Christian brother saying, "Not scaring them!" "Terminal heart failure, huh?" "Y.. Yeah..." "BOOO!" beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

24th August 2010, 09:22 AM	#5
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Gosh, yes. Several dozen suicides , a Satanist coven and at least one invasion of Poland. You lot need to try harder.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

24th August 2010, 09:25 AM	#6
Monketey Ghost Body of Work Join Date: May 2003 Location: I'm on your screen! Posts: 14,808	Originally Posted by Tricky Have you skeptics of God ever been in the situation were you were accused of influencing others with your atheism? I know I've talked with a number of people about my beliefs, including some younger people, and I strongly suspect that some of the onlookers, like my sister, have told their kids, "Don't pay too much attention to Uncle Tricky. He's a sinner who will lead you to hell." But if you were a teacher or other youth counsellor, you might find some irate parent giving you a rasher of... er... grief because of some ideas you had planted in Junior's mind. Or perhaps some pious health care worker might fault you for discussing your skepticism of the afterlife with a dying person. "You should be comforting them, you jerk," is what I can imagine my ultra-Christian brother saying, "Not scaring them!" It hasn't happened to me yet, but I can imagine it might. What about you folks? I learned not to admit to being an atheist, in almost any situation... especially work. People just look at you like you declared war on the zombie invaders from another planet. Once, once, I gave a brief explanation of my views to a patient whose mother came in toward the end of it... she was horrified, and I had to "touch bases" with management afterwards.
	__________________ _{The membership of this forum is henceforth to refer to me as potato-headed Bobby} _{SSKCAS, member in long standing}

24th August 2010, 09:10 AM	#4
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,860	Originally Posted by Tricky Have you skeptics of God ever been in the situation were you were accused of influencing others with your atheism? Sadly, not as often as I would like.

24th August 2010, 09:31 AM	#7
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home is wherever I'm with you Posts: 26,459	My daughter's Mormon boyfriend's mother thinks so, I'm sure. I don't know for certain, because she (and her husband) seem to lack the nerve to speak to me directly.
	__________________ It's always been Wankershim. "...untrustworthy obnoxious twerp." - CFLarsen

24th August 2010, 09:36 AM	#8
Monketey Ghost Body of Work Join Date: May 2003 Location: I'm on your screen! Posts: 14,808	Originally Posted by Piscivore My daughter's Mormon boyfriend's mother thinks so, I'm sure. I don't know for certain, because she (and her husband) seem to lack the nerve to speak to me directly. because no matter how you put it, no matter how carefully you word it, no matter how nice you are... you're still annoyingly correct... and the very fact that you don't agree with their religious beliefs is insulting to their views.
	__________________ _{The membership of this forum is henceforth to refer to me as potato-headed Bobby} _{SSKCAS, member in long standing}

24th August 2010, 09:39 AM	#9
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,057	Not with atheism, but with feminism. My brother-in-law, a paranoid control freak would come home and check the closets etc. for proof his wife was cheating. When I told her she didn't have to put up with that, I was declared a "bad influence" and told to stay away. Ultimately, he moved to a rural part of the country in order to isolate his wife.
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

24th August 2010, 09:51 AM	#10
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 15,341	Originally Posted by Monkey Ghost because no matter how you put it, no matter how carefully you word it, no matter how nice you are... you're still annoyingly correct... and the very fact that you don't agree with their religious beliefs is insulting to their views. Just a reminder that not all believers are like that. I recently went to my cousin's wedding. She is catholic and very religious like lots of my family (and like I used to be). A couple of days before the wedding she was worrying that the hymns she had chosen for the service aren't very well known and that if nobody sang, it would be embarassing. So she spoke to me and my sister and asked if we would mind singing the hymns (we both knew them from when we were younger) loudly even though we don't believe in it all any more. She later thanked us and gave us a bottle of wine each saying that she really appreciated it. And all without trying to reconvert us.
	__________________ I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that. My blog "Well I think I've made it abundantly clear in this thread I have no idea what I'm talking about..." - truethat Last edited by Professor Yaffle; 24th August 2010 at 09:52 AM.

24th August 2010, 10:21 AM	#11
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home is wherever I'm with you Posts: 26,459	Originally Posted by Monkey Ghost because no matter how you put it, no matter how carefully you word it, no matter how nice you are... you're still annoyingly correct... and the very fact that you don't agree with their religious beliefs is insulting to their views. In this specific case, I don't think that's what it is. From what I've heard from the kids- directly and indirectly- is that his parents have A Plan for the boy, and our family's disregard for the tenants (not just the religious ones, but our fundamentally different approaches to basic parenting, too) on which they've based most of The Plan is a temptation that endangers The Plan.
	__________________ It's always been Wankershim. "...untrustworthy obnoxious twerp." - CFLarsen

24th August 2010, 10:49 AM	#12
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle Just a reminder that not all believers are like that. I recently went to my cousin's wedding. She is catholic and very religious like lots of my family (and like I used to be). A couple of days before the wedding she was worrying that the hymns she had chosen for the service aren't very well known and that if nobody sang, it would be embarassing. So she spoke to me and my sister and asked if we would mind singing the hymns (we both knew them from when we were younger) loudly even though we don't believe in it all any more. That would immediately make you look very suspicious, because Catholics never sing hymns loudly, whether they know them or not.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

24th August 2010, 10:53 AM	#13
dasmiller Just the right amount of cowbell Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon Posts: 3,463	Originally Posted by aggle-rithm That would immediately make you look very suspicious, because Catholics never sing hymns loudly, whether they know them or not. Good point. And if you sang on-key, that would definitely be a give-away. Wait, maybe that's Lutheran . . .
	__________________ "In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt

24th August 2010, 12:49 PM	#14
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743	Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle Just a reminder that not all believers are like that. I recently went to my cousin's wedding. She is catholic and very religious like lots of my family (and like I used to be). A couple of days before the wedding she was worrying that the hymns she had chosen for the service aren't very well known and that if nobody sang, it would be embarassing. So she spoke to me and my sister and asked if we would mind singing the hymns (we both knew them from when we were younger) loudly even though we don't believe in it all any more. She later thanked us and gave us a bottle of wine each saying that she really appreciated it. And all without trying to reconvert us. So, your cousin gets you to sing a religious song, then rewards you for it. How exactly was that showing your atheism? I have a feeling if you did refuse to sing the story may have went differently. Of course she is being nice, you complied to her wishes , no one is saying all believers have to be jerks. She thanked you for doing something out of character. This does not necessarily indicate that should would thank you for doing something in character.
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743

24th August 2010, 01:35 PM	#15
tourmaline Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 349	"Are you an evil influence?" Since good and evil are a mater of opinion, it would depend on who you ask. All I know is that I have pissed-off some people directly or indirectly by discussing the flaws with religion and some of its followers.
	__________________ "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." -- Carl Sagan "Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober" -- Winston Churchill

24th August 2010, 01:41 PM	#16
C_Felix Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Right outside Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,041	If I wasn't an evil influence today, I didn't live up to my own expectations. --- But, in all seriousness... If I wasn't an evil influence today, I didn't live up to my own expectations. --- Teachers shouldn't be jumping into the religion area too much. A history of religion is okay...but, not attempting to poke holes in someone's belief(s).

24th August 2010, 02:14 PM	#17
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	This isn't religion-based but seems related. I was raised in a reasonably strict household... I tended to think of most of my peers as having LESS restrictive parents. In high school I learned it was all relative, though. I was put in a project group with a couple of girls who happened to be sisters. Really attractive, too... at first I felt shy and socially inferior. We were using some pop music in the presentation, and they told me their parents required them to avoid pop songs with any lyrics (instrumental only). We were able to get around the problem by cutting all the parts with words and just using the rest of the song. The song? The Fat Boys and Beach Boys: "Wipeout", with such subversive lyrics as: Quote: The sun went down and the night began We was rapping for the people cold chillin' boppin' We was partying hard making lots of noise When around the corner came the real Beach Boys So we all jumped up and started to shout "Let's all sing the song called the 'Wipeout'" I wondered if they'd ask me for a tape of other "forbidden" stuff, but they seemed intent on pleasing their parents and in fact never spoke to me again after the project. Yeah that's me, the bad boy. If they'd known I was atheist it probably would have been even worse.
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	__________________ Last edited by gnome; 24th August 2010 at 02:20 PM.

24th August 2010, 02:25 PM	#18
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	One more story: I turned someone from Christianity into Wiccan... Only somewhat involved myself, it was during a spiritual exploration of my beliefs before I returned to atheism. When I explained to an online friend that I was Wiccan, she expressed a good deal of concern for me (since she was Christian) but was open minded enough to ask for info. We lost contact for a while, and a few years later when we reconnected, it turned out she and her whole family had converted to Wicca, based partly on the info that I sent! Funny thing was I was kind of in the sunset of that period of my life. Now I'm back to atheism and she's been ordained and is now performing legal marriages (including gays)... I'm proud of her, but sometimes a bit startled at where my influence led.
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	__________________

24th August 2010, 02:47 PM	#19
Mashuna Ovis ex Machina Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Welsh Wales Posts: 6,579	I'm still waiting to get my copy of The God Delusion back from the vicar I lent it to. When he brings it back, I'll ask him if I was an evil influence.
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24th August 2010, 02:56 PM	#20
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,193	I've lost friends after they found out I was an atheist. I have a facebook account and my now deceased bestfriends wife was a friend. When I was young I used to help my friend babysit her 4 year old sister. I bonded with this girl and I tried to keep in touch with her on facebook also. I made a post in support of evolution and I also posted a "atheist experience" video and they both not only took me off of their friends list they put me on ignore. It makes me feel bad.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

24th August 2010, 03:10 PM	#21
fossilhound Thinker Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Whittier, CA, USA Posts: 174	My in-laws are convinced I stole their daughter from christianity and made an atheist out of her. Actually our shared disgust with the church was one of the things that we had most in common, that made us a strong couple in the first place. They cannot believe that it was their own slavish ignorance and the pestilance of the roman catholic nuns who ruled her childhood that drove her out. I came from a fundamental protestant household, so of course I had to rebel (according to them... which is true) be she had been an obedient and passive daughter until she met me. They were denied baptisms and confirmations and a religious wedding for our daughter, but too bad. Now my grandson is being raised in an atheist household as well. Victory.
	__________________ "If thou rememberest not the slightest folly love hath made thee run into, thou hast not lov'd." Wm. Shakespeare

24th August 2010, 03:32 PM	#22
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,126	Originally Posted by C_Felix Teachers shouldn't be jumping into the religion area too much. A history of religion is okay...but, not attempting to poke holes in someone's belief(s). Unfortunately, many believers will see a neutral lesson on the history of religion as an attempt to poke holes their beliefs.
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

24th August 2010, 05:06 PM	#23
Tumblehome Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Beside the point Posts: 1,445	Religion is such a non-issue in my circle that I never get to ~~poke an accusing finger in anyone's chest~~ explain the facts of life. ME: You see, there's no logical reason for the existence of God." HE: 'Nother beer? ME: But....yeah, sure. Originally Posted by Piscivore ...our family's disregard for the tenants... I can forgive your family for being godless heathen, but bad landlords?

25th August 2010, 06:28 AM	#24
Monketey Ghost Body of Work Join Date: May 2003 Location: I'm on your screen! Posts: 14,808	Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle Just a reminder that not all believers are like that. I recently went to my cousin's wedding. She is catholic and very religious like lots of my family (and like I used to be). A couple of days before the wedding she was worrying that the hymns she had chosen for the service aren't very well known and that if nobody sang, it would be embarassing. So she spoke to me and my sister and asked if we would mind singing the hymns (we both knew them from when we were younger) loudly even though we don't believe in it all any more. She later thanked us and gave us a bottle of wine each saying that she really appreciated it. And all without trying to reconvert us. I didn't mean to spread that generalization over the whole piece of toast. My family and friends are believers and not obnoxious at all about it. Though my best friend believes in his heart that I'll go to hell for rejecting Christ. Originally Posted by Piscivore In this specific case, I don't think that's what it is. From what I've heard from the kids- directly and indirectly- is that his parents have A Plan for the boy, and our family's disregard for the tenants (not just the religious ones, but our fundamentally different approaches to basic parenting, too) on which they've based most of The Plan is a temptation that endangers The Plan. Tenets, man, tenets. Ah, temptation. Plans would be so perfect without 'em... also, anything that isn't the Plan. I have some fundie in-laws I know better than to talk freely with.
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25th August 2010, 06:32 AM	#25
JimBenArm Based on a true story! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 12,975	Not to brag, but I do belong to this:
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25th August 2010, 09:51 AM	#26
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home is wherever I'm with you Posts: 26,459	Originally Posted by Monkey Ghost Tenets, man, tenets. Originally Posted by JimBenArm Not to brag, but I do belong to this: http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...66bd37c003.bmp Splitter. Bad Horse and the Evil League of Evil are the true villians.
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25th August 2010, 11:42 AM	#27
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,758	Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson When I told her she didn't have to put up with that, I was declared a "bad influence" and told to stay away. Well that was pretty uppity of you.
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25th August 2010, 11:46 AM	#28
ShadowSot Muse Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pensacola Posts: 771	It's funny... the only time I've been told I'm a bad influence was when someone found out I was an atheist. Previous to that, I'd always been regarded as a good influence.
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25th August 2010, 12:24 PM	#29
Schrodinger's Cat Guest Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,499	Quote: My in-laws are convinced I stole their daughter from christianity and made an atheist out of her. Actually our shared disgust with the church was one of the things that we had most in common, that made us a strong couple in the first place. They cannot believe that it was their own slavish ignorance and the pestilance of the roman catholic nuns who ruled her childhood that drove her out. I came from a fundamental protestant household, so of course I had to rebel (according to them... which is true) be she had been an obedient and passive daughter until she met me. They were denied baptisms and confirmations and a religious wedding for our daughter, but too bad. Now my grandson is being raised in an atheist household as well. Victory. Something very similar happened to me. I'm not an atheist, but I'm also not religious anymore. My husband comes from an extremely conservative Christian family. Now he's on the conservative side himself, but NOTHING like what his family is. He is from the rural south and then moved with me to Boston. Up until he'd moved in with me, he'd lived with his parents. Living at home, it was easier to keep the peace by not really talk about his actual opinions on things. So his parents were under the impression that he thought just like him. When he was out of their house, he started being more (though not completely) honest about his beliefs. Of course his family thought that meant that his evil Yankee secular wife had brainwashed him. They actually threatened to disown him and told him he had turned his back on everything he'd ever believed in, and hardly spoke with him for months. They just couldn't accept the fact that he NEVER believed that stuff to begin with, and that if he had ever really been like them, he and I would never have gotten together in the first place. In his case though, it wasn't just the religious aspect of things, it was the political side of things too. When they realized my husband wasn't Rush Limbaugh Jr, they just couldn't deal with it.
Schrodinger's Cat Guest Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,499	Last edited by Schrodinger's Cat; 25th August 2010 at 12:25 PM.

25th August 2010, 01:35 PM	#30
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,126	Quote: They just couldn't accept the fact that he NEVER believed that stuff to begin with I think controlling parents often have trouble understanding that their children have different values, desires, and opinions than they do.
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

25th August 2010, 02:32 PM	#31
Schrodinger's Cat Guest Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,499	Originally Posted by godless dave I think controlling parents often have trouble understanding that their children have different values, desires, and opinions than they do. I think it's because that's the entire reason they're controlling in the first place. They WANT their kids to be exactly like them. It's what they put most of their parenting effort into. So when their kids don't grow up into little clones, it's pretty much like their entire two decades of effort completely failed. It's got to be pretty disheartening to go through so much effort to shelter and control your kid and then not even get the expected result.
Schrodinger's Cat Guest Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,499

25th August 2010, 02:34 PM	#32
epeos76 Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 300	Originally Posted by sadhatter So, your cousin gets you to sing a religious song, then rewards you for it. How exactly was that showing your atheism? I have a feeling if you did refuse to sing the story may have went differently. Of course she is being nice, you complied to her wishes , no one is saying all believers have to be jerks. She thanked you for doing something out of character. This does not necessarily indicate that should would thank you for doing something in character. Take a deep breath, man. Nothing in Prof.'s post, "necessarily indicates" that her counsin was being insincere, or wouldn't have respected a decision not to sing. On contrary, it sounds like the entire exhange was predicated on thoughtful respect by all parties involved.
epeos76 Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 300

25th August 2010, 03:52 PM	#33
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Mbwahahahaha

25th August 2010, 04:18 PM	#34
fossilhound Thinker Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Whittier, CA, USA Posts: 174	Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat In his case though, it wasn't just the religious aspect of things, it was the political side of things too. When they realized my husband wasn't Rush Limbaugh Jr, they just couldn't deal with it. The politics thing happened to us exactly. My In-laws, the very religious ones, get all of their news from Rush. My wife and I are politically left of center. We're celebrating our 35th anniversary next month, so our atheist marriage is stronger than a lot of those that claimed to have faith at their core.
	__________________ "If thou rememberest not the slightest folly love hath made thee run into, thou hast not lov'd." Wm. Shakespeare

25th August 2010, 04:32 PM	#35
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home is wherever I'm with you Posts: 26,459	Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat I think it's because that's the entire reason they're controlling in the first place. They WANT their kids to be exactly like them. It's what they put most of their parenting effort into. So when their kids don't grow up into little clones, it's pretty much like their entire two decades of effort completely failed. It's got to be pretty disheartening to go through so much effort to shelter and control your kid and then not even get the expected result. Contrariwise, I put most of my effort into making sure mine didn't turn out like me.
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