Uses of the Language that Hack Me Off

[Skeptic]

...the "Golden Bull" award, which takes aim at companies that confuse consumers with hard-to-read user manuals studded with "gobbledygook."

...which, of course, really means "oral sex with an oriental".

(Rim shot)

[sorgoth]

Overuse of latin terms.

Please, please just say what you're talking about instead of finding the most obscure term you know and using it.

[LucyR]

Quote:

Originally posted by sorgoth
Overuse of latin terms.

Please, please just say what you're talking about instead of finding the most obscure term you know and using it.

But people who know Latin are almost by definition better educated and more intelligent than those who don't. As such, they have a right to make the lives of the common man that much harder.

Quad Erat Non Demonstrandum

[chmara]

Hmmm - so let's be reductionist about the language. Therefore sexual intercourse becomes ----. Sadness becomes depression.
Happiness cannot be differentiated from joy and big brother wins.

Language that really hacks me off is when the same repetitious non descriptive (or emotionaly stultifying) thoughtless words/phrases are used to cover all the variations of a situation. It puts me in a placed of knowing less than when I started.

Ergo -- can anyone use English to give the true Greek definition of Agape including its emotional depth of male bonding? I have seen some Christian groups recently to try and say it is the pure love of Christ -- and/or his church. Boy that really diffuses the deeper meaning in emotion this word really has...and I think if fundamentalists ever found out that part of agape is now considered pedophilia.....wow would they distance themselves from it.

Whatever you may think of Anthony Robbins -- new age business coach and focus guru with LOTS of infomercials -- he has done some interesting things that really apply to the real world of language (and not of the "neurolinguistics stripe either.)

Now about the statistical figures I am about to quote I got these from him several years ago -- after he had his staff do a study on the subject of language shadings and word usage.

They surveyed a "normal group" of Americans. These "normal" people had about thirty total words to describe their emotions --- limiting them in spectrum of feelings expressed. The sad/depressed usage was one of the more interesting interchanges of meaning that may have profound effect on mood and Zoloft sales.

In part two of the informal study -- the staff was turned loose on the Webster's New World unabridged dictionary. Some 3,000 words decribing emotion and its shadings were listed. Most of these expanded or narrowed the understanding of the emotion to be expressed to a specific range.

When is the last time you heard someone say they were Blue -- instead of sad. Elated instead of "like up," good, or OK. How often do people use depressed instead of sad -- completely leaving out the duration of feeling and time factors built into those words.

OK, I agree bureaucrats really do not have emotions. That's why obfuscation gets almost as deep as that used by insurance company contracts -- and civilian Pentagon people writing budgets for stuff that is not popular.

BTW -- since that Robbins study, I became very aware of people asking "How are you?"

Instead of the expected -- "Fine" --- I usually stop them with my answer"

"Strange."

GC

[Nasarius]

Quote:

Originally posted by chmara
BTW -- since that study, I became very aware of people asking "How are you."

Instead of the expected -- "Fine" --- I usually stop them with my answer"

"Strange."

GC

I'm sure we could have a whole thread on idiocies of American culture

The only things that really annoy me are the random apostrophes, turning 've into of, and misuse of the word whom. Oh, and "ek cetera". *shudder*
Learning another language is often the best way to better understand your own, because you're forced to think about subjects versus direct/indirect objects, etc.

By the way, it's soda, not pop, damn it.

[chmara]

Ahh -- you've forgotten how to order a"phosphate" at the "Drug Store fountain."

GC -- one who knows the real meaning of "For two cents plain."

[Sloe_Bohemian]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nasarius


I'm sure we could have a whole thread on idiocies of American culture

The only things that really annoy me are the random apostrophes, turning 've into of, and misuse of the word whom. Oh, and "ek cetera". *shudder*
Learning another language is often the best way to better understand your own, because you're forced to think about subjects versus direct/indirect objects, etc.

By the way, it's soda, not pop, damn it.

OH NO You Di`int!!!!

Pop is so very much the word used in a variety of dictionaries:
Open-Dictionary says Pop is a noun for soft drink
Dictionary.com says Pop is a noun for soft drink

And the good people of the Swot's Corner have this to say:
"Since the earliest research into the the English Language as spoken in North America was begun by Noah Webster in the early 18th century, the regional variations in dialect have always been the most challenging and difficult to explain field. Since the development of carbonated beverage in 1886, one of linguistic geography's most important and least investigated phenomena has been the sharp regional divisions in the use of the terms "pop" and "soda." Due to the domination of hard-line conservative lingusitic geographers in such leading institutions such as Harvard, Yale, Stanford and the University of the West Indies, this dilemma has been swept under the rug . . . until now. Using the new technologies of the Internet and the World Wide Web, I and my colleagues at the California Institute of Technology and Lewis & Clark College are undertaking a bold new research into this fascinating area.

CONCLUSION: People who say 'Pop' are much, much cooler. "



But of course, the definitive answers are provided by the Pop versus Soda website.
And they even have cool little maps... better than the example I'm attempting to attach here, I assure you.



So I hope I've been able to help you get over your compulsion to abuse the proper term for soft drinks...

*An aside, here is an An American English to British English dictionary… in case anyone’s looking… and it lists pop
AmerEnglish to... well... English

Besides, don't you New Englanders call it 'Tonic' anyway?
(New York = New England… {insert 'new' before a region of the UK to refer to someplace on the East Coast} it's all the same to me.)

[varwoche]

When did Yoda-like sentence construction come into vogue?

Amuses moreso than hacks-off, it does.

[gnome]

Quote:

Originally posted by varwoche
When did Yoda-like sentence construction come into vogue?

Amuses moreso than hacks-off, it does.

Probably around the time "The Empire Strikes Back" came out.

[Nasarius]

Quote:

So I hope I've been able to help you get over your compulsion to abuse the proper term for soft drinks...

It's still soda
You see, the NYC area and California are the only civilized parts of the nation.

[Sloe_Bohemian]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nasarius


It's still soda
You see, the NYC area and California are the only civilized parts of the nation.
I crashed my van into Jesus!

OK, I know when to quit... as long as I don't catch you ordering drinks around these parts after sundown...

And I have to admit, it's a clear mistake for me to post on a thread dedicated to personally irritating linguistic faux pas when I too sometimes with the irritants often making am... (apologies to Varwoche and Gnome). But I think that for young people, this Yoda style of speech has been greatly influenced by the TV screen dialogue of Joss Whedon, who started writing for Rosanne and hit his stride with Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

But it's Nasarius' sig that got me to pipe up again. I saw SAVED last night and it was great! A little too understanding and gentle with the Fundie characters... but still more than irreverent enough to keep me in stitches.

[smahon]

Most of the time I can ignore language abusage. However, this morning I have had to listen to "Plug that out for me, will you?" and "Has all the data been inputted yet?".
Breathe deeply...
Resist the urge to strangle...

[gjones2]

Just as with English, words in Greek can have more than one meaning. Here are the meanings listed in Lidell/Scott for the verbal form (agapaô) and for the noun itself (agapê).

Quote:

Originally posted by chmara
I have seen some Christian groups recently to try and say it is the pure love of Christ -- and/or his church.

I agree that the word doesn't have to have that meaning. If fact, even in New Testament Greek it's used in several other ways. I wouldn't go so far as to say that part of agape is now considered pedophilia, though, not if you mean that pedophilia was necessarily part of the implication of the concept itself. It appears that the word was routinely used in both classical Greek and koine with other meanings.

One of Plato's dialogues includes a discussion of love in its various forms. If I recall correctly, in that dialogue Aristophanes takes the view that homosexual love is superior. I wonder which Greek words are used for love there. Chances are the Greek text is on the Perseus site if anybody wants to check.

[TragicMonkey]

For the soda versus pop controversy, nothing infuriates the soft drink executives like the distinctly southern US take on the matter...

"Do you want a Coke with that?"
"Yes, please."
"What kind? Pepsi, Seven-Up, ginger ale, or root beer?"

I grew up understanding that "coke" is a generic term for any carbonated beverage. If you want the specific drink, you have to ask for "Co-Cola". And it will probably come with peanuts in it.


While that southernism can be quaint and amusing, this one drives me into an incoherent frenzy of rage--the misplaced emphasis. It's in-SUR-ance, not IN-sur-ance. And it's IN-flu-ence, not in-FLU-ence.

[Sloe_Bohemian]

Welcome TragicMonkey!

Your first post and you're in here to vent. You'll fit right in.


back to topic-
My grandmother use to ask me about my "paper ruet". (pronounced like the root of a tree)

I think I stopped delivering newspapers just so I wouldn't have to hear that phrase ever again.

[gjones2]

Quote:

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
"Do you want a Coke with that?"

I don't recall what I said when I was very young. I might have said 'Coke', though if I had other drinks around, I believe I'd have probably just said 'drink' ("What kind of drink do you want with that?").

I definitely wouldn't have said 'soda' or 'pop'. 'Pop' I didn't use for drinks, and 'soda' was a mostly solid ice cream concoction that was served at drugstores (where you could also get one of those oldtimey milkshakes, served with part of it in a glass and the rest in the metal container used to shake it).

I've heard of people putting peanuts in Cokes, but I don't believe I've ever tried it.

[Z]

Feminist-speak. Like the use of 'Wommon', 'Womb-ONe', or 'Womyn'.

I leave it to you guys to figure out why that REALLY annoys me.

[Rat]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sloe_Bohemian
Welcome TragicMonkey!

Your first post and you're in here to vent. You'll fit right in.


back to topic-
My grandmother use to ask me about my "paper ruet". (pronounced like the root of a tree)

I think I stopped delivering newspapers just so I wouldn't have to hear that phrase ever again.

No, route is pronounced like root. You Americans have it all wrong. If you pronounce it 'rowt', how do you tell in speech between a router (a tool used in woodworking) and a router (that directs data)?

Probably the same way we do in print, now I think about it.

Cheers,
Rat.

[richardm]

Quote:

Originally posted by ratcomp1974
If you pronounce it 'rowt', how do you tell in speech between a router (a tool used in woodworking) and a router (that directs data)?

That may go some way to explaining why our US office has so many network problems

[michaellee]

Not yet mentioned is the incorrect spelling by otherwise literate people, of a word they probably hear frequently: LOSE. As in "I just have to LOOSE some weight."

How can an adult, even if only semi-literate, not yet know of or has not yet read, one time, the word LOSE? WTF!!!! LOOSE instead of LOSE?

When listening to a person I've just met, if words similar to "I SEEN the Giants game yesterday", are spoken, two impulses suddenly take on life and death urgency. The first is to seek innoculation with any drug that causes instant deafness. Lacking that, the other is to respond "Oh yah, did they win or LOOSE?

[Rat]

Quote:

Originally posted by michaellee
Not yet mentioned is the incorrect spelling by otherwise literate people, of a word they probably hear frequently: LOSE. As in "I just have to LOOSE some weight."

How can an adult, even if only semi-literate, not yet know of or has not yet read, one time, the word LOSE? WTF!!!! LOOSE instead of LOSE?

When listening to a person I've just met, if words similar to "I SEEN the Giants game yesterday", are spoken, two impulses suddenly take on life and death urgency. The first is to seek innoculation with any drug that causes instant deafness. Lacking that, the other is to respond "Oh yah, did they win or LOOSE?

Oh, but posting in a thread about uses of language is always going to be just asking for it. How about 'How can an adult, even if..., not yet know of, or not yet have read...'? Or 'not yet know of, nor yet read'.



Cheers,
Rat.

[Tenubracon]

Quote:

The main reason I hate this is because usually the only people who use the word 'ongoing' are tossers of the highest order. But really, why use an awkword contraction when there's a perfectly good verb all ready to use?

It's not a verb here, it's an adjective.

[UserGoogol]

Quote:

Originally posted by zakur
I can't stand it when people use the phrase "nuke it" to mean "cook it in a microwave." Do people think microwave ovens cook food through nuclear fission?

No, the analogy is that both microwave ovens and nook-yoo-lar bombs produce radiation.

I think "less" applies to all numbers. 2 is less than 3, after all.

As for the cows's problem, I blindly base it on pronunciation. If cow-zez sounds good, I go with cows's. If it doesn't, I go with cows. Cow-zez doesn't sound good.

Quotation marks aren't "just" used for quoting people. They also used for "sarcasm" or presenting a string "literal" of any kind. Like, type "dir \*.vbs /a /s" at the "command" prompt.

Quote:

When did Yoda-like sentence construction come into vogue?

The unique grammatical nature of English, to see, it to us allows. Also, new grammar to appreciate, it to us lets. Overboard going, I am, I admit. But cool it is, I say.

I think Japanese puts verbs at the end of sentences, and it's a well known fact that Japan is awesome. Also, if Japanese can take our vocabulary, English should take their grammar.

[Art Vandelay]

Quote:

Originally posted by UserGoogol
No, the analogy is that both microwave ovens and nook-yoo-lar bombs produce radiation.

And AFAIK, nuclear bombs were the first source of artificial micorwave radiation.

A math peeve: people who use phrases like "three times smaller". Which is it: is it tripled, or is it smaller?

[Z]

Wouldn't that more properly be phrased, "three times as small"? Or, "One third the size"?

[Techwomyn]

At the risk of hacking-off zaayrdragon with my username...

Breath/breathe.

"It was so hot she couldn't breath."

"Breath, little one! Breath!" (found on a childbirth site)

Oddly, I don't think I've ever seen "breathe" used in place of "breath" though.

[Z]

Aaaagghh! Aaarrrggh!!! hackhackcoughcoughspew...

Ugh.

Welcome to JREF, womYn... I hope you BURN IN FLAMES ETERNAL!!!

Er, well, no I really don't...



Seriously, welcome - Diverse opinions make for entertaining debate!

[Techwomyn]

I'm roasting as I speak, er, type.

Thanks for the welcome.

ETA: And its so hot here I can't hardly breath.

[Z]

Quote:

And its so hot here I can't hardly breath.

Uuuruuruurrrrggghghghththkekekkkkkktttthhhhppppttt tt.....
**zaayrdragon** dies of asphyxiation...

[Lars Blitzer]

Okay, too many things hack me off to no end as far as mangling language could be listed in the time I have. However, I'll try a couple of the worst offenders. First, the word "irregardless." I've hearing this a lot, more so since a couple of my friends have found out it irritates me. I have the irresistable urge to correct it every time I hear it. Second, I hate, no, correct that, I loathe "chat speak." I don't mind the occasional contraction or acronym, but it has really gone over board in recent years. I'm talking about "LOL", "OMG", "WTF", and using "teh" instead of "the." Things like that. I am guilty of "pebcak", "rtfm", and "ID10T error," but mostly just for humourous effect. Okay, okay, so I'm a hypocritical language-nazi. At least I'm honest.

[Pragmatist]

How about, "Advanced notice of road closure". WTF is ADVANCED about it? I presume a SIMPLE notice would have consisted of a huge block of concrete in the road!

And what about "leveraging your options" which seems to keep cropping up in recent technical sales literature. I know where I'd like to apply a lever!

Oh well, sel la vie!

[gnome]

Quote:

Originally posted by Pragmatist
And what about "leveraging your options" which seems to keep cropping up in recent technical sales literature. I know where I'd like to apply a lever!

Business use of the term "leverage" has spread... its original meaning referred to using a loan to finiance an investment. It can have a multiplying affect on rate-of-return, because in the end you're only investing interest payments, which are a fraction of the actual capital you are using. Hence the term "leverage".

As far as "leverage" in other aspects, I suppose it is a metaphor for applying effort where you will get the maximum results. But it winds up just sort of being "thrown in" without analyzing whether what you're applying the metaphorical lever to actually has any ability to multiply the return.

Some of mine:

I hate "leverage" as a verb - why cant you just lever something?

As much as misplaced apostrophes I get very annoyed with people who cannot distinguish singular from plural as in criterion / criteria, phenomenon / phenomena

A daily bugbear in my job is the use of the word "methodology" when the word "method" would do just as well reserving "methodology" for the study of methods.

But the worst and most ubiquitous of all is...

...people using the expression "that begs the question" when they mean "that prompts the question". If you don't know what the expression really means, look here

[billydkid]

Far be it for me to complain about much of anything is as much as I am only marginally literate mah own sef. I do, however, despise the continual transforming of nouns into a verbs and verbs into nouns. Someone winning the gold in Athens has "medaled". What are our key "asks" here? Maybe we can "leverage" this situation to our advantage. What are the "takeaways" here? Of course, the list in endless.

The use of the wacko derivative of incentive - "incent" makes me want to puke. Example - We should do such and such to "incent" our staff to be more productive. Nails on a chalk board.

How about the term "infostructure" which I read somewhere recently. Oh my god in heaven. Of course, the business world and academia are both crawling with language mutilators. Frankly, I do not even bother to read the crap that gets send out from upper management any longer. I believe "business speak" represents deliberate obfuscation. It is morally equivalent to lying.

[epepke]

Quote:

Originally posted by billydkid
Someone winning the gold in Athens has "medaled".

Of course, the most medaled becomes the winningest. Or maybe the medaldedingalongadingdongest, maximumestwise.

[LandR]

Incorrect use of himself, myself, yourself by people talking on telephones trying to sound intelligent / posh.

e.g:

"If you call back tomorrow, you will speak to myself"
"There was a meeting with Alice, Bob and myself"

This morning I heard:

"I need to give you some new contact details for himself"

Someone here in the office keeps doing it, I keep picking them up on it and telling them to stop. They keep doing it anyway.

They only ever do it on the phone too, when they are putting on their posh 'phone voice'. Which is another absurdity that bugs me, posh phone voices.

I just don't understand why they think adding -self to words make them sound intelligent.

[calebprime]

Originally Posted by Morwen

Mr. Manifesto, I don't know if you did this on purpose, but... That word you created, "awkword", to denote a clumsy or ill-conceived use of the language, is a gem. I love it. I intend to start using it from now on. And it can be a verb, and a noun too!

Dear Morwen,

You wrote this perhaps eight years ago, but I must oppose you. I really dislike made-up words, neologisms, portmanteau words. They are usually as ugly as any chimeric* Frankenstein monster, but lack the monster's grandeur.

They are gross like pink slime, cheap like plywood.

Sure, I'm only half-literate. Sure, Shakespeare made up words. Sure, I'm a somewhat elitist parasite. What's your point?

[Bikewer]

I admit I'm fairly forgiving of "usage" and I confess to many of the sins listed in the OP.

If you can decipher the internet-speak, mispellings, and horrid usage that shows up on many forums, you can get along with anything.
Besides, dreadful mis-usage tends to become acceptable. For instance... Irregardless. For years, just.... Wrong. Should be "regardless". However, currently "acceptable" in several dictionaries. Go figure.
I read "The Story Of English" a few years ago, and it's obviously an accretive language, constantly adding new forms and dropping unused ones.
In an office I worked at 30 years ago, they had a reprint of a dictionary that had originally been published in the late 1800s.
It was full of all sorts of wonderful terms for things that no longer existed, or perhaps only known to historians. Terms for various kinds of "tack" for instance; stuff associated with horses, carriages, harnesses, and the like. In as much use back then as are words like "IT", "hard-drive", "air-bag", and "virtual reality" now.

[anglolawyer]

OK, how about 'lockdown'? Wtf does it mean? Its very American and must be spoken with an American accent. It usually happens when some random nutter starts wandering around a US university or mall shooting people, whereupon everything 'goes into lockdown'.

British english - 'the area has been sealed/cordoned off'
American english 'we've gone into lockdown'

And here speaks no anti-American. Oh no. What about 'seccertary' 'guvverment' and 'perleece' all British abominations. Yuk.

[LandR]

Originally Posted by anglolawyer

'perleece'

What is this one supposed to be ?

Please or police ?