C-Span tv: University of Texas Panel Discussion on 9/11 and Aviation

BigAl · 12th September 2010, 09:57 AM

University of Texas Panel Discussion on 9/11 and Aviation

Pilots and air controllers responsible for clearing U.S. airspace in the hours following the 9/11 attacks gather at the University of Texas at Dallas Saturday to share their behind-the-scenes experiences and explain how their decisions helped to mitigate loss of life through the day’s chaos. (2 hrs 50 min)

http://c-span.com/Watch/Media/2010/0...+Aviation.aspx

T.A.M. · 12th September 2010, 11:11 AM

funny how Captain Bob is not there...no mention of him or his insane theories.

TAM

BigAl · 12th September 2010, 11:13 AM

The Q&A session is very good.

LashL · 12th September 2010, 04:02 PM

Just watching now. How cool that CheapShot is on the panel! Excellent.

Cheap Shot · 13th September 2010, 02:41 AM

I had a great time, it was interesting, of course I have worked with Ben Sliney before, it was good to see him again. I had not mean't Dan Creedon before. I had run into one of the other pilots before at a Range Council meeting before. At the 15 minute break point I needed some water and when I went outside the auditorium three individuals came up to me, one with a camera and they kept trying to put words in my mouth, one continuing to ask me I knew more than I say, which I responded with, no I don't, and the other asking me twenty questions before I could respond. It was kind of agitating, but I kept my cool, told them to write me an e-mail, and I would respond to thier questions. Some 15 minute break, anyway I found the symposium interesting, and I thought it went fairly well. Thanks for those who watched it. I guess now you can put a picture with the words.

KDLarsen · 13th September 2010, 04:03 AM

I've only seen the first 45 minutes, but so far it has been highly informative. It was also nice to put a face on a JREF poster - and I loved the story of the (almost) deserted control building, and the 6 (I think) military planes that had been left behind and were talking to an empty control room

ScottyMate · 13th September 2010, 06:40 AM

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for the link. It's always interesting to hear these individual perspectives behind the events. There were some very powerful, and at times humorous accounts

Please forgive my ignorance, but who was CheapShot on the panel?

ElMondoHummus · 13th September 2010, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Cheap Shot

... At the 15 minute break point I needed some water and when I went outside the auditorium three individuals came up to me, one with a camera and they kept trying to put words in my mouth, one continuing to ask me I knew more than I say, which I responded with, no I don't, and the other asking me twenty questions before I could respond. It was kind of agitating, but I kept my cool, told them to write me an e-mail, and I would respond to thier questions. Some 15 minute break...

Oh, really?

Huh... I wonder if someone should post pictures of Craig, Aldo, and Capt. Bob and see if any of them resemble who Cheap Shot here saw. Then again, it could simply be just a local group of truther nutters.

DGM · 13th September 2010, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by ScottyMate

Please forgive my ignorance, but who was CheapShot on the panel?

Collin from Boston center.

I didn't intend to watch to whole show but found myself unable to turn it off. Now I have to read Lynn's book.

Walter Ego · 13th September 2010, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by BigAl

University of Texas Panel Discussion on 9/11 and Aviation

Pilots and air controllers responsible for clearing U.S. airspace in the hours following the 9/11 attacks gather at the University of Texas at Dallas Saturday to share their behind-the-scenes experiences and explain how their decisions helped to mitigate loss of life through the day’s chaos. (2 hrs 50 min)

http://c-span.com/Watch/Media/2010/0...+Aviation.aspx

Not embeddable, however.

I'll confess my main reason for reading this forum nowadays it to find good videos for my blog.

Walter Ego · 13th September 2010, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cheap Shot

I had a great time, it was interesting, of course I have worked with Ben Sliney before, it was good to see him again. I had not mean't Dan Creedon before. I had run into one of the other pilots before at a Range Council meeting before. At the 15 minute break point I needed some water and when I went outside the auditorium three individuals came up to me, one with a camera and they kept trying to put words in my mouth, one continuing to ask me I knew more than I say, which I responded with, no I don't, and the other asking me twenty questions before I could respond. It was kind of agitating, but I kept my cool, told them to write me an e-mail, and I would respond to thier questions. Some 15 minute break, anyway I found the symposium interesting, and I thought it went fairly well. Thanks for those who watched it. I guess now you can put a picture with the words.

Ah, if you don't mind telling us, exactly which panel member were you? I didn't see anyone identified as "Cheap Shot."

Great to see Ben Sliney again who played himself in the theatrical movie United 93 (9/11/01 was his first day on the job as an FAA National Operation Manager).

Another video (embeddable) about the traffic controllers was an NBC Dateline show hosted by Tom Brokaw which aired on the first anniversary of 9/11.

http://911vids.blogspot.com/2008/03/...rs-of-911.html

fess · 13th September 2010, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

Another video (embeddable) about the traffic controllers was an NBC Dateline show hosted by Tom Brokaw which aired on the first anniversary of 9/11.

http://911vids.blogspot.com/2008/03/...rs-of-911.html

Thank you Walter, I hadn't seen that before. Sure answered a lot of questions. I , and probably others, have spoken to controllers in a different manner since 9/11. I don't know, maybe with more respect. This video may explain the reason why.

patchbunny · 14th September 2010, 08:55 AM

In the CSPAN video, fighter pilot Lt Col Joe McGrady remarked, in answer to the question "why didn't you talk to the pilots over the radio," remarked that his fighters only had UHF frequency radios, and civilian aircraft used VHF, preventing communication. Why the difference, and which is better?

Reheat · 14th September 2010, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by patchbunny

In the CSPAN video, fighter pilot Lt Col Joe McGrady remarked, in answer to the question "why didn't you talk to the pilots over the radio," remarked that his fighters only had UHF frequency radios, and civilian aircraft used VHF, preventing communication. Why the difference, and which is better?

Since WWII the military (USAF and Navy) have used primarily UHF while the Civilian Community have used VHF. Both are line of sight, so I don't think one is superior to the other.

Actually, the F-15's have UHF only while the F-16's have both UHF/VHF and some also FM. That's because some F-16's are tasked for Close Air Support and F-15's are not tasked for that role. Also, Transport/Cargo/Tankers have both. It's only some fighters and trainers who have UHF only.

It sometimes makes Commercial Captains nervous to hear a controller talking to someone while they can not hear the other aircraft and they inquire about who the controller is talking to. While some ATC facilities have the capability to allow both frequency spectrums to be heard by everyone, all of them don't have that capability.

I suspect the original reason for the difference was to keep the military conversations proprietary and it has continued. The military has a lot of $$ invested in UHF anti-jamming technology, so I don't think a change is imminent.

UHF radios can pickup VHF Guard frequency because 243.0 UHF is the first harmonic of VHF 121.5, but I don't think the reverse is true.

Cheap Shot · 14th September 2010, 06:35 PM

The F-15's now have a li,ited VHF capability on 121.5 doesn't work for than a couple miles though, maybe it is what you said about the wave length.

Cheap Shot · 14th September 2010, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

Ah, if you don't mind telling us, exactly which panel member were you? I didn't see anyone identified as "Cheap Shot."

Great to see Ben Sliney again who played himself in the theatrical movie United 93 (9/11/01 was his first day on the job as an FAA National Operation Manager).

I was the rather ;arge man on the right, I worked with Ben on UAL93 as well, though my part which was playing myself just as Ben did, hit the edit room floor. I did do a fair amount of work on the film, so my credit ends up at the end as an ATC Consultant.

jammonius · 16th September 2010, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by BigAl

University of Texas Panel Discussion on 9/11 and Aviation

Pilots and air controllers responsible for clearing U.S. airspace in the hours following the 9/11 attacks gather at the University of Texas at Dallas Saturday to share their behind-the-scenes experiences and explain how their decisions helped to mitigate loss of life through the day’s chaos. (2 hrs 50 min)

http://c-span.com/Watch/Media/2010/0...+Aviation.aspx

BigAl,

The "ALL43" thread was closed by a mod just as I was starting to turn attention to Lynn Spencer's book, Touching History as it relates to Flight 175. Too bad.

I see, however, that you've got this thread going that deals with a recent airing by C-Span of a panel discussion hosted by University of Texas at Dallas that features Lynn Spencer and some of the air traffic controllers she interviewed for her book.

I think it's a good idea to place where Lynn Spencer is coming from in proper perspective as we proceed. Here's one of the first things she said:

That is unfortunate. Her book does a lot to call into question whether what was seen on teevee was true or not. However, she, herself, does not have that perspective, irrespective of all of the contradictions, conundrums and inconsistencies that she, herself, reveals.

OK, BigAl, I'm prepared to engage on this topic if others are interested in doing so. The video is a long one and the book needs to be read in order to have a meaningful discussion.

I would imagine this thread will develop slowly, but I think it might end up being a worthwhile endeavor.

Thanks for starting the thread.

12th September 2010, 09:57 AM	#1
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,398	C-Span tv: University of Texas Panel Discussion on 9/11 and Aviation University of Texas Panel Discussion on 9/11 and Aviation Pilots and air controllers responsible for clearing U.S. airspace in the hours following the 9/11 attacks gather at the University of Texas at Dallas Saturday to share their behind-the-scenes experiences and explain how their decisions helped to mitigate loss of life through the day’s chaos. (2 hrs 50 min) http://c-span.com/Watch/Media/2010/0...+Aviation.aspx
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,398	__________________ ------ Eric Pode of Croydon Chief Assistant to the Assistance Chief, Dept of Redundancy Dept.

12th September 2010, 11:13 AM	#3
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,398	The Q&A session is very good.
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,398	__________________ ------ Eric Pode of Croydon Chief Assistant to the Assistance Chief, Dept of Redundancy Dept.

13th September 2010, 02:41 AM	#5
Cheap Shot Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 378	I had a great time, it was interesting, of course I have worked with Ben Sliney before, it was good to see him again. I had not mean't Dan Creedon before. I had run into one of the other pilots before at a Range Council meeting before. At the 15 minute break point I needed some water and when I went outside the auditorium three individuals came up to me, one with a camera and they kept trying to put words in my mouth, one continuing to ask me I knew more than I say, which I responded with, no I don't, and the other asking me twenty questions before I could respond. It was kind of agitating, but I kept my cool, told them to write me an e-mail, and I would respond to thier questions. Some 15 minute break, anyway I found the symposium interesting, and I thought it went fairly well. Thanks for those who watched it. I guess now you can put a picture with the words.
	__________________ 'Two things are infinite: The Universe and Human Stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.' - Albert Einstein

13th September 2010, 06:40 AM	#7
ScottyMate Scholar Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Scotland Posts: 73	Absolutely fascinating, thank you for the link. It's always interesting to hear these individual perspectives behind the events. There were some very powerful, and at times humorous accounts Please forgive my ignorance, but who was CheapShot on the panel?
	Last edited by ScottyMate; 13th September 2010 at 06:43 AM.

13th September 2010, 07:49 AM	#8
ElMondoHummus 0.25 short of being half-witted Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole Posts: 11,943	Originally Posted by Cheap Shot ... At the 15 minute break point I needed some water and when I went outside the auditorium three individuals came up to me, one with a camera and they kept trying to put words in my mouth, one continuing to ask me I knew more than I say, which I responded with, no I don't, and the other asking me twenty questions before I could respond. It was kind of agitating, but I kept my cool, told them to write me an e-mail, and I would respond to thier questions. Some 15 minute break... Oh, really? Huh... I wonder if someone should post pictures of Craig, Aldo, and Capt. Bob and see if any of them resemble who Cheap Shot here saw. Then again, it could simply be just a local group of truther nutters.
	__________________ must take this very carefully....booze is wise men's drink..... -pillory "... I'm quite willing to have everyone use my rejection of the 9/11 conspiracy theory as a basis for assessing my intelligence, judgment, and trustworthiness" -Prof. Ann Althouse

12th September 2010, 11:11 AM	#2
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	funny how Captain Bob is not there...no mention of him or his insane theories. TAM

12th September 2010, 04:02 PM	#4
LashL Goddess of Legaltainment™ Administrator Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 26,269	Just watching now. How cool that CheapShot is on the panel! Excellent.

13th September 2010, 04:03 AM	#6
KDLarsen Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lord's Posts: 1,946	I've only seen the first 45 minutes, but so far it has been highly informative. It was also nice to put a face on a JREF poster - and I loved the story of the (almost) deserted control building, and the 6 (I think) military planes that had been left behind and were talking to an empty control room

13th September 2010, 09:47 AM	#9
DGM #4 Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 14,350	Originally Posted by ScottyMate Please forgive my ignorance, but who was CheapShot on the panel? Collin from Boston center. I didn't intend to watch to whole show but found myself unable to turn it off. Now I have to read Lynn's book.
	__________________ Join the team, Show us what your machine can do (or just contribute to a good cause)Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

13th September 2010, 11:01 AM	#10
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by BigAl University of Texas Panel Discussion on 9/11 and Aviation Pilots and air controllers responsible for clearing U.S. airspace in the hours following the 9/11 attacks gather at the University of Texas at Dallas Saturday to share their behind-the-scenes experiences and explain how their decisions helped to mitigate loss of life through the day’s chaos. (2 hrs 50 min) http://c-span.com/Watch/Media/2010/0...+Aviation.aspx Not embeddable, however. I'll confess my main reason for reading this forum nowadays it to find good videos for my blog.

13th September 2010, 01:54 PM	#11
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by Cheap Shot I had a great time, it was interesting, of course I have worked with Ben Sliney before, it was good to see him again. I had not mean't Dan Creedon before. I had run into one of the other pilots before at a Range Council meeting before. At the 15 minute break point I needed some water and when I went outside the auditorium three individuals came up to me, one with a camera and they kept trying to put words in my mouth, one continuing to ask me I knew more than I say, which I responded with, no I don't, and the other asking me twenty questions before I could respond. It was kind of agitating, but I kept my cool, told them to write me an e-mail, and I would respond to thier questions. Some 15 minute break, anyway I found the symposium interesting, and I thought it went fairly well. Thanks for those who watched it. I guess now you can put a picture with the words. Ah, if you don't mind telling us, exactly which panel member were you? I didn't see anyone identified as "Cheap Shot." Great to see Ben Sliney again who played himself in the theatrical movie United 93 (9/11/01 was his first day on the job as an FAA National Operation Manager). Another video (embeddable) about the traffic controllers was an NBC Dateline show hosted by Tom Brokaw which aired on the first anniversary of 9/11. http://911vids.blogspot.com/2008/03/...rs-of-911.html

13th September 2010, 05:43 PM	#12
fess Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Hiding in the sticks. Posts: 1,043	Originally Posted by Walter Ego Another video (embeddable) about the traffic controllers was an NBC Dateline show hosted by Tom Brokaw which aired on the first anniversary of 9/11. http://911vids.blogspot.com/2008/03/...rs-of-911.html Thank you Walter, I hadn't seen that before. Sure answered a lot of questions. I , and probably others, have spoken to controllers in a different manner since 9/11. I don't know, maybe with more respect. This video may explain the reason why.
	__________________ My boss told me to stop procrastinating. I think I will… tomorrow. Last edited by fess; 13th September 2010 at 06:21 PM. Reason: Content

14th September 2010, 08:55 AM	#13
patchbunny Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2004 Location: Right about... here. Posts: 1,553	In the CSPAN video, fighter pilot Lt Col Joe McGrady remarked, in answer to the question "why didn't you talk to the pilots over the radio," remarked that his fighters only had UHF frequency radios, and civilian aircraft used VHF, preventing communication. Why the difference, and which is better?
	__________________ "So, they laugh at my boner, will they? I'll show them! I'll show them how many boners the Joker can make!" -- The Joker, Batman #66

14th September 2010, 09:23 AM	#14
Reheat Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: In Space Posts: 2,039	Originally Posted by patchbunny In the CSPAN video, fighter pilot Lt Col Joe McGrady remarked, in answer to the question "why didn't you talk to the pilots over the radio," remarked that his fighters only had UHF frequency radios, and civilian aircraft used VHF, preventing communication. Why the difference, and which is better? Since WWII the military (USAF and Navy) have used primarily UHF while the Civilian Community have used VHF. Both are line of sight, so I don't think one is superior to the other. Actually, the F-15's have UHF only while the F-16's have both UHF/VHF and some also FM. That's because some F-16's are tasked for Close Air Support and F-15's are not tasked for that role. Also, Transport/Cargo/Tankers have both. It's only some fighters and trainers who have UHF only. It sometimes makes Commercial Captains nervous to hear a controller talking to someone while they can not hear the other aircraft and they inquire about who the controller is talking to. While some ATC facilities have the capability to allow both frequency spectrums to be heard by everyone, all of them don't have that capability. I suspect the original reason for the difference was to keep the military conversations proprietary and it has continued. The military has a lot of $$ invested in UHF anti-jamming technology, so I don't think a change is imminent. UHF radios can pickup VHF Guard frequency because 243.0 UHF is the first harmonic of VHF 121.5, but I don't think the reverse is true.
	__________________ Debunking the North of Citgo Theory

14th September 2010, 06:35 PM	#15
Cheap Shot Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 378	The F-15's now have a li,ited VHF capability on 121.5 doesn't work for than a couple miles though, maybe it is what you said about the wave length.
	__________________ 'Two things are infinite: The Universe and Human Stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.' - Albert Einstein

14th September 2010, 06:38 PM	#16
Cheap Shot Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 378	Originally Posted by Walter Ego Ah, if you don't mind telling us, exactly which panel member were you? I didn't see anyone identified as "Cheap Shot." Great to see Ben Sliney again who played himself in the theatrical movie United 93 (9/11/01 was his first day on the job as an FAA National Operation Manager). I was the rather ;arge man on the right, I worked with Ben on UAL93 as well, though my part which was playing myself just as Ben did, hit the edit room floor. I did do a fair amount of work on the film, so my credit ends up at the end as an ATC Consultant.
	__________________ 'Two things are infinite: The Universe and Human Stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.' - Albert Einstein

16th September 2010, 03:09 PM	#17
jammonius Master Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,674	Originally Posted by BigAl University of Texas Panel Discussion on 9/11 and Aviation Pilots and air controllers responsible for clearing U.S. airspace in the hours following the 9/11 attacks gather at the University of Texas at Dallas Saturday to share their behind-the-scenes experiences and explain how their decisions helped to mitigate loss of life through the day’s chaos. (2 hrs 50 min) http://c-span.com/Watch/Media/2010/0...+Aviation.aspx BigAl, The "ALL43" thread was closed by a mod just as I was starting to turn attention to Lynn Spencer's book, Touching History as it relates to Flight 175. Too bad. I see, however, that you've got this thread going that deals with a recent airing by C-Span of a panel discussion hosted by University of Texas at Dallas that features Lynn Spencer and some of the air traffic controllers she interviewed for her book. I think it's a good idea to place where Lynn Spencer is coming from in proper perspective as we proceed. Here's one of the first things she said: That is unfortunate. Her book does a lot to call into question whether what was seen on teevee was true or not. However, she, herself, does not have that perspective, irrespective of all of the contradictions, conundrums and inconsistencies that she, herself, reveals. OK, BigAl, I'm prepared to engage on this topic if others are interested in doing so. The video is a long one and the book needs to be read in order to have a meaningful discussion. I would imagine this thread will develop slowly, but I think it might end up being a worthwhile endeavor. Thanks for starting the thread.
jammonius Master Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,674