Buckyball; is the phonon a 'photon'?

Bishadi · 3rd October 2010, 08:02 AM

In this attached link they are trying to share that within a C-60 (buckyball), they can calculate the phonon energy vibrations and even considering the implications of another structure to be place within the BB at variatant energy states.

The term to identify that 'vibration' is the phonon; is that phonon a photon?

Heat?

Abstract
In a bucky ball, the atoms are all interconnected with each other through sp 2 bonding, thus resulting in exceptional strength. Apart from its hardness, the important fact is that for nanotechnology, useful dopant atoms can be placed inside the hollow fullerene ball. In order to utilize such properties and the strength of this molecule, it is of interest to study its stability under internal and external pressure. Therefore, in this paper, we made an attempt to study the stability of this molecule based on its binding strength. We have used the Tersoff [1,2] as well as Brenner potential [3] for the intramolecular interactions between the carbon atoms of a bucky ball and compared the two.
Fulltext Preview http://www.springerlink.com/content/v648j0q578648678/

Doctor Evil · 3rd October 2010, 08:20 AM

no

Dancing David · 3rd October 2010, 08:23 AM

Phonon^WP

Jeff Corey · 3rd October 2010, 08:26 AM

http://physics.about.com/od/physicsmtop/g/phonon.htm

Bishadi · 3rd October 2010, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Doctor Evil

no

Thanks

as i was not sure when it appears wiki is suggesting the phonon is based on an occilation (a frequency):

"In physics, a phonon is a quasiparticle characterized by the quantization of the modes of lattice vibrations of periodic, elastic crystal structures of solids.

The study of phonons is an important part of solid state physics because phonons play a major role in many of the physical properties of solids, including a material's thermal and electrical conductivities.

A phonon is a quantum mechanical description of a special type of vibrational motion, known as normal modes in classical mechanics, in which a lattice uniformly oscillates at the same frequency. "

maybe it is a gravity, or weak force, maybe the strong force just hummming away.....

i better go read the math before just the abstract.

Thanks you as your post was so helpful

fuelair · 3rd October 2010, 09:22 AM

sp2 bonding, if this helps, appears to refer to the fact that carbon bonds via it's 2S (two of them in the 2nd S shell/energy level) and its 2P (two of them also - in the 2P shell/energy level) electrons. Which lets carbon make bonds with one to 4 other things (and the other things can be Carbon). No idea what that has to do with phonons - which is/are above my pay grade!!

For what that means graphically, I strongly suggest hunting up: David's Whizzy Periodic Table (the 40 element version is much neater than the full PT version but both are out there). The Chem Collective PT is pretty neat also - it shows Hund's rule.

drkitten · 3rd October 2010, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Thanks

as i was not sure when it appears wiki is suggesting the phonon is based on an occilation (a frequency):

Lots of things oscillate without being photons.

Guitar strings, for example.

Olowkow · 3rd October 2010, 09:48 AM

It pays to keep it simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Evil

no

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Thanks

i better go read the math before just the abstract.

Thanks you as your post was so helpful

Madalch · 3rd October 2010, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by fuelair

sp2 bonding, if this helps, appears to refer to the fact that carbon bonds via it's 2S (two of them in the 2nd S shell/energy level) and its 2P (two of them also - in the 2P shell/energy level) electrons. Which lets carbon make bonds with one to 4 other things (and the other things can be Carbon).

No- sp2 bonding means that the single 2s orbital on carbon is hybridized or mixed with two of the 2p orbitals, allowing for single bonds to three neighboring atoms. There is one 2p orbital left over, and this overlaps with the 2p orbitals on the neighboring atoms to allow additional pi bonding.

gabeygoat · 3rd October 2010, 10:41 AM

DUDE, my guitar strings are photons, but that's because I'm awesome.

MattusMaximus · 3rd October 2010, 01:11 PM

Phonons don't have anything to do with gravity or the strong & weak nuclear forces.

Phonons are quanta of acoustical vibrations in solids. The quantum of the strong force is gluons, the quanta of the weak force are W & Z bosons, and the (hypothetical) quantum of gravity is the graviton.

C_Felix · 4th October 2010, 07:19 AM

No +1

I'm begining to think Bishadi's post are some type of perfomance art.

Bishadi · 4th October 2010, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Phonons don't have anything to do with gravity or the strong & weak nuclear forces.

pb[Phonons are quanta of acoustical vibrations in solids[/b].

you finally said something. (the state of energy upon mass)

So is a life a phonon?

zooterkin · 4th October 2010, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

So is a life a phonon?

No.

phunk · 4th October 2010, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Thanks

as i was not sure when it appears wiki is suggesting the phonon is based on an occilation (a frequency):

"In physics, a phonon is a quasiparticle characterized by the quantization of the modes of lattice vibrations of periodic, elastic crystal structures of solids.

The study of phonons is an important part of solid state physics because phonons play a major role in many of the physical properties of solids, including a material's thermal and electrical conductivities.

A phonon is a quantum mechanical description of a special type of vibrational motion, known as normal modes in classical mechanics, in which a lattice uniformly oscillates at the same frequency. "

maybe it is a gravity, or weak force, maybe the strong force just hummming away.....

i better go read the math before just the abstract.

Thanks you as your post was so helpful

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you seem to be under the impression that frequency is a property of photons only. Is that your understanding?

Bishadi · 4th October 2010, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by phunk

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you seem to be under the impression that frequency is a property of photons only. Is that your understanding?

what is the spectrum for all the other forces of nature? (strong, weak, em, gravity)

answer that and you have an argument, otherwise if energy is bound to fc (frequency*speed of light), then all of everything to include the word energy is of em

or you just dont know any better

phunk · 4th October 2010, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

what is the spectrum for all the other forces of nature? (strong, weak, em, gravity)

Do you know what the word spectrum means? The way you use it is odd.

Quote:

answer that and you have an argument, otherwise if energy is bound to fc (frequency*speed of light), then all of everything to include the word energy is of em

If you want to win yourself a Nobel prize, go ahead and show the relationship between gravity and EM.

Quote:

or you just dont know any better

Coming from you, that's hilarious.

drkitten · 4th October 2010, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

what is the spectrum for all the other forces of nature? (strong, weak, em, gravity)

They don't have one.

Quote:

answer that and you have an argument, otherwise if energy is bound to fc (frequency*speed of light), then all of everything to include the word energy is of em

But energy isn't bound to fc. For example the energy contained in a guitar string is related to the amplitude of the vibration, but has nothing to do with the speed of light. The energy contained in a gravitational potential is related to the mass, the height, and the local gravitational constant (mgh), and has no frequency component at all.

Bishadi · 4th October 2010, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by phunk

Do you know what the word spectrum means? The way you use it is odd.

it is the MEAURED range to the em group (light)

you said utter tings have a resonance, as i pose all have a foundation with em (even heat itself is based on em)

heck per the bohr analogy every electron that jumps to a higher shell must have 'a photon' to cause it.

Look up the quantum jump.

So causally speaking, unless you can share what the 'scale' (spectrum) is for the other forces of nature (gravity, weak, strong) then to drill down any phenomenon, that root cause will be?????

Quote:

If you want to win yourself a Nobel prize, go ahead and show the relationship between gravity and EM.

entanglement is the gravity between mass caused by the association of energy (light:em)

basic

Quote:

Coming from you, that's hilarious.

i am glad i could enable a giggle. (ie.. with words i affected your mass (did you need evidence of entanglement? how about a taste of reality?

words entangle mass)) and all spooky at that!

Bishadi · 4th October 2010, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by drkitten

They don't have one.

i know.

Quote:

But energy isn't bound to fc.

then what is plancks constant 'h'?

Quote:

For example the energy contained in a guitar string is related to the amplitude of the vibration,

but planck dont do amplitude so i guess you couldnt define that with any 'speed'. (giggle giggle)

Quote:

but has nothing to do with the speed of light. The energy contained in a gravitational potential is related to the mass, the

nor does the speed of light.

Quote:

height, and the local gravitational constant (mgh), and has no frequency component at all.

i know..............

phunk · 4th October 2010, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

it is the MEAURED range to the em group (light)

EM frequencies are one thing that can be described as a spectrum, not the only thing.

Quote:

you said utter tings have a resonance, as i pose all have a foundation with em (even heat itself is based on em)

heck per the bohr analogy every electron that jumps to a higher shell must have 'a photon' to cause it.

Look up the quantum jump.

So causally speaking, unless you can share what the 'scale' (spectrum) is for the other forces of nature (gravity, weak, strong) then to drill down any phenomenon, that root cause will be?????

Gravity's root cause is not EM as far as anyone knows yet. Yet gravitational effects, for example orbits, have frequencies and spectrum.

Quote:

entanglement is the gravity between mass caused by the association of energy (light:em)

basic

Jibberish is the collection of words you keep stringing together without knowing their meanings.

Quote:

i am glad i could enable a giggle. (ie.. with words i affected your mass (did you need evidence of entanglement? how about a taste of reality?

words entangle mass)) and all spooky at that!

You really need to get a beginner physics book and start reeducating yourself.

Reality Check · 4th October 2010, 01:13 PM

Phonon

Bishadi · 4th October 2010, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by phunk

EM frequencies are one thing that can be described as a spectrum, not the only thing.

but all that exists is based on the per se 4 forces of nature.

So which is which?

ie.... all that exists is bound to reality as the explanations are not the laws, the laws just offer a method of describing.

Quote:

Gravity's root cause is not EM as far as anyone knows yet.

that is a fair claim within this situation

Quote:

Yet gravitational effects, for example orbits, have frequencies and spectrum.

so what is causing it? occilations dont just happen in nature without an explanation and if the model fails at explaining, then honesty to the term 'unknown' is the only answer.

i see mercury progressing because it is being affected by the suns magnetosphere. (look up that orbit and find it is not following the laws)

Bishadi · 4th October 2010, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Reality Check

Phonon

why didnt you post up clips to share why the thread has the inquiry of whether a phonon is a photon?

A phonon is a quantum mechanical description of a special type of vibrational motion, known as normal modes in classical mechanics, in which a lattice uniformly oscillates at the same frequency. These normal modes are important because any arbitrary lattice vibration can be considered as a superposition of these elementary vibrations (cf. Fourier analysis). While normal modes are wave-like phenomena in classical mechanics, they have particle-like properties in the wave–particle duality description of quantum mechanics.

ie.... which force of nature is causing it?

X · 4th October 2010, 01:19 PM

Planck's constant concerns the relationship between energy and frequency of photons.

It does not in any way imply that energy or frequency can only come from photons.

Reality Check · 4th October 2010, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

why didnt you post up clips to share why the thread has the inquiry of whether a phonon is a photon?
...
ie.... which force of nature is causing it?

Why should I post clips when the answer is obvious to anyone who can read:
A phonon is not a photon.

(You can read, Bishadi

?)

Basically phonons are created by EM forces, i.e. the EM forces that create solids which then vibrate. Those vibrations are described in terms of phonons. But remember that these are quasiparticles, not real (or even virtual) particles. They are a concept used to get an approximate answer in quantum many-body problems.

Bishadi · 4th October 2010, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by X

Planck's constant concerns the relationship between energy and frequency of photons.

It does not in any way imply that energy or frequency can only come from photons.

it created the benchmark of the base unit of energy (the qubit)

and anything of science rendering the energy of a system is based on that 'h' if any drill down using a qm (qmc) etc frame.

the basis of most all physics is based on it

and the second is incorporated into the frame

http://www.chemteam.info/Chem-Histor...anck-1901.html

read it from planck, yourself

that is the 1901 pub in english, with the math and his reasoned adherance to 'the law'.

perhaps one day a few will actually read

Bishadi · 4th October 2010, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Reality Check

Why should I post clips when the answer is obvious to anyone who can read:
A phonon is not a photon.

(You can read, Bishadi

?)

Basically phonons are created by EM forces, i.e. the EM forces that create solids which then vibrate. Those vibrations are described in terms of phonons. But remember that these are quasiparticles, not real (or even virtual) particles. They are a concept used to get an approximate answer in quantum many-body problems.

photon are not 'created' but converted energy to a point of detection

photons are the base unit to measure no matter the wavelength.

motion is based on it

wiki........
In physics, electromotive force, or most commonly emf (seldom capitalized), or (occasionally) electromotance is "that which tends to cause current (actual electrons and ions) to flow."

my point; at the molecular level, the combining of emf is what causes motion to the large or small.

Reality Check · 4th October 2010, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

it created the benchmark of the base unit of energy (the qubit)

Your gibberish continues.
The Planck constant is a constant. It did not create anything. It just appears in the equations of quantum mechanics which leads to concepts such as the qubit.

The qubit is not the base unit of energy.

Reality Check · 4th October 2010, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

photon are not 'created' but converted energy to a point of detection

photons are the base unit to measure no matter the wavelength.
....

Photons are created despite your gibberish.

Bishadi · 4th October 2010, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Reality Check

Your gibberish continues.
The Planck constant is a constant. It did not create anything. It just appears in the equations of quantum mechanics which leads to concepts such as the qubit.

planck CREATED the belief and is like creating a religion to the ignorant (as if the bible is the word of god)

ie... i am not discounting the contrbution, i am observing evidence that the world aint flat and the fools just can't get over themselves.

Quote:

The qubit is not the base unit of energy.

let me guess, 'c' is absolute and that is the base unit (to you)?

Bishadi · 4th October 2010, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Reality Check

Photons are created despite your gibberish.

the magnetron converts electrical potential to chambers and the 2.45Ghz photon (state of energy) is created.

just like KLOS 95.5 is the photon of the radio stations transmition.

ever do the math to see how big that photon is?

Reality Check · 4th October 2010, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

the magnetron converts electrical potential to chambers and the 2.45Ghz photon (state of energy) is created.

just like KLOS 95.5 is the photon of the radio stations transmition.

ever do the math to see how big that photon is?

More gibberish from what is obviously a troll.

X · 4th October 2010, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Reality Check

More gibberish from what is obviously a troll.

It is starting to seem that way.

Bishadi: do you just look up big words and sting them together semi-randomly? Because in all honestly, that's what your posts read like. Either you are trolling or you are so fundamentally misinformed about basic physics that dialogue with you is impossible.

nescafe · 4th October 2010, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by X

It is starting to seem that way.

I read posts by schizophrenics that are more lucid than Bishadi's. He must have to work hard to be that incoherent.

Mikemcc · 4th October 2010, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

the magnetron converts electrical potential to chambers and the 2.45Ghz photon (state of energy) is created.

just like KLOS 95.5 is the photon of the radio stations transmition.

ever do the math to see how big that photon is?

WTF?

MattusMaximus · 4th October 2010, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

you finally said something. (the state of energy upon mass)

So is a life a phonon?

MattusMaximus · 4th October 2010, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

what is the spectrum for all the other forces of nature? (strong, weak, em, gravity)

All particles will exhibit a wavelength in keeping with wave-particle duality - this should address Bishadi's question, with the exception of gravity (since we don't have the particle of gravity - gravitons - "in hand" yet). Interestingly, though, we do have a wave view of gravity (gravitational waves) via general relativity; however, we have yet to directly detect gravity waves.

dafydd · 5th October 2010, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

what is the spectrum for all the other forces of nature? (strong, weak, em, gravity)

answer that and you have an argument, otherwise if energy is bound to fc (frequency*speed of light), then all of everything to include the word energy is of em

or you just dont know any better

You know bugger all but keep demonstrating your ignorance to us,it is very funny.

technoextreme · 5th October 2010, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Thanks

as i was not sure when it appears wiki is suggesting the phonon is based on an occilation (a frequency):

"In physics, a phonon is a quasiparticle characterized by the quantization of the modes of lattice vibrations of periodic, elastic crystal structures of solids.

The study of phonons is an important part of solid state physics because phonons play a major role in many of the physical properties of solids, including a material's thermal and electrical conductivities.

A phonon is a quantum mechanical description of a special type of vibrational motion, known as normal modes in classical mechanics, in which a lattice uniformly oscillates at the same frequency. "

maybe it is a gravity, or weak force, maybe the strong force just hummming away.....

i better go read the math before just the abstract.

Thanks you as your post was so helpful

A phonon is a quasiparticle. It doesn't exisist. Zip zadda zilch. You can't isolate a phonon because it is imaginary. A useful figment of the human mind.

Originally Posted by Reality Check

Basically phonons are created by EM forces, i.e. the EM forces that create solids which then vibrate. Those vibrations are described in terms of phonons. But remember that these are quasiparticles, not real (or even virtual) particles. They are a concept used to get an approximate answer in quantum many-body problems.

Actually quasiparticles are phenomeon that while aren't technically particles exhibit the properties of particles. The most commonly known one being the electron hole.

3rd October 2010, 08:02 AM	#1
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Buckyball; is the phonon a 'photon'? In this attached link they are trying to share that within a C-60 (buckyball), they can calculate the phonon energy vibrations and even considering the implications of another structure to be place within the BB at variatant energy states. The term to identify that 'vibration' is the phonon; is that phonon a photon? Heat? Abstract In a bucky ball, the atoms are all interconnected with each other through sp 2 bonding, thus resulting in exceptional strength. Apart from its hardness, the important fact is that for nanotechnology, useful dopant atoms can be placed inside the hollow fullerene ball. In order to utilize such properties and the strength of this molecule, it is of interest to study its stability under internal and external pressure. Therefore, in this paper, we made an attempt to study the stability of this molecule based on its binding strength. We have used the Tersoff [1,2] as well as Brenner potential [3] for the intramolecular interactions between the carbon atoms of a bucky ball and compared the two. Fulltext Preview http://www.springerlink.com/content/v648j0q578648678/

3rd October 2010, 08:20 AM	#2
Doctor Evil Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Back home Posts: 1,966	no
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3rd October 2010, 08:23 AM	#3
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,681	Phonon^WP
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3rd October 2010, 09:22 AM	#6
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	sp2 bonding, if this helps, appears to refer to the fact that carbon bonds via it's 2S (two of them in the 2nd S shell/energy level) and its 2P (two of them also - in the 2P shell/energy level) electrons. Which lets carbon make bonds with one to 4 other things (and the other things can be Carbon). No idea what that has to do with phonons - which is/are above my pay grade!! For what that means graphically, I strongly suggest hunting up: David's Whizzy Periodic Table (the 40 element version is much neater than the full PT version but both are out there). The Chem Collective PT is pretty neat also - it shows Hund's rule.
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3rd October 2010, 09:48 AM	#8
Olowkow Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,789	It pays to keep it simple. Quote: Originally Posted by Doctor Evil no Originally Posted by Bishadi Thanks i better go read the math before just the abstract. Thanks you as your post was so helpful
Olowkow Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,789	__________________ Our remedies oft in ourselves do lie, which we ascribe to heaven. --Shakespeare

3rd October 2010, 08:26 AM	#4
Jeff Corey New York Skeptic Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,794	http://physics.about.com/od/physicsmtop/g/phonon.htm

3rd October 2010, 08:26 AM	#5
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Originally Posted by Doctor Evil no Thanks as i was not sure when it appears wiki is suggesting the phonon is based on an occilation (a frequency): "In physics, a phonon is a quasiparticle characterized by the quantization of the modes of lattice vibrations of periodic, elastic crystal structures of solids. The study of phonons is an important part of solid state physics because phonons play a major role in many of the physical properties of solids, including a material's thermal and electrical conductivities. A phonon is a quantum mechanical description of a special type of vibrational motion, known as normal modes in classical mechanics, in which a lattice uniformly oscillates at the same frequency. " maybe it is a gravity, or weak force, maybe the strong force just hummming away..... i better go read the math before just the abstract. Thanks you as your post was so helpful

3rd October 2010, 09:29 AM	#7
drkitten Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Wits' End Posts: 21,647	Originally Posted by Bishadi Thanks as i was not sure when it appears wiki is suggesting the phonon is based on an occilation (a frequency): Lots of things oscillate without being photons. Guitar strings, for example.

3rd October 2010, 10:40 AM	#9
Madalch The Jester Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The wet coast. Posts: 8,694	Originally Posted by fuelair sp2 bonding, if this helps, appears to refer to the fact that carbon bonds via it's 2S (two of them in the 2nd S shell/energy level) and its 2P (two of them also - in the 2P shell/energy level) electrons. Which lets carbon make bonds with one to 4 other things (and the other things can be Carbon). No- sp2 bonding means that the single 2s orbital on carbon is hybridized or mixed with two of the 2p orbitals, allowing for single bonds to three neighboring atoms. There is one 2p orbital left over, and this overlaps with the 2p orbitals on the neighboring atoms to allow additional pi bonding.
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3rd October 2010, 10:41 AM	#10
gabeygoat Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hard Corvallis, Oregon Posts: 667	DUDE, my guitar strings are photons, but that's because I'm awesome.

3rd October 2010, 01:11 PM	#11
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Phonons don't have anything to do with gravity or the strong & weak nuclear forces. Phonons are quanta of acoustical vibrations in solids. The quantum of the strong force is gluons, the quanta of the weak force are W & Z bosons, and the (hypothetical) quantum of gravity is the graviton.
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4th October 2010, 07:19 AM	#12
C_Felix Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Right outside Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,036	No +1 I'm begining to think Bishadi's post are some type of perfomance art.

4th October 2010, 09:10 AM	#13
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Phonons don't have anything to do with gravity or the strong & weak nuclear forces. pb[Phonons are quanta of acoustical vibrations in solids[/b]. you finally said something. (the state of energy upon mass) So is a life a phonon?

4th October 2010, 09:24 AM	#14
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 24,531	Originally Posted by Bishadi So is a life a phonon? No.
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4th October 2010, 09:25 AM	#15
phunk Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,908	Originally Posted by Bishadi Thanks as i was not sure when it appears wiki is suggesting the phonon is based on an occilation (a frequency): "In physics, a phonon is a quasiparticle characterized by the quantization of the modes of lattice vibrations of periodic, elastic crystal structures of solids. The study of phonons is an important part of solid state physics because phonons play a major role in many of the physical properties of solids, including a material's thermal and electrical conductivities. A phonon is a quantum mechanical description of a special type of vibrational motion, known as normal modes in classical mechanics, in which a lattice uniformly oscillates at the same frequency. " maybe it is a gravity, or weak force, maybe the strong force just hummming away..... i better go read the math before just the abstract. Thanks you as your post was so helpful Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you seem to be under the impression that frequency is a property of photons only. Is that your understanding?
phunk Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,908

4th October 2010, 11:18 AM	#16
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Originally Posted by phunk Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you seem to be under the impression that frequency is a property of photons only. Is that your understanding? what is the spectrum for all the other forces of nature? (strong, weak, em, gravity) answer that and you have an argument, otherwise if energy is bound to fc (frequency*speed of light), then all of everything to include the word energy is of em or you just dont know any better

4th October 2010, 11:50 AM	#17
phunk Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,908	Originally Posted by Bishadi what is the spectrum for all the other forces of nature? (strong, weak, em, gravity) Do you know what the word spectrum means? The way you use it is odd. Quote: answer that and you have an argument, otherwise if energy is bound to fc (frequency*speed of light), then all of everything to include the word energy is of em If you want to win yourself a Nobel prize, go ahead and show the relationship between gravity and EM. Quote: or you just dont know any better Coming from you, that's hilarious.
phunk Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,908

4th October 2010, 12:00 PM	#18
drkitten Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Wits' End Posts: 21,647	Originally Posted by Bishadi what is the spectrum for all the other forces of nature? (strong, weak, em, gravity) They don't have one. Quote: answer that and you have an argument, otherwise if energy is bound to fc (frequencyspeed of light), then all of everything to include the word energy is of em But energy isn't* bound to fc. For example the energy contained in a guitar string is related to the amplitude of the vibration, but has nothing to do with the speed of light. The energy contained in a gravitational potential is related to the mass, the height, and the local gravitational constant (mgh), and has no frequency component at all.

4th October 2010, 12:09 PM	#19
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Originally Posted by phunk Do you know what the word spectrum means? The way you use it is odd. it is the MEAURED range to the em group (light) you said utter tings have a resonance, as i pose all have a foundation with em (even heat itself is based on em) heck per the bohr analogy every electron that jumps to a higher shell must have 'a photon' to cause it. Look up the quantum jump. So causally speaking, unless you can share what the 'scale' (spectrum) is for the other forces of nature (gravity, weak, strong) then to drill down any phenomenon, that root cause will be????? Quote: If you want to win yourself a Nobel prize, go ahead and show the relationship between gravity and EM. entanglement is the gravity between mass caused by the association of energy (light:em) basic Quote: Coming from you, that's hilarious. i am glad i could enable a giggle. (ie.. with words i affected your mass (did you need evidence of entanglement? how about a taste of reality? words entangle mass)) and all spooky at that!

4th October 2010, 12:12 PM	#20
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Originally Posted by drkitten They don't have one. i know. Quote: But energy isn't bound to fc. then what is plancks constant 'h'? Quote: For example the energy contained in a guitar string is related to the amplitude of the vibration, but planck dont do amplitude so i guess you couldnt define that with any 'speed'. (giggle giggle) Quote: but has nothing to do with the speed of light. The energy contained in a gravitational potential is related to the mass, the nor does the speed of light. Quote: height, and the local gravitational constant (mgh), and has no frequency component at all. i know..............

4th October 2010, 01:05 PM	#21
phunk Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,908	Originally Posted by Bishadi it is the MEAURED range to the em group (light) EM frequencies are one thing that can be described as a spectrum, not the only thing. Quote: you said utter tings have a resonance, as i pose all have a foundation with em (even heat itself is based on em) heck per the bohr analogy every electron that jumps to a higher shell must have 'a photon' to cause it. Look up the quantum jump. So causally speaking, unless you can share what the 'scale' (spectrum) is for the other forces of nature (gravity, weak, strong) then to drill down any phenomenon, that root cause will be????? Gravity's root cause is not EM as far as anyone knows yet. Yet gravitational effects, for example orbits, have frequencies and spectrum. Quote: entanglement is the gravity between mass caused by the association of energy (light:em) basic Jibberish is the collection of words you keep stringing together without knowing their meanings. Quote: i am glad i could enable a giggle. (ie.. with words i affected your mass (did you need evidence of entanglement? how about a taste of reality? words entangle mass)) and all spooky at that! You really need to get a beginner physics book and start reeducating yourself.
phunk Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,908

4th October 2010, 01:13 PM	#22
Reality Check Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 10,775	Phonon
	__________________ Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2

4th October 2010, 01:14 PM	#23
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Originally Posted by phunk EM frequencies are one thing that can be described as a spectrum, not the only thing. but all that exists is based on the per se 4 forces of nature. So which is which? ie.... all that exists is bound to reality as the explanations are not the laws, the laws just offer a method of describing. Quote: Gravity's root cause is not EM as far as anyone knows yet. that is a fair claim within this situation Quote: Yet gravitational effects, for example orbits, have frequencies and spectrum. so what is causing it? occilations dont just happen in nature without an explanation and if the model fails at explaining, then honesty to the term 'unknown' is the only answer. i see mercury progressing because it is being affected by the suns magnetosphere. (look up that orbit and find it is not following the laws)

4th October 2010, 01:16 PM	#24
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Originally Posted by Reality Check Phonon why didnt you post up clips to share why the thread has the inquiry of whether a phonon is a photon? A phonon is a quantum mechanical description of a special type of vibrational motion, known as normal modes in classical mechanics, in which a lattice uniformly oscillates at the same frequency. These normal modes are important because any arbitrary lattice vibration can be considered as a superposition of these elementary vibrations (cf. Fourier analysis). While normal modes are wave-like phenomena in classical mechanics, they have particle-like properties in the wave–particle duality description of quantum mechanics. ie.... which force of nature is causing it?

4th October 2010, 01:19 PM	#25
X Slide Rulez 4 Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Launching the army, waiting for Hok to commit her forces (then the moles strike...) Posts: 4,080	Planck's constant concerns the relationship between energy and frequency of photons. It does not in any way imply that energy or frequency can only come from photons.
	__________________ It is sad that this is necessary: Argumentum Ad Hominem: "You are wrong because you are ugly." Not Ad-Hom: "You are wrong and you are ugly." [X's posts are] ...as good as having 24 hours of Justin Bieber piped into your ears! - kmortis

4th October 2010, 01:44 PM	#26
Reality Check Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 10,775	Originally Posted by Bishadi why didnt you post up clips to share why the thread has the inquiry of whether a phonon is a photon? ... ie.... which force of nature is causing it? Why should I post clips when the answer is obvious to anyone who can read: A phonon is not a photon. (You can read, Bishadi ?) Basically phonons are created by EM forces, i.e. the EM forces that create solids which then vibrate. Those vibrations are described in terms of phonons. But remember that these are quasiparticles, not real (or even virtual) particles. They are a concept used to get an approximate answer in quantum many-body problems.
	__________________ Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2

4th October 2010, 01:45 PM	#27
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Originally Posted by X Planck's constant concerns the relationship between energy and frequency of photons. It does not in any way imply that energy or frequency can only come from photons. it created the benchmark of the base unit of energy (the qubit) and anything of science rendering the energy of a system is based on that 'h' if any drill down using a qm (qmc) etc frame. the basis of most all physics is based on it and the second is incorporated into the frame http://www.chemteam.info/Chem-Histor...anck-1901.html read it from planck, yourself that is the 1901 pub in english, with the math and his reasoned adherance to 'the law'. perhaps one day a few will actually read

4th October 2010, 01:53 PM	#28
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Originally Posted by Reality Check Why should I post clips when the answer is obvious to anyone who can read: A phonon is not a photon. (You can read, Bishadi ?) Basically phonons are created by EM forces, i.e. the EM forces that create solids which then vibrate. Those vibrations are described in terms of phonons. But remember that these are quasiparticles, not real (or even virtual) particles. They are a concept used to get an approximate answer in quantum many-body problems. photon are not 'created' but converted energy to a point of detection photons are the base unit to measure no matter the wavelength. motion is based on it wiki........ In physics, electromotive force, or most commonly emf (seldom capitalized), or (occasionally) electromotance is "that which tends to cause current (actual electrons and ions) to flow." my point; at the molecular level, the combining of emf is what causes motion to the large or small.

4th October 2010, 01:53 PM	#29
Reality Check Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 10,775	Originally Posted by Bishadi it created the benchmark of the base unit of energy (the qubit) Your gibberish continues. The Planck constant is a constant. It did not create anything. It just appears in the equations of quantum mechanics which leads to concepts such as the qubit. The qubit is not the base unit of energy.
	__________________ Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2

4th October 2010, 01:55 PM	#30
Reality Check Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 10,775	Originally Posted by Bishadi photon are not 'created' but converted energy to a point of detection photons are the base unit to measure no matter the wavelength. .... Photons are created despite your gibberish.
	__________________ Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2

4th October 2010, 02:01 PM	#31
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Originally Posted by Reality Check Your gibberish continues. The Planck constant is a constant. It did not create anything. It just appears in the equations of quantum mechanics which leads to concepts such as the qubit. planck CREATED the belief and is like creating a religion to the ignorant (as if the bible is the word of god) ie... i am not discounting the contrbution, i am observing evidence that the world aint flat and the fools just can't get over themselves. Quote: The qubit is not the base unit of energy. let me guess, 'c' is absolute and that is the base unit (to you)?

4th October 2010, 02:03 PM	#32
Bishadi Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2,279	Originally Posted by Reality Check Photons are created despite your gibberish. the magnetron converts electrical potential to chambers and the 2.45Ghz photon (state of energy) is created. just like KLOS 95.5 is the photon of the radio stations transmition. ever do the math to see how big that photon is?

4th October 2010, 02:07 PM	#33
Reality Check Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 10,775	Originally Posted by Bishadi the magnetron converts electrical potential to chambers and the 2.45Ghz photon (state of energy) is created. just like KLOS 95.5 is the photon of the radio stations transmition. ever do the math to see how big that photon is? More gibberish from what is obviously a troll.
	__________________ Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2

4th October 2010, 02:25 PM	#34
X Slide Rulez 4 Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Launching the army, waiting for Hok to commit her forces (then the moles strike...) Posts: 4,080	Originally Posted by Reality Check More gibberish from what is obviously a troll. It is starting to seem that way. Bishadi: do you just look up big words and sting them together semi-randomly? Because in all honestly, that's what your posts read like. Either you are trolling or you are so fundamentally misinformed about basic physics that dialogue with you is impossible.
	__________________ It is sad that this is necessary: Argumentum Ad Hominem: "You are wrong because you are ugly." Not Ad-Hom: "You are wrong and you are ugly." [X's posts are] ...as good as having 24 hours of Justin Bieber piped into your ears! - kmortis

4th October 2010, 02:57 PM	#35
nescafe Caffeinated Beverage Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Just above the coffeemaker Posts: 864	Originally Posted by X It is starting to seem that way. I read posts by schizophrenics that are more lucid than Bishadi's. He must have to work hard to be that incoherent.
	__________________ If only there were brain condoms for those of us who practice unsafe lex. -- Complexity