Fecal transplant may help prediabetes symptoms

commandlinegamer · 25th September 2010, 05:06 AM

http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/EASD/22352

Sounds promising, but given the enormous amount of bugs in our intestines, are we at a stage where we can definitively say which are good or bad? Do we still understand more about the surface of the moon, than our own guts?

Vorticity · 25th September 2010, 05:34 AM

I'm afraid that this thread isn'tgoing to get much further than the first two words of the title.

Starthinker · 25th September 2010, 07:44 AM

I predict a lot of "what a load of crap" puns. Apart from dealing with diebetes perhaps this could become a health/weight loss craze. "The secret to staying thin-two girls and cup know!"

Professor Yaffle · 25th September 2010, 07:51 AM

Thats interesting. I've heard of it being used for treatment of C. dificile infection and ulcerative colitis, but using it for pre diabetes is new to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_bacteriotherapy
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...hters-poo.html
http://journals.lww.com/jcge/Fulltex...and_the.8.aspx

Starthinker · 25th September 2010, 11:44 AM

So all those times my ex told me to eat s*** she was just looking out for my health?

Dr. Imago · 25th September 2010, 03:38 PM

Yeah, it's gonna take a lot more than an 18-patient trial to convince me to feed **** to my patients.

Sorry. I'm not convinced. In fact, I don't even consider this "promising" research at this point.

~Dr. Imago

casebro · 25th September 2010, 05:41 PM

Is this another instance where sanitation is proving detrimental to good health?

casebro · 26th September 2010, 05:12 PM

But hmmmm.... there is a pretty good link of alcohol to diabetes. I sure find that the glass of wine with dinner lowers my blood sugar- I'm type II, on insulin. I know that the by-products of alcohol metabolism are the same as fat metabolism by-products- acetaldehyde. I feel that the mechanism may be that the body confuses the acetaldehyde from alcohol as a signal that the body has burned fats, and needs to boost the sugar metabolism.

Germaine to today's point could be that the 'germs' (yeast, easiest answer) in the gut make sugars into alcohol, sending a message having to do with boosting the sugar metabolism. Aren't there several studies re: alcohol consumption being good for diabetics?

I'll drink to that!

Much preferred activity over eating $__+.

casebro · 3rd October 2010, 08:29 AM

Hate to be a thread necromancer, but :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1802190

"Recent developments in short-chain fatty acid metabolism."

Basically, internal bio breaks down undigestibles, make short chain fatty acids in the colon. SCFA is good for the mucosal linings.

I think I'll go eat some coconut oil, loaded with SCFAs. Or goat's milk/cheese. ETA: The germs in the goat's digestive tract turn the cellulose into the SCFAs, no?

C_Felix · 4th October 2010, 07:15 AM

My question is this:
Who came up with this idea?
"Hey! I gotta idea!"
"What is it Lars?"
"Lets transplant some **** from some skinny people to some fat people!"
"(chrip) (chirp)"

Emet · 4th October 2010, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by C_Felix

My question is this:
Who came up with this idea?
"Hey! I gotta idea!"
"What is it Lars?"
"Lets transplant some **** from some skinny people to some fat people!"
"(chrip) (chirp)"

Actually, it has been used in veterinary medicine for some time:

Quote:

The hypothesis behind fecal bacteriotherapy rests on the concept of bacterial interference: using harmless bacteria to displace pathogenic organisms. This approach to combating bacterial infections is not new[4], and has long been used in animals; for example, to prevent salmonellosis in chickens[5].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_b...oretical_basis

casebro · 4th October 2010, 02:54 PM

Anecdote or History: When the Germans were in North Africa, a German Herr Doktor was puzzled by the way the Arabs didn't seem to be bothered by the Dysentery that was killing the German Soldiers. So he asked a trusted indigenous assistant. The local cure was to swallow some fresh horse dung. "harmless bacteria to displace pathogenic organisms. "

Related to this thread, I have been looking into SCFA, short chain fatty acids. Seems the intestinal flora feed on un-digestible fiber, making SCFAs, used directly by the intestinal mucosa to heal themselves. I have a mitochondrial disease, and seem to do better with higher intakes of SCFAs. Not doing as well lately, since I cut back on food fried in coconut oil, and butter. So now I'm back on to oatmeal pancakes fried in coconut oil, slathered in butter.

There is much googlable on SCFAs linked to diabetes. I have diabetes too, and one study showed about 17% of diabetics have a mito gene prob. Mitos prefer SCFAs as fuel, and folks with problems may lack the enzyme to break long chains. So short chains it is for me, not just my myopathy, but for my diabetes.

So: germs make more SCFAs in the intestines, good for the intestines AND diabetes in general?

25th September 2010, 05:06 AM	#1
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 5,889	Fecal transplant may help prediabetes symptoms http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/EASD/22352 Sounds promising, but given the enormous amount of bugs in our intestines, are we at a stage where we can definitively say which are good or bad? Do we still understand more about the surface of the moon, than our own guts?
	__________________ He bade me take any rug in the house.

25th September 2010, 05:34 AM	#2
Vorticity Fluid Mechanic Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Los Alamos, NM Posts: 2,646	I'm afraid that this thread isn'tgoing to get much further than the first two words of the title.
	__________________ Free lunch. Final wisdom. Total coverage. http://stopsylvia.com

25th September 2010, 07:44 AM	#3
Starthinker Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 5,014	I predict a lot of "what a load of crap" puns. Apart from dealing with diebetes perhaps this could become a health/weight loss craze. "The secret to staying thin-two girls and cup know!"
	__________________ \|¦¦\|¦ \|¦\|\|\|\|¦\|\|\|¦\|\|¦¦\|¦\|\|\|\|\|\|\|¦\|¦¦¦¦\|¦¦¦¦\|\|¦\|¦\|¦¦\|¦ \|¦¦\|¦ He who doubts victory has already lost the battle. Below the navel there is neither religion nor truth.

25th September 2010, 07:51 AM	#4
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 15,329	Thats interesting. I've heard of it being used for treatment of C. dificile infection and ulcerative colitis, but using it for pre diabetes is new to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_bacteriotherapy http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...hters-poo.html http://journals.lww.com/jcge/Fulltex...and_the.8.aspx
	__________________ I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that. My blog "Well I think I've made it abundantly clear in this thread I have no idea what I'm talking about..." - truethat Last edited by Professor Yaffle; 25th September 2010 at 07:54 AM.

25th September 2010, 11:44 AM	#5
Starthinker Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 5,014	So all those times my ex told me to eat s*** she was just looking out for my health?
	__________________ \|¦¦\|¦ \|¦\|\|\|\|¦\|\|\|¦\|\|¦¦\|¦\|\|\|\|\|\|\|¦\|¦¦¦¦\|¦¦¦¦\|\|¦\|¦\|¦¦\|¦ \|¦¦\|¦ He who doubts victory has already lost the battle. Below the navel there is neither religion nor truth.

25th September 2010, 03:38 PM	#6
Dr. Imago Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,050	Yeah, it's gonna take a lot more than an 18-patient trial to convince me to feed **** to my patients. Sorry. I'm not convinced. In fact, I don't even consider this "promising" research at this point. ~Dr. Imago
Dr. Imago Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,050	__________________ DISCLAIMER: The above post is for informational and/or educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for the professional judgment of, in direct consultation with, a health care professional in diagnosing, treating, and/or preventing any disease or disorder. It is not to be construed as individualized medical advice, diagnosis, or a treatment recommendation. Your reliance upon the information obtained or used by you at, through, or as a result of this post is solely at your own risk. Last edited by Gaspode; 1st July 2011 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Removed breach of rule 10

25th September 2010, 05:41 PM	#7
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	Is this another instance where sanitation is proving detrimental to good health?
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

26th September 2010, 05:12 PM	#8
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	But hmmmm.... there is a pretty good link of alcohol to diabetes. I sure find that the glass of wine with dinner lowers my blood sugar- I'm type II, on insulin. I know that the by-products of alcohol metabolism are the same as fat metabolism by-products- acetaldehyde. I feel that the mechanism may be that the body confuses the acetaldehyde from alcohol as a signal that the body has burned fats, and needs to boost the sugar metabolism. Germaine to today's point could be that the 'germs' (yeast, easiest answer) in the gut make sugars into alcohol, sending a message having to do with boosting the sugar metabolism. Aren't there several studies re: alcohol consumption being good for diabetics? I'll drink to that! Much preferred activity over eating $__+.
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts. Last edited by casebro; 26th September 2010 at 05:13 PM.

3rd October 2010, 08:29 AM	#9
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	Hate to be a thread necromancer, but : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1802190 "Recent developments in short-chain fatty acid metabolism." Basically, internal bio breaks down undigestibles, make short chain fatty acids in the colon. SCFA is good for the mucosal linings. I think I'll go eat some coconut oil, loaded with SCFAs. Or goat's milk/cheese. ETA: The germs in the goat's digestive tract turn the cellulose into the SCFAs, no?
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts. Last edited by casebro; 3rd October 2010 at 08:31 AM.

4th October 2010, 07:15 AM	#10
C_Felix Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Right outside Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,041	My question is this: Who came up with this idea? "Hey! I gotta idea!" "What is it Lars?" "Lets transplant some **** from some skinny people to some fat people!" "(chrip) (chirp)"

4th October 2010, 07:34 AM	#11
Emet Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,395	Originally Posted by C_Felix My question is this: Who came up with this idea? "Hey! I gotta idea!" "What is it Lars?" "Lets transplant some **** from some skinny people to some fat people!" "(chrip) (chirp)" Actually, it has been used in veterinary medicine for some time: Quote: The hypothesis behind fecal bacteriotherapy rests on the concept of bacterial interference: using harmless bacteria to displace pathogenic organisms. This approach to combating bacterial infections is not new[4], and has long been used in animals; for example, to prevent salmonellosis in chickens[5]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_b...oretical_basis
Emet Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,395

4th October 2010, 02:54 PM	#12
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	Anecdote or History: When the Germans were in North Africa, a German Herr Doktor was puzzled by the way the Arabs didn't seem to be bothered by the Dysentery that was killing the German Soldiers. So he asked a trusted indigenous assistant. The local cure was to swallow some fresh horse dung. "harmless bacteria to displace pathogenic organisms. " Related to this thread, I have been looking into SCFA, short chain fatty acids. Seems the intestinal flora feed on un-digestible fiber, making SCFAs, used directly by the intestinal mucosa to heal themselves. I have a mitochondrial disease, and seem to do better with higher intakes of SCFAs. Not doing as well lately, since I cut back on food fried in coconut oil, and butter. So now I'm back on to oatmeal pancakes fried in coconut oil, slathered in butter. There is much googlable on SCFAs linked to diabetes. I have diabetes too, and one study showed about 17% of diabetics have a mito gene prob. Mitos prefer SCFAs as fuel, and folks with problems may lack the enzyme to break long chains. So short chains it is for me, not just my myopathy, but for my diabetes. So: germs make more SCFAs in the intestines, good for the intestines AND diabetes in general?
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.