Three Laws Of Robotics - Page 2

teddosan · 20th February 2004, 12:30 PM

It seems that everyone has no problem attributing human qualities to robots... I don't understand this... For instance, people have been talking about robots' "freedom." If we are going to treat machines like humans, why has there never been a movement to free the cars and trucks of the world? I think that people have a real misconception about what a robot is. Robots don't "think" any more than the computer that you are reading this post on thinks. Is your computer "free?" Or is it your slave? Neither; it is a machine that does what it was made to do, and a robot is just a computer with some electro-mechanical interfaces.

Toasters and Blenders of the world unite for FREEDOM!!!!!!!

Brian · 20th February 2004, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dragonrock
A just found that his novel, The Positronic Man, was based on his short story, The Bicentenial Man. I never read the short story, just the novel and it appears that the movie took more from the short story than the novel.

Basically what I'm saying is "We were both right".

Never read the Positronic Man, but Bicentenial is great. More of a novella.
In an effort to be legaly a person the robot opens an insurance company and fights (and loses) every claim on a person with any artificial body parts. He knew he would lose, but he was setting legal precedent, as he made his robot body more and more flesh and blood. Even when he's completely transfered his mind into a human body, in the end humanity wants one more thing from him for them to accept him as a person.

Michael Redman · 20th February 2004, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZouPrime
Asimov viewed his robots as another tool, one with expectionnal potential and multiple functionnalities, but a tool nevertheless. His position was that if we creates robots the same way we creates all our other tools, there's no reason why robots shouldn't follow the same "rules".

Any why would we create robots but to be tools?

I think it would be wrong for us to create an artificial entity capable of respecting our rights, and desiring its own, if we did not also wish to respect (or grant) its rights.

Johnny Pneumatic · 20th February 2004, 12:46 PM

a robot is just a computer with some electro-mechanical interfaces.-teddosan

Yes, and humans are just machines too.
A blender having rights would be crazy; I'm saying a Data
should have the same rights as we do.

wollery · 20th February 2004, 12:51 PM

Okay, this may or may not be a good time to point out that the word "robot" is a Czech word which means slave!

I would also like to note that Data is never referred to as a robot, he is always called an android. Perhaps that should be part of the distinction as far as rights go.

Johnny Pneumatic · 20th February 2004, 12:58 PM

"robot" is a Czech word which means slave!-wollery

No...robota is a Czech word that means "heavy laborer".

Dragonrock · 20th February 2004, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
"robot" is a Czech word which means slave!-wollery

No...robota is a Czech word that means "heavy laborer".

No, "roboto" is a word that means "thank you" in Styx.

Graham · 20th February 2004, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by teddosan
It seems that everyone has no problem attributing human qualities to robots... I don't understand this... For instance, people have been talking about robots' "freedom." If we are going to treat machines like humans, why has there never been a movement to free the cars and trucks of the world? I think that people have a real misconception about what a robot is. Robots don't "think" any more than the computer that you are reading this post on thinks. Is your computer "free?" Or is it your slave? Neither; it is a machine that does what it was made to do, and a robot is just a computer with some electro-mechanical interfaces.

Toasters and Blenders of the world unite for FREEDOM!!!!!!!

I hate to break this to you teddosan but you're nothing more than a very advanced toaster yourself (oh my Ed, is it just me or am I starting to sound like Franko?).

Do you disagree? Can you tell what it is that makes you qualatively different to a toaster?

Graham

Phaycops · 20th February 2004, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by teddosan
It seems that everyone has no problem attributing human qualities to robots... I don't understand this... For instance, people have been talking about robots' "freedom." If we are going to treat machines like humans, why has there never been a movement to free the cars and trucks of the world? I think that people have a real misconception about what a robot is. Robots don't "think" any more than the computer that you are reading this post on thinks. Is your computer "free?" Or is it your slave? Neither; it is a machine that does what it was made to do, and a robot is just a computer with some electro-mechanical interfaces.

Toasters and Blenders of the world unite for FREEDOM!!!!!!!

Ted--
I feel you've missed the point a bit in talking about freedoms. Yes, robots as they are today are nothing more than advanced toasters. But I think what the discussion is about is what if in the future you can create a self-aware, sentient AI with free will? Can or should humans "program" it to obey certain basic orders (don't kill people, don't steal stuff, etc.), or should they allow the AI to have all the rights of a person, i.e., be "free"?

scribble · 20th February 2004, 07:15 PM

I've just read some excellent work on the current thinking in actual AI fields, and it seems like there are two camps of thought about Asimov's Laws:

1) It's laughable to think they could be implemented in any fashion that wouldn't be just as easy to un-implement.

2) It's laughable to think that any system hindered by these types of rules could ever apprach what we recognize as sentience (a primary characteristic of sci-fi robots)

Now, I've just finished a good novel that did use the Thee Laws... if you can get past the first chapter which is brutally violent (not for children!), it's a fascinating peice of (free!) sci-fi:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/mopiidx.html

I thought it was a real good read, though it falls short of perfection in a few places.

20th February 2004, 12:34 PM	#42
Brian Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,780	Quote: Originally posted by Dragonrock A just found that his novel, The Positronic Man, was based on his short story, The Bicentenial Man. I never read the short story, just the novel and it appears that the movie took more from the short story than the novel. Basically what I'm saying is "We were both right". Never read the Positronic Man, but Bicentenial is great. More of a novella. In an effort to be legaly a person the robot opens an insurance company and fights (and loses) every claim on a person with any artificial body parts. He knew he would lose, but he was setting legal precedent, as he made his robot body more and more flesh and blood. Even when he's completely transfered his mind into a human body, in the end humanity wants one more thing from him for them to accept him as a person.
Brian Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,780	__________________ O' beautiful, for spacious skies But now those skies are threatening They're beating plowshares into swords For this tired old man that we elected king Armchair warriors often fail And we've been poisoned by these fairy tales The lawyers clean up all details Since daddy had to lie -Don Henley

20th February 2004, 12:39 PM	#43
Michael Redman Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 3,063	Quote: Originally posted by ZouPrime Asimov viewed his robots as another tool, one with expectionnal potential and multiple functionnalities, but a tool nevertheless. His position was that if we creates robots the same way we creates all our other tools, there's no reason why robots shouldn't follow the same "rules". Any why would we create robots but to be tools? I think it would be wrong for us to create an artificial entity capable of respecting our rights, and desiring its own, if we did not also wish to respect (or grant) its rights.
	__________________ The rule is perfect; in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane. - Mark Twain

20th February 2004, 12:46 PM	#44
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	a robot is just a computer with some electro-mechanical interfaces.-teddosan Yes, and humans are just machines too. A blender having rights would be crazy; I'm saying a Data should have the same rights as we do.
	__________________ If we don't play god, who will?-James Watson What the hell is the matter with you people? Get your minds into the gutter!-Dorian Gray Good Lord - I've heard about this - cat juggling! Stop! Stop! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Good. Father, could there be a God that would let this happen?- Navin R. Johnson, The Jerk There is nothing to believe in. There's no need to believe...There is nothing to believe in in this world. -Vicious, Cowboy Bebop

20th February 2004, 12:51 PM	#45
wollery Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Land of Eternal Hope Posts: 10,319	Okay, this may or may not be a good time to point out that the word "robot" is a Czech word which means slave! I would also like to note that Data is never referred to as a robot, he is always called an android. Perhaps that should be part of the distinction as far as rights go.
	__________________ "You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

20th February 2004, 12:58 PM	#46
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	"robot" is a Czech word which means slave!-wollery No...robota is a Czech word that means "heavy laborer".
	__________________ If we don't play god, who will?-James Watson What the hell is the matter with you people? Get your minds into the gutter!-Dorian Gray Good Lord - I've heard about this - cat juggling! Stop! Stop! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Good. Father, could there be a God that would let this happen?- Navin R. Johnson, The Jerk There is nothing to believe in. There's no need to believe...There is nothing to believe in in this world. -Vicious, Cowboy Bebop

20th February 2004, 12:30 PM	#41
teddosan Student Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 44	It seems that everyone has no problem attributing human qualities to robots... I don't understand this... For instance, people have been talking about robots' "freedom." If we are going to treat machines like humans, why has there never been a movement to free the cars and trucks of the world? I think that people have a real misconception about what a robot is. Robots don't "think" any more than the computer that you are reading this post on thinks. Is your computer "free?" Or is it your slave? Neither; it is a machine that does what it was made to do, and a robot is just a computer with some electro-mechanical interfaces. Toasters and Blenders of the world unite for FREEDOM!!!!!!!

20th February 2004, 01:16 PM	#47
Dragonrock Militant Elvisian Tacoist Join Date: May 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 9,856	Quote: Originally posted by bewareofdogmas "robot" is a Czech word which means slave!-wollery No...robota is a Czech word that means "heavy laborer". No, "roboto" is a word that means "thank you" in Styx.
	__________________ ...it rings a bell in my head that just don't chime...--pillory There is no God but the Great Taco In The Sky and Elvis is his prophet.

20th February 2004, 03:17 PM	#48
Graham Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,465	Quote: Originally posted by teddosan It seems that everyone has no problem attributing human qualities to robots... I don't understand this... For instance, people have been talking about robots' "freedom." If we are going to treat machines like humans, why has there never been a movement to free the cars and trucks of the world? I think that people have a real misconception about what a robot is. Robots don't "think" any more than the computer that you are reading this post on thinks. Is your computer "free?" Or is it your slave? Neither; it is a machine that does what it was made to do, and a robot is just a computer with some electro-mechanical interfaces. Toasters and Blenders of the world unite for FREEDOM!!!!!!! I hate to break this to you teddosan but you're nothing more than a very advanced toaster yourself (oh my Ed, is it just me or am I starting to sound like Franko?). Do you disagree? Can you tell what it is that makes you qualatively different to a toaster? Graham
Graham Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,465	__________________ The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it's just sort of a tired feeling. - Paula Poundstone

20th February 2004, 06:16 PM	#49
Phaycops Guest Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 517	Quote: Originally posted by teddosan It seems that everyone has no problem attributing human qualities to robots... I don't understand this... For instance, people have been talking about robots' "freedom." If we are going to treat machines like humans, why has there never been a movement to free the cars and trucks of the world? I think that people have a real misconception about what a robot is. Robots don't "think" any more than the computer that you are reading this post on thinks. Is your computer "free?" Or is it your slave? Neither; it is a machine that does what it was made to do, and a robot is just a computer with some electro-mechanical interfaces. Toasters and Blenders of the world unite for FREEDOM!!!!!!! Ted-- I feel you've missed the point a bit in talking about freedoms. Yes, robots as they are today are nothing more than advanced toasters. But I think what the discussion is about is what if in the future you can create a self-aware, sentient AI with free will? Can or should humans "program" it to obey certain basic orders (don't kill people, don't steal stuff, etc.), or should they allow the AI to have all the rights of a person, i.e., be "free"?

20th February 2004, 07:15 PM	#50
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	I've just read some excellent work on the current thinking in actual AI fields, and it seems like there are two camps of thought about Asimov's Laws: 1) It's laughable to think they could be implemented in any fashion that wouldn't be just as easy to un-implement. 2) It's laughable to think that any system hindered by these types of rules could ever apprach what we recognize as sentience (a primary characteristic of sci-fi robots) Now, I've just finished a good novel that did use the Thee Laws... if you can get past the first chapter which is brutally violent (not for children!), it's a fascinating peice of (free!) sci-fi: http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/mopiidx.html I thought it was a real good read, though it falls short of perfection in a few places.
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."