I think I am a RACIST

Krazy Miller · 28th February 2004, 03:54 AM

I feel kind of bad, but I really can't help it. Every time I see a black guy with a white girl it makes me angry, and when I see the Haitians on TV looting like animals it makes me think of Los Angeles, and I think to myself: "Maybe they are born looters.... they are like wild animals who cannot tame themselves."

Well those are some of my racist thoughts about blacks. Sure, they are bigoted, but I can't seem to help it - these are my natural thoughts!

Ed · 28th February 2004, 04:08 AM

No need to feel bad, you have correctly assessed the situation.

I, personally, get ticked when I go to get my shirts laundered and there isn't a Chinee fella behind the counter. I, then often go to the local Chinese Resturant and stiff the waiter. That always makes me feel better.

But look at the bright side, when slavery comes back, you will have a chance to bid on Halle Berry

If you really want to get steamed, think about the Danes. Blond bastards. Still have not apologised for Lindisfarne and not one cent of reparations!

Life is tough. Do what I do, just glory in your whiteness.

Krazy Miller · 28th February 2004, 04:10 AM

Actually I have to correct this because I don't think I am really a racist but rather I have "racist thoughts" sometimes. I do have black friends and I am capable of analyzing the situation and seeing the truth but still these racist gut feelings to occur to me sometimes. And indeed I do think black act more like animals than whites and other races.

svero · 28th February 2004, 04:11 AM

I feel kind of bad. I can't really help it. Every time I read a post where some idiot says something really stupid I get angry, and when I read lame racist comments it makes me think of uneducated rednecks wearing bedsheets and I think to myself : "Gee that guy must be really really REALLY dumb. Maybe he has some kind of brain chemistry defect that prevents him from thinking rationally? He's like some kind of animal that can't think at a human level."

Well those are some of my thoughts about stupid posts. Sure it seems crazy to form an opinion about someone based on a few stupid posts on a newsgroup, but I can't seem to help it - these are my natural thoughts.

Brian the Snail · 28th February 2004, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krazy Miller
I do have black friends

Really? You have friends?

shemp · 28th February 2004, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian the Snail

Really? You have friends?

Yeah, but they're smarmy Danes.

El Greco · 28th February 2004, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krazy Miller
Every time I see a black guy with a white girl it makes me angry

Let me guess... white guys with white girls, black guys with black girls and white guys with black girls also make you angry.

Earthborn · 28th February 2004, 04:42 AM

Krazy Miller, you are brave to be so open about it. I think it is also good of you that you feel uncomfortable about your thoughts, and realize that they are not necessarily correct, but rather views you have.

Quote:

"Maybe they are born looters.... they are like wild animals who cannot tame themselves."

You are not entirely incorrect, but there is an error in your thinking.

By saying that 'they are like wild animals' you implicitely assume that you (or the group you below to) are not. Instead of assuming that anyone who lives in under the same circumstances is likely to behave in such away, you atttribute their collective behaviour as a characteristic of their personality or biology.

This is what psychologists call a 'fundamental attribution error'. Other examples of such errors include:
When followers of a cult collectively commit suicide and someone explains that by calling them 'crazy'.
Or a group of terrorists kills innocent civilians and someone explains that by saying they are 'evil'.

In both cases, the situation in which the people acted out their behaviour is ignored and instead is attributed to personality traits. It is a very common error in thinking, and we all are likely making it. The best we can hope for is to try to realize when we do and not let it influence our actions too much.

Ed · 28th February 2004, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shemp

Yeah, but they're smarmy Danes.

Got that right. Blond bastards.

Ed · 28th February 2004, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Greco

Let me guess... white guys with white girls, black guys with black girls and white guys with black girls also make you angry.

Except on video

Cain · 28th February 2004, 05:03 AM

Could this be Genghis again? I'm asking.

What person uses his first post to create a thread? A simple introduction, fine. A confession of racism? No.

Cleopatra · 28th February 2004, 05:09 AM

I agree with Cain.

Dancing David · 28th February 2004, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krazy Miller
I feel kind of bad, but I really can't help it. Every time I see a black guy with a white girl it makes me angry, and when I see the Haitians on TV looting like animals it makes me think of Los Angeles, and I think to myself: "Maybe they are born looters.... they are like wild animals who cannot tame themselves."

Well those are some of my racist thoughts about blacks. Sure, they are bigoted, but I can't seem to help it - these are my natural thoughts!

Well, most Americans felt the same way about the Irish at one time.

Ed · 28th February 2004, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dancing David

Well, most Americans felt the same way about the Irish at one time.

At one time??????

Wrath of the Swarm · 28th February 2004, 07:45 AM

DNFTT, please.

Doubt · 28th February 2004, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cain
Could this be Genghis again? I'm asking.

It could be somebody else. A little time will tell. Very little if it is GP again.

Abdul Alhazred · 28th February 2004, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed
If you really want to get steamed, think about the Danes. Blond bastards. Still have not apologised for Lindisfarne and not one cent of reparations!

You got that right!

They used to say that you can't be too white, but they never met a Dane.

Danes aren't white like folks, not even fish-belly white, they're white like my refrigerator.

One thing I like about JREF forums, it tells me more reasons to hate the Danes, like their bloody awful excuse for feta cheese.

Everybody knows that proper feta cheese is from the United States of America!

Ed · 28th February 2004, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred

You got that right!

They used to say that you can't be too white, but they never met a Dane.

Danes aren't white like folks, not even fish-belly white, they're white like my refrigerator.

One thing I like about JREF forums, it tells me more reasons to hate the Danes, like their bloody awful excuse for feta cheese.

Everybody knows that proper feta cheese is from the United States of America!

Funny you say that. A greek friend of mine (I notice Greeks are NEVER Greek American, they are Greeks) said that the best Feta came from Romania.

Jaan · 28th February 2004, 10:56 AM

OKay ... I don't think so many people are racist as much as they are prejudice. Everyone is prejudice. There is no way you can go through life without judging people before you get to know them.

What made me realize this was a very close friend of mine who is a black woman from Kenya (I'm a white guy BTW). It was interesting to see that she has the same thoughts about "American" blacks. She just didn't see herself as being part of the same group. When I went to visit her in Kenya it was startling to see the exact same kind of prejudice in a place where everyone was the same color, except that it was much more apparent that it stemmed from ... social and class structure.

It's funny, although I'm white I'm also part of an ethnic minority with a VERY ethnic name ... people first meet me and think I'm one sort of person, then they hear my name. "Huh, you don't look like a ..."

I think the first step in overcoming racism and prejudice is realizing that it exists in you. If that's what you're doing Krazy Miller then you're doing better than most people.

Abdul Alhazred · 28th February 2004, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed

Funny you say that. A greek friend of mine (I notice Greeks are NEVER Greek American, they are Greeks) said that the best Feta came from Romania.

Greek Americans are Americans, though they may have heretical culinary views.

Roumania (note proper spelling) you say? One of my grandmothers is from Roumania. When I make patlizhan I follow her recipe. It is a vegetarian dish, never mind those infidel Turks.

It is similar to babaganoush. It is heresy to put meat in it.

Her husband from Ukraine called the same dish 'baklizhan'. A mispronunciation, but at least he knew what the stuff is supposed to be.

By the way those are phonetic spellings in English, I am not acquainted with the original languages.

Which is to say, I am 100% American, as my grandparents became.

Nikk · 28th February 2004, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred

One thing I like about JREF forums, it tells me more reasons to hate the Danes, like their bloody awful excuse for feta cheese.

And don't forget the the bloody SPAM of course!

TillEulenspiegel · 28th February 2004, 12:09 PM

Woa! That's a raciest thing to say...Danes?
It's not just the Danes but also the Swedish and the Norwegian...and You know why their all White w/ a blue tinge? Lutefisk! Fish soaked in lye.I bet if You fed that crap to the darkest skinned Nigerian after 3 or so servings he would look like George Hamilton.

Abdul Alhazred · 28th February 2004, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel
Woa! That's a raciest thing to say...Danes?
It's not just the Danes but also the Swedish and the Norwegian...and You know why their all White w/ a blue tinge? Lutefisk! Fish soaked in lye.I bet if You fed that crap to the darkest skinned Nigerian after 3 or so servings he would look like George Hamilton.

In I Remember Mamma the classic line is "Swedes are Norwegians with their head knocked off".

As for lutefisk, compare that to the baccalà of the Italians or the bacalao of the Puerto Ricans. It is truly a multiculural dish.

OK no really dark skinned folks who like it, but they could learn as they did "French" (or is it "freedom") fries.

Mycroft · 28th February 2004, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Earthborn
When followers of a cult collectively commit suicide and someone explains that by calling them 'crazy'.
Or a group of terrorists kills innocent civilians and someone explains that by saying they are 'evil'.

There is a difference between placing a value judgment on an action and identifying the circumstances that lead an individual to choose that action.

I once had the opportunity to speak to a former member of the “Heaven’s Gate” cult. He had left the group before they committed their group suicide, and he told me a little bit about what it was like to be a member. He described it as being a warm and friendly environment, where everyone was like family and shared a common purpose and worldview. He told me that even though he was sad and angry at their suicide, a part of him wished he had been there to do it with them.

Can one understand and explain the actions of these people? Certainly, if one learns enough or has had personal experience. Does that understanding in any way take away from the characterization of such actions as “evil” or “crazy”? I don’t think so.

Regnad Kcin · 28th February 2004, 01:11 PM

No offense, but this topic belongs in P,CE&H how?

NullPointerException · 28th February 2004, 04:05 PM

Hes talking about a perfectly normal psychological predisposition that serves as a defense mechanism. IF you want you can just yell its racism but the truth is that he has been exposed to more negative information about blacks than positive(in this case it is probably a tenuous balance between negative and positive) and as a result he is prone to stereotyping them. On the other hand black female congresswoman whose name I cannot mention for fear of being called racist makes a clearly racist comment and no one will touch her.

Shane Costello · 28th February 2004, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed:
At one time??????

Thank you, Michael Flatley. OTOH guess which country is relatively untainted by Scandanavian placenames and genes?

TLN · 29th February 2004, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krazy Miller
I feel kind of bad, but I really can't help it. Every time I see a black guy with a white girl it makes me angry, and when I see the Haitians on TV looting like animals it makes me think of Los Angeles, and I think to myself: "Maybe they are born looters.... they are like wild animals who cannot tame themselves."

Well those are some of my racist thoughts about blacks. Sure, they are bigoted, but I can't seem to help it - these are my natural thoughts!

There's a very simple cure for this.

Get a meat thermometer and sick it in your ear. Hit the thermometer several times hard with a hammer.

There you go, instant bigot cure.

a_unique_person · 29th February 2004, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krazy Miller
I feel kind of bad, but I really can't help it. Every time I see a black guy with a white girl it makes me angry, and when I see the Haitians on TV looting like animals it makes me think of Los Angeles, and I think to myself: "Maybe they are born looters.... they are like wild animals who cannot tame themselves."

Well those are some of my racist thoughts about blacks. Sure, they are bigoted, but I can't seem to help it - these are my natural thoughts!

If you see your thoughts for what they are, then you are like the rest of us. People seem to have a 'tribal' instinct. The racists that are the worry are those that take those thoughts and feed them and spread them.

fishbob · 29th February 2004, 10:49 PM

Instant bigot cure? I wanna be a curmudgeon when I grow up.

PogoPedant · 1st March 2004, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel
Woa! That's a raciest thing to say...Danes?
It's not just the Danes but also the Swedish and the Norwegian...and You know why their all White w/ a blue tinge? Lutefisk! Fish soaked in lye.I bet if You fed that crap to the darkest skinned Nigerian after 3 or so servings he would look like George Hamilton.

It seems you're stuck in your damn America-centric ways. Lutefisk is exclusively eaten by the criminally insane that we exiled to the Great Prison of America back in the days.

Segnosaur · 1st March 2004, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dancing David

Well, most Americans felt the same way about the Irish at one time.

One of the funniest lines I've ever seen in a movie comes from Blazing Saddles... The employees of the railroad (of various ethnic cultures) offer to help out a small town, in exchange for a little plot of land.

The mayor of the town responds... "Ok, we'll take the ch*nks and the n*gg*rs, but we don't want the irish."

Here's a general question... if you enjoy 'racial' humour (even if you know the underlying joke depends on false stereotypes) does that make someone a 'racist'?

Tony · 1st March 2004, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Segnosaur

Here's a general question... if you enjoy 'racial' humour (even if you know the underlying joke depends on false stereotypes) does that make someone a 'racist'?

To the PC Nazis, it would. To rational thinkers, it wouldn't.

Zero · 1st March 2004, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Segnosaur

One of the funniest lines I've ever seen in a movie comes from Blazing Saddles... The employees of the railroad (of various ethnic cultures) offer to help out a small town, in exchange for a little plot of land.

The mayor of the town responds... "Ok, we'll take the ch*nks and the n*gg*rs, but we don't want the irish."

Here's a general question... if you enjoy 'racial' humour (even if you know the underlying joke depends on false stereotypes) does that make someone a 'racist'?

Just a little bit, but not so much as to make you a bad person.

epepke · 1st March 2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mycroft
I once had the opportunity to speak to a former member of the “Heaven’s Gate” cult. He had left the group before they committed their group suicide, and he told me a little bit about what it was like to be a member. He described it as being a warm and friendly environment, where everyone was like family and shared a common purpose and worldview. He told me that even though he was sad and angry at their suicide, a part of him wished he had been there to do it with them.

I highly recommend Ticket to Heaven, a Canadian film loosely based on a book about Moonies. Some of the best anthropology in movie form I have ever seen.

Quote:

[/b]Can one understand and explain the actions of these people? Certainly, if one learns enough or has had personal experience. Does that understanding in any way take away from the characterization of such actions as “evil” or “crazy”? I don’t think so. [/b]

I agree, but I also question the personal understanding thing.

I hear what Earthborn is saying, but it comes across to me as almost (although not quite as) naïve as just dismissing them as crazy. There is such a thing as overestimating the effects of environment. It's one thing to say that someone born into a life of gruelling povery might behave a bit more antisocially than someone not.

On the other hand, ya know, call me a bigot of you like, but I just get the sneaking suspicion that Patricia Hearst didn't have that excuse.

Heaven's Gate and Jonestown and the like were made up of your basic, solidly middle class people or upper middle class people, people who had plenty of access to education, who decided to go out and do what they did anyway. Most of the people in Jonestown weren't born there. They went and built it. They had a choice. They went and built that thing, because that's the kind of thing they wanted.

Furthermore, the view that Earthborn is describing very quickly becomes self-contradictory. It isn't PC to talk about races, nationalities, sexes, or any other of the Bad Isms. (To save typing, I'll just call these "-isms") However, it is acceptable, in fact almost mandatory to talk about cultures, which de facto are used as a stand-ins for race etc. Whether this is an accurate view is beside the point. It is the view that is taught in universities everywhere in the US, usually in mandatory-for-graduation classes. Cultures are supposed to be respected, and the people within the cultures are supposed to be given the credit for the culture.

However, you can't think too much about this without realizing that "culture" is just a name for this environment that people are supposed to be molded by. To maintain consistently, the rhetorician has to find another aspect. Natural resources, general local economy, and government won't do, because that would require too many explanations, and the rhetorician is usually interested in making universal claims, such as the idea that a guy living in a Mississippi swamp and a career officer for the Navy in Philadelphia are united somehow under the umbrella of "African-American Culture."

One way out of this is to focus on an oppressor, the idea being that the culture would be just peachy if it weren't for those other people. Not that oppression, discrimination, et. al. don't exist and aren't real problems, but that they also serve a function much like the war does in Orwell's 1984, or for that matter, Ashcroft's use of the War on Terror™. There's a hard nugget of truth in there, but even as the nugget shrinks, it is used to support an increasingly outlandish structure of social control and rhetoric.

You can test this assertion empirically by looking at how, when some aspects of oppression and discrimination are ameliorated or removed, claims of oppression do not decrease in volume or frequency but only in details, which often directly contradict earlier claims.

In addition, with respect those people, the rules against stereotypy are abandoned. Some people are at least honest enough to admit this, to claim that it's really only racism when applied to certain groups. Thus we get statements like "all Koreans are racist," which I heard stated quite seriously on National Public Radio some years ago.

Another way out is simply not to think or talk about it. This solution is popular in Europe. Europe is incredibly -ismist, but very few people in Europe perceive the -isms. Lots of them are just certain that the Irish or the English or the Jews or the Turks or the Germans or the "Pakis" or the people on one side of Belgium who speak Flemish or the people on the other side of Belgium who speak French or the Parisians or the French outside Paris or the Gypsies or the Basques or just those people down the street who talk funny are inferior in some way. This is not like, say, New Yorkers making fun of New Jersey or Illini telling you that everyone from Indiana is a lousy driver; it's taken bloodlessly seriously. Occasionally bloodily seriously. It's more like conditions in, say, New York a hundred years ago with the waves of immigrants, but in Europe it's perennial and commonplace.

Europe has made great strides since the days of Zyklon-B, but they could really do with the kind of upheaval that the US experienced in the late 1950s and 1960s. Give 'em time; they haven't had more than a decade or two of this big Federal government stuff. They haven't even had the Whisky Rebellion yet, although there's some hope with this "country of origin" stuff.

DanishDynamite · 1st March 2004, 06:14 PM

epepke:

Quote:

Another way out is simply not to think or talk about it. This solution is popular in Europe. Europe is incredibly -ismist, but very few people in Europe perceive the -isms. Lots of them are just certain that the Irish or the English or the Jews or the Turks or the Germans or the "Pakis" or the people on one side of Belgium who speak Flemish or the people on the other side of Belgium who speak French or the Parisians or the French outside Paris or the Gypsies or the Basques or just those people down the street who talk funny are inferior in some way. This is not like, say, New Yorkers making fun of New Jersey or Illini telling you that everyone from Indiana is a lousy driver; it's taken bloodlessly seriously. Occasionally bloodily seriously. It's more like conditions in, say, New York a hundred years ago with the waves of immigrants, but in Europe it's perennial and commonplace.

There may be some kernel of truth to your assertion. I guess things here are quite similar to the way it is in the US. I mean, those wetbacks, for example. Definitely something inferior about them.

Quote:

Europe has made great strides since the days of Zyklon-B, but they could really do with the kind of upheaval that the US experienced in the late 1950s and 1960s. Give 'em time; they haven't had more than a decade or two of this big Federal government stuff. They haven't even had the Whisky Rebellion yet, although there's some hope with this "country of origin" stuff.

And perhaps the US will one day reach the point where things like the L.A. riots are unthinkable. Or Affirmative Action. They've made great strides afterall.

DanishDynamite · 1st March 2004, 06:21 PM

BTW, this thread is a keeper. Thanks everyone for your heart-warming remarks on the upstanding nature of the Danes. We'll be sending a complementary set of berserkers to each poster, complete with battle axes and maniacal killing attitudes. Just our modest way of saying thank you.

epepke · 1st March 2004, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
epepke:There may be some kernel of truth to your assertion. I guess things here are quite similar to the way it is in the US. I mean, those wetbacks, for example. Definitely something inferior about them.

There may be some cross-Atlantic confusion here. There aren't that many wetbacks. Those are people who swim to the US border. Most walk across the border or come in trucks. These people are more commonly referred to as coyotes, not wetbacks.

But seriously, folks. My point, which you may have percieved as a distant "whoosh" several hundred meters above your head, is not that there is no racism in the US, but that people in general are embarassed by it. So there are debates about it. Plenty of California initiatives to give even illegal immigrants benefits. Hell, even George W. Bush, whom I generally consider a waste of skin, has done something for illegal immigrants.

Quote:

And perhaps the US will one day reach the point where things like the L.A. riots are unthinkable. Or Affirmative Action. They've made great strides afterall.

Yes. I like to point out to people that the Rodney King riots were even worse than the Watts riots. I had a girlfriend, who happened to be black, from southern California. Her parents gave me a tour of a campus in SouthCentral LA that was being built for "gifted" students. (I hate that term, but my ex-girlfriend's nephew definitely had the smarts and belonged where he could do something with them.)

They (the parents) said that all of the land was "cleared" by the Rodney King riots. That, to me, was very bittersweet.

There are many things that need to be improved in the United States, but we admit the fact and don't automatically play neener-neener boo-boo.

Which again has something to do with that point I alluded to earlier.

Krazy Miller · 1st March 2004, 08:09 PM

Thank you for these ideas here I really don't know why I feel such horrible things about black people sometimes because like I said I have many blacks friends that I really like. In fact two of my drinking buddies are black guys and I don't care AT ALL whenever they try to pick up white women. In fact I always help my buddies try to meet women of course, like we all do! I have never once thought a bad thing about a black person I knew. Strange.

epepke · 1st March 2004, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krazy Miller
Thank you for these ideas here I really don't know why I feel such horrible things about black people sometimes because like I said I have many blacks friends that I really like.

Perhaps a quote from Mark Twain will make you feel better. Unfortunately, I can't remember it exactly, but here's a paraphrase:

"The Jews are, in general, no better and no worse than any other people, and I cannot think of a more insulting condemnation."

Substitute whatever you like for "Jews."

28th February 2004, 03:54 AM	#1
Krazy Miller Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 72	I think I am a RACIST I feel kind of bad, but I really can't help it. Every time I see a black guy with a white girl it makes me angry, and when I see the Haitians on TV looting like animals it makes me think of Los Angeles, and I think to myself: "Maybe they are born looters.... they are like wild animals who cannot tame themselves." Well those are some of my racist thoughts about blacks. Sure, they are bigoted, but I can't seem to help it - these are my natural thoughts!
Krazy Miller Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 72

28th February 2004, 04:08 AM	#2
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	No need to feel bad, you have correctly assessed the situation. I, personally, get ticked when I go to get my shirts laundered and there isn't a Chinee fella behind the counter. I, then often go to the local Chinese Resturant and stiff the waiter. That always makes me feel better. But look at the bright side, when slavery comes back, you will have a chance to bid on Halle Berry If you really want to get steamed, think about the Danes. Blond bastards. Still have not apologised for Lindisfarne and not one cent of reparations! Life is tough. Do what I do, just glory in your whiteness.
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

28th February 2004, 04:10 AM	#3
Krazy Miller Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 72	Actually I have to correct this because I don't think I am really a racist but rather I have "racist thoughts" sometimes. I do have black friends and I am capable of analyzing the situation and seeing the truth but still these racist gut feelings to occur to me sometimes. And indeed I do think black act more like animals than whites and other races.
Krazy Miller Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 72

28th February 2004, 04:11 AM	#4
svero Thinker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 217	I feel kind of bad. I can't really help it. Every time I read a post where some idiot says something really stupid I get angry, and when I read lame racist comments it makes me think of uneducated rednecks wearing bedsheets and I think to myself : "Gee that guy must be really really REALLY dumb. Maybe he has some kind of brain chemistry defect that prevents him from thinking rationally? He's like some kind of animal that can't think at a human level." Well those are some of my thoughts about stupid posts. Sure it seems crazy to form an opinion about someone based on a few stupid posts on a newsgroup, but I can't seem to help it - these are my natural thoughts.
svero Thinker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 217	__________________ 'The idea that (technology) takes away mystery or awe or wonder in nature is wrong. It's quite the opposite. It's much more wonderful to know what something's really like than to sit there and just simply, in ignorance, say, "Oooh, isn't it wonderful?"' - Richard Feynman

28th February 2004, 04:22 AM	#5
Brian the Snail Muse Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 963	Quote: Originally posted by Krazy Miller I do have black friends Really? You have friends?
Brian the Snail Muse Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 963

28th February 2004, 04:32 AM	#6
shemp Timothy, Timothy, where on earth did you go? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: trapped in a cave-in with Joe Posts: 12,884	Quote: Originally posted by Brian the Snail Really? You have friends? Yeah, but they're smarmy Danes.
	__________________ Church on Sunday, sleep and nod Tryin' to duck the wrath of God Preacher's fillin' us with fright Tryin' to tell us what he thinks is right He really got to be some kind of nut (I can't use it!) Tryin' to make it real - compared to what?

28th February 2004, 04:38 AM	#7
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 14,259	Re: I think I am a RACIST Quote: Originally posted by Krazy Miller Every time I see a black guy with a white girl it makes me angry Let me guess... white guys with white girls, black guys with black girls and white guys with black girls also make you angry.
	__________________ "Robbing a bank is no crime compared to owning one" - Bertolt Brecht "Let it go and come to bed already, El Greco" - MoeFaux

28th February 2004, 04:42 AM	#8
Earthborn Terrestrial Intelligence Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Terra Firma Posts: 5,646	Re: I think I am a RACIST Krazy Miller, you are brave to be so open about it. I think it is also good of you that you feel uncomfortable about your thoughts, and realize that they are not necessarily correct, but rather views you have. Quote: "Maybe they are born looters.... they are like wild animals who cannot tame themselves." You are not entirely incorrect, but there is an error in your thinking. By saying that 'they are like wild animals' you implicitely assume that you (or the group you below to) are not. Instead of assuming that anyone who lives in under the same circumstances is likely to behave in such away, you atttribute their collective behaviour as a characteristic of their personality or biology. This is what psychologists call a 'fundamental attribution error'. Other examples of such errors include: When followers of a cult collectively commit suicide and someone explains that by calling them 'crazy'. Or a group of terrorists kills innocent civilians and someone explains that by saying they are 'evil'. In both cases, the situation in which the people acted out their behaviour is ignored and instead is attributed to personality traits. It is a very common error in thinking, and we all are likely making it. The best we can hope for is to try to realize when we do and not let it influence our actions too much.
	__________________ Perhaps nothing is entirely true; and not even that! Multatuli

28th February 2004, 04:48 AM	#9
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	Quote: Originally posted by shemp Yeah, but they're smarmy Danes. Got that right. Blond bastards.
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

28th February 2004, 04:50 AM	#10
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	Re: Re: I think I am a RACIST Quote: Originally posted by El Greco Let me guess... white guys with white girls, black guys with black girls and white guys with black girls also make you angry. Except on video
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

28th February 2004, 05:03 AM	#11
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,933	Could this be Genghis again? I'm asking. What person uses his first post to create a thread? A simple introduction, fine. A confession of racism? No.
	__________________ *Arrested Development* is coming back! Michael (to GOB): Get rid of the Seaward. Lucille: I’ll leave when I’m good and ready.

28th February 2004, 05:09 AM	#12
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,272	I agree with Cain.
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.

28th February 2004, 07:28 AM	#13
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,700	Re: I think I am a RACIST Quote: Originally posted by Krazy Miller I feel kind of bad, but I really can't help it. Every time I see a black guy with a white girl it makes me angry, and when I see the Haitians on TV looting like animals it makes me think of Los Angeles, and I think to myself: "Maybe they are born looters.... they are like wild animals who cannot tame themselves." Well those are some of my racist thoughts about blacks. Sure, they are bigoted, but I can't seem to help it - these are my natural thoughts! Well, most Americans felt the same way about the Irish at one time.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

28th February 2004, 07:39 AM	#14
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	Re: Re: I think I am a RACIST Quote: Originally posted by Dancing David Well, most Americans felt the same way about the Irish at one time. At one time??????
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

28th February 2004, 07:45 AM	#15
Wrath of the Swarm Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,862	DNFTT, please.
	__________________ A truth that's told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent. -- William Blake

28th February 2004, 08:09 AM	#16
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 5,443	Quote: Originally posted by Cain Could this be Genghis again? I'm asking. It could be somebody else. A little time will tell. Very little if it is GP again.
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 5,443	__________________ Doubt world tour locations: Mostly home for now. No international travel scheduled other than the Galapagos trip in March. Disclaimer: Not a high energy scientist!

28th February 2004, 09:57 AM	#17
Abdul Alhazred Yes, that one. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,475	Quote: Originally posted by Ed If you really want to get steamed, think about the Danes. Blond bastards. Still have not apologised for Lindisfarne and not one cent of reparations! You got that right! They used to say that you can't be too white, but they never met a Dane. Danes aren't white like folks, not even fish-belly white, they're white like my refrigerator. One thing I like about JREF forums, it tells me more reasons to hate the Danes, like their bloody awful excuse for feta cheese. Everybody knows that proper feta cheese is from the United States of America!
	__________________ The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation.

28th February 2004, 10:56 AM	#18
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	Quote: Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred You got that right! They used to say that you can't be too white, but they never met a Dane. Danes aren't white like folks, not even fish-belly white, they're white like my refrigerator. One thing I like about JREF forums, it tells me more reasons to hate the Danes, like their bloody awful excuse for feta cheese. Everybody knows that proper feta cheese is from the United States of America! Funny you say that. A greek friend of mine (I notice Greeks are NEVER Greek American, they are Greeks) said that the best Feta came from Romania.
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

28th February 2004, 10:56 AM	#19
Jaan Scholar Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: People's Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 88	OKay ... I don't think so many people are racist as much as they are prejudice. Everyone is prejudice. There is no way you can go through life without judging people before you get to know them. What made me realize this was a very close friend of mine who is a black woman from Kenya (I'm a white guy BTW). It was interesting to see that she has the same thoughts about "American" blacks. She just didn't see herself as being part of the same group. When I went to visit her in Kenya it was startling to see the exact same kind of prejudice in a place where everyone was the same color, except that it was much more apparent that it stemmed from ... social and class structure. It's funny, although I'm white I'm also part of an ethnic minority with a VERY ethnic name ... people first meet me and think I'm one sort of person, then they hear my name. "Huh, you don't look like a ..." I think the first step in overcoming racism and prejudice is realizing that it exists in you. If that's what you're doing Krazy Miller then you're doing better than most people.
	__________________ "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied -- chains us all, irrevocably." - Jean Luc Picard

28th February 2004, 11:22 AM	#20
Abdul Alhazred Yes, that one. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,475	Quote: Originally posted by Ed Funny you say that. A greek friend of mine (I notice Greeks are NEVER Greek American, they are Greeks) said that the best Feta came from Romania. Greek Americans are Americans, though they may have heretical culinary views. Roumania (note proper spelling) you say? One of my grandmothers is from Roumania. When I make patlizhan I follow her recipe. It is a vegetarian dish, never mind those infidel Turks. It is similar to babaganoush. It is heresy to put meat in it. Her husband from Ukraine called the same dish 'baklizhan'. A mispronunciation, but at least he knew what the stuff is supposed to be. By the way those are phonetic spellings in English, I am not acquainted with the original languages. Which is to say, I am 100% American, as my grandparents became.
	__________________ The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation.

28th February 2004, 11:51 AM	#21
Nikk Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,249	Quote: Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred One thing I like about JREF forums, it tells me more reasons to hate the Danes, like their bloody awful excuse for feta cheese. And don't forget the the bloody SPAM of course!
Nikk Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,249

28th February 2004, 12:09 PM	#22
TillEulenspiegel Master Poster Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,310	Woa! That's a raciest thing to say...Danes? It's not just the Danes but also the Swedish and the Norwegian...and You know why their all White w/ a blue tinge? Lutefisk! Fish soaked in lye.I bet if You fed that crap to the darkest skinned Nigerian after 3 or so servings he would look like George Hamilton.
	__________________ "God does not play dice with the universe." Albert Einstein "Who is Einstein to tell God what to do?" Niels Bohr Remember, %97.3 of all accidents occur %100 of the time.

28th February 2004, 12:28 PM	#23
Abdul Alhazred Yes, that one. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,475	Quote: Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel Woa! That's a raciest thing to say...Danes? It's not just the Danes but also the Swedish and the Norwegian...and You know why their all White w/ a blue tinge? Lutefisk! Fish soaked in lye.I bet if You fed that crap to the darkest skinned Nigerian after 3 or so servings he would look like George Hamilton. In I Remember Mamma the classic line is "Swedes are Norwegians with their head knocked off". As for lutefisk, compare that to the baccalà of the Italians or the bacalao of the Puerto Ricans. It is truly a multiculural dish. OK no really dark skinned folks who like it, but they could learn as they did "French" (or is it "freedom") fries.
	__________________ The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation.

28th February 2004, 12:48 PM	#24
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16,105	Re: Re: I think I am a RACIST Quote: Originally posted by Earthborn When followers of a cult collectively commit suicide and someone explains that by calling them 'crazy'. Or a group of terrorists kills innocent civilians and someone explains that by saying they are 'evil'. There is a difference between placing a value judgment on an action and identifying the circumstances that lead an individual to choose that action. I once had the opportunity to speak to a former member of the “Heaven’s Gate” cult. He had left the group before they committed their group suicide, and he told me a little bit about what it was like to be a member. He described it as being a warm and friendly environment, where everyone was like family and shared a common purpose and worldview. He told me that even though he was sad and angry at their suicide, a part of him wished he had been there to do it with them. Can one understand and explain the actions of these people? Certainly, if one learns enough or has had personal experience. Does that understanding in any way take away from the characterization of such actions as “evil” or “crazy”? I don’t think so.
	__________________ Surely Israel is the party to blame? -a_unique_person I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. -a_unique_person Palestinian Refugees

28th February 2004, 01:11 PM	#25
Regnad Kcin Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The ol' Same place Posts: 6,205	No offense, but this topic belongs in P,CE&H how?
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

28th February 2004, 04:05 PM	#26
NullPointerException Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 228	Hes talking about a perfectly normal psychological predisposition that serves as a defense mechanism. IF you want you can just yell its racism but the truth is that he has been exposed to more negative information about blacks than positive(in this case it is probably a tenuous balance between negative and positive) and as a result he is prone to stereotyping them. On the other hand black female congresswoman whose name I cannot mention for fear of being called racist makes a clearly racist comment and no one will touch her.

28th February 2004, 04:24 PM	#27
Shane Costello Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,235	Quote: Originally posted by Ed: At one time?????? Thank you, Michael Flatley. OTOH guess which country is relatively untainted by Scandanavian placenames and genes?

29th February 2004, 10:20 PM	#28
TLN Curmudgeon Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,902	Re: I think I am a RACIST Quote: Originally posted by Krazy Miller I feel kind of bad, but I really can't help it. Every time I see a black guy with a white girl it makes me angry, and when I see the Haitians on TV looting like animals it makes me think of Los Angeles, and I think to myself: "Maybe they are born looters.... they are like wild animals who cannot tame themselves." Well those are some of my racist thoughts about blacks. Sure, they are bigoted, but I can't seem to help it - these are my natural thoughts! There's a very simple cure for this. Get a meat thermometer and sick it in your ear. Hit the thermometer several times hard with a hammer. There you go, instant bigot cure.
TLN Curmudgeon Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,902	__________________ I've had a friend scramble my password. Enjoy your cult.

29th February 2004, 10:24 PM	#29
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,317	Re: I think I am a RACIST Quote: Originally posted by Krazy Miller I feel kind of bad, but I really can't help it. Every time I see a black guy with a white girl it makes me angry, and when I see the Haitians on TV looting like animals it makes me think of Los Angeles, and I think to myself: "Maybe they are born looters.... they are like wild animals who cannot tame themselves." Well those are some of my racist thoughts about blacks. Sure, they are bigoted, but I can't seem to help it - these are my natural thoughts! If you see your thoughts for what they are, then you are like the rest of us. People seem to have a 'tribal' instinct. The racists that are the worry are those that take those thoughts and feed them and spread them.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

29th February 2004, 10:49 PM	#30
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,666	Instant bigot cure? I wanna be a curmudgeon when I grow up.
	__________________ When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder "Stupidity - a callow indifference to facts or data" - Stuart Firestein -neuroscientist. I hate bigots.

1st March 2004, 03:17 AM	#31
PogoPedant Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 764	Quote: Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel Woa! That's a raciest thing to say...Danes? It's not just the Danes but also the Swedish and the Norwegian...and You know why their all White w/ a blue tinge? Lutefisk! Fish soaked in lye.I bet if You fed that crap to the darkest skinned Nigerian after 3 or so servings he would look like George Hamilton. It seems you're stuck in your damn America-centric ways. Lutefisk is exclusively eaten by the criminally insane that we exiled to the Great Prison of America back in the days.
PogoPedant Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 764	__________________ GENERATION 7: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

1st March 2004, 09:42 AM	#32
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,072	Re: Re: I think I am a RACIST Quote: Originally posted by Dancing David Well, most Americans felt the same way about the Irish at one time. One of the funniest lines I've ever seen in a movie comes from Blazing Saddles... The employees of the railroad (of various ethnic cultures) offer to help out a small town, in exchange for a little plot of land. The mayor of the town responds... "Ok, we'll take the chnks and the nggrs, but we don't want the irish*." Here's a general question... if you enjoy 'racial' humour (even if you know the underlying joke depends on false stereotypes) does that make someone a 'racist'?
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

1st March 2004, 09:47 AM	#33
Tony Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 13,753	Re: Re: Re: I think I am a RACIST Quote: Originally posted by Segnosaur Here's a general question... if you enjoy 'racial' humour (even if you know the underlying joke depends on false stereotypes) does that make someone a 'racist'? To the PC Nazis, it would. To rational thinkers, it wouldn't.
	__________________ It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

1st March 2004, 10:06 AM	#34
Zero Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,535	Re: Re: Re: I think I am a RACIST Quote: Originally posted by Segnosaur One of the funniest lines I've ever seen in a movie comes from Blazing Saddles... The employees of the railroad (of various ethnic cultures) offer to help out a small town, in exchange for a little plot of land. The mayor of the town responds... "Ok, we'll take the chnks and the nggrs, but we don't want the irish*." Here's a general question... if you enjoy 'racial' humour (even if you know the underlying joke depends on false stereotypes) does that make someone a 'racist'? Just a little bit, but not so much as to make you a bad person.
Zero Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,535	__________________ "I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species. I wanted to open the dump valves on oil tankers and smother all the French beaches I'd never see. I wanted to breathe smoke.

1st March 2004, 02:20 PM	#35
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	Re: Re: Re: I think I am a RACIST Quote: Originally posted by Mycroft I once had the opportunity to speak to a former member of the “Heaven’s Gate” cult. He had left the group before they committed their group suicide, and he told me a little bit about what it was like to be a member. He described it as being a warm and friendly environment, where everyone was like family and shared a common purpose and worldview. He told me that even though he was sad and angry at their suicide, a part of him wished he had been there to do it with them. I highly recommend Ticket to Heaven, a Canadian film loosely based on a book about Moonies. Some of the best anthropology in movie form I have ever seen. Quote: [/b]Can one understand and explain the actions of these people? Certainly, if one learns enough or has had personal experience. Does that understanding in any way take away from the characterization of such actions as “evil” or “crazy”? I don’t think so. [/b] I agree, but I also question the personal understanding thing. I hear what Earthborn is saying, but it comes across to me as almost (although not quite as) naïve as just dismissing them as crazy. There is such a thing as overestimating the effects of environment. It's one thing to say that someone born into a life of gruelling povery might behave a bit more antisocially than someone not. On the other hand, ya know, call me a bigot of you like, but I just get the sneaking suspicion that Patricia Hearst didn't have that excuse. Heaven's Gate and Jonestown and the like were made up of your basic, solidly middle class people or upper middle class people, people who had plenty of access to education, who decided to go out and do what they did anyway. Most of the people in Jonestown weren't born there. They went and built it. They had a choice. They went and built that thing, because that's the kind of thing they wanted. Furthermore, the view that Earthborn is describing very quickly becomes self-contradictory. It isn't PC to talk about races, nationalities, sexes, or any other of the Bad Isms. (To save typing, I'll just call these "-isms") However, it is acceptable, in fact almost mandatory to talk about cultures, which de facto are used as a stand-ins for race etc. Whether this is an accurate view is beside the point. It is the view that is taught in universities everywhere in the US, usually in mandatory-for-graduation classes. Cultures are supposed to be respected, and the people within the cultures are supposed to be given the credit for the culture. However, you can't think too much about this without realizing that "culture" is just a name for this environment that people are supposed to be molded by. To maintain consistently, the rhetorician has to find another aspect. Natural resources, general local economy, and government won't do, because that would require too many explanations, and the rhetorician is usually interested in making universal claims, such as the idea that a guy living in a Mississippi swamp and a career officer for the Navy in Philadelphia are united somehow under the umbrella of "African-American Culture." One way out of this is to focus on an oppressor, the idea being that the culture would be just peachy if it weren't for those other people. Not that oppression, discrimination, et. al. don't exist and aren't real problems, but that they also serve a function much like the war does in Orwell's 1984, or for that matter, Ashcroft's use of the War on Terror™. There's a hard nugget of truth in there, but even as the nugget shrinks, it is used to support an increasingly outlandish structure of social control and rhetoric. You can test this assertion empirically by looking at how, when some aspects of oppression and discrimination are ameliorated or removed, claims of oppression do not decrease in volume or frequency but only in details, which often directly contradict earlier claims. In addition, with respect those people, the rules against stereotypy are abandoned. Some people are at least honest enough to admit this, to claim that it's really only racism when applied to certain groups. Thus we get statements like "all Koreans are racist," which I heard stated quite seriously on National Public Radio some years ago. Another way out is simply not to think or talk about it. This solution is popular in Europe. Europe is incredibly -ismist, but very few people in Europe perceive the -isms. Lots of them are just certain that the Irish or the English or the Jews or the Turks or the Germans or the "Pakis" or the people on one side of Belgium who speak Flemish or the people on the other side of Belgium who speak French or the Parisians or the French outside Paris or the Gypsies or the Basques or just those people down the street who talk funny are inferior in some way. This is not like, say, New Yorkers making fun of New Jersey or Illini telling you that everyone from Indiana is a lousy driver; it's taken bloodlessly seriously. Occasionally bloodily seriously. It's more like conditions in, say, New York a hundred years ago with the waves of immigrants, but in Europe it's perennial and commonplace. Europe has made great strides since the days of Zyklon-B, but they could really do with the kind of upheaval that the US experienced in the late 1950s and 1960s. Give 'em time; they haven't had more than a decade or two of this big Federal government stuff. They haven't even had the Whisky Rebellion yet, although there's some hope with this "country of origin" stuff.
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950