Many Tea Partiers part of religious right - Page 3

AlBell · 8th October 2010, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Does Al Bell have ANY arguments except badmouthing Liberals and Moderates?

Like the 'arguments': I have a high IQ, I'm an atheist, I agree with the loony-left social agenda, everyone who supports the Tea Party is a dummy'? Those arguments?

It's easy. If you like the way the US is going and want more of it, vote for the Democrat, or if Republicans listened to advice touted here and nominated a RINO, either one.

MaGZ · 8th October 2010, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Actually, let me open up my challenge to any supporter of the Tea Party here:

I have yet to hear of such an individual. In fact, while there are undoubtedly those within the TP rank-and-file who fit this mold, I doubt that any current leaders in the movement fit this description. Maybe a year ago, but not anymore.

I'm willing to be proven wrong. Proceed...

Newt Gingrich is probably secular in his views and seems to be making an appeal to the TP.

MaGZ · 8th October 2010, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

So, for the record, you can't name a secular leader within the Tea Party movement. Probably because they don't exist - perhaps they did in the beginning of the movement, but since the Religious Right has started to take over the Tea Party those folks have been shoved aside.

Glad we got that out of the way, AlBell.

Any other Tea Party supporters here want to take a crack at my challenge in post #40? Where are the secular Tea Party leaders?

I would like to see a list of Jewish Tea Party activists.

thaiboxerken · 8th October 2010, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by AlBell

I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere except by you, here.

Oh they don't officially say it. However, how welcome could a Muslim be in a tent full of people who think Islam is a terrorist's religion?

AlBell · 8th October 2010, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Oh they don't officially say it. However, how welcome could a Muslim be in a tent full of people who think Islam is a terrorist's religion?

As individuals, as welcome as anyone else I'd suspect.

johnny karate · 8th October 2010, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Oh they don't officially say it. However, how welcome could a Muslim be in a tent full of people who think Islam is a terrorist's religion?

Most of the racists and bigots in the Tea Party are smart enough to not publicly admit to being racists and bigots, so this standard by which we have to quote them proclaiming their bigotry is ridiculous.

But if examples are needed: I submit one Carl Paladino, Tea Party candidate for governor of New York. Based on the fact that he wants to basically render lower Manhattan an Islam-free zone coupled with his documented racist attitude towards black people, I think it's safe to surmise Paladino is not a particular fan of the Muslims.

And even though his racism was made public, and he's campaigning on his Islamophobia, neither the Tea Party leadership who advocates his campaign nor the Tea Party members who voted for him seem to have a problem with either. From that we can easily surmise that the so-called Tea Party "big tent" isn't exactly Muslim-friendly.

johnny karate · 8th October 2010, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by AlBell

As individuals, as welcome as anyone else I'd suspect.

Unless, of course, this Tea Party "tent" happens to be located near Ground Zero.

AlBell · 8th October 2010, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

From that we can easily surmise that the so-called Tea Party "big tent" isn't exactly Muslim-friendly.

And in reality, your (you and the mouse in your pocket for the "we") surmises and a cup of warm spit have about the same value.

But they are surely impressing the Kewl Kidz Klique here.

bikerdruid · 8th October 2010, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

And yet 47% of the Tea Partiers consider themselves "part of the religious right or conservative Christian movement." cite

Originally Posted by AlBell

And in reality, your (you and the mouse in your pocket for the "we") surmises and a cup of warm spit have about the same value.

But they are surely impressing the Kewl Kidz Klique here.

are you honestly trying to tell us that the tea party is 'muslim firendly'?

AlBell · 8th October 2010, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Originally Posted by AlBell

Indeed. All of those defacto Democrats should openly declare themselves so.

Boy, that Big Tent sure folded in a hurry.

Speaking of RINOs.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...DDLETopOpinion

Crist, just another McCain wannabe, a Democrat in RINO clothing.

johnny karate · 8th October 2010, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by AlBell

And in reality, your (you and the mouse in your pocket for the "we") surmises and a cup of warm spit have about the same value.

But they are surely impressing the Kewl Kidz Klique here.

You must have missed the part where I made an argument to back up my conclusion. I surmise this by the fact that you made no attempt to address it, and merely jumped right to the part in which you clumsily insult me.

Piggy · 8th October 2010, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by AlBell

Crist, just another McCain wannabe, a Democrat in RINO clothing.

This is exactly what I was talking about.

This radical fringe presumes to have the authority to decide what is and is not "Republican".

Despite the fact that they have just gone out and screwed the party by pushing unelectable (and, quite frankly, unqualified) candidates through the primaries.

When they crash and burn, these guys won't blame themselves. Oh, no. They'll blame the "RINOs" for failing to convert to the lunatic fringe.

The sooner they split off into their own nutjob party and get out of our hair, the better.

bikerdruid · 8th October 2010, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

are you honestly trying to tell us that the tea party is 'muslim firendly'?

hmmm.....i thought not....

Accidental Martyr · 8th October 2010, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by AlBell

The Tea Party is a big tent; room for everyone and all welcome.

How many black, Muslim, Hispanic and homosexual friends do you hang out with in your "big tent"?

ZirconBlue · 8th October 2010, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Accidental Martyr

How many black, Muslim, Hispanic and homosexual friends do you hang out with in your "big tent"?

What happens at the tea party, stays at the tea party.

The Central Scrutinizer · 8th October 2010, 09:04 PM

I'm enjoying listening to the crickets.

MattusMaximus · 9th October 2010, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I'm enjoying listening to the crickets.

Well, to be fair, MaGZ mentioned that he/she thought Newt Gingrich was a good example of a secular TP person. Though, in light of this information about Gingrich seeking to tack hard-right on religious matters, I think that hardly qualifies him as secular.

And yes, those crickets are getting loud, aren't they?

fuelair · 9th October 2010, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Hmmm... is this a surprise to anyone?

Okay, so we're going to make government "smaller" and "get it out of your life" by... allowing it to stick its nose into the most intimate aspects of your life. But since it's in the name of Jesus, it's okay I suppose.

Of course not. It has always been clear they are a large conflagration of flaming hemmorhoids.

Neally · 10th October 2010, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

And yes, those crickets are getting loud, aren't they?

I imagine all the TP leaders believe the sky is blue. That doesn't mean they will make it part of the platform. If you have any real evidence that significant changes are being made to the platform to incorporate social issues, do post.

Arrow · 10th October 2010, 08:46 AM

I guess not all tea party members of the right. Russ Feingold seems to be trying to align himself with the tea party movement.

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/10/10/russ-feingold/

thaiboxerken · 10th October 2010, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Neally

I imagine all the TP leaders believe the sky is blue. That doesn't mean they will make it part of the platform. If you have any real evidence that significant changes are being made to the platform to incorporate social issues, do post.

Where would the official platform be found at?

Neally · 10th October 2010, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Where would the official platform be found at?

The TP is made up of many individual groups. Pick the platform of any number of the groups and show me where they have changed their platform to incorporate the social issues of the religious right.

MattusMaximus · 10th October 2010, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Neally

I imagine all the TP leaders believe the sky is blue. That doesn't mean they will make it part of the platform. If you have any real evidence that significant changes are being made to the platform to incorporate social issues, do post.

I have already posted that information, three times now, in fact. And you dismissed it by moving goalposts.

Incidentally, would you care to name a single, prominent Tea Party leader who is secular and not catering to the religious rightwingers?

MattusMaximus · 10th October 2010, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Neally

The TP is made up of many individual groups. Pick the platform of any number of the groups and show me where they have changed their platform to incorporate the social issues of the religious right.

Try reading the OP

Arisia · 10th October 2010, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Most of the racists and bigots in the Tea Party are smart enough to not publicly admit to being racists and bigots, so this standard by which we have to quote them proclaiming their bigotry is ridiculous.

But if examples are needed: I submit one Carl Paladino, Tea Party candidate for governor of New York. Based on the fact that he wants to basically render lower Manhattan an Islam-free zone coupled with his documented racist attitude towards black people, I think it's safe to surmise Paladino is not a particular fan of the Muslims.

And even though his racism was made public, and he's campaigning on his Islamophobia, neither the Tea Party leadership who advocates his campaign nor the Tea Party members who voted for him seem to have a problem with either. From that we can easily surmise that the so-called Tea Party "big tent" isn't exactly Muslim-friendly.

Was driving through New York this weekend, east of Albany up to the Glens Falls area, so mostly rural, about 120 miles total on smaller local roads. Plenty of Cuomo signs in people's yards, but not a single Paladino sign.

MaGZ · 10th October 2010, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Arisia

Was driving through New York this weekend, east of Albany up to the Glens Falls area, so mostly rural, about 120 miles total on smaller local roads. Plenty of Cuomo signs in people's yards, but not a single Paladino sign.

Is that in the Jewish Catskills?

mhaze · 10th October 2010, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Accidental Martyr

How many black, Muslim, Hispanic and homosexual friends do you hang out with in your "big tent"?

How many black, Muslim Hispanic homosexuals do you hang out with? Why are you prejudiced against Native American transexual midgets?

Neally · 10th October 2010, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

I have already posted that information, three times now, in fact. And you dismissed it by moving goalposts.

No goalposts were moved, I'm awaiting support of your claim in the OP:

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Okay, so we're going to make government "smaller" and "get it out of your life" by... allowing it to stick its nose into the most intimate aspects of your life.

You have yet to show the change in any of the TP group's platforms.

Quote:

Incidentally, would you care to name a single, prominent Tea Party leader who is secular and not catering to the religious rightwingers?

Already responded to here. Now maybe you'd like to respond to my question from that post.

Piggy · 11th October 2010, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by Neally

You have yet to show the change in any of the TP group's platforms.

But the OP wasn't about a platform. It was about the "shared views" between Tea Party members and the religious right.

(I know a lot of TP members around here, for instance, and the vast majority are fundamentalist evangelicals who oppose abortion rights, believe the Founders meant this to be a "Christian nation", and so forth. And that's meant as an example, btw, not proof.)

In other words, even though the TP groups are focused on so-called "smaller government" and lower taxes and an imagined "return" to Constitutional government, their members also tend to support a religious-right stance on other issues. Which means they'd be likely to support candidates who would vote that way, as well.

So I think the request to name TP leaders who do not also support the religious right is a valid one.

Piggy · 11th October 2010, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Neally

Already responded to here.

Responded to, but in a non-sensical way.

No one debates about the color of the sky, and nobody votes about the color of the sky.

Why can't you just admit that what the above-cited TP leader said is true: Although the TP groups focus on small gov't, taxes, and the Constitution, you would not see them supporting a candidate who was in favor of gay marriage or abortion rights.

Neally · 11th October 2010, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Piggy

But the OP wasn't about a platform. It was about the "shared views" between Tea Party members and the religious right.

And my response is that until the TP platforms are changed, any "shared views" are irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Piggy

Responded to, but in a non-sensical way.

No one debates about the color of the sky, and nobody votes about the color of the sky.

If the majority of leaders of the Dems were atheist, that doesn't mean the party will incorporate atheism into their platform.

Get back to me when you have any real support for the claim that the TP is incorporating social/religious issues into their platforms.

Piggy · 11th October 2010, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Neally

And my response is that until the TP platforms are changed, any "shared views" are irrelevant.

They are certainly not irrelevant to the OP, which is about precisely that topic, and not about platforms.

If you would like to discuss platforms, you should probably open a new thread on that subject.

Piggy · 11th October 2010, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Neally

If the majority of leaders of the Dems were atheist, that doesn't mean the party will incorporate atheism into their platform.

Get back to me when you have any real support for the claim that the TP is incorporating social/religious issues into their platforms.

You may start a new thread on platforms any time you wish.

But let's take that example....

If the majority of Dems -- leaders and rank-and-file -- were atheist, then it would be silly to claim that this viewpoint would have no influence on how they vote.

If that were the case, then we could expect that religious objections to, say, gay marriage or abortion or teaching evolution would be absent from their actual voting records.

Regardless of whether or not they wrote it into their platform (which I imagine they would not) it would affect their votes because it informs their worldview.

AlBell · 11th October 2010, 09:32 AM

It's likely in my mind that candidates who are in favor of gay marriage or abortion or other secular-stance issues would not receive Tea Party member votes, and if those stances ever became part of any formal Tea Party platform, I'd no longer consider it to be part of the Tea Party.

Everybody happy now?

The usual Democrat's plank covers those issues, and if they mean more to you than fiscal conservatism and smaller govt, vote Democrat.

Neally · 11th October 2010, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Piggy

You may start a new thread on platforms any time you wish.

No new thread needed. The statement in the OP remains unsupported:

Quote:

Okay, so we're going to make government "smaller" and "get it out of your life" by... allowing it to stick its nose into the most intimate aspects of your life.

Piggy · 11th October 2010, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Neally

No new thread needed. The statement in the OP remains unsupported:

Well, if TP members themselves admit that they orient that way on those issues, and no one can point to any TP leaders or candidates who do not, then yeah, it's pretty safe to conclude that there's a gap here between their stance on "limited government", on the one hand, and support for gov't restrictions in the social arena, on the other.

If you really are for the most limited gov't possible, then you're pro gay marriage, pro abortion rights, got no problem w/ the Muslim cultural center in Manhattan, and against gov't supported displays of religion such as displays of the Ten Commandments and prayer in schools and at gov't meetings.

Those points, however, don't line up w/ the TP's stated ideals re limited gov't.

AlBell · 11th October 2010, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Piggy

Those points, however, don't line up w/ the TP's stated ideals re limited gov't.

Perhaps your definition of 'limited govt' isn't their definition? But I think you already knew that.

bikerdruid · 11th October 2010, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by AlBell

Perhaps your definition of 'limited govt' isn't their definition? But I think you already knew that.

right-wingnuts are always in favour of 'limited government' until that 'freedom' allows something that they don't agree with.

Neally · 11th October 2010, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Piggy

Those points, however, don't line up w/ the TP's stated ideals re limited gov't.

And those points aren't part of the TP platform.

johnny karate · 11th October 2010, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by AlBell

Perhaps your definition of 'limited govt' isn't their definition? But I think you already knew that.

I refer to the dictionary when defining words. What does the Tea Party use?

8th October 2010, 11:59 AM	#81
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,487	Originally Posted by dudalb Does Al Bell have ANY arguments except badmouthing Liberals and Moderates? Like the 'arguments': I have a high IQ, I'm an atheist, I agree with the loony-left social agenda, everyone who supports the Tea Party is a dummy'? Those arguments? It's easy. If you like the way the US is going and want more of it, vote for the Democrat, or if Republicans listened to advice touted here and nominated a RINO, either one.
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,487	__________________ "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." M. Thatcher, Economics: Share The Wealth. Obamanomics: Share The Pain. Important things in life–beauty, grace, redemption, compassion, loyalty, love–are beyond the reach of reason. Which doesn’t make them any less real.

8th October 2010, 01:30 PM	#82
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Actually, let me open up my challenge to any supporter of the Tea Party here: I have yet to hear of such an individual. In fact, while there are undoubtedly those within the TP rank-and-file who fit this mold, I doubt that any current leaders in the movement fit this description. Maybe a year ago, but not anymore. I'm willing to be proven wrong. Proceed... Newt Gingrich is probably secular in his views and seems to be making an appeal to the TP.
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

8th October 2010, 01:38 PM	#83
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus So, for the record, you can't name a secular leader within the Tea Party movement. Probably because they don't exist - perhaps they did in the beginning of the movement, but since the Religious Right has started to take over the Tea Party those folks have been shoved aside. Glad we got that out of the way, AlBell. Any other Tea Party supporters here want to take a crack at my challenge in post #40? Where are the secular Tea Party leaders? I would like to see a list of Jewish Tea Party activists.
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

8th October 2010, 02:50 PM	#84
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,947	Originally Posted by AlBell I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere except by you, here. Oh they don't officially say it. However, how welcome could a Muslim be in a tent full of people who think Islam is a terrorist's religion?
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

8th October 2010, 02:56 PM	#85
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,487	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Oh they don't officially say it. However, how welcome could a Muslim be in a tent full of people who think Islam is a terrorist's religion? As individuals, as welcome as anyone else I'd suspect.
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,487

8th October 2010, 03:10 PM	#86
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,819	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Oh they don't officially say it. However, how welcome could a Muslim be in a tent full of people who think Islam is a terrorist's religion? Most of the racists and bigots in the Tea Party are smart enough to not publicly admit to being racists and bigots, so this standard by which we have to quote them proclaiming their bigotry is ridiculous. But if examples are needed: I submit one Carl Paladino, Tea Party candidate for governor of New York. Based on the fact that he wants to basically render lower Manhattan an Islam-free zone coupled with his documented racist attitude towards black people, I think it's safe to surmise Paladino is not a particular fan of the Muslims. And even though his racism was made public, and he's campaigning on his Islamophobia, neither the Tea Party leadership who advocates his campaign nor the Tea Party members who voted for him seem to have a problem with either. From that we can easily surmise that the so-called Tea Party "big tent" isn't exactly Muslim-friendly.
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8th October 2010, 03:11 PM	#87
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,819	Originally Posted by AlBell As individuals, as welcome as anyone else I'd suspect. Unless, of course, this Tea Party "tent" happens to be located near Ground Zero.
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8th October 2010, 03:40 PM	#88
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,487	Originally Posted by johnny karate From that we can easily surmise that the so-called Tea Party "big tent" isn't exactly Muslim-friendly. And in reality, your (you and the mouse in your pocket for the "we") surmises and a cup of warm spit have about the same value. But they are surely impressing the Kewl Kidz Klique here.
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,487	__________________ "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." M. Thatcher, Economics: Share The Wealth. Obamanomics: Share The Pain. Important things in life–beauty, grace, redemption, compassion, loyalty, love–are beyond the reach of reason. Which doesn’t make them any less real.

8th October 2010, 03:43 PM	#89
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by Ladewig And yet 47% of the Tea Partiers consider themselves "part of the religious right or conservative Christian movement." cite Originally Posted by AlBell And in reality, your (you and the mouse in your pocket for the "we") surmises and a cup of warm spit have about the same value. But they are surely impressing the Kewl Kidz Klique here. are you honestly trying to tell us that the tea party is 'muslim firendly'?
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8th October 2010, 04:09 PM	#90
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,487	Originally Posted by SezMe Originally Posted by AlBell Indeed. All of those defacto Democrats should openly declare themselves so. Boy, that Big Tent sure folded in a hurry. Speaking of RINOs. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...DDLETopOpinion Crist, just another McCain wannabe, a Democrat in RINO clothing.
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,487	__________________ "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." M. Thatcher, Economics: Share The Wealth. Obamanomics: Share The Pain. Important things in life–beauty, grace, redemption, compassion, loyalty, love–are beyond the reach of reason. Which doesn’t make them any less real.

8th October 2010, 05:17 PM	#91
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,819	Originally Posted by AlBell And in reality, your (you and the mouse in your pocket for the "we") surmises and a cup of warm spit have about the same value. But they are surely impressing the Kewl Kidz Klique here. You must have missed the part where I made an argument to back up my conclusion. I surmise this by the fact that you made no attempt to address it, and merely jumped right to the part in which you clumsily insult me.
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8th October 2010, 07:45 PM	#92
Piggy Unlicensed street skeptic Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ralph's side of the island Posts: 15,202	Originally Posted by AlBell Crist, just another McCain wannabe, a Democrat in RINO clothing. This is exactly what I was talking about. This radical fringe presumes to have the authority to decide what is and is not "Republican". Despite the fact that they have just gone out and screwed the party by pushing unelectable (and, quite frankly, unqualified) candidates through the primaries. When they crash and burn, these guys won't blame themselves. Oh, no. They'll blame the "RINOs" for failing to convert to the lunatic fringe. The sooner they split off into their own nutjob party and get out of our hair, the better.
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8th October 2010, 07:53 PM	#93
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by bikerdruid are you honestly trying to tell us that the tea party is 'muslim firendly'? hmmm.....i thought not....
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8th October 2010, 08:09 PM	#94
Accidental Martyr Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry. Posts: 1,852	Originally Posted by AlBell The Tea Party is a big tent; room for everyone and all welcome. How many black, Muslim, Hispanic and homosexual friends do you hang out with in your "big tent"?
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8th October 2010, 08:32 PM	#95
ZirconBlue Sole Survivor of L-Town Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wilson, North Carolina, USA, Earth Posts: 11,311	Originally Posted by Accidental Martyr How many black, Muslim, Hispanic and homosexual friends do you hang out with in your "big tent"? What happens at the tea party, stays at the tea party.
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8th October 2010, 09:04 PM	#96
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,264	I'm enjoying listening to the crickets.
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9th October 2010, 06:10 PM	#97
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I'm enjoying listening to the crickets. Well, to be fair, MaGZ mentioned that he/she thought Newt Gingrich was a good example of a secular TP person. Though, in light of this information about Gingrich seeking to tack hard-right on religious matters, I think that hardly qualifies him as secular. And yes, those crickets are getting loud, aren't they?
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9th October 2010, 07:23 PM	#98
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Hmmm... is this a surprise to anyone? Okay, so we're going to make government "smaller" and "get it out of your life" by... allowing it to stick its nose into the most intimate aspects of your life. But since it's in the name of Jesus, it's okay I suppose. Of course not. It has always been clear they are a large conflagration of flaming hemmorhoids.
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10th October 2010, 08:24 AM	#99
Neally Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,068	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus And yes, those crickets are getting loud, aren't they? I imagine all the TP leaders believe the sky is blue. That doesn't mean they will make it part of the platform. If you have any real evidence that significant changes are being made to the platform to incorporate social issues, do post.
Neally Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,068

10th October 2010, 08:46 AM	#100
Arrow Thinker Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 147	I guess not all tea party members of the right. Russ Feingold seems to be trying to align himself with the tea party movement. http://michellemalkin.com/2010/10/10/russ-feingold/
Arrow Thinker Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 147

10th October 2010, 10:38 AM	#101
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,947	Originally Posted by Neally I imagine all the TP leaders believe the sky is blue. That doesn't mean they will make it part of the platform. If you have any real evidence that significant changes are being made to the platform to incorporate social issues, do post. Where would the official platform be found at?
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

10th October 2010, 02:46 PM	#102
Neally Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,068	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Where would the official platform be found at? The TP is made up of many individual groups. Pick the platform of any number of the groups and show me where they have changed their platform to incorporate the social issues of the religious right.
Neally Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,068

10th October 2010, 05:20 PM	#103
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by Neally I imagine all the TP leaders believe the sky is blue. That doesn't mean they will make it part of the platform. If you have any real evidence that significant changes are being made to the platform to incorporate social issues, do post. I have already posted that information, three times now, in fact. And you dismissed it by moving goalposts. Incidentally, would you care to name a single, prominent Tea Party leader who is secular and not catering to the religious rightwingers?
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10th October 2010, 05:21 PM	#104
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by Neally The TP is made up of many individual groups. Pick the platform of any number of the groups and show me where they have changed their platform to incorporate the social issues of the religious right. Try reading the OP
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10th October 2010, 05:56 PM	#105
Arisia Muse Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: 495 & MassPike, MA Posts: 584	Originally Posted by johnny karate Most of the racists and bigots in the Tea Party are smart enough to not publicly admit to being racists and bigots, so this standard by which we have to quote them proclaiming their bigotry is ridiculous. But if examples are needed: I submit one Carl Paladino, Tea Party candidate for governor of New York. Based on the fact that he wants to basically render lower Manhattan an Islam-free zone coupled with his documented racist attitude towards black people, I think it's safe to surmise Paladino is not a particular fan of the Muslims. And even though his racism was made public, and he's campaigning on his Islamophobia, neither the Tea Party leadership who advocates his campaign nor the Tea Party members who voted for him seem to have a problem with either. From that we can easily surmise that the so-called Tea Party "big tent" isn't exactly Muslim-friendly. Was driving through New York this weekend, east of Albany up to the Glens Falls area, so mostly rural, about 120 miles total on smaller local roads. Plenty of Cuomo signs in people's yards, but not a single Paladino sign.

10th October 2010, 06:59 PM	#106
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Originally Posted by Arisia Was driving through New York this weekend, east of Albany up to the Glens Falls area, so mostly rural, about 120 miles total on smaller local roads. Plenty of Cuomo signs in people's yards, but not a single Paladino sign. Is that in the Jewish Catskills?
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10th October 2010, 07:39 PM	#107
mhaze Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woo*(+-1.10)^20=AGWwoo Posts: 15,384	Originally Posted by Accidental Martyr How many black, Muslim, Hispanic and homosexual friends do you hang out with in your "big tent"? How many black, Muslim Hispanic homosexuals do you hang out with? Why are you prejudiced against Native American transexual midgets?
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10th October 2010, 09:41 PM	#108
Neally Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,068	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus I have already posted that information, three times now, in fact. And you dismissed it by moving goalposts. No goalposts were moved, I'm awaiting support of your claim in the OP: Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Okay, so we're going to make government "smaller" and "get it out of your life" by... allowing it to stick its nose into the most intimate aspects of your life. You have yet to show the change in any of the TP group's platforms. Quote: Incidentally, would you care to name a single, prominent Tea Party leader who is secular and not catering to the religious rightwingers? Already responded to here. Now maybe you'd like to respond to my question from that post.
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11th October 2010, 05:26 AM	#109
Piggy Unlicensed street skeptic Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ralph's side of the island Posts: 15,202	Originally Posted by Neally You have yet to show the change in any of the TP group's platforms. But the OP wasn't about a platform. It was about the "shared views" between Tea Party members and the religious right. (I know a lot of TP members around here, for instance, and the vast majority are fundamentalist evangelicals who oppose abortion rights, believe the Founders meant this to be a "Christian nation", and so forth. And that's meant as an example, btw, not proof.) In other words, even though the TP groups are focused on so-called "smaller government" and lower taxes and an imagined "return" to Constitutional government, their members also tend to support a religious-right stance on other issues. Which means they'd be likely to support candidates who would vote that way, as well. So I think the request to name TP leaders who do not also support the religious right is a valid one.
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11th October 2010, 05:31 AM	#110
Piggy Unlicensed street skeptic Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ralph's side of the island Posts: 15,202	Originally Posted by Neally Already responded to here. Responded to, but in a non-sensical way. No one debates about the color of the sky, and nobody votes about the color of the sky. Why can't you just admit that what the above-cited TP leader said is true: Although the TP groups focus on small gov't, taxes, and the Constitution, you would not see them supporting a candidate who was in favor of gay marriage or abortion rights.
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11th October 2010, 08:19 AM	#111
Neally Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,068	Originally Posted by Piggy But the OP wasn't about a platform. It was about the "shared views" between Tea Party members and the religious right. And my response is that until the TP platforms are changed, any "shared views" are irrelevant. Originally Posted by Piggy Responded to, but in a non-sensical way. No one debates about the color of the sky, and nobody votes about the color of the sky. If the majority of leaders of the Dems were atheist, that doesn't mean the party will incorporate atheism into their platform. Get back to me when you have any real support for the claim that the TP is incorporating social/religious issues into their platforms.
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11th October 2010, 09:26 AM	#112
Piggy Unlicensed street skeptic Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ralph's side of the island Posts: 15,202	Originally Posted by Neally And my response is that until the TP platforms are changed, any "shared views" are irrelevant. They are certainly not irrelevant to the OP, which is about precisely that topic, and not about platforms. If you would like to discuss platforms, you should probably open a new thread on that subject.
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11th October 2010, 09:29 AM	#113
Piggy Unlicensed street skeptic Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ralph's side of the island Posts: 15,202	Originally Posted by Neally If the majority of leaders of the Dems were atheist, that doesn't mean the party will incorporate atheism into their platform. Get back to me when you have any real support for the claim that the TP is incorporating social/religious issues into their platforms. You may start a new thread on platforms any time you wish. But let's take that example.... If the majority of Dems -- leaders and rank-and-file -- were atheist, then it would be silly to claim that this viewpoint would have no influence on how they vote. If that were the case, then we could expect that religious objections to, say, gay marriage or abortion or teaching evolution would be absent from their actual voting records. Regardless of whether or not they wrote it into their platform (which I imagine they would not) it would affect their votes because it informs their worldview.
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11th October 2010, 09:32 AM	#114
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,487	It's likely in my mind that candidates who are in favor of gay marriage or abortion or other secular-stance issues would not receive Tea Party member votes, and if those stances ever became part of any formal Tea Party platform, I'd no longer consider it to be part of the Tea Party. Everybody happy now? The usual Democrat's plank covers those issues, and if they mean more to you than fiscal conservatism and smaller govt, vote Democrat.
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11th October 2010, 09:35 AM	#115
Neally Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,068	Originally Posted by Piggy You may start a new thread on platforms any time you wish. No new thread needed. The statement in the OP remains unsupported: Quote: Okay, so we're going to make government "smaller" and "get it out of your life" by... allowing it to stick its nose into the most intimate aspects of your life.
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