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Tags Nazi analogies , Tea Party movement

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Old 17th October 2010, 11:33 AM   #1
Magyar
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tea party / nazi party

NO, I am not making racist anti-Semite comparisons here.


This new exhibit opening in Berlin and it got me thinking.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/16/wo...l?pagewanted=1
Especially beginning with this quote-

“As a person, Hitler was a very ordinary man. He was nothing without the people.”

In this as well as his/Nazi parties populist appeal has many similarities with the Tea Party and it's debutantes like Palin.

The kind of people -( no I am not talking about the racism part here) the "disenfranchised, mostly uneducated in the sense that the vast majority of them like the Tea Party forks today, have neither the temperament or the intellect to try to understand the complex issues;
economy, immigration, unemployment, science and religion
So when a "messiah" comes along who has the ambition, and sadly nothing else, these people are willing to surrender reason and let themselves be led by the nose to anywhere.

Several books have been written and all kinds of statistics bear out that the vast majority of right wing voters vote against their self interest. While one can argue that they are doing this for magnanimous reasons from listening to them it's far more likely that they are bamboozled by the likes of Limbaugh and company.

Just like in the 30's there is a segment of today's powerful who are bending over backwards and against all logic to get Palin elected http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
or at least to be in a position of power and make every excuse conceivable to explain here stupidity and incompetence.

“Our teachers in the past, were integrated in that system, and I can remember they wanted to tell us that the German people became the first victim of Hitler, that they were practically mugged,” said Klaus Peter Triebel from Seefeld, near Munich.

I think that this quote is spot on for the vast majority of Germans in the 30's as well as the vast majority of the tea partiers today.

Again I don't want to Godwin this or turn it into the racist similarities.

However, I see a lot of similarities - the mostly unintelligent people who make up the tea party whose understanding of issues does not go deeper than the bumper stickers they put on their cars coupled with the disastrous decision of Citizens United I think the climate and the possibility of that road is possible.


Discuss
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Old 17th October 2010, 11:39 AM   #2
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Oh gee, what a surprise. Another "right-wingers/conservatives/tea-partiers are racist/stupid/Nazis" thread.

Remember, folks: ad hominems are only logical fallacies when they're used against you.
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Old 17th October 2010, 11:43 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Magyar View Post
In this as well as his/Nazi parties populist appeal has many similarities with the Tea Party and it's debutantes like Palin.
I don't think so.

Quote:
The kind of people -( no I am not talking about the racism part here) the "disenfranchised, mostly uneducated in the sense that the vast majority of them like the Tea Party forks today, have neither the temperament or the intellect to try to understand the complex issues;
"A new Gallup Poll out this morning of 1,033 finds nothing fringe about self-proclaimed Tea Party adherents; they are slightly more likely to be employed, male and definitely more conservative. But otherwise Gallup's Lydia Saad writes, "their age, educational background, employment status, and race -- Tea Partiers are quite representative of the public at large."

and

"According to a New York Times/CBS poll, the 18% of Americans who support the movement are wealthier, more educated, and a lot more pessimistic than average."
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Old 17th October 2010, 11:52 AM   #4
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This thread took longer to make it here than I expected
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Old 17th October 2010, 11:58 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Magyar View Post
NO, I am not making racist anti-Semite comparisons here.
Racism and anti-semitism are not necessary to make smug, self-righteous, stupid and asinine comparisons.
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Old 17th October 2010, 12:03 PM   #6
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Might i also add that when was the last time that they advocated total power in the hands of the state? When has their leadership been centralised to the same extent as the early nazi party? When have they got a militant thug arm that has been beating up left wingers with virtual impunity?
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Old 17th October 2010, 12:57 PM   #7
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The NSDAP was able to rise quickly because the government of Germany at the time was non-functioning. No such situation exists in the U.S. today
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Old 17th October 2010, 01:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams View Post
Oh gee, what a surprise. Another "right-wingers/conservatives/tea-partiers are racist/stupid/Nazis" thread.

Remember, folks: ad hominems are only logical fallacies when they're used against you.
Yeah, instead of implying it now they're flat out calling them Nazis.

0/10 for subtlety.
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Old 17th October 2010, 01:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams View Post
Oh gee, what a surprise. Another "right-wingers/conservatives/tea-partiers are racist/stupid/Nazis" thread.

Remember, folks: ad hominems are only logical fallacies when they're used against you.
While I disagree with the OP, to be fair, a lot of the "right-wingers/conservatives/tea-partiers are racist/stupid/Nazis" threads are based on right-winger/conservative/tea partiers actually being racist (Carl Paladino), stupid (Christine O'Donnell), and dressing like Nazis (Rich Iott).
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Old 17th October 2010, 01:24 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
While I disagree with the OP, to be fair, a lot of the "right-wingers/conservatives/tea-partiers are racist/stupid/Nazis" threads are based on right-winger/conservative/tea partiers actually being racist (Carl Paladino), stupid (Christine O'Donnell), and dressing like Nazis (Rich Iott).

By "a lot" you apparently mean three.
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Old 17th October 2010, 01:26 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
While I disagree with the OP, to be fair, a lot of the "right-wingers/conservatives/tea-partiers are racist/stupid/Nazis" threads are based on right-winger/conservative/tea partiers actually being racist (Carl Paladino), stupid (Christine O'Donnell), and dressing like Nazis (Rich Iott).
I'll give you the first two, Iott probably wasnt in range of an xbox360 to play Halo Reach, which would have meant that he'd have lived up to being a reall teabagger
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Old 17th October 2010, 01:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams View Post
Oh gee, what a surprise. Another "right-wingers/conservatives/tea-partiers are racist/stupid/Nazis" thread.

Remember, folks: ad hominems are only logical fallacies when they're used against you.
Well, According to many jokes during the preWWII/WWII pd. Nazis were spoken of as if they were teabaggers (though admittedly that term is of more recent vintage) by conservatives and liberals alike.

While I agree the Nazis had a funny march and wore sillier outfits, they were much better at unison dancing and cheering - our teabaggers look like a fogey collection hunting for their lawn chairs and prune juice so they can sit out and yell at the neighbor kids.

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Old 17th October 2010, 01:35 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
By "a lot" you apparently mean three.
How do we call people who make hasty generalizations against an entire group of people again? Bigots right?
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Old 17th October 2010, 01:51 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
By "a lot" you apparently mean three.
Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
How do we call people who make hasty generalizations against an entire group of people again? Bigots right?
In reading my original statement, it seems pretty obvious to me that "a lot" was referring to threads, and not the individuals the threads are about.

But hey, don't let a little something like basic reading comprehension get in the way of your clever zingers.
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Old 17th October 2010, 01:55 PM   #15
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Yes, there are 3 or 4 threads about COD alone.
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Old 17th October 2010, 02:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
In reading my original statement, it seems pretty obvious to me that "a lot" was referring to threads, and not the individuals the threads are about.
In reading your original statement, you used individuals names and not thread titles.



EDIT: Bah, Johnny's right. I glossed over the part where he specified "threads" in his OP. These "tea party = terrorist/nazi/racist" threads are so old and tired I kinda tune out while reading them. They're like a bad calculus lecture. This one is arguably the worst and most desperate.

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Old 17th October 2010, 02:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
Yes, there are 3 or 4 threads about COD alone.
Creating 3 or 4 threads about her doesn't make her 3 or 4 people.
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Old 17th October 2010, 02:41 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
Yes, there are 3 or 4 threads about COD alone.
i thought you were talking about Teabaggers on Call Of Duty there.
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Old 17th October 2010, 03:20 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
In reading my original statement, it seems pretty obvious to me that "a lot" was referring to threads, and not the individuals the threads are about.

But hey, don't let a little something like basic reading comprehension get in the way of your clever zingers.
You know, calling the Tea party "Nazis" is far more offensive and disrespectful to History than any one man who plays German soldiers on weekends.

But I guess you're too blinded by your rabid politics to see that.
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Old 17th October 2010, 03:28 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Magyar View Post
“As a person, Hitler was a very ordinary man. He was nothing without the people.”
What a bloody stupid quote. Hitler was (thankfully) rather far from ordinary. He was a charismatic sociopath.

Quote:
In this as well as his/Nazi parties populist appeal has many similarities with the Tea Party and it's debutantes like Palin.
Not so much. Hitler was a believer in authoritarian government. The tea party... is opposed to authoritarian government.

Quote:
The kind of people -( no I am not talking about the racism part here) the "disenfranchised, mostly uneducated in the sense that the vast majority of them like the Tea Party forks today, have neither the temperament or the intellect to try to understand the complex issues;
\

Sounds like you're talking about the Democratic base.

Kidding aside, all you're doing here is engaging in an ad hominem attack against the tea party. Sure, you're not saying they're genocidal antisemites, but the actual intellectual validity of your accusation isn't any better, it's just not so offensive.

Quote:
So when a "messiah" comes along who has the ambition, and sadly nothing else, these people are willing to surrender reason and let themselves be led by the nose to anywhere.
Except that's not what's happening. The tea party isn't centralized. You can't lead any large group "by the nose" if it's not centralized.

Quote:
Several books have been written and all kinds of statistics bear out that the vast majority of right wing voters vote against their self interest.
The quality of such "scholarship" is... dubious. Furthermore, given the standard liberal cant about doing things for the good of society, the idea that someone voting against self-interest is inherently a bad thing is more than a touch ironic.

Quote:
While one can argue that they are doing this for magnanimous reasons from listening to them it's far more likely that they are bamboozled by the likes of Limbaugh and company.
If you don't understand someone else's motives, it's not because you fail to grasp something, it's because they're stoopid.

Keep telling yourself that, Magyar. I'm sure it's a comforting fiction.

Quote:
Again I don't want to Godwin this
And yet...

Quote:
However, I see a lot of similarities - the mostly unintelligent people who make up the tea party whose understanding of issues does not go deeper than the bumper stickers they put on their cars coupled with the disastrous decision of Citizens United I think the climate and the possibility of that road is possible.
I suspect you don't have a clue about what Citizens United actually will do. Your own understanding is probably just bumper-sticker deep.
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Old 17th October 2010, 03:30 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Magyar View Post
Again I don't want to Godwin this…

Except that you had already done so by the time you got to writing this statement. You lose.
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Old 17th October 2010, 04:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
Except that you had already done so by the time you got to writing this statement. You lose.
I'm not really sure that starting a topic with a nazi comparison is really a demonstration of the law.
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Old 17th October 2010, 05:00 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by elbe View Post
I'm not really sure that starting a topic with a nazi comparison is really a demonstration of the law.
Sure it is. It's a trivial example, the way that the function f(x) = 0 is a trivial solution to lots of very complex differential equations, but it fits the law perfectly.
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Old 17th October 2010, 06:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
You know, calling the Tea party "Nazis" is far more offensive and disrespectful to History than any one man who plays German soldiers on weekends.

But I guess you're too blinded by your rabid politics to see that.
Yeah, except for the part where I expressed a sentiment the exact opposite of what you've accused me, you're spot on:

Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
While I disagree with the OP, to be fair, a lot of the "right-wingers/conservatives/tea-partiers are racist/stupid/Nazis" threads are based on right-winger/conservative/tea partiers actually being racist (Carl Paladino), stupid (Christine O'Donnell), and dressing like Nazis (Rich Iott).
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Old 17th October 2010, 07:34 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Sure, you're not saying they're genocidal antisemites,
No, actually, I believe the OP is indeed calling the Tea Party genocidal anti-semites.

The "racist" and "crazy" labels have failed to stick, and some people, when faced with an unsuccessful strategy, seem to think that the solution is to turn the failed strategy up to 11.
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Old 17th October 2010, 09:41 PM   #26
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So when a "messiah" comes along who has the ambition, and sadly nothing else, these people are willing to surrender reason and let themselves be led by the nose to anywhere.
Yup.

No, no. I am not comparing Obama to Hitler. But certainly the messianic fervor by adulating crowds over a anointed leader who will rescue the country, despite having little political experience and no achievements qualifying him to the job, describes the pro-Obama euphoria far better than it describes the tea party's anger.

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Old 17th October 2010, 10:40 PM   #27
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Yes, there are many striking similarities between the Tea Party and the Nazi Party. Of course there are many striking similarities between the American Revolutionists and the Nazi party. What was the point again?

Yes I think there is a danger in populist movements that pander to fear and anger, but that doesn't mean they will always be dangerous.
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Old 17th October 2010, 10:51 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Yes, there are many striking similarities between the Tea Party and the Nazi Party. Of course there are many striking similarities between the American Revolutionists and the Nazi party. What was the point again?
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Old 18th October 2010, 05:52 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
But otherwise Gallup's Lydia Saad writes, "their age, educational background, employment status, and race -- Tea Partiers are quite representative of the public at large."
When helps pin down exactly what type of moron they are.
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Old 18th October 2010, 05:59 AM   #30
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hey, when they can call everyone they dislike a Socialist, why cant we call them Nazis?
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Old 18th October 2010, 06:03 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams View Post
Oh gee, what a surprise. Another "right-wingers/conservatives/tea-partiers are racist/stupid/Nazis" thread.

Remember, folks: ad hominems are only logical fallacies when they're used against you.
No one has ever accused me of being a right-wing apologist, but I have to agree with GA here. This thread is an embarrassment to the forum.
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Old 18th October 2010, 06:55 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
hey, when they can call everyone they dislike a Socialist, why cant we call them Nazis?
No reason at all that I can see. Except that "selfish, greedy, self-centered bastards" would be more precise.
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Old 18th October 2010, 07:54 AM   #33
NoZed Avenger
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Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
Don't forget the "Hello Kitty" Fan Club.

My. God. You're RIGHT.


It goes deeper than we ever imagined. It's KITTIES ALL THE WAY DOWN.
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Old 18th October 2010, 08:09 AM   #34
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I see no similarity other than that both movements had a stink of thuggish ignorance about them.
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Old 18th October 2010, 08:31 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
hey, when they can call everyone they dislike a Socialist, why cant we call them Nazis?
Well... the Nazis were National Socialists... so...
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Old 18th October 2010, 08:36 AM   #36
BenBurch
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Well... the Nazis were National Socialists... so...
Except that was the name of the party they co-opted, and the name had nothing to do with their policies...
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Old 18th October 2010, 08:40 AM   #37
DC
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Well... the Nazis were National Socialists... so...
and North Korea is Democratic, "Democratic People's Republic of Korea"
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Old 18th October 2010, 10:02 AM   #38
Beerina
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
I see no similarity other than that both movements had a stink of thuggish ignorance about them.
November's-a-comin', buddy.
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
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Old 18th October 2010, 10:10 AM   #39
AlBell
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
I see no similarity other than that both movements had a stink of thuggish ignorance about them.
Now, now. No reason to insult the current congress, and administration including its' appointees.

Obamacare is good for you! And we may actually read the bill, someday.
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Old 18th October 2010, 10:21 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
November's-a-comin', buddy.
Ignorance is always an easy sell to the American public; 40% of them think Evolution is a secular plot, after all. Reality is a very hard sell.

I guess what I am saying is that I hardly care who wins any more; the American people seem to want the country to fail, and I'm inclined to let them have that.

"Toute nation a le gouvernement qu’elle mérite." - Joseph de Maistre
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