God Kills 6 More People

WildCat · 19th September 2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Members of a small Bronx church decimated by a tragic highway accident gathered Sunday to mourn their bishop and friends - but did not question their loss.

"We know God never makes mistakes," said Jay Goving of the Bronx, a close friend of Bishop Simon White.

White, 55, his wife, Zelda, 52, and four others were killed when their church van blew a tire on the New York State Thruway on Saturday and flipped several times. Eight other parishioners aboard survived but were hospitalized.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...doesnt_ma.html

Who can stop this bloodthirsty killer?

Sledge · 19th September 2010, 09:02 PM

Doctor Hannibal Lecktor: Did you really feel depressed after you shot Mr. Garrett Jacob Hobbes to death? l think you probably did. But it wasn't the act that got to you. Didn't you feel so bad, because killing him felt so good? And why shouldn't it feel good? lt must feel good to God. He does it all the time. God's terrific! He dropped a church roof on 34 of his worshippers in Texas last Wednesday night, just as they were groveling through a hymn to his majesty. Don't you think that felt good?

Will Graham: Why does it feel good, Dr. Lecktor?

Doctor Hannibal Lecktor: lt feels good because God has power. lf one does what God does enough times, one will become as God is. God's a champ. He always stays ahead. He got 140 Phillipinos in one plane crash last year. Remember that earthquake in ltaly last spring?

Slimething · 19th September 2010, 10:26 PM

As long as he targets people who worship him, I'm safe.

welshdean · 20th September 2010, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...doesnt_ma.html

Who can stop this bloodthirsty killer?

John Boyd Dunlop

maddog · 20th September 2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

"We know God never makes mistakes," said Jay Goving of the Bronx, a close friend of Bishop Simon White.

How do they "know" ?

And even if they're right, God may not make mistakes, but whoever checked the tires of that van sure did!

Beerina · 20th September 2010, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...doesnt_ma.html

Who can stop this bloodthirsty killer?

He's just bringing them home.

"Killing" is bad based on the assumption there is no god, or there is, but if you kill someone, you might be killing them when they were not in a state of grace.

God has neither such problem, of course. Clearly, He knows He exists, so the first isn't an issue. And secondly, He knows if each person is in a state of grace or not. At worst, if they're not, then God is merely an Ass.

Puppycow · 20th September 2010, 09:54 PM

The thing to remember is that it's all part of a plan.
There, now don't you feel better?

HansMustermann · 21st September 2010, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

The thing to remember is that it's all part of a plan.
There, now don't you feel better?

But he'll also gladly change that plan because some nobody in the mid-west asked real nice, right?

TimCallahan · 21st September 2010, 10:43 AM

The whole "God never makes mistakes" mindset is also applied not only to tragic accidents (since "accidents" can't happen if God is in charge) but as well to genetic disorders such as Down's syndrome, Tay-Sachs and multiple sclerosis. One of the more bizarre explanations of why God would allowed this is "for his glory." So God afflicted your infant with a horrible, painful disease that will kill the child in a few years "for his glory"?

Psi Baba · 21st September 2010, 11:53 AM

By human standards, this God is insane. It's why the devout have to do headstands trying explain its bizarre behavior. It makes one think that HP Lovecraft's gods weren't so different from the gods of human cultures. There really is no hope for benevolence; the best one can hope for is indifference.

GrandMasterFox · 21st September 2010, 04:56 PM

I never got this idea.

Doesn't this mean we can't ever put people in prison.

Killer: "Hey, dont' blame me. I'm only following god's plan. He didn't stop me, did he?"

TimCallahan · 22nd September 2010, 04:11 PM

This whole idea of making God responsible for everything; which flows from this idea that, since God is infinite in every way, there are no accidents; is part and parcel of monotheism. Pagans actually have an advantage here: Their gods are a bit limited, and many of them are less than all-good. Thus, there is still an element of chance, and there is no basically insoluble conundrum, such as the problem of evil in a universe made by an all-good god.

Whereas the Christian god is a beneficent father, the Greek gods were a bunch of powerful in-laws, who were less than pleased with the fact that you married their daughter.

rwerdja · 22nd September 2010, 05:01 PM

It's funny how God only gets credit for the good things he does, like when he answers your prayers, or saves you from a burning building, but does not have to be held accountable for the misdeeds that occur .. like when he doesn't answer your prayers or you are not saved from a burning building.

iknownothing · 23rd September 2010, 04:42 AM

OK, I saw this and thought "church van, probably no one wearing seat belts" Sure enough,

Quote:

Police said Lattibeaudiere and Bishop White, who was in the front passenger seat, were the only ones in the 1997 Ford van wearing seat belts. The seat-belt law requires only those in front to buckle up.

I guess there's no point in wearing seat belts, since God will decide whether to take you home or not anyway.

Internet Ministry · 23rd September 2010, 09:05 AM

How would You

know?

DC · 23rd September 2010, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Internet Ministry

How would You

know?

he told me in my prayers.

Foster Zygote · 23rd September 2010, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Internet Ministry

How would You

know?

You do realize that the title of this thread was an acerbic comment regarding the parishioner's statement that "God never makes mistakes", yes?

De_Bunk · 23rd September 2010, 09:14 AM

No different to when a child dies, born to God loving, Church going, devoted to 'baby Jesus' parents..

I just want to say to them..'What did you do to upset God that bad where he wanted to punish you like that...You must have done something evil' ..

(But you can't..That wouldn't be right...not now, not ever to anyone who has lost a child...But where is there God then...God must have wanted them to suffer that heartache..that sorrow...)

Psi Baba · 23rd September 2010, 10:58 AM

This incident, which took place in a northern suburb here in Pittsburgh in 2006, riles me to this day, in terms of people who declare miracles, "God's plan", or any other such BS. A beautiful young family with triplets, parents both teachers, well-liked and respected by everyone who knew them, their lives revolved around their children (naturally deemed "blessings" and "miracles" by those around them), in a flash moment turned into the subject of grisly horror. While the father was driving the triplets southbound on Route 8, a chipper broke loose from a dump truck traveling in the opposite direction, smashing into the minivan, killing the father and two of the triplets. All that is left of the family is the mother and one surviving triplet (who was hospitalized in critical condition for a time). There can be absolutely no point, purpose, or plan to such horrific tragedy, regardless of what believers try to maintain.
Accident of Rte 8 shatters 'miracle' family

Quote:

They waited for years to have children, and when they learned there would be triplets, Spencer and Nicole Morrison were overjoyed.

Their family and friends shared in the excitement and watched over the last four years as those children -- two boys and a girl -- shaped the lives of everyone around them.

Quote:

"He was so proud when he came in with those kids," said Dr. Hansen. "Every little thing that happened was such a joy to him."

In such a small district, the superintendent said, everyone shared in the Morrisons' good news when they heard about the triplets.

"From the day they found out they were expecting them, his life revolved around those kids," said Ms. Nunamaker. "They were miracles."

If I hadn't already been an atheist before then, this certainly would have sealed the deal for me.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/...18/detail.html

Quote:

Widow Nichole Morrison told the judge that her pain is immeasurable. She described having to explain to her 5-year-old who asks often, "When are they coming home, mommy?"

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06110/683622-54.stm

Quote:

The Rev. Charles Bober's voice broke as he recalled preparing Mr. Morrison and his wife, Nicole, for the triplets' baptism in 2002. He had explained that baptism opens a relationship with Christ that continues into eternity.

"For Alaina and Garret, eternity came all too soon. But it is eternity, nonetheless," he said. "They are with Christ, as was promised to them that day of their baptism. With their father, they did not disappear -- they walked with Jesus into eternal life, where they await all of us."

Pup · 23rd September 2010, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Psi Baba

There can be absolutely no point, purpose, or plan to such horrific tragedy, regardless of what believers try to maintain.

That to me is a perfect example of the comfort that atheism can bring. One doesn't need to picture an old man in the sky who could have saved your loved ones, but chose not to, for some reason. It's just something random bad that happened. Which is tragic enough, but at least you don't have to feel that if only you'd done something more to appease him, you might have been able to convince him to prevent it. Or that you still need to love him, even after what he did.

TimCallahan · 24th September 2010, 10:00 AM

Internet Ministry:

What is your view on the idea that accidents don't happen - either traffic accidents or genetic accidents - because God is in charge and ordains all things. Do you agree or disagree with this doctrine?

19th September 2010, 08:56 PM	#1
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,019	God Kills 6 More People Quote: Members of a small Bronx church decimated by a tragic highway accident gathered Sunday to mourn their bishop and friends - but did not question their loss. "We know God never makes mistakes," said Jay Goving of the Bronx, a close friend of Bishop Simon White. White, 55, his wife, Zelda, 52, and four others were killed when their church van blew a tire on the New York State Thruway on Saturday and flipped several times. Eight other parishioners aboard survived but were hospitalized. http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...doesnt_ma.html Who can stop this bloodthirsty killer?

19th September 2010, 09:02 PM	#2
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	Doctor Hannibal Lecktor: Did you really feel depressed after you shot Mr. Garrett Jacob Hobbes to death? l think you probably did. But it wasn't the act that got to you. Didn't you feel so bad, because killing him felt so good? And why shouldn't it feel good? lt must feel good to God. He does it all the time. God's terrific! He dropped a church roof on 34 of his worshippers in Texas last Wednesday night, just as they were groveling through a hymn to his majesty. Don't you think that felt good? Will Graham: Why does it feel good, Dr. Lecktor? Doctor Hannibal Lecktor: lt feels good because God has power. lf one does what God does enough times, one will become as God is. God's a champ. He always stays ahead. He got 140 Phillipinos in one plane crash last year. Remember that earthquake in ltaly last spring?
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

20th September 2010, 03:40 AM	#4
welshdean 2012 6Nations Grand Slam -------CHAMPIONS------- Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Spitting in Andrew Wakefields eye Posts: 1,398	Originally Posted by WildCat http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...doesnt_ma.html Who can stop this bloodthirsty killer? John Boyd Dunlop
	__________________ Poe's Law!!! im christian if we came from apes how come were not hairy and have a big mouth and did we end up looking like we do know and besides there isnt any serious proof of apes they showd a video saying an ape was wondering around in the forest that thing looked exactly like a costume that i had saw at a store know one ever cought an ape (spelling/punctuation by original author)

20th September 2010, 11:15 AM	#5
maddog Intimidating Terrapin Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The People's Republic of Maryland Posts: 11,819	Quote: "We know God never makes mistakes," said Jay Goving of the Bronx, a close friend of Bishop Simon White. How do they "know" ? And even if they're right, God may not make mistakes, but whoever checked the tires of that van sure did!
	__________________ 90% of what I say is meant to be funny, and the other half doesn't mean anything at all. When I grow up, I want to be just like me.

20th September 2010, 12:53 PM	#6
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by WildCat http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...doesnt_ma.html Who can stop this bloodthirsty killer? He's just bringing them home. "Killing" is bad based on the assumption there is no god, or there is, but if you kill someone, you might be killing them when they were not in a state of grace. God has neither such problem, of course. Clearly, He knows He exists, so the first isn't an issue. And secondly, He knows if each person is in a state of grace or not. At worst, if they're not, then God is merely an Ass.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

19th September 2010, 10:26 PM	#3
Slimething Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Arizona USA Posts: 3,727	As long as he targets people who worship him, I'm safe.

20th September 2010, 09:54 PM	#7
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,752	The thing to remember is that it's all part of a plan. There, now don't you feel better?
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

21st September 2010, 01:59 AM	#8
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,845	Originally Posted by Puppycow The thing to remember is that it's all part of a plan. There, now don't you feel better? But he'll also gladly change that plan because some nobody in the mid-west asked real nice, right?

21st September 2010, 10:43 AM	#9
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,128	The whole "God never makes mistakes" mindset is also applied not only to tragic accidents (since "accidents" can't happen if God is in charge) but as well to genetic disorders such as Down's syndrome, Tay-Sachs and multiple sclerosis. One of the more bizarre explanations of why God would allowed this is "for his glory." So God afflicted your infant with a horrible, painful disease that will kill the child in a few years "for his glory"?
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,128

21st September 2010, 11:53 AM	#10
Psi Baba Homo Skepticalis Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Occupying my barstool Posts: 3,179	By human standards, this God is insane. It's why the devout have to do headstands trying explain its bizarre behavior. It makes one think that HP Lovecraft's gods weren't so different from the gods of human cultures. There really is no hope for benevolence; the best one can hope for is indifference.
	__________________ Save Caribbean Rum! (seriously)

21st September 2010, 04:56 PM	#11
GrandMasterFox Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,315	I never got this idea. Doesn't this mean we can't ever put people in prison. Killer: "Hey, dont' blame me. I'm only following god's plan. He didn't stop me, did he?"

22nd September 2010, 04:11 PM	#12
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,128	This whole idea of making God responsible for everything; which flows from this idea that, since God is infinite in every way, there are no accidents; is part and parcel of monotheism. Pagans actually have an advantage here: Their gods are a bit limited, and many of them are less than all-good. Thus, there is still an element of chance, and there is no basically insoluble conundrum, such as the problem of evil in a universe made by an all-good god. Whereas the Christian god is a beneficent father, the Greek gods were a bunch of powerful in-laws, who were less than pleased with the fact that you married their daughter.
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,128

22nd September 2010, 05:01 PM	#13
rwerdja Thinker Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 154	It's funny how God only gets credit for the good things he does, like when he answers your prayers, or saves you from a burning building, but does not have to be held accountable for the misdeeds that occur .. like when he doesn't answer your prayers or you are not saved from a burning building.
rwerdja Thinker Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 154

23rd September 2010, 04:42 AM	#14
iknownothing Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,154	OK, I saw this and thought "church van, probably no one wearing seat belts" Sure enough, Quote: Police said Lattibeaudiere and Bishop White, who was in the front passenger seat, were the only ones in the 1997 Ford van wearing seat belts. The seat-belt law requires only those in front to buckle up. I guess there's no point in wearing seat belts, since God will decide whether to take you home or not anyway.

23rd September 2010, 09:05 AM	#15
Internet Ministry Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 32	God Kills 6 More People How would You know?

23rd September 2010, 09:08 AM	#16
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,652	Originally Posted by Internet Ministry How would You know? he told me in my prayers.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

23rd September 2010, 09:10 AM	#17
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,393	Originally Posted by Internet Ministry How would You know? You do realize that the title of this thread was an acerbic comment regarding the parishioner's statement that "God never makes mistakes", yes?
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

23rd September 2010, 09:14 AM	#18
De_Bunk Scourge of the Believer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,508	No different to when a child dies, born to God loving, Church going, devoted to 'baby Jesus' parents.. I just want to say to them..'What did you do to upset God that bad where he wanted to punish you like that...You must have done something evil' .. (But you can't..That wouldn't be right...not now, not ever to anyone who has lost a child...But where is there God then...God must have wanted them to suffer that heartache..that sorrow...)
	__________________ I've made nearly 20,000 posts on the JREF... Trouble is..over 14,000 have been deleted... And you think you're 'Hardcore'.. (DB) Last edited by De_Bunk; 23rd September 2010 at 09:18 AM.

23rd September 2010, 10:58 AM	#19
Psi Baba Homo Skepticalis Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Occupying my barstool Posts: 3,179	This incident, which took place in a northern suburb here in Pittsburgh in 2006, riles me to this day, in terms of people who declare miracles, "God's plan", or any other such BS. A beautiful young family with triplets, parents both teachers, well-liked and respected by everyone who knew them, their lives revolved around their children (naturally deemed "blessings" and "miracles" by those around them), in a flash moment turned into the subject of grisly horror. While the father was driving the triplets southbound on Route 8, a chipper broke loose from a dump truck traveling in the opposite direction, smashing into the minivan, killing the father and two of the triplets. All that is left of the family is the mother and one surviving triplet (who was hospitalized in critical condition for a time). There can be absolutely no point, purpose, or plan to such horrific tragedy, regardless of what believers try to maintain. Accident of Rte 8 shatters 'miracle' family Quote: They waited for years to have children, and when they learned there would be triplets, Spencer and Nicole Morrison were overjoyed. Their family and friends shared in the excitement and watched over the last four years as those children -- two boys and a girl -- shaped the lives of everyone around them. Quote: "He was so proud when he came in with those kids," said Dr. Hansen. "Every little thing that happened was such a joy to him." In such a small district, the superintendent said, everyone shared in the Morrisons' good news when they heard about the triplets. "From the day they found out they were expecting them, his life revolved around those kids," said Ms. Nunamaker. "They were miracles." If I hadn't already been an atheist before then, this certainly would have sealed the deal for me. http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/...18/detail.html Quote: Widow Nichole Morrison told the judge that her pain is immeasurable. She described having to explain to her 5-year-old who asks often, "When are they coming home, mommy?" http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06110/683622-54.stm Quote: The Rev. Charles Bober's voice broke as he recalled preparing Mr. Morrison and his wife, Nicole, for the triplets' baptism in 2002. He had explained that baptism opens a relationship with Christ that continues into eternity. "For Alaina and Garret, eternity came all too soon. But it is eternity, nonetheless," he said. "They are with Christ, as was promised to them that day of their baptism. With their father, they did not disappear -- they walked with Jesus into eternal life, where they await all of us."
	__________________ Save Caribbean Rum! (seriously)

23rd September 2010, 02:03 PM	#20
Pup Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,589	Originally Posted by Psi Baba There can be absolutely no point, purpose, or plan to such horrific tragedy, regardless of what believers try to maintain. That to me is a perfect example of the comfort that atheism can bring. One doesn't need to picture an old man in the sky who could have saved your loved ones, but chose not to, for some reason. It's just something random bad that happened. Which is tragic enough, but at least you don't have to feel that if only you'd done something more to appease him, you might have been able to convince him to prevent it. Or that you still need to love him, even after what he did.
Pup Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,589

24th September 2010, 10:00 AM	#21
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,128	Internet Ministry: What is your view on the idea that accidents don't happen - either traffic accidents or genetic accidents - because God is in charge and ordains all things. Do you agree or disagree with this doctrine?
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,128