countries that execute juvenile offenders

[Tony]

Quote:

Originally posted by Darat


In the UK we've had quite a few high profile cases over the last few years of (on appeal) "wrongful" and "unsafe" convictions being overturned or quashed.

And in the UK compensation is paid, even though we now have the ridiculous idea that these wrongfully imprisoned citizens should now pay for their "board" during their imprisonment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2838795.stm

Thanx. But I wasn't talking about the UK.

[Darat]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony



Thanx. But I wasn't talking about the UK.

I know but I wanted to get a dig in at this ridiculous notion of a wrongfully imprisoned citizen having to pay for his or her "board"

[varwoche]

Quote:

Originally posted by Luke T.


There is an inequality of minorities in the general prison population, too. That doesn't necessarily imply the justice system is unfair. It means minorities commit more than their fair share of crime.

It's my (unconfirmed) understanding that the death penalty racial inequity is per capita -- that a significantly higher percentage of convicted black people get the death penalty than do convicted white people.

varwoche

[Ladyhawk]

I've held mixed views on the death penalty. Morally, I have an issue with 'the punishment fits the crime' mentality, only because of the potential of an innocent person being executed. Still, aside from that, I don't really have an issue with it. True, many have suffered the ultimate doom of the DP, but how many more have sat on death row for tens of years awaiting the outcome of appeal after appeal after appeal. So, it would seem like the DP is , comparatively, non-existent.

I would settle for life without a chance for parole as opposed to DP. Assuming that this sentence would be handed out for only the most violent crimes that resulted in death, I would sleep better knowing that those criminals had to spend every day of their life in confinement; no chance of getting out; no chance of having a purposeful existence , growing old and segregated from society, until the day they die. Akin to being buried alive. A far more fit punishment for the taking of a life. Why should such criminals be permitted to tolerate but a few minutes of pain and then achieve quick exit ? I say, let them suffer for the rest of their lives.

DP for juveniles? Well, as someone here said, one does not automatically become enlightened at the magic age of 18. Likewise, it is dangerous to assume that one under the age of 18 is not capable and fully cognizant of their wrong doing.

[Luke T.]

Quote:

Originally posted by varwoche

It's my (unconfirmed) understanding that the death penalty racial inequity is per capita -- that a significantly higher percentage of convicted black people get the death penalty than do convicted white people.

varwoche

They do. I have argued this point on Stormfront more than once.

edited to add: Here is one of many sites out there which back this up. It isn't one I used at Stormfront. That was a while ago, and I used much more factual data.

Quote:

In 1991 the San Jose Mercury News reviewed almost 700,000 California criminal cases between 1981 and 1990 and uncovered statistically significant disparities at several different stages of the criminal justice process. The study found, for example, that 20 percent of white defendants charged with crimes providing for the option of pretrial diversion received that benefit, while only 14 percent of similarly situated blacks and 11 percent of similarly situated Hispanics were placed in such programs. The same study revealed consistent discrepancies in the treatment of white and non-white defendants at the pretrial negotiation stage of the criminal process. During 1989-1990, a white felony defendant with no criminal record stood a 33 percent chance of having the charge reduced to a misdemeanor or infraction, compared to 25 percent for a similarly situated black or Hispanic.

DISCRIMINATION CAN OCCUR at the sentencing stage as well. One of the most thorough studies of sentencing disparities was undertaken by the New York State Division of Criminal Justice Services, which studied felony sentencing outcomes in New York courts between 1990 and 1992. The State concluded that one-third of minorities sentenced to prison would have received a shorter or non-incarcerative sentence if they had been treated like similarly situated white defendants. If probation-eligible blacks had been treated like their white counterparts, more than 8000 fewer black defendants would have received prison in that two-year period. In short, the study found that blacks are sentenced to prison more frequently than whites for the same conduct.

[Tmy]

Race and especially status play a big part in the flaws of our system.


Ask yourself, whos more likely to end up in a jail cell.

-poor guy who wrote a couple thousand dollars worth of bad checks.

OR

-lawyer who gets caught embezzling tens of thousands of dollars from his clients.


The answer? Depends........is the lawyer black?

Quote:

Originally posted by The Don


So isn't it sad that there are societies who think that there are individuals who have commited a crime when they are under the age of 18 are so completely un-rehabilitatable that they need to be killed ?

No, it is called reality.

Quote:

Isn't it strange that the kinds of people who are given this kind of sentance tend not to be those who have gone on protracted killing sprees but those who had the misfortune to commit murder in the wrong place at the wrong time and then fail to get adequate legal representation (I would argue that having good representation would have resulted in life imprisonment).

Oh how misfortunate of them to have commited a murder.....

Quote:

I also think it sad that there are countries whose thirst for retribution (for that is what the death penalty represents, it certainly isn't a deterrent) is so strong that they are willing to kill prisoners who were children when they commited the crime.

It is both for retribution and as a deterrent. It is, afterall, a PUNISHMENT. Who cares how old a person was when they commited a crime, that should not be a factor in their punishment. They are being punished for their crime, not for their age when commiting the crime.

[Cecil]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
I would settle for life without a chance for parole as opposed to DP. Assuming that this sentence would be handed out for only the most violent crimes that resulted in death, I would sleep better knowing that those criminals had to spend every day of their life in confinement; no chance of getting out; no chance of having a purposeful existence , growing old and segregated from society, until the day they die. Akin to being buried alive. A far more fit punishment for the taking of a life.

I agree. I don't see the death penalty as serving any useful purpose over and above life without parole, and I have seen figures which put the cost of an execution at more than life imprisonment, when all the appeals are taken into account. Furthermore, there is always the possibility of rehabilitation. I don't know whether we can say that someone is 100% beyond help, without looking into their mind.

I still don't understand how the US government can be so hypocritical and barbaric as to condemn cold-blooded murder, then turn around and commit it itself.

Quote:

Why should such criminals be permitted to tolerate but a few minutes of pain and then achieve quick exit?

The primary execution method of most states is lethal injection, which involves three separate drugs administered via IV. The first is sodium thiopental, a barbituate used to induce unconsciousness. The second is pancuronium bromide, a muscle relaxant, which causes respiratory failure. Finally, a lethal dose of potassium chloride is given, causing cardiac arrest. It's entirely painless, unless you count the IV.

[varwoche]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
I would settle for life without a chance for parole as opposed to DP.

I've little doubt that when "life" stopped meaning "life" that it was a setback for anti-DP.

varwoche

[hgc]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony


How many cases do you know of the government compensating people who were wrongly imprisoned?

...

OK fine. Forget the compensation. At least a imprisoned person found later to be not guilty can be released, and live. See any value in that? Put him to death and then find out he's not guilty, there's nothing you can do to reverse the injustice.

You can understand that can't you? It's incredibly simple.

[Agammamon]

The "United States" doesn't execute minors, some states in the US do. The US doesn't have a seamless heirarchy of government from local to national as you may see in other countries.
You may quibble and say that this is just a matter of semantics but it is an important distinction during a time when the federal government is ursurping privileges that are supposed to be the the province of the individual states.

[varwoche]

Quote:

July 19: A death sentence imposed for a 1993 murder in Missouri rose to the level of an international issue on Monday as dozens of countries urged the Supreme Court to block the execution of murderers who kill before the age of 18.

Countries from the European Union along with Canada, Mexico and other nations filed friend of the court briefs in a Missouri death penalty case. So did former President Jimmy Carter, former Soviet President Mikhail S. Gorbachev and others, including the American Bar Association, the American Medical Association and religious groups. The briefs condemned execution of juveniles as inhuman.

Their arguments, strongly opposed by the Missouri attorney general, seemed likely to focus worldwide attention on the Supreme Court when the case, Roper v. Simmons, No. 03-633, is argued in October.

In 1988, the Supreme Court struck down the death penalty for offenders 15 and younger. But in 1989, the court upheld capital punishment for offenders 16 and 17. This fall, the court will re-examine that 1989 ruling.

NY Times

[Tony]

Quote:

Originally posted by hgc
OK fine. Forget the compensation. At least a imprisoned person found later to be not guilty can be released, and live. See any value in that?

Yes I do, but nothing can give that guy back his lost years. That is unacceptable. But I agree, it is alot better than the alternative.

[crimresearch]

Originally posted by Luke T.
"There is an inequality of minorities in the general prison population, too. That doesn't necessarily imply the justice system is unfair. It means minorities commit more than their fair share of crime."

Or there may be a correlation between the race of suspects and other factors which influence the likelihood of being convicted...I'm not at all sure that a causal link can be drawn between race and criminality.

[shuize]

Race links to poverty.

Poverty links to crime.

People may argue about whether the punishment fits the crime. But he criminal justice system is not necessarily racist because more minorities are convicted of crimes.

[crimresearch]

Quote:

Originally posted by shuize
Race links to poverty.

Poverty links to crime.

People may argue about whether the punishment fits the crime. But he criminal justice system is not necessarily racist because more minorities are convicted of crimes.

Poverty links to crime? Then how do you account for the Kennedys?

Or did you mean that poverty links to likelihood of arrest and convictions?

I'm no more aware of support for the notion that rich people are more honest than poor people than I am of a race/crime causal link. Or, as I have mentioned, support for the notion that educated people are more honest than uneducated ones.

It seems more the case that criminal behavior cuts across social strata, but that some people are more likely to be incarcerated for their crimes.

[varwoche]

Supreme Court strikes down death penalty for juveniles

Quote:

The 5-4 decision throws out the death sentences of about 70 juvenile murderers and bars states from seeking to execute minors for future crimes.

The executions, the court said, were unconstitutionally cruel.